Is John O'Shea as bad as everone here seems to make out?

Bounty Hunter

now in the wake of cyprus i know defending O'Shea seems like a no-win situation but to me in general people here just like to bemoan him at every chance they get. Afterall he is (despite united using him in the role they planned for Smithy, Djembax2ect) our only real LB in the irish squad. He is a regular in the united side that has had a decent start to the season but now many people think that he isnt good enough to play ahead of O'Brien, a RB in LB or Kevin Kilbane (at least O'Shea is a CM for united at times).

He is a LB who plays well out of position in a good side (united) but plays poorly out of position in a curently terrible side (Ireland...pains me to say). along with Duff, Keane, Given and Dunne i would bet could would be found O'Shea as players who would be key to any big nmae manager who would want to replace Stan.

While Ireland wait for our next emergence of youth we need our players that have and do play at the highest level in our national team. although this is just my opinion.

Xavi6

Yes he is as bad. Simple as. Anyone who gives a guy 10 or 15 yards to dink a ball into the box is not cut out for international football.

Garret

he's mediocre

Huggles

I've a sack of horse ****e in the shed that can move faster!

Lazy lazy footballer.

evad_lhorg

championship player at best. definitely not good enough for Premiership. But Ireland dont really have a lot of options.

Serbian

evad_lhorg wrote:

championship player at best. definitely not good enough for Premiership. But Ireland dont really have a lot of options.

It does beg the question, why has Alex Ferguson shown so much faith in him over the past few years? I know that there have been injuries to both Neville and Heinze at different points, and the departure of Keane left them a bit short in Midfield, but he has started 80 times over the last 3 seasons, not including this one.

Maybe Alex knows something we don't?

kinaldo

He showed a lot of potential early on in his career but since then he's been played out of position far too often and now his confidence looks completely shot to pieces. If he's good enough for Ferguson and Man Utd then he has to be good enough for Ireland.

TheMonster

no - but he should only be used in midfield - we would not have conceded 5 had he been playing there. Granted he gives the ball away a bit but he would have been more effective than either of Kilbane or Ireland.

Nalz

John O Shea has the potential to be an above average player (i.e a 7 or 8 out of ten), but he lacks in confidence and in turn spreads that lacking throughout every team he plays with, especially when he plays CB. IMO he is an average player purely because of this setback, and it is one I dont think he will overcome. at best a rating of 6 out of ten. A squad player or a championship first team player.

iregk

Well before PHB gets in here and tells us all how O'shea is the next Zidane just waiting to happen I think he is muck.

He showed great promise a few seaons back culminating in meggs on Luis Figo in Old Trafford but has since gone drastically down. I think the problem is the utility player tag. He is not a top class central defender nor midfielder. Could be a good full back if only given the chance to play there instead he gets moved around. His passing is some of the worst I've seen where anything over 6 yards is off target. His positional play is non existant and he seems like he needs about 10 mins on the ball to make a decision.

Not a premiership or international player imo.

super_furry

He's a mediocre to poor Premiership player suited to the likes of Charlton, Fulham or Blackburn. How he's still at United is anyone's guess.

Big Nelly

he is a decent player and all the stick he gets is unreal and unjust.

THe whole team was suck and this because the management was terrible. Any team with a cr*p manager will not suceeded.

wheres me jumpa

O'Sheas versatility has kept him at Old Trafford. It has also been his versatility that has ruined him. Theres little or no room for him in the back line at United now, midfield is his only hope and United will have to improve that in January or the summer so imo he is in the twilight of his United career.

zAbbo

He has all the atributes, but is incredibly lazy.

He's very skillful always positioning himself 10 yards from the ball, I've never seen a player move so well away from the action, as if covering an imaginery hole.

Can't believe he plays for Man Utd, and should not be getting a game for Ireland

eirebhoy

For some reason he sticks out among everyone at reserve and underage level no matter what position he plays. I assume it's a confidence thing with him that has him playing so poorly.

LostinBlanch

The fact that he gets a game at United is one that puzzles a lot of United supporters. He is absolutely one of the worst players I have seen play for them in the last 20 years, his first season aside.

He has the skill but not the application. Every time he gets on the ball all he looks to do is offload it and he doesn't care where he passes it, just as long as he does. In United there are a number of good players in the side who spend time having to cover for him.

When he plays for Ireland he is 10 times worse. He should never again wear an Ireland shirt.

aidan24326

He showed alot of promise earlier in his career but has not progressed at all since then.Though there were 10 other culprits on Saturday evening so it would be unfair to single out O'Shea. Ferguson has lost the plot at United anyway, the likes of O'Shea, Darren Fletcher and Ji Sung Park are not good enough to be playing midfield at a major club like Man Utd.

evad_lhorg

ah now ji sung is an excellent player tbh. he will run up and down all day and work harder than the rest. very quick and skillful too.

Villain

To be fair he isn't that bad, I think the biggest problem is Sir Alex has been playing him in different poisitions for seasons now.

I think if he was at at mid table PL team and got his game week in week out in one position he would be a very good player.

He has to have some ability to be playing for Man Utd. Remember Liam Miller couldn't get his game where O'Shea is. I think under the right managment he could do very well for Ireland

PHB

O'Shea plays better for United than he plays for Ireland.
Whether thats to do with the ****e around him for Ireland or just general attitude whos to know.

What I find hilarious is that O'Shea is picked out as the major problem. O'Brien was at fault for every single goal scored against Cyprus. Yet he is ignored.
What about Finnan, ****ing up the tackle that lead to the goal?
Dunne preformed ok, but nothing to shout much about.
Yet one person is signalled out? Gee I wonder what club he plays for :rolleyes:

O'Shea may be **** for Ireland, but he's the best LB we have, 2nd best CB, 3rd best CM, and 3rd best RB.
That's the real problem in Irish football, no good players.

CrowdedHouse

I dunno,I suspect it's a Ferguson/Man United problem.I'm saying this as a Man U supporter,too many promising, good or potentially good players seem to have bit the dust at United in recent years.

O'Shea is one,after a great start disappears into mediocrity.Klberson,Bellion,Djemba Djemba are a few others off the top of my head

Carcharodon

He has the attributes to be a very good player and has performed very well early in his career but hr has been very poor the last couple of years.

The main problem now is a lack of confidence, doesnt believe in his own ability anymore, soccer is all about confidence

aidan24326

CrowdedHouse wrote:

I dunno,I suspect it's a Ferguson/Man United problem.I'm saying this as a Man U supporter,too many promising, good or potentially good players seem to have bit the dust at United in recent years.

O'Shea is one,after a great start disappears into mediocrity.Klberson,Bellion,Djemba Djemba are a few others off the top of my head

Yes but Kleberson and Djemba Djemba were no use to begin with. Djemba-Djemba must be one of Ferguson's worst ever buys. He can't even get in the Villa team these days. Bellion has potential but still not really good enough for United. O'Shea is potentially good enough to play left back for United but is not really a central midfielder. Best thing he could do now is leave United and go to a progressive team (like Villa or Everton) where he could nail down a regular starting place in his best position, whichever position that is.

Xavi6

PHB wrote:

Yet one person is signalled out? Gee I wonder what club he plays for :rolleyes:

He wasn't singled out because he plays for United, he was singled out because he's sh**e. Dunne and Finnan are players who perform well for Ireland. O'Shea doesn't.

scojones

I support United and I'll be the first one to give out about him. He shouldn't be on the United squad and he shouldn't be on the Irish squad either.

Draupnir

The simple answer to the thread title is:

No.

Be realistic lads, John O'Shea has had a number of good games for Man United over the last few years and rarely makes a **** up. Consistent professional.

_blank_

Draupnir wrote:

rarely makes a **** up. Consistent professional.

This simply isn't true.

Most of his passes have been misplaced.

I've watched every United game this season, either on TV or on ppstream, and can safely say that there are at least two occasions per match that I've held my head in my hands as O'Shea yet again gifts posession to the opposition.

I cannot speak for last season as I didn't see every game, but certainly this season his general play has been very bad.

In my eyes he is living off one very good season.

homerjay2005

i honestly cant believe the stick that o shea is getting, he is not our biggest problem and far far from being our worst player.

i have a feeling that if he played for anybody else bar united then he wouldn get half the flack. he is no world beater and does not deserve a starting place at united but to pin point him as the root of all evil is mindboggling.

i mean, come on lads, andy o brien, paddy kenny, kevin kilbane and several more have been getting away with poor poor performances for ireland but get away with it becuse they play for less glamorous clubs. who ever is picking the team, is going to have o shea in there, full stop. steve finnan has had more bad games for ireland than good games and nobody bashes him, likewise robbie keane has done nothing since the sweeden game, i could go on and on.

who would ye rather at left back? ian harte? carr is finished, you cant put kilane in there, like it or not, he is the best that we have and one of the most versatile players in the squad. he seems to be moved around for every game and this cant help him be consistent. having a clueless, incompetant manager on the sideline for ireland doesnt help either

Draupnir

Every player will misplace a couple of passes a match Des, even ZZ played a few loose balls in his time.

O'Shea is prone to a few silly mistakes like that but complete **** ups are quite rare, he plays a decent sideways pass and wins his fair share of headers.

If we had played O'Shea as holding man and Kilbane left full on Saturday, then we would have seen a different performance in my opinion, we were left badly exposed in the middle. O'Shea is no Makelele but he does a decent job in there.

I'm not saying he is World Class but he is a capable holding man, if we had a better option then he isnt in the squad, he is warming his sofa back home in the West Counties somewhere.

Mr. Presentable

He's not as bad - he's just not as good as expected. Problem is, in this country people think if you play for MU you must be the greatest since......And poor old John is no better or worse than the average EPL defender.

Mr. Presentable

PHB wrote:

That's the real problem in Irish football, no good players.

So why does that not include O'Shea?

Look, there's three types of people here - the rabid MU fan, the rabid anti MU fan, and the rabid. Everyones got a ditch so deep they can't see out. As onre of the Irish on Irelands team O'shea should be playing with more pride. That he doesn't, exposes the rest of his game. Some of our best players, McCarthy??, were our least talented.

Chardee MacDennis

harte is a better lb imho, o'shea is being singled out because he consistently plays poorly for ireland and utd. o'brien is not being singled out coz we all know he is sh1te and shouldnt be there but who else?

if harte was fit he would have started.

Rikand

super_furry wrote:

He's a mediocre to poor Premiership player suited to the likes of Charlton, Fulham or Blackburn. How he's still at United is anyone's guess.

Hey come on now! Blackburn are better than that and i hope to God we never resort to having to have this pisk-poor player in our team!

TwoShedsJackson

Serbian wrote:

It does beg the question, why has Alex Ferguson shown so much faith in him over the past few years? I know that there have been injuries to both Neville and Heinze at different points, and the departure of Keane left them a bit short in Midfield.

Understatement of the century right there.

As for O'Shea, he's not exactly terrible but he's certainly not up to international standard. However I hope Ferguson keeps playing him for comedy purposes

yop

There are a number of points to note around this, first off I think as someone said he set a very high target for himself when he over performed on his first season, he has not got any where near that since, maybe his first year was a fluke.
Also as said I think he is suffering badly from lack of confidence, I don't think he has played in the one position for 5 games in a row in the 3 years, anyone who has played will know that it will take a bit of time to adjust to a position.
Look at Henry at Inter, he was not much good on the wing, Wenger moved into striker and look what happened!

When Giggs plays for United he is very good, but when he plays for Wales I don't think you can say he stands outs, the reason been he is surrounded by very mediocre players. The same can be said for Yorke when he played for Trinidad, Sheva for Ukraine.

The whole back 5 have a lot to answer for, O'Brien is just pure brutal nothing else, this effects the other players around you when you know that even before u start that u have a weak link.

I think O'Shea can be a solid player for Ireland, not a star, would I put Harte in there ahead of him, think it is a 50 50.
Yes he was very poor on Saturday but there were 3 or 4 worse.

il gatto

The notion that O'Shea is being dragged down by those around him is ridiculous. He might not often make huge f#ck ups (probably because he's nowhere near the action), but his constant waste of possesion continually has his team under pressure. It doesn't stand out as much as ploughing a striker put of it (a la Dunne), but it's effect is crippling. He picks up the ball in loads of space, and lobs it roughly in the direction of attack. It goes to opposition midfield and hey presto, you're defending again.
I don't support Man U, but I normally like the idea of Irish players playing for them as it means we have some top class players. In O'Sheas case, I can't see why he's even on their books. O'Brien is no better, but then nobody's making excuses or defending him.