LoL at the latest opinion poll-some of you wont be happy...

FF up 8 points to 39%

PD's up 1 point

FG down 2 points

Labour down 4 points

When voters were asked how satisfied they are with the party leaders, 53% said they were happy with the way Bertie Ahern is doing his job, an increase of one point since May.
Enda Kenny is up two points at 42%.

And all this after the recent events...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1012/poll.html

The RTÉ news Dáil correspondent who I have to say,I noticed during the Bertiegate affair seemed to my mind anyway to be revelling in the excitement of the then unfolding events had a face like mr Bean when reading out those figures

Sand

We get the government we deserve.

phantom_lord

That's just crazy, how can the % of people happy with bertie be on the increase

constitutionus

its amazing what a poll at ogla fianna fail will turn up:D

theres only one poll that matters and its comming in june!

Villain

Sand wrote:

We get the government we deserve.

See my Sig

mcaul

The public have simply seen the so called scandal as pure political playmaking by Fine Gael / Labour.

They spent 3 weeks screaming about a rather trivial issue without trying to give ideas for better running of the country. - Its not what we need!


Fine Gael simply do not have the personell in their ranks to provide any sort of valid alternative government. - And I used to vote for them!!! arrrrghh

It's actually an Irish times MRBI poll which are usually fairly reliable snapshots.

constitutionus

ala the citizenship referendum? or when royston brady was meant to be a euro mp?:D

Villain

This is exactly what FF didn't need, it will give them a false sense of security and rally FG and Labour troops, well thats my opinion.

mike65

The 'plain people' don't like to see a man being kicked when he's down. Thats the lesson here. They view the last few weeks as a media storm and little else.

Mike.

lizzyrocker

mike65 wrote:

The 'plain people' don't like to see a man being kicked when he's down. Thats the lesson here. They view the last few weeks as a media storm and little else.

Mike.

Can so many Irish people really be that stupid?

The typical irish way of doing things: bitch and moan about the government for 5 years, and then do nothing about it (and vote the same stupid f**kers back in)

As said above we get the government we deserve :mad:

Jonny Arson

Tristrame wrote:

FF up 8 points to 39%

PD's up 1 point

FG down 2 points

Labour down 4 points



And all this after the recent events...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1012/poll.html

The RTÉ news Dáil correspondent who I have to say,I noticed during the Bertiegate affair seemed to my mind anyway to be revelling in the excitement of the then unfolding events had a face like mr Bean when reading out those figures

I don't know whether I want to laugh or cry!

Well as we all know the only poll that matters come next summer but I can't say I'm surprised when ''good aul' Bertie, the man of the people'' :rolleyes: is getting justifiably kicked on the ground that his fans come out in force. I just wonder whether the ''Bertiegate'' saga has infact boosted this current coalition on the basis that suddenly the casual voter has suddenly woken from a slumber and realised that all of a sudden yes there is a strong realistic possibility the government could get kicked out in 2007, they look at their maturing SSIA's, their 1 billion euro worth homes and would rather stay in ''comfort zone'' despite the endless lists of failures of the FF/PD government and will as a result stick with the devil they know better. This could well be the biggest blessing in disguise for Bertie and the government. Says alot about the great people of Ireland doesn't it!

Glenbhoy

mcaul wrote:

The public have simply seen the so called scandal as pure political playmaking by Fine Gael / Labour.

They spent 3 weeks screaming about a rather trivial issue without trying to give ideas for better running of the country. - Its not what we need!


Fine Gael simply do not have the personell in their ranks to provide any sort of valid alternative government. - And I used to vote for them!!! arrrrghh

It is about time that the alternatives were put to us alright, although the idea of fg and labour entering into coalition pre-election is laughable anyway, how can they justify it??
I don't agree that the Bertie issue was a trivial issue and I'm sure that the tribunals will show that in the fullness of time (presuming McDowell hasn't shut them down before that!!). I also think that FF would be all the better for getting shot of the dithering one (well they couldn't do much worse).

gurramok

lizzyrocker wrote:

Can so many Irish people really be that stupid?

The typical way irish way of doing things: bitch and moan about the government for 5 years, and then do nothing about it (and vote the same stupid f**kers back in)

As said above we get the government we deserve :mad:

Yeh, Irish people can be stupid.

Its the Bertie sympathetic vote, some of those voters work with me and i just laughed at them explaining their reasons with the likes of 'ah poor Bertie, would they ever just leave him alone, he's going through a hard time'

Don't worry, it'll wear off and FF will be back down to where they belong % wise in next few months.

Sgt. Sensible

Clearly, the people have been so traumatised by the 5-2 drubbing by mighty Cyprus, they're incapable of any sort of rational thought. It's the only possible explanation.

flogen

mike65 wrote:

The 'plain people' don't like to see a man being kicked when he's down. Thats the lesson here. They view the last few weeks as a media storm and little else.

Mike.

I'd say if it's indicative of anything it's that FF has a great way of spinning things.
They were the ones that played on the personal side of the whole affair and who made Bertie out to be some kind of victim, the problem being that the people bought it and somehow saw any questions about Bertie as some kind of attack on him as a human being.
The opposition did anything but kick at him, they didn't know what to do with the situation to be honest and they let themselves get spun (because they were afraid of pushing it themselves)

ReefBreak

The Shinners are down 1 as well. Nice.

Time Magazine

Ah feck.

I'm emigrating.

Five more years of that gobsh*te.

Sleepy

The teflon coating holds firm despite public admissions of impropriety. Why doesn't that surprise me?

And they say I'm crazy when I say we should refuse people with low IQ's the vote? :rolleyes:

lostexpectation

up 8 from 31% which was damn low... apparently taken after the A-case, so from terrible to ok...?

Dave!

flogen wrote:

I'd say if it's indicative of anything it's that FF has a great way of spinning things.
They were the ones that played on the personal side of the whole affair and who made Bertie out to be some kind of victim, the problem being that the people bought it and somehow saw any questions about Bertie as some kind of attack on him as a human being.
The opposition did anything but kick at him, they didn't know what to do with the situation to be honest and they let themselves get spun (because they were afraid of pushing it themselves)

Yeah agreed here.

And I'm surprised at the poll -- most people I've been talking to about this seemed to want his head hmmm.

Heinrich

Do you really believe these poll results? With all the smoke & mirrors coupled with Bertie's vague ramblings of whether they were gifts or loans and Poodle McDoodle's metronome impressions one might wonder at how gullible we (you) are!

The capacity for believing lies and *mistruths* by the Irish public is awesome!

The increases in energy costs, gas and electricity will be offset by the great handouts from the surplus stamp duty collection! Or will they?

Why not look more carefully into the mismanagement of these Leinster House lads and ladies. Law and order is a total disaster. Hospitals are not much better. The property market is getting more out of reach for the younger people etc.....

Great job and if that satisfies you then get out there next year and vote for the parties who brought you this current success.

Rock Climber

Heinrich wrote:

Do you really believe these poll results? With all the smoke & mirrors coupled with Bertie's vague ramblings of whether they were gifts or loans and Poodle McDoodle's metronome impressions one might wonder at how gullible we (you) are!

The capacity for believing lies and *mistruths* by the Irish public is awesome!

Maybe you would benefit from taking a step back and looking at things from some others point of view.
Obviously this forum is a magnet for political activists,people with a gripe and people who just like active discussion on their opinion.
By default most of those will be here with an agenda.
Meanwhile many of the people out in the real world that I've been talking to,people that are voters have kind of looked on this as a media get Bertie frenzy.All of them that I've spoken to though Bertie was wrong in taking the money but... they also have the cop on to realise that this was in a different era and dont believe in going way back into that kind of cobwebbed past when standards were only begining to change.

In actual fact an awfull lot of people I've talked to have said to me anyway that the oppositions harping on at this just to get their hated Bertie was inclining to vote for FF.
So that and this poll just shows how inept and out of touch the opposition parties are with ordinary thinking.
The should concentrate on attacking failures and come up with answers (if they have any) and let the people judge that.

The increases in energy costs, gas and electricity will be offset by the great handouts from the surplus stamp duty collection! Or will they?

Why not look more carefully into the mismanagement of these Leinster House lads and ladies. Law and order is a total disaster. Hospitals are not much better. The property market is getting more out of reach for the younger people etc.....

Great job and if that satisfies you then get out there next year and vote for the parties who brought you this current success.

The problem with that analysis is that I was in an electrical store the other day and the assistants there were telling me that plasma's and other goodies were literally walking out of the shop.They've never been so busy.
Theres a large voting population out there who have had their nest feathered and they are very likely to vote too.
It's all very well to emphasise the doom and gloom but you need enough of it.
People in the pub at weekends partying away their dosh arent going to give a hoot about health service queues for instance.
And thats the root of the oppositions problem,theres a lot of very well off people out there now and they all vote.

aliveandkicking

Rock Climber wrote:

Maybe you would benefit from taking a step back and looking at things from some others point of view.
Obviously this forum is a magnet for political activists,people with a gripe and people who just like active discussion on their opinion.
By default most of those will be here with an agenda.
Meanwhile many of the people out in the real world that I've been talking to,people that are voters have kind of looked on this as a media get Bertie frenzy.All of them that I've spoken to though Bertie was wrong in taking the money but... they also have the cop on to realise that this was in a different era and dont believe in going way back into that kind of cobwebbed past when standards were only begining to change.

In actual fact an awfull lot of people I've talked to have said to me anyway that the oppositions harping on at this just to get their hated Bertie was inclining to vote for FF.
So that and this poll just shows how inept and out of touch the opposition parties are with ordinary thinking.
The should concentrate on attacking failures and come up with answers (if they have any) and let the people judge that.
The problem with that analysis is that I was in an electrical store the other day and the assistants there were telling me that plasma's and other goodies were literally walking out of the shop.They've never been so busy.
Theres a large voting population out there who have had their nest feathered and they are very likely to vote too.
It's all very well to emphasise the doom and gloom but you need enough of it.
People in the pub at weekends partying away their dosh arent going to give a hoot about health service queues for instance.
And thats the root of the oppositions problem,theres a lot of very well off people out there now and they all vote.

That is the most sensible and well thought out post I've ever read on the politics board.

Sgt. Sensible

I've never understood why the PDs aren't more popular. Is it because they reflect the views of younger people who just can't be bothered voting or what.

leninbenjamin

Rock Climber wrote:

The problem with that analysis is that I was in an electrical store the other day and the assistants there were telling me that plasma's and other goodies were literally walking out of the shop.They've never been so busy.
Theres a large voting population out there who have had their nest feathered and they are very likely to vote too.
It's all very well to emphasise the doom and gloom but you need enough of it.
People in the pub at weekends partying away their dosh arent going to give a hoot about health service queues for instance.
And thats the root of the oppositions problem,theres a lot of very well off people out there now and they all vote.

Yeah but you can put a different slant on this too...

the electronics shop is doing such a good business partly due to an increase in personal debt, which is continually growing at an alarming rate (although mostly due to property)

and those people are only partying at the weekends because they have so much disposable because they haven't a mortgage like their parents would have had at their age, mostly because they cant afford one. We're moving toward the more European model of property being owned by the few.

There isnt a problem with the Irish economy like this as such... but having said that we need strong politicians who will be able to lead us through and handle the economy properly should we suddenly find ourselves in a recession due to debt/property collapse, which is almost inevitable eventually.

what worries me most is that all of this can be put to the side by both government and opposition, over something as trivial as Bertie's accepting a few grand here and there.

Endasaurus

I'm a novice when it comes to Politics so forgive any naivety on my part but..

Heinrich wrote:

Why not look more carefully into the mismanagement of these Leinster House lads and ladies. Law and order is a total disaster. Hospitals are not much better.

Is Health not run under Mary Harney? And I thought McDowell operated Justice?

What have the botch jobs of PD-run departments got to do with Fianna Fail? Surely it should be the PDs who are judged on this?

Personally speaking, I admire several Fianna Fail TDs, particularly Mary Hanafin (better than her predeccesor by a long mile..) and Brian Cowen. I think one of the key reasons FF remain so popular is the strong personalities and outlooks of these, and other, TDs. I personally amn't too fussed about Bertie's recent controversies, although I believe a change in leadership and shakeup in terms of outlook for the future would only be a good thing.

However, I have yet to see any signs of what an alternative government under FG/Labour will do differently

Again, I'm a beginner when it comes to understanding current events and politics so if someone could help me out that would be great.

redspider

That poll:

Fianna Fáil - 39%
Fine Gael - 26%
Labour - 11%
Sinn Féin - 8%
Greens - 6%
Independents - 6%
PDs - 4%

like many national polls based on phone-calls to 1024 or so people is never a true or accurate litmus test of what the real STV, multi-seat (varied) 42x constituency vote would produce. The only way to really tell would be to mimic the election on a statistical sampled basis, and such a survey would take at least 50 times more effort to conduct, 42,000 people or so. Polling is an art rather than an exact science so no party will take solace in the figures.

Taking the figures at face value, FF/PD have 43% and FG/Lab/Greens have 43%. So thats close, and with +/- 2% pts of granularity, the election could go either way.

But overall, there is a long road to the election. Many parties have not been campaiging, unlike FG and Labour. The Greens have to some extent, but SF have notaby been quiet. Maybe they are saving all their efforts for a splurge once the election is called. Or maybe they are really concentrating on the NI 'problem'.

Someone above wrote that there is a lot of support for the current FF/PD Government due to the general well-being, plasma screens, etc. That indeed is the case and the FG/Lab approach of going for the 'poor' vote is not a tactic I would advise them to employ.

But even the wealthy and those doing reasonably well in all countries see that a change of Government, whether from Republican to Democrat, Labour to Conservative, or in our case FF+PD to FG/Lab is a good thing, even if the incoming one will not fare any better. Ironically for FF too, the timing is good to drop out if things get bad economy wise. However, as there are no signs of a slow-down yet, (eg: homes being built this year will be another record and approach 90,000!) they may not want to see FG/Lab being in power during a perceived 'good time'.

If I was FF, I would change Bertie out for Cowen before the election though. That would refresh the face of the party at least. Bertie has been in the job so long I think even he would relish a rest from it. They had their chance to change leader (internally with the recent scandal) but didnt do it. I have no idea why not.

I reckon it will be close at the next election, and I think many people will vote for the smaller parties which could see a 'hung' Dail situation.

For the poster above who asked for tips and info on politics, you enter this arena with peril. As someone once said, "Cast ye a cold eye on Life, on politics (sic), Horseman, walk by", or something like that. ;-)

I know Confucious was as confused by it as anyone. It may be democracy, but the system is not fully democratic. I'd like a sytem change but its like trying to get the current incumbents (the turkey's) to vote for Xmas. No chance and then only very very slowly.

Redspider

Rebeller

:cool:

Goes to show, democracy in this country is a joke!!!!

No need to worry though, with Mcdowell as Tanaiste we're one step closer to a fascist dictatorship.

Then all those builders...sorry "developers" (it makes them seem so much more sophisticated doesn't it:D ) and other members of Ireland's business "elite" can cancel their brown envelope stationery orders and finally forget about the introduction of e-voting.

Electoral manipulation will no longer be required as they will finally have the regime they have always wanted.

mcaul

One more scandal before the election and Fianna Fail will have an overall majority!!!!

Sgt. Sensible

Rebeller wrote:

No need to worry though, with Mcdowell as Tanaiste we're one step closer to a fascist dictatorship.

I don't think the government would be any good at being a fascist dictatorship either.