Could this be legal?

azzeretti

**Mods, please move to appropriate forum, if needed**

Would anyone care to comment on this, it may settle a bet.

I work for a company that uses an ISP. The company gets it broadband connection via a wireless operator and it terminates at an ethernet connection in the comms room. In the comms room, is 4 x 24 port switches, distrubting the connection throughout the network. Not unlike thosands of companies on this island. Does anyone see any legal issue with this company sharing this internet connection? Afterall, over 200 people are using this 1 connection.

Which leads me to this.

I am also a member of a management company (A legally, registered entity). I was legally added to the company when I purchased my house, like all my neighbours. Would anyone like to point out the differences between "The Management Company" C\O my house, buying an internet connection and sharing it with the 150 members of the housing estate and management committe? I can't see any legal reason, why there should be any differences between these two registered companies? And why, there aren't people doing this already.

JohnK

I'd imagine it all depends on the terms and conditions in the contract you sign when you get the connection.

dade

azzeretti wrote:

**Mods, please move to appropriate forum, if needed**

Would anyone care to comment on this, it may settle a bet.

I work for a company that uses an ISP. The company gets it broadband connection via a wireless operator and it terminates at an ethernet connection in the comms room. In the comms room, is 4 x 24 port switches, distrubting the connection throughout the network. Not unlike thosands of companies on this island. Does anyone see any legal issue with this company sharing this internet connection? Afterall, over 200 people are using this 1 connection.

Which leads me to this.

I am also a member of a management company (A legally, registered entity). I was legally added to the company when I purchased my house, like all my neighbours. Would anyone like to point out the differences between "The Management Company" C\O my house, buying an internet connection and sharing it with the 150 members of the housing estate and management committe? I can't see any legal reason, why there should be any differences between these two registered companies? And why, there aren't people doing this already.

only thing i can think of is if one was menat for hoem use and not business use. they probably have different rates so the office has a business broadband package and pay tax etc on it. while the management company may only have bought a residential package. probably has lower cost.

I guess it depends on teh terms of service with each. the company has purchased with the expressed intention of sharing (i assume anyway) the management company would problably buy residetial so it should be confided to one household. multiple connactions may be allowed but it may be restricted to on physical house/building.

i guess read the small print on both service agreements.

jor el

There would be nothing illegal about it (i.e. you couldn't be arrested or sued) however if it's in breach of the terms of the contract then they could disconnect you. For a business, it's probably fine to share it within the company LAN.

For home connections, it's usually expressly forbidden to share the connection outside of the household (with a neighbour for example). I'd imagine the reason for this is because the bill payer is legally responsible for what is downloaded. If there is someone who has no contract, or registered details, with the ISP who has access to their network, then they could get up to all sorts of mischief.

Also, sharing a home DSL connection (of 1-3Mbps) with 200 or so people would make it painfully unusable for all involved.

azzeretti

200 users would be a bit much, although up to this might be ok with QOS and shaping.
I am really more concerned with the ISP viewpoint. The contract would actual be with the Managemnt Company i.e a Business service to the Management Company, located at a resedtial address.

I suppose its worth srcutinising the actual contract!

Foxwood

azzeretti wrote:

200 users would be a bit much, although up to this might be ok with QOS and shaping.
I am really more concerned with the ISP viewpoint. The contract would actual be with the Managemnt Company i.e a Business service to the Management Company, located at a resedtial address.

I suppose its worth srcutinising the actual contract!

There would be nothing "illegal" about it - you wouldn't be breaking any laws. But if you breached the terms of the contract, your supplier could cut you off.

More importantly, you'd be liable for any illegal usage by your "neighbours". The next time the music copyright guys decide to buy some pubicity by arresting 12 year old girls for ripping off Brittany Spears, your address could be on the sub-poena.

watty

Your problem is that all those people in an apartment do not behave like office users. One person can use up the cap. If that happens in a office there are easy solutions.

Without a managed switch (and expertise to set it up with quota for each person) you are creating a disaster.

You need a higher grade package than a normal domestic package and than most small businesses need.

You *MUST* negotiate with the ISP and get an appropriate package and also support unless you are unusually expert at IT.

Chaz

Care to tell us who the ISP is?

dub45

Are yout talking of approaching the isp as a management company and negotiating a contract for the supply of internet services to 150 people or something maybe a little more vague? If the former then surely there could not possibly be any problem - the isp either says yes or no.

Akula

I know of several blocks of student apartments who are buying a single backend link and then hooking up several hundred students to the connection.

So contracts for connections that can be shared to residential users do exist. No idea of the rates.

azzeretti

watty wrote:

Your problem is that all those people in an apartment do not behave like office users. One person can use up the cap. If that happens in a office there are easy solutions.

Without a managed switch (and expertise to set it up with quota for each person) you are creating a disaster.

You need a higher grade package than a normal domestic package and than most small businesses need.

You *MUST* negotiate with the ISP and get an appropriate package and also support unless you are unusually expert at IT.

This was more of a "what if" question really, questioning the legaility of this setup. Technically, there wouldn't be any problems (as, I am unusally expert at IT
I was just looking to see how the law might stand up against this.

bk

A better question is,why would the residents want to buy into such a service?

Would you really want to share a 3m DSL connection (just as an example) with 200 people and which is already shared with 24 people?

It would be useless.

Now there is nothing wrong with buying a dedicated business line and share it, but you will definitely pay through the noise for it.

Also you would then be responsible for collecting the rent from all the users to pay the ISP and network gear (not cheap), it would be very painful.

Much easier to just arrange something with one of the companiesthat regularly supply services to apartments like Smart, Magnet, NTL, Eircom etc. Just don't get one of those stupid exclusive arrangements.

watty

It depends on the T&C if it is legal. In terms of IT expertise the contention you propose does not make much sense and not simple at all to manage. You really can't do this without explaining to the ISP. A question more of common sense than legality.

WizZard

If it were a business package then yes it is legal. Most providers have a "no resell" clause in the T & C so you would not be able to resell the service to neighbours. However, if all homeowners are part of the management company then you could simply raise the management service fees to cover the yearly cost and work it that way.

I would suggest you would need a couple of high bandwidth connections pooled and then shared. I would suggest SDSL, or similar if available. Magnet do a lovely 2mb/2mb product that is uncontended for €450 per month (see www.magnetbusiness.ie). IMO it should be well within your reach if there are ca 100 people sharing the cost.

You may have problems however when someone points out that they can get their "own" broadband for €10 per month with their phone calls etc (see www.btireland.ie) and it's faster than your shared service...

Foxwood

WizZard wrote:

If it were a business package then yes it is legal.

As he wouldn't be breaking any laws, it would be "legal" with any package. It might break the Terms and Conditions of any service contract, but that wouldn't make it "illegal", just in breach of the Terms and Conditions.

azzeretti

Thanks for your replies.

I wasn't keen to get into the technical aspect of this, as it wasn't meant to be a technical question, hence the request to the mods to move to other (Legal) forum if needed.

The subject came up between friends recently and there was much debate on it.

I was also recently approached (in a IT consultancy capacity) by a group representing a residents committe (spread over 10 miles!) with a view to providing them broadband access in rual areas. It was from this meeting the dicussion of legaility arose (which can be avoided with Group Schemes etc, but, like I said, it was this particular quesion that arose)

Thanks again.

ScumLord

Some providers don't seem to care what you do with your conection but most charge extra for sharing. If you look at the providers packages it will say one user, up to five users and so on. It's all down to what you agree to in the terms and conditions.