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School wants proof my child is a catholic
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register her unborn child
My children's primary school enrolment policy started with the line (I'm paraphrasing) "Children may be registered any time after their birth"...
This was to prevent the "it's-Blue-let's-put-their-name-down-for-XYZ-school-now!" syndrome; or even putting their name down when Daddy gets a twinkle in his eye
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Thaedydal wrote:Excuse me but wanting diverity of schools and being against indoctrination of children in school is not being antireligion, religion I think plays an important part in my life that of my shildren and int eh lives of many people but religious beliefs should be tough by teachers in school like math is.
I never said it was. I was making the point if you are against something you must know something of it. Otherwise how do you know you are against it. Be that religion or the system. Perhaps is a silly example. But is is a bit like not wanting a child to learn Irish. You check out before hand that school could, facilitate that.
In my experience thats how religion is taught here. Like maths its a separate subject. A pretty random and an irregular one at that. Who do you think teaches it in a school if not the teacher?
I wonder are their many people who are anti religion in the school system, sitting on a faith schools BOM. That would be interesting. I would think they'd get involved a non faith school first. Maybe not depending on what was in the area.0 -
I spent the whole day 12 hours reading down this thread and seen about al lot of misconceptions and false accusations about the school that OTK wanted to send his kid to a school in which he did not retract at any stage is run by pedophiles club.
So there was two issues in this thread which started by OTK.
1/. He wants to send his child to the school next door to him (Private Catholic School)
2/.The school requested a piece of paper proving that the kids are catholic.
3/. The school is run by pedophiles
I go on with my experiences of going through Private Catholic School system and my thoughts of the Catholic religion, so you have my position before reading I think of you OTK.
As you know by reading this thread that There is not many Public schools in Ireland as most are private, most do act as public until numbers reach maximum.
There are incidences in both religions, but the rules and regulation on religion is largely ignored nowadays, but not all.
Some one mentioned Gaelscoil was run by republicans. This is untrue, even though republicans tried to hi-jack it for their cause. The local Gaelscoil is any but republican. They teach all types of music, more non-Irish sports, and learning French in addition to Irish and English in primary school alone. I was in the normal Catholics school and barely got through at the time.
If the Private Catholic school is rejecting a catholic (one of there own) so they can let your kid in (non-catholic), would that be unfair to the kid of their own religion? What signals does this send to their faith?
The schools who use the catholic ethos to reject others alone are actually degrading their own ethos as tolerance, respect, love for others is suppose to be practiced.
[B Yes Moslems/ Protestants /Jewish and one voodoo child (I know) have been in Private catholic schools and Yes the priest knew the kids and their parents and was getting on well with them. If a catholic priest and a Moslem imam can talk without fighting and the Moslem kid going to a private catholic school, I am sure for your child sake that you can get on with the school principal.[/B]
He (priest) practices what he preached. I have great respect for him, unlike his predecessor, who was very ill-tolerant and harsh for anyone he disapproves off. The new priest increased numbers going to church (not by much), which was going against the trend nowadays. His predecessor nearly wiped out the church.
Today they are more non-practicing Catholics attending these private Catholics schools, they are just as much as pagans (in the priest eyes), but he does not reject them. Again this is hypocritical if he rejects them on that basis alone. His job as my uncle (A different Priest in US) says “Their duty is to guide the flock not punish them, you cannot punish them and still expect them to listen to you”. Unfortunately this is not practice by all priests and take the harsh (non-Christian/humanity) methods. Generally now the priest does very little in running the school day to day ends but only help in financial and other functions that the school needs. It the school principal, who has the final say on that matter, these days. After all, it is them who deals directly with the kids. Talk to them directly and be nice. It helps not to be degrading when dealing with them. The more they know you the better chances they will accept your child.
This is a huge change when I was going to school, when we saw blacks only on television and was surprise to see them in person. We have grown a long way since then. Another child from a neighboring parish moving to our school was big news then.
As for the church itself, more the bishops, and upwards are guilty of systematically and comprehensively covered the abuses up. It only did more harm to the church and proves that they could not be trusted and hypocrisies. Remember, there are lots of Priests out there who were very against this approach from the every beginning, when they found out and were force to shut up or leave the church. This is another argument for another thread. Thankfully today the abuse is been uncovered and things are moving forward.
There is one comment that in a school that the priest and teacher is covering up an abuse by other teachers. Report any abuse to the Guards. This is a civil matter. Abuse is not religion thing. Abusing children is not acceptable in any society or religion and by ME. You think that the ones who are covering it up know better by now, but by covering it up only implicate them as abusers too by allowing it to happen. It is their choice as human being, not the faith decisions.
Pedophiles are always attracted to any position of POWER. Wherever it involves power covers such as parents/religion/sports/Guards/teachers/bosses etc. And also Yes, power has gotten to individuals within the church and corrupted them and some took hard line, because there was no alternative to them (you need to read up on the history to understand this fully). I call this short term gain (total control) and long term pain (the disaster that they have now), in which the church is now been punished for their misdeeds.
½ and hour a day was very small for a religious school.I was taught to love, tolerate, forgive and respect others (in huge letters on the wall) in religion (catholic) class no matter what they are and this was back in the old days (80s) when the church had total rule in schools. Another moto “Love one another, love your enemy as your friend”. To do that you need to have understanding, why they hate you, even though you do not agree with it. I was brought up as catholic and I still have issues with it because of the decisions that have been made that do not follow the basic teaching that was taught. Never in my history on this planet did a priest ever ask me to degrade or to exclude others. To do so is to go against the Pope/Jesus teaching. I know of priest who have lambasted others publicly, but they have now been publicly humiliated for hypocrisy, and now living a solitary life, not of his own choosing. People are not listening to him now because of his hypocrisy. It was society/individuals who abuse their positions, not the religion who preaches abuse of others. It was not the church who tried to have me abusing others but other people who where not happy/Good self esteem/comfortable with themselves who had hatred/jealousy of others.
As a person who have difficulties with the church, I still believe that The church who did great service to this country over the last few hundred years for our education, when the state failed and kept going when we were immigration in droves going out of the country. The Politicians at the beginning of the state made the easy decision to finance these schools because there was an educational system was already in place. It made their job very easy.
It is always your choice to send your kids to a private (religious) school today that is under severe pressure to accept a large number of kids where space is limited. This issue is only cropping up now because our economy improved a lot and people are immigrating here to what was a predominately a Christian country. A huge baby boom and a lot of people who have lost their faith are now looking to have their children in these private (religious) schools because it is convenient close to them.
The Politicians have since done nothing to resolve this because the parents that is affecting did not ask them to start a new PUBLIC school system in their area when they first had kids. (4 years + pregnancy time) is a long time for any parents & Politicians to get off their asses to do something about it. Some parent have why did you wait so long?
Also remember in the private Catholics schools, the priest must come up with the shortfall of funds by raising it through generous donations. There are always looking for donations for school repair / school supplies / school upkeep and salaries that the state does not fully supplies the funds no matter what the Politicians say. Book keeping for the school is fully audited so that the priest/principal cannot take blame if funds go missing. If people donate to a religion or any organized it does not mean they have a say what to do with it, unless the collector says if for X. Because it when to Y then that when problems arise. Either way OP, It does not mean you can bash them for it, if other people choose to donate to them, it is their choice.
As for the private school itself you have an issue with, the more dishonest you are with them, the more likely they will refuse your child, because if you are dishonest or disruptive or ill-tolerance, it will reflect on the child and when they need to talk to you in the future. The process is more about you than your kid. The reason is that if your child is in trouble, they need to be able to talk to you about it in a reasonable manner. Catholics kids have been expelled from Catholics private schools for this reason. Remember it is not easy dealing with abusive kids, who are having problems at home or elsewhere, and many teachers do not have training with this!
Your Dishonesty, disruptiveness and ill-tolerance will only serves to punish your child by your actions and you will end up driving your child long distances every day. Remember you are trying to send your child to a private school closest to you, Therefore you need to change (not convert religion, that is always your choice) your attitude toward the school. If you believe that the Private Catholic School is still abusing kids, then why on earth would you send your kids to that school? If this is true then it is bad parenting on your part for trying to get your kids in there in the first place. By placing an application at the school doorstep, you are approving it present methods and standards. If your kids is accepted, you have a choice to ask if your kid is kept out of religion class or not force the child to learn the subject (not to have your child feeling left out).
If you do not want to drive long distances, to send you kids to a school, which is acceptable for you, then move closer to it.
At the end of the Day, the Politicians are still using private schools to get them out of trouble. That decision is now only coming to affect you because nobody predicted that the population would lose their faith and that others, of other non/faiths would be immigrated here. The church is taking still taking responsibility for the education of children of all faiths, because the state has not supplied the infracture (buildings and land).
Why should the government take control of a private run institution (schools) which is the churches property, instead setting up a parallel educational system and allowing people to choose? How would you like if the government took your property/business because they did not like your policies. Also just because your child is baptized so you can get it enrolled into a school, does not mean you child is a practicing Christian. As One Jew puts it, “A baptized Jew is still a Jew.”
We are not the US who has both public and private and it is the parents’ decision to use either. A private school (no matter what religion or institute) has a right to accept who they want no matter where they are. It has been proven over and over again that non-catholic faith children have been accepted to these private catholic schools here in Ireland. It is only a problem to those who are ill-tolerant because they do not get what they want or they want a close society. It is not the Private Catholic School who happens to be closes to you that you are not Catholic. It not the Private Catholic School fault that there isn’t an alternative for you. They have picked up the slack when the government failed miserably for not setting up a public state sponsored educational system in the first place. They have served this country well in this regards.
So Know this, The Politicians jobs are up for renewal this summer and they are looking for your VOTE, and do let them know that they will be back looking for your VOTE in five years or less.
You have a problem with a Private school is doing things. So how you would like it if I do not like the way you are raising your child and I got state intervention to change that? You probably hate me.
The best way to deal with this problem is to have a parallel educational system
After I got to the 11 page I saw this after OTK ranting and raging
After all the school was not racist against non-Catholics and how does OP feels about sending the school which is run by let me quote him and did not retractOTK wrote:I told the school today that my wife had made a mistake and that the child was not baptised. I asked if this made any difference and they laughed and said no, that they choose on the basis of living close to the school and first come first served (you have to queue early in the morning on a certain date as my wife did). They told me there were 'plenty' of unbaptised children in the school who didn't take part in first communion.
Well I am afraid I will have to dismount from my high horse as my assumptions based on being asked for a baptismal cert were completely wrong.
You do not need to be a catholic priest to abuse children and to call all priests pedophile is outrageous! It like calling all Jews Nazi’s just because several jew co-operative with the Nazi’s. There are fathers of daughters raping their kids, Can I call you a pedophile because fathers rape their children. You will agree with me and say No I cannot.OTK wrote:Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of the state paying for sectarian discriminatory schools run by a paedophile club, how am i going to get my kid into the school?
Again you accusing all priest are rapists. And not all religions are organizations and many other organizations such as sports do have a similar problem. Wasn’t there swimmer coach who periodly raped young girls in Dublin. Does this mean we should ban all coaches from swimming, wasn’t there acover up there too?OTK wrote:I don't think raping children with gay abandon for decades was warranted and I don't think the fact that this organisation covered it up and received no sanction beyond their negotiated indemnity bond was warranted. But hey that's just me.
So are you going to call all father rapist too, afterall some fathers raped their daughters and their wifes looked on. The mothers covered it up too. Should we ban all parent from raising their kids, because of a few rapist and cover-up artists.
Why on earth are you sending your kids to this private Catholic school if you believe this. Knowingly sending your kids to a “paedophile club” as you stated is making you worst than the “paedophiles club” that cover up paedophiles behavior. This is bad parenting on your part.
And then there is this comment
This was to a response to a question “Is there a Gaelscoil in your area, they tend to be less religious.OTK wrote:Are they not run by republicans? Is this a misconception?
Yes the government gives money to the church to provide a service because they cannot or bother their arses up to now to do it themselves, and that is questionable. This is very unfair of you to blame one party and then get into bed with the true culprits of your problem in the first place.OTK wrote:I think this would be a less divided country if we let our children attend school together regardless of religious affiliation of the parents and to let religious matters be attened to outside of the school gate by the respective churches. I would again urge anyone who feels that it is wrong to allow more than 99% of state funded primary schools in Ireland to be operated with pupil and teacher selection policies of open religious discrimination to write to the minister Mary Hanafin.
I would remind you that your taxes pay the running cost of these schools and that while the church may protest that they own the school buildings, they collected this money from your parents.
I may not agree with the actions of the hierarchy of Catholic church on their practices and behavior, but they provided me with basic morals such as tolerance, forgive, respect and love which is the basic of Jesus teaching, in which many in the church hierarchy failed.
Remember the government and a lot of other people cover-up a lot of abuses too and just as guilty.
At the end of the day it is society who ignored the abuses for so long and now looking for easy scape goats.
And Thaedydal OTK did not retract his “paedophile club” comments, as you stated to BostonB on page 15. I been reading this huge thread and re-looked over it several times. He only stated that the school let in his kid and that the school did not care if his kid is catholic.
I have edit this section of your post. If you have an issue with the moderation in this forum start a thread in
feedback also my personal religion has no place being bandied about in this forum. Thaedydal
The biggest thing I have a problem with OTK is his parenting skills. I will always condemn any parent who knowingly sends their child to a school or anywhere where they believe is run by pedophile/s. where the children becomes in contact with where will be raped. This is gross incompetent on his part.
Just to repeat and summarized my views about my Private Catholic run schools.
The schools run by the most part as a public school until numbers get too large or space for kids are full. Otherwise they do not reject kids of any faith or none, and they do not teach these non-catholic kids about religion unless they have the permission of the parents. The church picks up the responsibility because the State failed miserably from the beginning of the State and still continues since then. I am not happy with the current approach of the state, but instead leaves it in the hands of others to do the work for them. Stating that not all state –Public Schools in other countries has been successful compare to private school.
The main culprit for not having a public school is the State – Otherwise the government, and us the citizens of this country who voted for them.0 -
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BostonB wrote:In my experience thats how religion is taught here. Like maths its a separate subject. A pretty random and an irregular one at that. Who do you think teaches it in a school if not the teacher?
It should be taught by the childs parent's and reilious community to the child.
There is a difference between facts and beliefs and to have beliefs taught as facts to children in school and along side such things as the earth is round and 2+2 =4 is wrong esp when there are children of other denominations and religions in the class.
Schools should teach good morals and about religions which can be done with out the indoctrination.0 -
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