Getting hurt in school

Dreamer 7

My little lad started school in Sept. When i collected him on Tuesday he had a split lip from being pushed in the yard. He told me he was very brave and didnt cry but that there was lots of blood.
He said the teacher on duty in the yard knew about it but his own teacher didnt. How she didnt notice a big swollen lip is beyond me.
Yesterday I collected him from school and he has a big purple bruise on his cheekbone and do you think the teacher noticed???
This time he didnt tell the teacher in the yard , the boy who did it was pretending to be a dog and scraping him with his nails although nails dont cause bruises.
So when i inform the teacher she is like "Oh if he didnt report it in the yard there will be no incident report" I dont f*ckin want a report I want this child punished. Im sure if my boy was marking someone else I would have been approached.

What can I do9, he loves school and some little f*ckin foriegner is not gonna put him off. Racist or whatever the child has f*ck all english and the teracher is like well we tried to explain to him.
So he gets away with it just because of the language he speaks,. I cannot put up with my boy being hurt , incidently i was bullied in school, the same school and I had the same teacher. I want to nip it in the bud now but noone seems interested.

Sorry for the long one . Any advice??:(

Nevyn

Take photos of your child and make a note of the incident and then go and make an appointment with the principal and ask for an explaintion of thwy they are failing thier duty of care to your child and not providing him a safe enviroment.
Ask to see the school policy on bullying. It should be simular to this one provided by the dept of education.
http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?pcategory=33791&ecategory=33803&language=EN


If you don't get any joy there I personally would take my child out of school or at least threaten to while you go to the board of management with the matter and if needs be the department of education.

Also work with your little one and try and give him and confidence to Yell out if some one hits him and make a fuss.

Don't be fobbed off.

The first few months can be hard for a child to settle and this will not help.

crosstownk

Hmmmmmm.......... I would request a meeting with the principal and any relevant teachers to voice your concerns. This kind of thing needs to be stopped as soon as possible before it adversly affects your child.

I just did a quick search and cam up with this > http://www.ispcc.ie/parbullying.htm

and this http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?pcategory=33791&ecategory=33803&language=EN

Hopefully you may find some helpful information.

I'd be interested to know how you get on. Keep us posted - your experiences may be of assistance to others.

Gurgle

Dreamer 7 wrote:

the teracher is like well we tried to explain to him.

Thats complete shyte, the teacher has a much greater responsibility than 'trying to explain'.
If the child is bullying, the teacher has to bring it to the principle's attention and then its a matter for the principle and the child's parents.

Some teachers just couldn't be bothered - you should talk to the principle yourself and specifically mention that you told the teacher and s/he didn't seem to care.

TempestSabre

I agree with the others, come down on them heavy, it needs to be stamped out straight away.

Maccattack

watch the racist tone though.


and dont go in ranting and raving, or YOU will look like the bully.

Dreamer 7

I know to keep the raving under my hat, and i would never make racist comments in front of my child either, because I think its great that they all grow up together and dont see each other as different.
I just get soo mad because he really is such a nice boy very polite and would never go looking for trouble.
I'm gonna take photos as advised and the next time anything happens I'm gonna bypass the dizzy teacher and go straight to the headmistress, I wouldnt call it bullying yet as its seemingly isolated but I know what it is like to be bullied and i will NEVER let my little man go through that.
I never wanted to be one of those mams who fight at the school gates but if I get no joy from the school should i speak to the parents???

Kashkai

Sorry to hear about what happened to your son. Bullying can be a complete nightmare for a child, it can and will put kids off going to school. I know because I was a quiet kid in school and thus the target of the school thug. Being pushed around, hit or even just verbally abused can be so demoralising and will destroy a child's confidence. I ended up not wanting to go to school and in the end I started to mitch. My teachers were blind to the bullying and had no idea that I was getting so much crap from that a$$hole. In the end, I had to stand up to the bully and in time honoured fashion, he backed off when he saw that I'd had enough. Bullies are by their very nature inate cowards.

Nowaday's school's are more tuned into eradicating bullying whether because they have a good policy towards stamping out this behaviour or they are just afraid of being sued by the parents of a bullied child. Don't hesitate to go to the headmaster/mistress and make a formal complaint. Until you do this, they can always use the defence that you never made a complaint to them. This child who's giving your son a hard time needs to be told in the strongest possible terms that his behaviour is unacceptable and that if he persists, he will be punished. However, having a go at his parents at the school gates will just make you out to be some kind of crazy woman and any sympathy you might have from the teachers/other parents will evaporate.

Contact the school, make a complaint and let them take it from there. If they do nothing, then the Board of Management and the Dept of Education are your next port of call. I wouldn't let the sitaution lie though as your son should be enjoying his time in school, not be living in fear of a bully.

Gurgle

Dreamer 7 wrote:

if I get no joy from the school should i speak to the parents???

In a word, no.
I know I'm generalising irresponsibly but kids who bully are more likely to have parents who don't care.

katiemac

Write a letter outlining in bullet point form what happened to your child on two occasions wbilst playing in the school yard.

Outline your comments to the teacher and their response.

Then ask for the response from the school Head or Chairman of the BOM or you will be taking the matter further.

That will work.

If they request a meeting ensure you write down everything that is said. Bring along your child's father. Assert yourself, without losing control, and repeat to those at the meeting exactly what the next steps are.

Good look!!

Maccattack

Dont wait for it to happen again. Book an appointment with the principal now and take the photos with you.

Stand up for your little fellow who cant stand up for himself. The knowledge that you did will carry him through life and make him a stronger person because he knows his mum loves/loved him, kept him safe and valued his placidness.

To the principal speak as a concerned caring parent. Be firm but polite. Dont attack the school for it and you will win the respect of the principal, the teachers, your son, yourself and me.

Little-Devil

The end of the day it sounds like your son is been bullied and the teacher(s) are turning a blind eye for some unknown reason. I agree with last post that you should book appointment with the principal and vent your anger at him/her as this has happened twice and your son may not be the only one who has been bullied or pushed by this bully. I know some may think that someone that young and that age cannot be called a bully, buy I disagree.

My advice personally would be to get your son to stand up for himself now before it’s too late. The effects this could have on your son both mentally and physically could affect him for the rest of his school life and his education will suffer as a result and that (education) is the most important thing here plus his self respect. You may think that’s a over reaction and that you and others may not think violence is not the answer and I would agree, but if he doesn’t learn to defend himself and stand up then the bullying will carry on and on for through his teen years. I speak from experience and seeing this first hand. I used to bully myself, but not to the levels i have seeing and more offten then not i would step in and try stop it as i knew it was wrong adn too much. The teachers turned a blind an eye, secondary schools. Why? I dont know, but i always thought they were affraid of the bullys themselfs. The only way to stop it was to expel them from the school. I hope this is not the case for your son in the future.

It’s a tough one

Maccattack

Er, I didn't say 'vent your anger'. that is completely the wrong thing to do. Aggression just gets peoples back up. Forget it.

And this business about getting him to stand up for himself is wrong too. How old is he? 5?

No. His parents stand up for him at this stage. Kids at that age still need to be protected from the big bad world. You can do that by speaking to the principal. IT WILL END AFTER THAT.

Let him be a cute little kid for as long as he can. Telling him to stand up for himself would damage him further. He's not capable of it yet. the thought alone would terrify him.

Besides. Does teaching a kid to fight violence with violence sound right to you? I doubt it. You'd just be setting him on a long journey of agro.

Be a parent and look after your son. The right way.

tk123

When I was in school a kid ran straight into me - i got the force of their head into my nose. Anyhoos they cleaned me up in school and I was sent back to my lesson. Being little I didn't realise that I couldn't get my writing to fit between the lines in my copy because my vision was blurred or that feeling sick meant I had concussion. After walking most of the way home I got sick and fainted and was broght to hospital. My parents flipped out - the teacher didn't realise there was a problem until that evening when she was correcting our work and saw that my writing was all over the place. OP go straight to the principle - your son sounds well behaved and too 'brave' as he puts it to complain to the teacher.

Little-Devil

Maccattack wrote:

Er, I didn't say 'vent your anger'. that is completely the wrong thing to do. Aggression just gets peoples back up. Forget it. .

I know what you said “book an appointment with the principal" and I agree with you on that. The end of the day he will have to learn to stand up for himself, so I would say sooner rather then later is better.

Maccattack wrote:

And this business about getting him to stand up for himself is wrong too. How old is he? 5?.

How is the that wrong? If he doesn't the bullying will continue. What's he going to do when he's say 10? Run and home and tell his parents? That will make it even worse for him.

Maccattack wrote:

No. His parents stand up for him at this stage. Kids at that age still need to be protected from the big bad world. You can do that by speaking to the principal.

Maccattack wrote:

IT WILL END AFTER THAT...

NO IT WON'T.

The teachers have turned a blind eye so far from what the OP has said or they don't seem to care. Like I said before I have seeing this first hand as I hung around with the wrong crowd in school and the teachers always turned a blind. Why? I don’t know like I said they were afraid or couldn’t be bothered

Maccattack wrote:

Besides. Does teaching a kid to fight violence with violence sound right to you? I doubt it. You'd just be setting him on a long journey of agro.

NO. Again i agree violence is not the answer, your simply teaching the child to stick up from himself. You’re not telling to go around and knock the block off everyone and its ok pat him on the back etc. IF someone keeps hitting you and bullying you, then stand up and defend yourself and hit then back, soon enough they will stop. If he doesn't then that would carry on and on it only gets worse when he starts in secondary school. I doubt in 10years that bullying will be gone. It’s worse in secondary schools. The secondary school I went to did a survey in the school one year I remember and the results where that up to 5 pupils in each class were been bullied or got some from of bulling ( it was a mix school ) ( this was kept confidential ) but still nothing was done to help those or try stop it.

So yes I agree with you, but what I am saying is that he needs to learn to defend himself. If he doesn't then he will hate going to school even more so then say in another 5years if he's getting bullied. What would the parents prefer him to suffer and go to the teacher and principal or to stand up for himself so as it doesn’t happen in the future?

The end of the day you go to school for an education and to get educated not bullied. I'm sure people that have kept quiet and got bullied regret not standing up to them and i am sure they probably could have done 10times or more better with there Junior and leaving cert results.

The pressures of today

luckat

Dreamer, calm down. I know it's not easy, but calm down. You're not going to help your kid by going off the deep end.

Now, one question you need to have answered - and I wouldn't necessarily ask your kid directly, you can probably elicit the information by things like telling stories about life in the playground, for instance - is whether it's always the same little boy (boy I assume?) who's doing this, or one of the same group of friends - or if, on the other hand, this is just random play that got too rough.

If it's the same kid or group, I'd write to the principal, and ask for the involvement of TCD's anti-bullying group:

http://www.abc.tcd.ie/

who do successful interventions on bullying in schools.

If it's just random rough play, I'd also write to the principal, pointing out that your child has already been injured twice in the schoolyard - once without the teacher even noticing - and this puts the school in danger of legal proceedings if it keeps happening, because the schoolyard might be perceived not to be adequately supervised.

Note: this isn't legal advice, I'm not a lawyer.

(I don't agree that bullies' parents are necessarily uncaring, by the way. It's as easy for a kid who's lonely and confused and angry to become a bully as it is for a kid in the same situation to become bullied.)

scrattletrap

Go to the principal on Monday, don't wait for the next incident. My son was bullied all last year at one point the bully and his friends almost choked my son. The response from the teacher was that he brings it on himself as he would stand up and say if they were misbehaving and would step in if they were bullying another child (I have seen him do this, brave little soul, he saw a child in the school yard getting bullied and stepped into tell the bully to stop)
I was with the principal countless times, was anything done about the child was it heck, the bully came from a well known undesirable family and I think the school was worried that if they corrected him that the school would be burnt down (a very real possibility from that family).
In the end the only solution I had was to take my child out of that class, unfortunately it means that some other child has become the punching bag.
My son comes home happy everyday so far this year, I almost forgot what it was like to see him smile.
Don't let it get that far, say something NOW.

luckat

And if you don't get good results from the principal, perhaps you might cc a follow-up letter to the principal requesting the intervention of the Anti-Bullying Centre in TCD to the Department of Education.

It's also important that you get to know as many of the parents in your kid's class as possible.

When you have a community of adults who have it in common that they have their kids at a school, the community can often act gently together and have a lot more power than a single parent acting alone. If a group of parents goes to the principal, it's taken a lot more seriously than one parent or couple.

But above all, keep calm and courteous and gentle. Teachers can be terribly defensive. (I remember hearing of one staffroom where a parent's note saying "Jimmy is not fit for school" was pinned up on the noticeboard!)

netwhizkid

As a child I was bullied in school which began in Junior Infants and continued into 2nd year in Secondary School at which Point I dropped out of school before I got my Junior Certificate. I can well remember my first incident as if it was yesterday. A split lip it was too, the kid that did it to me get his lip split and teeth grated of a pebble dash wall the following day by me and so it began a war which never really ended.

I ended up being suspended 14 times from National School while my bullies got suspended once. My parents who were so sick of the routine eventually kind of gave up and more or less encouraged me to fight my own corner, I was a strong kid and one day levelled two of my bullies and proceeded to attack the 6 ft+ headmaster by throwing chairs at him. Then with the good standard's they had, how do they resolve it, bring the guards into it and restrain me. Such stigmata followed me to secondary and I immediately bailed out.

My advice is to nip this in the bud immediately, launch a class action lawsuit against the school as my parents did in my final year of national school, however it was thrown out. Move school if necessary, mine spiralled out of control and almost ruined my life. My parents I owe alot to as they were my rock throughout all. I have succeeded even though I never got a proper education as a result, I am in a better financial position than my former bullies combined. I was lucky I guess as others may have ended up in the gutter.

Bullying must be stopped immediately, or your little fella will only end up worse for wear. Sorry for the long story but mine is an example where bullying made my childhood and early teens hell.

deisemum

Take photographs and make an appointment to see the principal asap. It might be an idea to tape any conversations with the teachers involved and the principal or bring another adult along to act as a witness because from my own experience they will close ranks and tell blatent lies and may even threaten you.

Some of the worst bullies in my childrens primary school are the teachers own children. They know they can get away with it.

Keep your cool and let the principal know that you will not tolerate further episodes. It might be no harm to follow up the meeting with a letter outlining what was discussed in the meeting including the proposed methods of dealing with the issue.

It is important to keep a diary if there are any other incidents.

It might be no harm informing or even reminding the principal that there are more cases coming before the courts and that earlier this year there were two successful cases in the national newspapers where one school turned a blind eye to other children bullying a boy and he was awarded over €10,000and the other case where a special needs assistant slapped a girl across the face. I think she got €12,000. These were young children in primary school

I wouldn't recommend taking a possible future case to court hoping to get a financial reward because it only deprived the school of badly needed funds but then again if financial penalties are needed to make a school take the matter seriously then so be it.

Maybe enrol your son in a self defence class, it will build his self esteem and they are also taught ways on how to avoid trouble and to only use self defence as a last resort.

luckat

Personally, I wouldn't go in with a gung-ho attitude. Remember, this is your son's workplace for the next seven years. He doesn't want to be the one the bosses hate.

But may I reiterate: the Anti-Bullying Centre in TCD does a very good intervention.

The child who's doing the bullying also needs help to stop this. He's not going to make many friends in life, or have a very successful life, if this is the way he negotiates.

And deisemum, if the teachers' kids are bullying in your own child's school, I'd also ask for ABC to come and work with the school.

Most of the time bullying happens not so much out of badness as because it's what people know to do.

An example from my own life: I was in the supermarket yesterday, stressed up to the nines because of various personal stuff. I drove into a narrow parking spot and the woman in the car next to me rolled down her window and said in a rather confrontational tone: "I'll never be able to get out of there."

I immediately snapped "Would you like to back my car out and park it, then?" Then I got out and realised that she was right - the space was actually very narrow. So I got back in and started to move back, and was blocked by other cars. I waited, with arms folded (a habit of mine) for them to get out of the way, and she waited.

Then she started to back, and I rolled down the window near her. She rather cautiously rolled down her own window, and I said "Hang on, I'm just waiting for them to let me out." She looked relieved. I waited another little bit, and then backed the car out, and then came back in leaving her more room to go, and she waved thanks and drove off.

Now, this had all the possibility to turn into a nasty slanging match, only both of us caught ourselves on after she'd snapped at me and I'd snapped back.

And this is often the way with confrontations and anger and misunderstandings.

At almost any time in most confrontations - but especially early on - it's possible to pour oil on troubled waters and *find a solution*.

If you do go bulling into the school, you'll get your way, but it may not be the very best thing to do for your son. If you *have* to do it, yes; but first, perhaps, you could try the approach "Look, we've got a problem starting up here - let's try to solve it together."

*If* that doesn't work you may have to involve the Department, send solicitors' letters, etc - and probably end up changing your son's school, and having all kinds of disturbance.

But perhaps if you (and the others involved) can focus on the solution you all desire - that the children will be happy and civilised together - you'll find your way to that solution more easily.

Sorry for the thousand-word essay...

tyney

Uncannily similar situation with my little fella. same crack, other kid can't speak english, they're both 4/5 years old. Now, I know my chap can be a bit agressive in his invasion of personal space. He will get in really close to someone's face to say something. I sort of felt sorry for the other kid, even though he hit my son. It's hard enough to communicate at that age. They are like dogs peeing on their new territory. He will get a fair few thumps over his next few years. Sometimes they end up the best of friends once the punches have been thrown. I taught mine to grab the arm of the bully, twist it behind his back and shove him away. The next day, the teacher had a word with me about my child's agressive behaviour. You can't win. I'd leave it and see how it pans out. Once it isn't a daily kicking, it will probably settle down. If you lose the head now, you will have no chance when he really gets into trouble, and he will, really, he will get into worse trouble than this.

luckat

Tyney, you'd do your kid a lot of good if you really reinforced standing further back to talk to someone. Just praise him when he does it - kids love praise.

Even if he stands back an inch further than usual, say "Oh, good lad, that's it", or something, and then keep praising him for a little further back till you have him at a civilised remove.

Have you had his hearing tested, by the way?

tyney

Hearing was tested, he only does the up close thing when he doesn't get feedback, like when you ignore him. He just keeps getting closer until you answer him. We're working on it, but it's on the list, along with peeing, showing his bum, and various other 4 year old stuff. I only posted because of the other kid not being able to speak english. I could imagine my lad asking him a question, the other kid not understanding and not answering, then my lad would go in looking for an answer. The other kid would eventually give him a whack to get rid of him. It doesn't excuse behaviour, It's just that, as adults we see things very black and white.

Dreamer 7

Thanks for the opinions guys

I went up the the school office on fri and asked for a copy of their policies on bullying etc. I made my complaint with the school secretary and she has arranged that a special eye is to be kept on him this week.

She showed me this incident book that records everything, I asked her where does this info go from here, the answer was nowhere, no follow up nothing.
Fat lot of use that is then.

I have got my son to point out the boy to me and he is only a little thing but seems to act like an animal all the time??????????
The bruise he got last thurs is still very visible and my gut instinct is to give the little bully a good slap but of course i wont.

Im gonna put my faith in the school for another few days and see what happens but god help that headmistress if he is hurt again:eek:

ArthurDent

Dreamer 7 wrote:

Thanks for the opinions guys

I went up the the school office on fri and asked for a copy of their policies on bullying etc. I made my complaint with the school secretary and she has arranged that a special eye is to be kept on him this week.

She showed me this incident book that records everything, I asked her where does this info go from here, the answer was nowhere, no follow up nothing.
Fat lot of use that is then.

I have got my son to point out the boy to me and he is only a little thing but seems to act like an animal all the time??????????
The bruise he got last thurs is still very visible and my gut instinct is to give the little bully a good slap but of course i wont.

Im gonna put my faith in the school for another few days and see what happens but god help that headmistress if he is hurt again:eek:

Dreamer,

It's good that you went back and followed up, but could I suggest that a) you follow up in writing to class teacher and principal about your concerns
b) also you could enquire if a note was being put on file re the other kid (it may be a once off incident, but may speak to a pattern of behaviour that needs to be addressed) and if there is a note to file on this incident in the kids file it can be seen how to handle this in the future.

Also as someone involved in a BOM, if you feel that this is not being dealt with properly over the coming weeks/months - you should write a note to the BOM, they are legally obliged to deal with it. Put all your concerns down in writing - it's far to easy for conversations to be forgotten, ignored etc if there is a serious problem with bullying in the school. Hopefully this isn't the case with your son, but you never know and it pays to be prepared.Best of luck

Shellie13

Maccattack wrote:

Stand up for your little fellow who cant stand up for himself. The knowledge that you did will carry him through life and make him a stronger person because he knows his mum loves/loved him, kept him safe and valued his placidness.

.

This is very true negelt to have his back and he'll never forgive you for it!

megadodge

Unfortunately most of the advice on this thread reminds me of the saying - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; Teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime".

Even if this issue is resolved through the correct medium, what's going to happen the next time he gets bullied ? And the time after that ? You're not always going to be there to look after him. He has to learn to stand up for himself or else this type of scenario will repeat itself over and over throughout his lifetime. And don't forget as he gets older the bullying will be a lot more subtle than a punch on the lip, but he won't be used to dealing with it himself and will continue to suffer.

Politically incorrect as my advice sounds, I know from experience that bullies look for soft targets and once the soft target stops being "soft" they move somewhere else.

My friend's nephew (6 at the time) was getting bullied at school by a boy from a rough family. It was a very similar situation to yours except it had been going on longer. Although a lovely kid he was miserable and hated school as a result. My friend eventually got it out of him what the problem was. Much to the child's mother's (friend's sister) disgust my friend and his father (child's grandfather) taught him how to throw a few punches (very, very basic) and told the lad that unless he hit this bully back this would go on forever. A few days later the bully tried it on, got hit in reply and two years later has never laid a finger on the nephew.

Whether you agree with it or not (my friend's sister begrudgingly admitted later that the men were right) this method will change the child's mentality from that of a victim to that of a person who refuses to let others mess up his life.

You owe it to your child to help him help himself. That is far, far more important than some principle that will get him hurt repeatedly. He will appreciate that far more in the long term than the teaching him to "turn the other cheek".

TheBlock

Apologies for dragging up an old thread but it has some relevance to my situation.

My Son who is gone 4 started school in September. He's used to being in creche with alot of kids his age and has had no problem settling in. He actually looks forward to school. He's what I would call a typicall boy full of life and likes the rough play you know Power Rangers and Justice League all that stuff and as he is an only child I am his play buddy and we would have play fights...the usual goody baddy thing.
The problem I have is that it appears he may be being too rough in school.
We recieved a note from his teacher yesterday requesting a meeting to discuss his "progress" in school and as any concernced parent would we made the appiontment for today and met with his teacher. It appears that our son is a bit rough with the other boys and has hit a particular boy on a couple of occasions which prompted the other boys parents to complain to the school. My wife was mortifed when the teacher told her what was happening, she hates the tought that other parents may possibly be questioning out parenting abilities. I tried to alleviate her fears by saying it's what boys do (at least it was when I was in school and I do know the difference between bullying and rough play)
I asked my son last night at bed time why he thought teacher wanted to see us and was he being silly in school and his reply was that he was playing heros with the other guys and that they were hitting him so he hit them back "Like you told me daddy" (This may be where the problem lies I told him to stand up for him self as he was being a little picked on in creche by some older boys).
I'm just looking for some advice on how to get him to calm down now that he is in "Big School" and to not be so rough with other kids. All opinions welcome.

PS I don't believe he is a bully and want to try and resolve this before he either becomes one or gets tarred as one.

bored and tired

block he sounds like a gorgeous energetic 4 year old jumping all around the place playing heroes and being a boy, it reminds me of my baby brother when he was little, they were allowed bring in their toy tractors and trailers during silage season, and the school left the grass grow long and for the last 2 months of school they would all be out there pretending to cut the silage and watching the tractors drive past the school before coming home and causing mayhem.

my advice is to speak to your son and say that games where you hit are not allowed in school. go back into the school, tell teacher that he was playing heroes with the other boys and didnt mean to be bold, that you have told him it is not ok and ask her or him to reiterate that playing heroes or any game where you hit is not allowed. they will usually understand, i had to speak to the school after i caught my daughter sneaking of the school bus to go to the park before school, she was 6, i was livid with her, needless to say when i told her teacher she wasnt pleased either, and gave the class a good talking to, then the principal came in and gave them another talking to, before she went into every class about it, and there was no more kids in the playground for months afterwards.

noby

It might be an idea to set up a play date with one or two of his friends from school. At least if there is rough play in your presence you will be able to instantly react to it, and point out what is and isn't acceptable behaviour for a big boy going to school.



Oh, and mods, I think this deserves a thread of it's own.