School wants proof my child is a catholic

jimmycrackcorm

OTK wrote:

I told the school today that my wife had made a mistake and that the child was not baptised. I asked if this made any difference and they laughed and said no, that they choose on the basis of living close to the school and first come first served (you have to queue early in the morning on a certain date as my wife did). They told me there were 'plenty' of unbaptised children in the school who didn't take part in first communion.

Well I am afraid I will have to dismount from my high horse as my assumptions based on being asked for a baptismal cert were completely wrong.

Time to start a new thread giving out about protestant schools now methinks!

parsi

11 pages of diatribes for nothing....

Nevyn

I disagree it has raised the issues on how primary school in this country are run, infomred a lot pf people of what the system and and allowed dicussion on are changes needed.

Even as the child has been accepted there is the issue of religious instruction with in the school and the confilict it can cause as the parents teach the child differently to what the school teaches.

TempestSabre

Seems to be me people don't do their home work before going off the deep end.

parsi

What about asking the OP to remove his comments about a "pedophile club" - after all he has now succeeded in gaining entry to the school so I would expect that he no longer has that view...

kippy

While not agreeing with a lot of what the OP's views and comments, I am glad he has found a suitable resolution to the issue and that his child will be able to go to a nearby school.

Parents however should be aware of the ins and outs of such things though and I am glad that this thread has brought these issues up for all parents as all parents need to know the imact their decisions may have on the lives of their kids.

Kippy

OTK

I learnt a lot about how primary schools are run in Ireland over the last few weeks. I am still opposed to church dominance of the management of education in Ireland. I accept that some people feel that despite a long history of systematic child rape and sheltering of paedophiles that the church is still the right organisation to have control of school boards. 1,000 child rapes in Dublin may not be enough to make people feel that it may be time for them to disengage. I am not sure what number would tip the balance. 5,000? 10,000? I don't know.

Conar

OTK wrote:

I learnt a lot about how primary schools are run in Ireland over the last few weeks. I am still opposed to church dominance of the management of education in Ireland. I accept that some people feel that despite a long history of systematic child rape and sheltering of paedophiles that the church is still the right organisation to have control of school boards. 1,000 child rapes in Dublin may not be enough to make people feel that it may be time for them to disengage. I am not sure what number would tip the balance. 5,000? 10,000? I don't know.

I reckon that if any other organisation had such a poor record then they wouldn't be allowed near schools.

TempestSabre

OTK wrote:

I learnt a lot about how primary schools are run in Ireland over the last few weeks. I am still opposed to church dominance of the management of education in Ireland. I accept that some people feel that despite a long history of systematic child rape and sheltering of paedophiles that the church is still the right organisation to have control of school boards. 1,000 child rapes in Dublin may not be enough to make people feel that it may be time for them to disengage. I am not sure what number would tip the balance. 5,000? 10,000? I don't know.

Yet you'll still send your kid to one of these schools

Where do you get your figures from?

TempestSabre

Conar wrote:

I reckon that if any other organisation had such a poor record then they wouldn't be allowed near schools.

I'm curious. What are the comparable organizations, in other countries and are their records as bad?

Conar

TempestSabre wrote:

I'm curious. What are the comparable organizations, in other countries and are their records as bad?

Valid point. I would like to know that too.
Maybe its just something that went on in these kinds of institutes regardless of who ran them.
It still does not excuse the church covering up though, I think thats where most peoples problems lie.

deisemum

There is still a lot of child abuse going on in primary schools in this country.
What's sickening about it is that it's still being covered up and when parents want to take things further they are threatened in some of the worst possible ways. It is more widespread than a lot of parents realise.

This post has already stated the high percentage of schools that are under the different religious control. Most Chairpersons on Board of Managements are normally the local parish priest. Parents reps haven't much of a voice on them as it's stacked against them. Usually the members of the outer community are invited onto the BOM by the principal and/or parish priest. In my area it's usually principals from other schools. They will do everything possible to cover up any allegation.

The sooner the better religion is taken out of the classroom.

dubgirl

deisemum wrote:

There is still a lot of child abuse going on in primary schools in this country.

The sooner the better religion is taken out of the classroom.

Why? Do you think that our children should be denied their religion and all knowledge of it. You claim there is a lot of child abuse going on in our schools?? By whom? where? If I for one thought my child was at a higher risk of being abused at school because religion is one of the subjects, she wouldn't be going thats for certain!!

I think there is a lot of scaremongering going on on this post.

Conar

deisemum wrote:

There is still a lot of child abuse going on in primary schools in this country.
What's sickening about it is that it's still being covered up and when parents want to take things further they are threatened in some of the worst possible ways. It is more widespread than a lot of parents realise.

Sounds a bit wierd to me. Are you talking sexual assault style abuse?
If so why would you need to go through the school?

Conar

dubgirl wrote:

Why? Do you think that our children should be denied their religion and all knowledge of it.

They could go to Sunday school or something similar.

dubgirl

Conar wrote:

They could go to Sunday school or something similar.

Think you might be missing my point Conar - why should they? Religion is in my opinion a very important part of school. They go to school 5 days a week who wants to add another one on??

Just because religion is taught in school does not give people the right to say this causes abuse in our schools??

Madness:eek:

Moonbeam

dubgirl wrote:

Why? Do you think that our children should be denied their religion and all knowledge of it.

One childs religion isn't always anothers and in alot fo cases this religion is not catholic.

Conar

dubgirl wrote:

Think you might be missing my point Conar - why should they? Religion is in my opinion a very important part of school. They go to school 5 days a week who wants to add another one on??

I think you're missing my point. Why should YOUR religion be forced upon my children. That is what I meant. If it is as important as you make out then surely your kids could sacrifice an hour or 2 on the sabath day?

dubgirl wrote:

Just because religion is taught in school does not give people the right to say this causes abuse in our schools??

Madness:eek:

I don't think that this is the general view held by people here. The point that is being raised a lot of the time is that the church has been responsible for the covering up of child abuse. This has caused a lot of people to distrust the church and yet they hold on to the positions of trust on the various BOM's.

Personally I don't think my children are in danger of being sexually abused in school, but it does genuinely upset me that people feel they have the right to fill their heads with fairytales and religious nonsense (my opinion).
And before you say "why don't you send them to a non-religious school", it is simply not possible where I live.

deisemum

It is the control that the church has on schools that I really object to. The parish priests are covering up so much of what's happening in schools.

I think there are a lot of parents who prefer the lazier option of having religion taught in schools rather than going to the bother of bringing children to something like sunday school.

Just look at first communions and confirmations. There've been numerous priests complaining in the media that it's practically the norm to only see children going to mass (if even then) in the run up to their first communion and then not go again until their confirmation and then very rare occasions after that. Another of their complaints is that people will often see it as a big day out and forget what the day is actually about.

I'm very involved in dealing with an abuse allegation at the moment so for legal reasons I'm not going to state any specifics or hints here just to say I know what I'm talking about. Gardai, HSE staff and Dept of Ed involved

dubgirl

Moonbeam wrote:

One childs religion isn't always anothers and in alot fo cases this religion is not catholic.

Yes indeed however the majority in catholic schools are, the point is that having religious studies in schools does not cause abuse!

dubgirl

Conar - there are children that are not catholic in my daughters school. No-one is Forcing a religion on your children except maybe yourself by sending them there in the first place. Non-catholic children have the option to sit and do arts and crafts for example if they do not want to listen.

However I think you would find that children do enjoy learning about other religions. As for fairy tales and nonsense you are correct in that this is YOUR opinion. But as the parent of a catholic child going to a catholic school why should I agree that religion should be taken out of school to accommodate the parents of children that object to them even hearing about that religion?

If your views are that anti-catholic I'm sure you could find somewhere to get them to school without us clod hopping catholics spouting all our nonsense at them. Or maybe you could home-school and not have your children even mixing with the catholics??

I was replying to Deisemums' post that religion be taken out of schools due to abuse allegations lets not forget. No need to go back over the whole thread on the rights and wrongs of our catholic schools surely :rolleyes:

kippy

I think there are a lot of parents who prefer the lazier option of having religion taught in schools rather than going to the bother of bringing children to something like sunday school.

I have great issue with this comment. Mainly because laziness is partly the reason that the OP wanted his kid in this school in the first place-if he really was so bothered about the churches influence on the school he would not want his kid going there but the school was close.

FACT- Predominatley catholic country-practicing or not. If you in the minority want to force the existing schools to change then you are as bad as the church-there are other options for eduction popping up. Religion is not forced on everyone in school, kids can be removed from religious teachings by their parents and will instead do something else to fill in the time. Personally I am glad religion is taught in schools, it give the child a chance to make up their own mind. A lot of catholic parents as mentioned already arent practising at all-what difference does it make?
As I said before parents should be aware that the decisions they make about religion or lack thereof will have an impact on many aspects of their childs future.
Kippy

Conar

dubgirl wrote:

Conar - there are children that are not catholic in my daughters school. No-one is Forcing a religion on your children except maybe yourself by sending them there in the first place. Non-catholic children have the option to sit and do arts and crafts for example if they do not want to listen.

They say prayers in the yard before they even go to class. Would you suggest that I bring them in late every day?
They are given the option of doing arts and crafts but how can you explain to a child that the teacher is always right, EXCEPT when they start talking religion.....then you should ignore everything they say as it is wrong.

If they were being taught about religionS then I wopuld not have a problem as it would be objective.

dubgirl wrote:

However I think you would find that children do enjoy learning about other religions. As for fairy tales and nonsense you are correct in that this is YOUR opinion. But as the parent of a catholic child going to a catholic school why should I agree that religion should be taken out of school to accommodate the parents of children that object to them even hearing about that religion?

If your views are that anti-catholic I'm sure you could find somewhere to get them to school without us clod hopping catholics spouting all our nonsense at them. Or maybe you could home-school and not have your children even mixing with the catholics??

I am not anti-Catholic. I am anti-Catholicismbeingtaughtinschool
Most people I know are catholic I do not try to force my atheist views on them, although I would argue back if they tried to force their catholic views on me.

dubgirl wrote:

No need to go back over the whole thread on the rights and wrongs of our catholic schools surely :rolleyes:

True! It is good that the argument is put out there from time to time though just to remind us all of the views off others.

OTK

TempestSabre wrote:

Where do you get your figures from?

Try asking Google for "1000 child rapes Dublin"

http://www.google.ie/search?q=1000+child+rapes+dublin

No marks for guessing whoduunit.

It couldn't have happened if we hadn't all been so supine.

TempestSabre

Sorry I assumed you knew where the figure you're using come from. Happened? Is it not still happening?... Its only a guess but I guess its not just in the RC church either.

...Tighearnaigh suggested that the problem in Ireland is one of under reporting rather than over reporting (child abuse reports for 4.5% of the U.S. child population as compared to 0.5% in Ireland)...

eth0_

TempestSabre wrote:

Yet you'll still send your kid to one of these schools

Where do you get your figures from?

Spoken by a non-parent, i'm guessing. Have you any idea how hard it is to get your kids into any sort of decent school, never mind if they're a catholic school or not!

Maybe she can't afford to send her child to a fee paying private school? And there's not many non-denominational schools around.

TempestSabre

eth0_ wrote:

Spoken by a non-parent, i'm guessing. Have you any idea how hard it is to get your kids into any sort of decent school, never mind if they're a catholic school or not!

Maybe she can't afford to send her child to a fee paying private school? And there's not many non-denominational schools around.

So if it comes to a choice between commuting distance, money and your childs safety you go with.....

eth0_ wrote:

...Spoken by a non-parent, i'm guessing...

eth0_

Your reply makes no sense. Care to rephrase it?

Are you saying i'm a bad parent if I don't drive from say, Rathfarnham to Blanchardstown every day, to bring my child to a non-denominational school? What if I can't afford a car? And if I send my child to any catholic school she's in danger of being sexually abused?? How ridiculous!

TempestSabre

eth0_ wrote:

Your reply makes no sense. Care to rephrase it?

Are you saying i'm a bad parent if I don't drive from say, Rathfarnham to Blanchardstown every day, to bring my child to a non-denominational school? What if I can't afford a car? And if I send my child to any catholic school she's in danger of being sexually abused?? How ridiculous!

But people DO send their kids to what they believe are "better" schools instead of the local school. Some even move country to achieve it. You don't even have to cross the liffey to achieve non-denominational if don't want to. You make like theres only a handful of schools. Whereas theres 19 educate together schools in the greater Dublin area. Dalkey, Ranelagh, Rathfarnham, Monkstown etc.

The OP has been going on about RC in isolation the whole thread as if abuse is only specific to RC schools. Thats not even logical. The thread started with "School wants proof my child is a catholic" and just went in a rant from there.

Lets look at the news today... http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/

Scandal of abused mum who faces home sell-off

"My parents had no choice about sending me to national school.

"I had to go.

"The responsibility for ensuring we were safe and protected rests with the State," she said.

Colm O'Gorman, director of the abuse victims' support group One in Four, accused the State of performing a "rather blatant dodge" in claiming to have no legal responsibility for the actions of teachers in national schools.

He said the Department of Education directly paid the salaries of teachers, set the terms of their employment and agreed their contracts.

But, he said, it continues to place responsibility for their actions on schools' boards of management which are made up of volunteers.

Whatever about the State's historical dependence on religious and charity organisations for schooling in the past, it must now "accept responsibility" for children in its schools, he said.

"One-in-five computers in classrooms are useless"

The survey also reveals that fee-paying secondary schools spend more than twice as much on ICTs as Free Education schools - an average of €22,561 compared with €10,557. Both primary and special schools rely on fundraising to support spending on ICTs.

Both the INTO and ICT Ireland last night expressed concern at the survey findings. ICT Ireland Executive Hannah Grene said that "the figures are a disgrace".

"As a wealthy country that prides itself on being at the forefront of the knowledge economy, we should be offering our children the best possible education and the skills they need."

eth0_

19 non-denominational schools to serve all of Dublin city and county isn't a lot.

My sister had to put her kids down for one in the North as soon as they were born, and there's much more of those types of schools there!

It's not an easy option to opt out of using catholic schools when they are the incumbent in this country.