School wants proof my child is a catholic

Ayla

kippy wrote:

Religion and education has been mixed in schools successfully for years and years-it has not harmed society and dare I say it has helped keep it relatively stable.

So you wouldn't think that Ireland's had a problem with religious differences over the last "years and years?" Hmmm...

If our children are divided at the age of 4-5 based on their religion, can't you see that religious tolerance will be harder to teach the older they become? If the Catholics get to go to the "good" schools that are government funded, but the non-Catholics have to go to other schools that have bake sales to pay their teachers, don't you think this would cause religious-based rifts as time goes on?

Ayla

kippy wrote:

I think people have the idea in their heads that religion is taught in these schools all day-this is not the case and while the curriculum does put aside time for religion, all the other subjects are well acounted for.

Also, it's not just pure religion classes that I would be opposed to in a classroom. It's the religious spin that can happen with some other subjects. For instance, Catholics generally don't believe in (and thus wouldn't teach) evolution (science class). They also would have very different teaching methods for sex eduation.

As for the majority of parents not having a problem with sending their child to a religious school, how can you make that statement? Just b/c the kids wind up going there doesn't necessarily mean that's the education the parent would prefer given any other option. I think that's how this whole thread started. Yes, the majority of Irish people are still Christian (of some denomination) but that doesn't necessarily mean they want religion in the classroom.

kippy

So you wouldn't think that Ireland's had a problem with religious differences over the last "years and years?" Hmmm...

If our children are divided at the age of 4-5 based on their religion, can't you see that religious tolerance will be harder to teach the older they become? If the Catholics get to go to the "good" schools that are government funded, but the non-Catholics have to go to other schools that have bake sales to pay their teachers, don't you think this would cause religious-based rifts as time goes on?

If by religious differences you mean the troubles in the North, I think you'll find that they go far beyond religion at this and every stage in the last 100 or so years and are beyond the realms of this thread.

AGAIN
The thing is children are not divided based on religion.
Many non catholic kids go to catholic schools-without problems, granted they have to sit by when the other kids prepare for the sacraments but that is their parents choice.

As mentioned earlier all schools are funded to some extent by various funding areas, government and local so I dont see why non catholic schools should be any less sufficient than others.
Kids are not taught from a young age to not tolerate other religions.

kippy

Also, it's not just pure religion classes that I would be opposed to in a classroom. It's the religious spin that can happen with some other subjects. For instance, Catholics generally don't believe in (and thus wouldn't teach) evolution (science class). They also would have very different teaching methods for sex eduation.

As for the majority of parents not having a problem with sending their child to a religious school, how can you make that statement? Just b/c the kids wind up going there doesn't necessarily mean that's the education the parent would prefer given any other option. I think that's how this whole thread started. Yes, the majority of Irish people are still Christian (of some denomination) but that doesn't necessarily mean they want religion in the classroom.

If you are not happy with the way a subject it taught in the classroom you should not send your kids to that school. Pure and simple. If you weigh up the pros and cons and find that even though you dont like the way something is taught but the school is relatively handy for you then you should be willing to teach the kids these pieces that you dont exactly agree with yourself. Simple.

It doesnt mean that they dont want religion in the classroom either-in fairness I havent hear too many people (outside of this thread) speaking about about religion in the classroom which would lead me to believe that they dont currently have a problem with it.

Ayla

Kippy, maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Let's just use a hypothetical example. We're neighbors and our 5 year old kids are friends. Your kid was baptised Catholic and mine wasn't. We put both of our kids on an enrollment list for nearest school, which is Catholic, and there are no other issues (siblings, etc). As our kids get ready to start school, suddenly I find out that my kid won't be starting that year b/c they weren't baptised. Instead, they have to wait another year or commute across town where my kid will be facing school with a bunch of strangers and won't get to walk home like the rest of his classmates.

What do I tell my hypothetical 5 year old? How do I explain this to him? How will my kid explain to his classmates why he comes from across town when there's another school much closer to home?

The fact is that this happens, as other posters have explained. It's not an issue I want my kids to face, and I don't think it's a positive characteristic of Irish society.

Ayla

kippy wrote:

It doesnt mean that they dont want religion in the classroom either-in fairness I havent hear too many people (outside of this thread) speaking about about religion in the classroom which would lead me to believe that they dont currently have a problem with it.

Either they don't have a problem with it, they don't know about it, or they don't care enough to fight against it. To each their own, but perhaps if more parents knew about it perhaps more would stand up against it.

Nevyn

kippy wrote:

If you want to send your kid to a non catholic school perhaps it is you who should spend the extra money on doing this-seeing as most people are perfectly happy to see religion and education mixing at this level.

Actually most people aren't and this is the wrong way arround to be honest about esp as we live in a republic and do not have a state religion.

kippy wrote:

And again, I will highlight, that religion ONLY comes into the equation when the school is oversubscribed.

No it doesn't, child who are not catholic and those who are not chirstain are singled out by this difference in schools and this should not be happening.
We should not have to make arrangements to take children out of classes
in the middle of the day as it is then that the teachers are doing RE.

kippy wrote:

Oversubscription generally only happens in bigger towns and cities and in such cases there are usually other school choices available.

This is not the case, reallistically walking my children 45min to the nearest educate together school is not an option for me and there is no bus and I don't have a car to be driving the kids to school in.

kippy wrote:

Religion and education has been mixed in schools successfully for years and years-it has not harmed society and dare I say it has helped keep it relatively stable.

Really have a look at there personal issues form and the ammount of ignorance about how people's body work and sex and contraception and the rate of teen pregnacys and tell me that is not harm.

kippy wrote:

I think people have the idea in their heads that religion is taught in these schools all day-this is not the case and while the curriculum does put aside time for religion, all the other subjects are well acounted for.

I know it is not but there is still morning prayer, grace before and after lunch and pray at home time and the fact that christainty is taught as fact to all the children in the school the same as 2 + 2 = 4.

Teachers and schools are set up as people children trust and as a font of knowledge and it can be very hard after this has been set in your childs mind
to explain that not everything teacher says applies to them after you have
set the teacher in authortiy over the child.

Really Children are that impressionible.

Thankfully I have a good relationship with mine and have the time to spend with them explaining but still should I have to spend nights up with my child as they are scared that they are going to hell cos they are not baptised and don't go to mass after things they have heard in school ?

Should I get called to have a chat with the teacher as she was concerned
there was somthing wrong and my child might be upsetting the other children and making things awkward and making the other children ask questions after she was given out to for saying " Godess help me" and then was talking about Kali 'cos she thinks Kali is cool.

If we could have a multi or nondenominational school with in 15 mins walk or on the bus route it would be great but we don't so we have to learn to work with in a biased system and look to see how it can be changed for the better.

Just because the school does not have a chirstian or catholic ethos does not mean that the children will not be taught respect and right from wrong.
That should be the glue that holds out society together not catholism.

Nevyn

kippy wrote:

As mentioned earlier all schools are funded to some extent by various funding areas, government and local so I dont see why non catholic schools should be any less sufficient than others.

All primary schools are underfunded to the same ammount the difference is in the support structures when it comes to setting up schools outside of the religious patron frame work.

kippy wrote:

Kids are not taught from a young age to not tolerate other religions.

They are usually not taught to tolerate them either.
Any thing that is made strange or unsually to them which happens when catholicism is the base default they will see as being 'wrong'.

Ayla wrote:

Either they don't have a problem with it, they don't know about it, or they don't care enough to fight against it. To each their own, but perhaps if more parents knew about it perhaps more would stand up against it.

Pretty much many people like your husband Ayla really don't know what the situation is inreguard to the running, ownership and mangement of schools in this county most people assume they are state own and run and they are not.

squire1

Ayla wrote:

For instance, Catholics generally don't believe in (and thus wouldn't teach) evolution (science class). .

I presume you are joking here and don't actually believe that this is true?

Blush_01

Ayla wrote:

Kippy, maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Let's just use a hypothetical example. We're neighbors and our 5 year old kids are friends. Your kid was baptised Catholic and mine wasn't. We put both of our kids on an enrollment list for nearest school, which is Catholic, and there are no other issues (siblings, etc). As our kids get ready to start school, suddenly I find out that my kid won't be starting that year b/c they weren't baptised. Instead, they have to wait another year or commute across town where my kid will be facing school with a bunch of strangers and won't get to walk home like the rest of his classmates.

What do I tell my hypothetical 5 year old? How do I explain this to him? How will my kid explain to his classmates why he comes from across town when there's another school much closer to home?

The fact is that this happens, as other posters have explained. It's not an issue I want my kids to face, and I don't think it's a positive characteristic of Irish society.

Firstly, I'd be very worried if you were letting a 5 year old - hypothetical or not - walk home from school. Secondly, I went to a very small local national school - at most there were 32 students in the SCHOOL in the 8 years I attended there. We had children in our class from outside the parish catchment area - namely because their parish primary school was full of what I'll nicely term brats. The kids never got to walk home with us, but they still socialised with us, visited our homes, played with us at break time. They also had friends from their own area who they attended football practice/dancing class/music/swimming with. So they didn't walk home together - but they had a much larger circle of friends than we did, and by degrees, we got to meet more people through them. School is not a 24 hour thing. It lasts from 9 to 3, approximately. The day - regardless of your age - doesn't end at 3pm.

It's a year or two ago now, but there was a tv show on about trying to get children into good primary schools in England. People were moving 20 miles to be in the catchment area, buying barely habitable houses at prices they couldn't afford in order to get into a particular school. I know the house prices in general are ridiculous, but why push for the same situation here?

Also - I went to both an RC primary and secondary school. Both of my parents are religious. I couldn't avoid religion, but I definitely had a mind of my own and could decide what I believed was true or not - much to my parents disappointment - despite years of "programming". Give your children a bit of credit. They're not stupid. They can, and will make their own minds up about their religious beliefs. If anything, not exposing them to any religion is as bad as forcing catholicism down their throat. Teaching about all religions, including atheism, is far more important for tolerance than blanket condemnation, isn't it?

Ayla, I went to an RC school and there were annual parish collections - not merely family, but the entire parish, fundraisers etc. A school that has religious patronage doesn't necessarily have buckets of cash to throw around. My mother was the treasurer of the BOM for years (Still is, even though my sister is now in 6th year in secondary school) so I can guarantee it wasn't loaded.

Lastly, OP, were you abused as a child? (Sorry if I'm being a bit blunt, I don't mean to cause offence.) I know plenty of people from many different backgrounds who were alter boys/girls, went to religious schools, etc. Only one person I know of has ever been abused, and that was by someone very far from the religious orders. I think that the disgraces of the past, as much as they taint our vision, shouldn't blacken it completely. Tunnel vision doesn't help anything. And if you resent the school you are choosing to send your child to, do you not think that they'll sense that, giving them a negative attitude towards it and education afterwards? Besides, if you don't want to "ferry the kid elsewhere" why not home-educate?

fly_agaric

squire1 wrote:

I presume you are joking here and don't actually believe that this is true.

Yes. The Catholic church is very ok with modern science (the basic theories and ideas anyway even if they don't like some of its technological offspring like birth control, mucking around with embryos and clones etc) so the US issue of some christians trying to distort the teaching of science in schools because of what they believe does not really transfer here.

kippy

I dunno,
this post has been an interesting read.
However I may have been swayed by the OPs initial comments unfairly condemning the catholic church because his own child cannot get into the nearest school to him.

This perhaps has annoyed me the most. Without the church as others have pointed out, there may have been no education system whatsoever and this country would be in a far bigger mess.

Now though, with the country changing, it is time to revisit the entry process and indeed overhaul the whole system to keep other religions/faiths/believes on an even foothold. I can see how it is hard for children of different religions to go to a school where another religion is taught.
So I will agree that it is time to revisit and review the system, however I still stand solid at not having too much sympathy with the OP for his comments on the catholic church and indeed gaelscoils.

Edit: Thaedydal, you have a very balanced and knowledgeable view, your posts have been interesting reading and support all parties throughout.

Kippy

Nevyn

Blush_01 wrote:

Firstly, I'd be very worried if you were letting a 5 year old - hypothetical or not - walk home from school.

She never said walk home unaccompanied, but there come a time for that as part of a child's independance.

Blush_01 wrote:

Teaching about all religions, including atheism, is far more important for tolerance than blanket condemnation, isn't it?

Yes but this is not done in the vast majority of primary schools.

Blush_01 wrote:

Ayla, I went to an RC school and there were annual parish collections - not merely family, but the entire parish, fundraisers etc. A school that has religious patronage doesn't necessarily have buckets of cash to throw around. My mother was the treasurer of the BOM for years (Still is, even though my sister is now in 6th year in secondary school) so I can guarantee it wasn't loaded.

As I have said all primary schools are equally underfunded.

Blush_01 wrote:

Besides, if you don't want to "ferry the kid elsewhere" why not home-educate?

Do you really think this is a viaible option in modren Ireland where both parents have some sort of a job ?
Home schooling as part of a network of parents is doible.
Home schooling in isolation is not good for parents or for the children who have to learn to be socailsed.

We should not have to be ferrying the children for a 30 min drive to get them to school, schooling should be local and community based but just not parish based.


Ah thanks I think Kippy, I believe in being informed as much as I can be about things that effect myself and my family and until people are aware and informed and willing to push for change things won't get tackled

dubgirl

OTK wrote:

Yes, I'm a terrible person. Thing is I've never raped a child or belonged to an organisation that put its own self-preservation ahead of the protection of children, so I'm not going to feel that bad.

I find this post extremely offensive and would suggest it removed. I speak as a catholic and a member of this organisation that you are so proud not to be involved in. You simply can't generalise in this way.

Nevyn

dubgirl I suggest you learn to use the reportpost button if you have an issue with a post.

While the layity of the catholic church did not abuse or rape or take part in cover ups it is a matter of public and legal record that the church hierachy did.

FranknFurter

Imho, education in schools in this country has moved away from whats best for the child and into "the best rated school" or religious preference or whatever.

These days the majority of parents (imo) have forgotten somthing vital in their childs education. Socialisation.

When a child has to go to a school miles away from where they live, its very likely that there will be no schoolmates living "on their road" for playing with after school, interacting with during school and helping with after school activities.

In primary school I had loads of friends who lived on the same area I did and that fact made LIFE a whole lot easier and more fun.
You would call around to your mates house after homewark, joke around, be happy and discuss what teacher you "hated" OR likes and who was annoying ya etc and get it all out of your system and be ready for the next day.

In secondary school I travelled from one side of the city to another every morning at 6am to be there for 9am, and as a result, until I was of an age to travel on my own, had no social interaction with schoolfriends after 4pm.

Looking back I can see it was the cause of a lot of problems and heartache I had in my teens, I had no peer-group and faced a lot of stuff alone that I shouldnt have had to.

To me, the main decider should be on assessing whats best for the child as opposed to what religion they are.
Its ridiculous in 2006 to still be under the influence of such intolerance and closed-mindedness to get an education.
How the hell are we supposed to teach tolerance if from 9am-4pm they are under a religious "regime".

B

MiniMetro

Kernel32 wrote:

It's mind boggling in this day and age that religion plays such a role. I would be embarrassed to tell anyone outside of Ireland about it.

Why would you be so embarassed to tell anyone outside Ireland about it? Would they be shocked because that idea would be so alien to them? Oh wait, hang on, Religion plays a role where you live too, well that's an absolute disgrace, at least you would never consider sending your child to such a monstorous institution......on the contrary that's exactly what you are doing.

Kernel32 wrote:

We found the most convenient at the best price and well run was a local Lutheran preschool. After struggling with it for a while we sent him there and he loves it. He gets exposed to some religious imagery and a pastor reads them a story once a month. I am willing to live with that if he has fun, learns a little and gets well taken care of.

You should start demonstrating some of the tolerance shown by your son.

Ayla

kippy wrote:

Now though, with the country changing, it is time to revisit the entry process and indeed overhaul the whole system to keep other religions/faiths/believes on an even foothold. I can see how it is hard for children of different religions to go to a school where another religion is taught.
So I will agree that it is time to revisit and review the system, however I still stand solid at not having too much sympathy with the OP for his comments on the catholic church and indeed gaelscoils.

Edit: Thaedydal, you have a very balanced and knowledgeable view, your posts have been interesting reading and support all parties throughout.

Ah, Kippy, so we can agree afterall

Well said, all of it

Ayla

MiniMetro wrote:

Why would you be so embarassed to tell anyone outside Ireland about it? Would they be shocked because that idea would be so alien to them? Oh wait, hang on, Religion plays a role where you live too, well that's an absolute disgrace, at least you would never consider sending your child to such a monstorous institution......on the contrary that's exactly what you are doing.

Mini - I'm assuming you've made these statements based on the fact that Kernal's location is in the USA. But as an American, I'm not sure what you're saying?

Education in the States is completely non-denominational (to the extent that we can't say "under God" in our daily Pledge of Allegiance). While that may be a bit extreme, it also places value in the fact that Americans practice a variety of religions and no one should be above the others.

So what exactly were you getting at by your rather sarcastic comments?

Nevyn

S/He'll be getting a time out if the caustic comments continue.

Kernel32

MiniMetro wrote:

Why would you be so embarassed to tell anyone outside Ireland about it? Would they be shocked because that idea would be so alien to them? Oh wait, hang on, Religion plays a role where you live too, well that's an absolute disgrace, at least you would never consider sending your child to such a monstorous institution......on the contrary that's exactly what you are doing.



You should start demonstrating some of the tolerance shown by your son.

If you actually took the time to read my post you would see I made no comment about religious schools being bad or "monstorous institution". I went to a regular RC primary and received a good education and I would send my son to one if the situation offered me no viable alternatives. But if his enrollment is based on my decision to baptise him then that's where compromise moves into coercion and based on other responses I see here some parents have been forced to baptise their children so they can go to school. Think about that for a minute. Parents forced to have a religious ceremony performed on their child in order for them to attend a state sponsored school.

My problem is with a publicly funded service using religion as it's primary screening for determining who should avail of the service. Can you name me one other service in Ireland that uses religion the same way? Maybe the health care system should start using a similar policy. I wonder if you send your baptismal cert with your driving test form will you get moved to the higher priority good catholic list? If any other service used a similar policy there would be an outcry from the population. There is absolutely nothing wrong with religion. There is everything wrong with discriminating based on religion.

kippy

If you actually took the time to read my post you would see I made no comment about religious schools being bad or "monstorous institution". I went to a regular RC primary and received a good education and I would send my son to one if the situation offered me no viable alternatives. But if his enrollment is based on my decision to baptise him then that's where compromise moves into coercion and based on other responses I see here some parents have been forced to baptise their children so they can go to school. Think about that for a minute. Parents forced to have a religious ceremony performed on their child in order for them to attend a state sponsored school.

My problem is with a publicly funded service using religion as it's primary screening for determining who should avail of the service. Can you name me one other service in Ireland that uses religion the same way? Maybe the health care system should start using a similar policy. I wonder if you send your baptismal cert with your driving test form will you get moved to the higher priority good catholic list? If any other service used a similar policy there would be an outcry from the population. There is absolutely nothing wrong with religion. There is everything wrong with discriminating based on religion.

I think you should reread a few posts again.
It is not the primary deciding factor-it is a factor when the school is oversubscribed. It does not stop non catholics going to school.
The catholic church do not have the same say in the running of the driving test or healthcare so your arguments there are invalid. As mentioned the catholic church own many of these schools and have a priest on the BOM-they have a right to use this process to select students when they have limited places. Some parents have been forced to buy new houses and register their kids, sometimes before they are even born.
Again, there is no one forcing you to use a catholic school and I cannot see how there is any form or coersion going on if this is the case.
While I do not think the current situation is ideal-when people are choosing a school for their child they would perhaps be better served reading about the school and its policies so as not to end up in a situation that the OP has ended up in.

Darragh29

Why would you want your child educated in a environment which you have described below as:

OTK wrote:

sectarian discriminatory schools run by a paedophile club

If you can't find a suitable non-dominational facility for your child to be educated in, your issue should be with the government. Did you visit your local TD and make your concerns known about the lack of educational facilities available for children in your area??? Getting your child baptised just so he or she can get into a particular school is just using a religious institution purely for the purposes of getting your child educated. I've no problem with you not being religious or your child not being religious but if this decision has consequences relating to the education of your child, perhaps you should face up to them instead of trying to play the system and trying to get a child baptised just to get him or her into a particular school...

dubgirl

Thaedydal wrote:

dubgirl I suggest you learn to use the reportpost button if you have an issue with a post.

While the layity of the catholic church did not abuse or rape or take part in cover ups it is a matter of public and legal record that the church hierachy did.

Consider it done, although I feel you have made your feelings known on the subject that you do not feel this is offensive for the poster to make mass generalisations as regards to this organisation. I send my children to a catholic school does this mean that I am neglectful as I am sending them into the arms of an organisation of rapists! Which to me is what I found offensive. The poster said that yes he is a terrible person but he doesn't want his children in this organisation as he has never raped a child -

Darragh29

Ayla wrote:

What do I tell my hypothetical 5 year old? How do I explain this to him? How will my kid explain to his classmates why he comes from across town when there's another school much closer to home?

The fact is that this happens, as other posters have explained. It's not an issue I want my kids to face, and I don't think it's a positive characteristic of Irish society.

You could just tell your child that you made a decision to not have him baptised after he was born, you are not religious person and decided to bring him up without a religious aspect to his life. Then you could explain that in life, decisions have consequences and your decision to not involve religion in his upbringing and life to date has clear consequences now with regard to his education.

Nevyn

kippy wrote:

Again, there is no one forcing you to use a catholic school and I cannot see how there is any form or coersion going on if this is the case.

This is easy to say but when there are no other real options then it is coersion.

kippy wrote:

While I do not think the current situation is ideal-when people are choosing a school for their child they would perhaps be better served reading about the school and its policies so as not to end up in a situation that the OP has ended up in.

Most parents are not aware of how things work until they are faced with the situations and then panic and give in as there aren't other workible options.

dubgirl I don't think it is a bad thing considering what has happened to children in the curches care the and changes in our socitey to question the role that both churches play in the education system and in schools.

Darragh29 wrote:

You could just tell your child that you made a decision to not have him baptised after he was born, you are not religious person and decided to bring him up without a religious aspect to his life.

That is fine and my children were told that but they have a psiritual aspect to thier life and that they can choose a religion for themselves when they grow up but they should not be denied a good education in thier locality because of it.

Darragh29 wrote:

Then you could explain that in life, decisions have consequences and your decision to not involve religion in his upbringing and life to date has clear consequences now with regard to his education.

It should not have those consequences.
The sooner the UN charter of rights of children gets adopted and children are given rights under out contistution the better.

Darragh29

Thaedydal wrote:

This is easy to say but when there are no other real options then it is coersion.

Kind of seriously warped logic. Something doesn't become "coercive" because of options of lack of options that remain completely outside of the situation itself. Something is either coercive or not coercive in its own right. In the above situation there is no coersion, there is a decision and there is a consequence of that decision. There is also a failure. The government has failed to provide the OP's child with access to education that is best suited to him or her, she should campaign for change as she is surely not the only person in this situation and the state has apparently failed in its obligation to provide education to her child.

I suggest that the OP should have it out with her TD and the Minister for Education, throwing mud on here, calling people paedophiles and slagging off the church that she elected to have nothing to do with, will not solve her problem.

Darragh29

Thaedydal wrote:

This is easy to say but when there are no other real options then it is coersion.

No its not.

Thaedydal wrote:

It should not have those consequences.
The sooner the UN charter of rights of children gets adopted and children are given rights under out contistution the better.

I totally agree with you, but the point I'm making is that the OP is looking in completely the wrong direction for relief. She should see the situation for what it is, a lack of educational facilities for non-dominational children/families. This is a failure on the part of the state to provide these facilities, not a failure on the part of the church to accommodate her as someone who has made a decision that she wants nothing to do with the church! By the way, children already have substantial rights under our own constitution:

Article 42.2.3 states:

The State shall, however, as guardian of the common good, require in view of actual conditions that the children receive a certain minimum education, moral, intellectual and social.

Nevyn

Darragh29 wrote:

. The government has failed to provide the OP's child with access to education that is best suited to him or her, she should campaign for change as she is surely not the only person in this situation and the state has apparently failed in its obligation to provide education to her child.

I suggest that the OP should have it out with her TD and the Minister for Education

I agree and I have already pointed the OP in the direction of the educate together letters for this.

http://www.educatetogether.ie/4_help_us_with_our_work/lobbying.html

Letter to the Minister for Education & Science

Each year many Educate Together schools are unable to offer all families on their waiting list a place in their school. For many this is a huge disappointment and often means that families are compelled to send children to denominational schools against their wishes.

This year, 2006, we want to ensure that the Minister for Education & Science, is made aware of the difficulties which many families around the country face, in accessing a school of their choice. The most effective way for this to happen is for families to directly let the Minister know of their wish to send their child to an Educate Together school, and to also ensure that their local public representatives are aware of their desire to educate their children in this environment.

We are also asking all parents around the country who contact us in an area where no ET school exists, to also send this letter to Minister Hanafin. We believe that if we can get a large number of these letters to the Minister over the next month, it will reinforce our key lobbying message for additional support for the sector and provide proof of demand.

Thank you for your support. It is very apparent to us that the best results are achieved through a clear demonstration of demand for Educate Together schools directly from parents, and cohesive co-ordinated action by the sector.

http://www.educatetogether.ie/4_help_us_with_our_work/letter_to_minister.html

Letter to the Minister (updated 2006 version)

To: Ms. Mary Hanafin, T.D.
Minister for Education and Science
Department of Education and Science
Marlborough Street
Dublin 1

Date: .....................

Area: ……………………….

Dear Minister,

I am a parent of a child named ……………………………………… whose date of birth is ………………………

It is my wish that this child be educated in the inclusive ethos of an Educate Together school.

I have become aware that there are no places available in Educate Together schools within a reasonable distance from my home, due to excessive demand for multi denominational school places in this area.

Please will you indicate what steps you intend to take immediately to ensure that my rights and those of my child under the Constitution (Article 42, Section 3, paragraph 1) with regard to education are protected. Please will you also indicate to me how I can meet my legal obligations under the Education Welfare Act (2000) in this situation?

I look forward to receiving a response from you within the next 15 working days.

Yours sincerely,

…………………………..

My address is:

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I really do encourage everyone who has said they are unhappy with how things are to take the time to put thier pens where there mouths are and send a copy of this letter.

Nevyn

Darragh29 wrote:

By the way, children already have substantial rights under our own constitution:

Article 42.2.3 states:

The State shall, however, as guardian of the common good, require in view of actual conditions that the children receive a certain minimum education, moral, intellectual and social.

Which mean that if parents are having to drive an hour or more to get thier children to school as there is no place for them in a school in thier locality, even if thier sibling is in alocal school or the case in Julianstown where junior infants are having to go to school from 2pm to 6pm then the state is still providing a minimum education.