Observation

CiaranC

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I fail to see how I'm responsible for this "sickness", whatever it may be.

I give up. We're doomed.

As opposed to about 15,000 (max!) Dublin people supporting their 5 local teams each week.

Uhh, thats kinda the point.

MrJoeSoap

CiaranC wrote:

I give up. We're doomed.

Pleased to be of service. What a weird thread.

CiaranC wrote:

Uhh, thats kinda the point.

Kinda my point as well, more people support Southampton because it is a better standard of football (at times anyway )

Collie D

therecklessone wrote:

Its not that difficult to understand. By the time of my first EL game, I had supported Spurs for 9 years. My support had solidified at that stage, if I was going to turn my back on English football then I'd be turning my back on football full stop.

Exactly. I was 18 or 19 when I went to my first EL game. Before I had no interest bar an unexplicable dislike for Shelbourne. I had been supporting Man U since I was a kid as that was the team I was exposed to. If you had asked me when I was eight to name an EL team I couldn't. I wasn't about to turn my back on a club I had suported and loved for over a decde just because I had become interested in the domestic game. Should I apologise or feel inferior for this? I don't think so

Thanx 4 The Fish

So who is the local EL team in Castlebar ? I played for local teams in castlebar and everywhere I have lived and unfortunately the games that I played in often clashed with the games that any local team (if there was any in castlebar) would play in. Saturday evenings and sunday mornings in Cbar and it is a summer league up there too.

I support liverpool, i go to games (mostly home games and have attended most of those last season with a couple this season too, with a few away and european days thrown into the mix) I buy the jerseys and I buy the beer and overly priced sausage rolls (scouse pies are amongst the most disgusting things I have ever tasted) at the ground. Am I not as good a supporter of irish football as those who watch shels ?

I supported Irish football more than most here who go to EL games I would imagine, I have coached and reffed childrens teams for years, I played (at a particularly low level) for years but still made the effort, I have run and been involved in fundraisers for my club and will always throw a few quid in for other teams who are doing the same. I say that you who go to your shels and bohs games are not even nearly the supporters that those who stand out at the local park in the pissings of rain on a friday to watch an underage team that you have coached play their hearts out are, I say that if there has not been a morning when you have woken up, seen frost on the ground and still get up and meet in the middle of nowhere to go to some hole like ballyglass and play footy then you are not REAL supporters. Because it is at the grass roots of the game that this illness that has been touted has to stop. I see any number of people around who are only too happy to talk about the good players that Irish team could pick from the EL and say how good a REAL fan they are because they attend EL games, but they never go out and see what Ireland could have, by supporting their local underage team, a few quid, a couple of hours a week helping out and the next Duffer could come from Castlebar, Or Maynooth or anywhere. Without people there to train and give these young players a push they haven't got a hope and as a result, soccer in Ireland won't.

So get off your high horses EL fans, EL & PL fans alike, get involved, be a participant rather than a spectator. Supporting is not just about wandering round the country (any country) getting drunk and screaming for your team, it is about doing that and still getting up the next morning and making sure that the future of football is secured by imbuing the passion for the game into the next generation of Irish Footy stars, no matter where they are.

Bateman

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

So who is the local EL team in Castlebar ? I played for local teams in castlebar and everywhere I have lived and unfortunately the games that I played in often clashed with the games that any local team (if there was any in castlebar) would play in. Saturday evenings and sunday mornings in Cbar and it is a summer league up there too.

I support liverpool, i go to games (mostly home games and have attended most of those last season with a couple this season too, with a few away and european days thrown into the mix) I buy the jerseys and I buy the beer and overly priced sausage rolls (scouse pies are amongst the most disgusting things I have ever tasted) at the ground. Am I not as good a supporter of irish football as those who watch shels ?

I supported Irish football more than most here who go to EL games I would imagine, I have coached and reffed childrens teams for years, I played (at a particularly low level) for years but still made the effort, I have run and been involved in fundraisers for my club and will always throw a few quid in for other teams who are doing the same. I say that you who go to your shels and bohs games are not even nearly the supporters that those who stand out at the local park in the pissings of rain on a friday to watch an underage team that you have coached play their hearts out are, I say that if there has not been a morning when you have woken up, seen frost on the ground and still get up and meet in the middle of nowhere to go to some hole like ballyglass and play footy then you are not REAL supporters. Because it is at the grass roots of the game that this illness that has been touted has to stop. I see any number of people around who are only too happy to talk about the good players that Irish team could pick from the EL and say how good a REAL fan they are because they attend EL games, but they never go out and see what Ireland could have, by supporting their local underage team, a few quid, a couple of hours a week helping out and the next Duffer could come from Castlebar, Or Maynooth or anywhere. Without people there to train and give these young players a push they haven't got a hope and as a result, soccer in Ireland won't.

So get off your high horses EL fans, EL & PL fans alike, get involved, be a participant rather than a spectator. Supporting is not just about wandering round the country (any country) getting drunk and screaming for your team, it is about doing that and still getting up the next morning and making sure that the future of football is secured by imbuing the passion for the game into the next generation of Irish Footy stars, no matter where they are.

The money you pour into the English game lessens your contribution to Irish football IMO.

Even if eL fans were to accept that people who make a contribution to the junior game are superior to eL fans who don't make a contribution to the junior game, there is still a clear and obvious superiority over those who don't do either.

Thanx 4 The Fish

So where do I go to see my local EL team ? Spending money on a club that is no more local to me than liverpool is (when I was in cbar) is better for Irish football and yet I contribute DIRECTLY to irish football by sponsoring x and y local clubs, putting money into the game where it matters, yeah, I can see your reasoning alright :rolleyes:

You are no more superior than anybody else who stays in bed complaining about their hangover while people who actually want to do something about it are working for the future of the game.

Zebra3

It may seem strange, but Sligo is probably more local than Liverpool. If it was easier to watch England's NT than Ireland's, would you follow the Brits at that level too?

Thanx 4 The Fish

No, I would not support England. And BTW for me it is easier to watch the England NT but I still travel to Ireland away games (cannot get tickets for home games) so I guess that answers your question. As for the BRITS, does that mean the english or the whole of the scots, welsh and english. Do you just lump them all together through ignorance ?

Galway is an hour and a half away too on match day and TBH I do not like Sligo, so you are sayng it is ok to support a team that is not your local team as long as it is not an English team, ah ok, gotcha. :rolleyes:

Bateman

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

So where do I go to see my local EL team ?

Hardly up to me to tell you who to follow or how to live your life, I'm just commenting is all.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

yet I contribute DIRECTLY to irish football by sponsoring x and y local clubs, putting money into the game where it matters, yeah, I can see your reasoning alright :rolleyes:

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but you're not alone in contributing time and money to the thankless task that is fundraising for junior teams.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

You are no more superior than anybody else who stays in bed complaining about their hangover while people who actually want to do something about it are working for the future of the game.

That's a bit of a dim comment TBH, do you want to ban drinking at football now? Most eL games are on Fridays, if people sleep in til 12 on a Saturday and then get involved in the Sunday football scene does that make them inferior to you? Cop on.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Bateman wrote:

Even if eL fans were to accept that people who make a contribution to the junior game are superior to eL fans who don't make a contribution to the junior game, there is still a clear and obvious superiority over those who don't do either.

Hardly up to me to tell you who to follow or how to live your life, I'm just commenting is all.

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but you're not alone in contributing time and money to the thankless task that is fundraising for junior teams.

That's a bit of a dim comment TBH, do you want to ban drinking at football now? Most eL games are on Fridays, if people sleep in til 12 on a Saturday and then get involved in the Sunday football scene does that make them inferior to you? Cop on.

I should cop on ?

I am not the person who is saying that I am a superior supporter because of the nationality of the team I support.

You have told me that you think the money I spend on supporting a team in the english League somehow devalues the contribution I make to the game in Ireland, well how so ? I spend money and time on supporting irish football, how can anything I do outside that edversely effect that ?

I do not care if people are drunk or not and it could easily be whinging at home on a sunday as a saturday. I am making the point that those people who whine about me (I am Irish and support an english team) should realise that there is more ways of supporting Irish soccer than just following the team that they support (be that local or not - which weakens their argument a little) around the country.

Bateman

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I should cop on ?
You have told me that the money I spend on the english League somehow devalues the contribution I make to the game here, well how so ?

Add up all the money you've spent supporting Liverpool in the past 12 months. Imagine you put it all into an Irish club, any Irish club (I wasn't pushing the "local club" line BTW). I'm talking in terms of gate receipts merchandise, away travel. Now let's assume that there are 10,000 people in Ireland who spend the kind of money you do on English football (obviously some less, some more), and they all did the same.

Do you still fail to see how this would benefit football in this country from top to bottom? Granted it's optimistic to think that the gross incompetence and shambolic running of the league would change overnight, but in time you'd be helping to create a much more succesful game in Ireland.

There are enough people who are passionate about the junior game (you're obviously one) who in time would ensure that this sudden explosion of interest in the senior domestic game would filter down in terms of benefits at junior level. Not immediately, but it's inevitable that it would happen eventually.

Bottom line is that we are never going to be an international force as long as our players are picked from the fringes of the most bloated, over-hyped, over-paid, over-rated league in Europe. A strong domestic scene would lift all boats. There cannot be amy doubt about that.

Having said all that, the senior domestic game currently does nothing to attract people who are outside, and until this changes people will continue to engage in the breathtaking double standards of putting no time and effort into Irish football, while all the time expecting to take take take, in terms of success.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Bateman wrote:

Do you still fail to see how this would benefit football in this country from top to bottom?

I never said that I had a problem with how it would benefit Irish football, I can understand that money can make things better as long as it is spent and manage properly. What I am asking is how the money and time that I spent on Junior and underage soccer in Ireland is lessened by me spending other money and time on watching other football.

Zebra3

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

No, I would not support England. And BTW for me it is easier to watch the England NT but I still travel to Ireland away games (cannot get tickets for home games) so I guess that answers your question.

Mightn't be a problem getting tickets for the home games much longer.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

As for the BRITS, does that mean the english or the whole of the scots, welsh and english. Do you just lump them all together through ignorance ?

I lump them together for convenience, not ignorance. Given the lack of resistance to their occupation over the years, the Scots and Welsh deserve it imo.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Galway is an hour and a half away too on match day and TBH I do not like Sligo, so you are sayng it is ok to support a team that is not your local team as long as it is not an English team, ah ok, gotcha. :rolleyes:

Merely pointing out that Sligo is more local than Liverpool that's all. If Ireland played home matches in Sligo instead of Dublin what would you have done then? :eek:

Bateman

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I never said that I had a problem with how it would benefit Irish football, I can understand that money can make things better as long as it is spent and manage properly. What I am asking is how the money and time that I spent on Junior and underage soccer in Ireland is lessened by me spending other money and time on watching other football.

Your "gross actual contribution" to Irish football in terms of your "gross potential contribution" to Irish football is lessened. I really don't know how clearer I can make it.

therecklessone

Zebra3 wrote:

I lump them together for convenience, not ignorance.

then

Zebra3 wrote:

Given the lack of resistance to their occupation over the years, the Scots and Welsh deserve it imo.

Intentional or otherwise, that is ignorance personified.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Bateman wrote:

Your "gross actual contribution" to Irish football in terms of your "gross potential contribution" to Irish football is lessened. I really don't know how clearer I can make it.

Ah but that is not what you originally said. You said that my current contribution was lessened for not supporting an Irish team. When what you meant to say was the above and that I could contribute more, well that is fair comment, when I see the FAI do as much for soccer as I do, I will contemplate upping my net contribution. Thanks for the clarification.

Bateman

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Ah but that is not what you originally said. You said that my current contribution was lessened for not supporting an Irish team. When what you meant to say was the above and that I could contribute more, well that is fair comment, when I see the FAI do as much for soccer as I do, I will contemplate upping my net contribution. Thanks for the clarification.

No problem, apologies if I was going around in circles. I'm glad we've at last clarified the issue, and arrived at a consensus that I'm superior.

SectionF

I don't accept the commonly used argument that people follow English football because it is 'better'. If that were the rationale, people would have moved on to Spanish football long ago (and make like it's oh-so-cool to do so, like those geezers on Newstalk). English football is a pale shadow of football in Spain and Italy.
But I don't think the solution is to expect Irish people raised with mother's milk on English football to give it up tomorrow, and I agree that there's no point adopting a 'hard core' superiority that just alienates the very people you need to convert.
In an ideal world, all Irish football fans would follow Irish football. But that's not going to happen, unless someone has a workable answer to saturation coverage of British football, and the globalisation of the game. Realistically, though, I think it is reasonable to ask people who consider themselves to be 'real' supporters, to also support an Irish team. At this stage, I think having two teams is probably the most natural response of a true soccer fan. I follow United -- Leeds United -- (in small articles in the Sunday newspapers and on the net). I support Bohemian FC, with my backside on a seat in Dalymount. I know which one I get more excited about...
There are lots of people here indignantly reporting how they make epic journeys to see their team. Fair enough, and fair play to you, especially if you are not a Chelsea band-wagoner, but you are in a very small and privileged minority. Most Irish fans follow their English clubs the same way I follow Leeds.
For me, it's the Phoenix Park test. Are you fan enough of your club to watch them if, God forbid, they went into freefall and found themselves in a Sunday league, playing in the 15 acres? After only a few years as a Bohs supporter, I would. I wonder how many Chelsea supporters would follow 'em down that path.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Bateman wrote:

No problem, apologies if I was going around in circles. I'm glad we've at last clarified the issue, and arrived at a consensus that I'm superior.

These EL Types thinking they are better than they are.....

MrJoeSoap

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

These EL Types thinking they are better than they are.....

Not better than we are, better than you are!

Thanx 4 The Fish

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Not better than we are, better than you are!

Nope, what I said was definitely right.

gimmick

Did i hit my head putting down the phone earlier or what?

super_furry

There is definately an air of snobbery when it comes to a lot of eircom League fans. The whole 'you're not a real supporter so your opinion doesn't matter' is widespread among EL fans who take it as a personal mission to look down their noses at the 'barstoolers' as they call them. Take a trip over to the absolute squalid pit of infighting, back-slapping, and malcontents that is foot.ie - the unofficial home of all things EL. They just love to sit back and complain about everything and Premiership fans are more often than not in the firing line.