North-West prejudice and racial discrimination against foreign nationals ? ..

Paddy20

I am dismayed, at the prejudice against citizens of the E.U. in the North-West region.

At present IMHO the Polish citizens who are entitled to reside and work in the Irish Republic, are in my my experience being exploited in an inhumane manner by employers, landlords, and our so called 'community services'

For the establishment of a country whose citizens suffered discrimination throughout the world to allow this , is IMHO inexscusable.
.

What do you think ??

P.:cool:

muffler

They're good at cutting hair anyway Paddy especially the female of the species

Paddy20

muffler wrote:

They're good at cutting hair anyway Paddy especially the female of the species

Sorry muffler,

You may have meant that as a well meaning joke, but it only serves to illustrate your immature understading of the issue .

P. :cool:

Goodshape

I'm sure they exist, but I haven't met an open or out-going Polish person yet. There's plenty of 'foreign nationals' in our circle of friends at the moment, and others come and go, but never any Polish for some reason. They tend to be difficult to socialise with I think.

I was chatting with a Polish guy yesterday and the conversation was incredibly bleak. He described his situation as having absolutely no hopes for the future. Communism was sh*t and now he feels Poland has to pay for it. Didn't much like Ireland either.

Felt pretty sorry for him actually. And I certainly don't think they (or anyone - it's not just the Polish who are getting a hard time of it) deserve to be treated with any less respect than the rest of us.

Goodshape

Paddy20 wrote:

What the hell is going on here. It sems to me that those who have taken advantage of E.U. grants in Ireland. Want to keep it all for themselves, without sharing the advantages on a fair and equitable justifiablee basis. ?

What?

muffler

Paddy20, were you not in a barbers in Ballybofey recently and had your hair cut by a Polish girl. If that girl was being exploited then who was doing it? You by visiting the premises in the first instance.

Why did you not boycot the place then if you feel so strongly about it

Paddy20

muffler wrote:

Paddy20, were you not in a barbers in Ballybofey recently and had your hair cut by a Polish girl. If that girl was being exploited then who was doing it? You by visiting the premises in the first instance.

Why did you not boycot the place then if you feel so strongly about it

Sorry incorrect, I never go to the barbers. I cut my own hair .

P. :cool:

Paddy20

Goodshape wrote:

What?

Goodshape,

Sorry about that post. My mistake [One over the eight methinks ] I have now removed that post, and plead insanity .

P. :cool:

muffler

Paddy20 wrote:

Sorry incorrect, I never go to the barbers. I cut my own hair .

P. :cool:

Nope. You were in Harkins barbers. I dont know why you would not want to admit to this because after all you did have a long conversation with the polish girl Paddy.

People in glass houses and all that

Paddy20

muffler wrote:

Nope. You were in Harkins barbers. I dont know why you would not want to admit to this because after all you did have a long conversation with the polish girl Paddy.

People in glass houses and all that

muffler,

I am not joking or lying when I state the last time I was in a barbers was in 1999. Now I would be interested to know if someone is trying to pass themselves off as me, and why ?...

I have a brother who lives in the crossroads, and he has been mistaken for me in the past.

Please check your facts on this one ?.. I am concerned about this, therefore I am sending you a P.M.

P. :cool:

muffler

In the interest of fair play I will have to say that I am not sure that it was "our Paddy" that was trying to talk the ladies up in the barbers. This information came to me through a friend but he may have been mistaken about the name or person

Anyway, Im happy to clarify the situation

Paddy20

muffler wrote:

In the interest of fair play I will have to say that I am not sure that it was "our Paddy" that was trying to talk the ladies up in the barbers. This information came to me through a friend but he may have been mistaken about the name or person

Anyway, Im happy to clarify the situation

Can I respectfully suggest that you do clarify with your friend exactly who he was talking about , and then post a proper retraction of your statements that imply that I am a liar, as this partial retraction is insufficient.

P. :cool:

Goodshape

It's a discussion forum Paddy, not a national newspaper article.

No one's reputation is at stake here; bit of friendly banter from muffler, looks like he's made (and acknowledged making) a mistake. End of the issue, no?

I was sort of looking forward to discussing 'foreign nationals' (don't like that term for some reason) in the north west too.

Paddy20

Goodshape wrote:

It's a discussion forum Paddy, not a national newspaper article.

No one's reputation is at stake here; bit of friendly banter from muffler, looks like he's made (and acknowledged making) a mistake. End of the issue, no?

I was sort of looking forward to discussing 'foreign nationals' (don't like that term for some reason) in the north west too.

OK agreed, lets get back on topic,I totally agree the thread is more important, than a mistaken untruthful assumption and public statements by muffler, but I still expect an unreserved apology from muffler.Had I posted, mufflers untruthful statements I would have been banned instantly !

P. :cool:

Goodshape

Paddy20 wrote:

OK agreed, lets get back on topic,

\o/ hurray!

Can we get this place cleaned up a bit maybe?

(heh.. and never mind a separate Donegal forum, what about a 'North West Complaints' sub-forum instead? )

Paddy20

Goodshape wrote:

\o/ hurray!

Can we get this place cleaned up a bit maybe?

(heh.. and never mind a separate Donegal forum, what about a 'North West Complaints' sub-forum instead? )

Totally agreed, lets keep it in the family .

P. :cool:

Martyr

i can say that a polish friend of mine was working in a tyre company for about 3 weeks when he first came here.
obviously i can't name the company, but they operate in letterkenny town & the owner is well known. take a guess.

XXXXXX XXXX XXXXX

the man working there was only getting paid 100 euro..for 45-50 hours, sometimes more, per week.
now, if you can honestly say this is sufficient to survive on, you're crazy.

i wanted to do something, but what could i do? i contacted an authority, & they told me it could be 8-9 months before something could be done.

WTF? 8 to 9 months on 100 euro per week? :mad:

it so happens that another girl worked for 5 weeks in a newly established internet cafe in letterkenny & never got paid a cent for that.

she lived in a flat behind the premises & was exploited & whatever authorities she told, weren't interested.

another girl working in fast food outlet wasn't paid properly & was bullied by irish staff.

i've heard of mobile-brothels operating in letterkenny with foreign nationals as sex slaves..don't take my word for it, ask the guards who got stabbed last week in lower main street, that they forgot to mention..no, not the young man in killylastin, this is another man.

you wonder why polish people don't socialise? because of the way they're treated by irish, thats why, & who can blame them?

MANY MANY MANY so-called laws are being broken, for what they're worth...nothing
what good are these laws anyway politicians keep shouting about, when your authorities won't enforce them?

i talked to a man who knows alot about working conditions & laws in ireland, & he stated that it was easier to prosecute someone for abusing an animal, than it was an employer who abused a human being.

ireland is enjoying such good economic times, isn't it?
we love to think of ourselves as this great nation, many politicians travel the world & boast of our employment laws which aren't enforced.

nobody cares, if i'm being perfectly honest.

sure, loads will say "thats terrible" but won't actually do anything to stop it from happening again.

there are other cases of employers treating these people like animals.
ireland is racist as far as i'm concerned.

i'm ashamed to be irish, the way we treat these people is a disgrace.

jimmycrackcorm

The opening post was made without any qualifying reference to actual examples. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing what Paddy20 is saying to any extent whatsoever- but i'm curious where he draws his point from real life examples.

The mushroom industry has been abhorent by all accounts, and I'm sure we have all heard about the Gama turkish contruction workers pay scandal. I also heard today on a radio report how non-english speaking workers earn on average 20% less pay than english speaking counterparts.

However I don't think that this is a new phenomenen, just ask a certain well to do hairdresser how much his junior cutting staff get paid whether Irish or not.

Martyr

The opening post was made without any qualifying reference to actual examples. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing what Paddy20 is saying to any extent whatsoever- but i'm curious where he draws his point from real life examples.

maybe he can't give specific examples because of the silly legal stuff that goes with posting on this forum.

for example, he couldn't mention the fact that XXXXXXXX who produce rubbish drinks near his house, enjoy employing staff who have no choice but to work for less than minimum wage..perhaps the odd irish worker, here or there, but overall, they'll take on staff who work hard for nothing.

the same company is no stranger to breaking laws in his town, taking advantage of wimpy politicians & chicken-authorities when building extensions onto its facility & breaking normal health & safety/planning regulations...did you get the joke?

i said "regulations".. who the hell regulates them?
themselves?

you all know who i'm talking about.

my brother worked there for quite a while & he witnessed enough, so i know what goes on.

retalivity

*Sigh

Threads like this make me sad.
You think we've progressed so far then you're reminded we really arent.

nanook

i agree with retalivity, this is a sad situation that we can do this to other people.

Not long ago we were the abusee's and its very easily forgotten that we were the "non nationals" (absolutely hate the phrase) in other countries.

Remember the irish were once the scum of the world and would only take the jobs that others dispised, and now we treat those people how come here to make a better life for them and their families.

WunderFull

It's nauseating how many of our authorities don't care - no doubt Mr BusinessOwner can slip him something or a favour whereas who cares about Mr ForeignNational (also hate the phrase), he most likely can't forward Mr Politician's etc cause.
Name and shame authorities, I say.

shayser

Certain employers will exploit where and when they can. Nationality isn't a consideration, except, perhaps, where it is obvious that a certain nationality or nationalities are easier to exploit than others. At the moment, non-nationalists are easy targets. Often young, in a new country, struggling to establish themselves and ignorant of the law. They do not have the normal support structures an Irish person might have such as family/friends/easy access to another job should they leave/lose their existing job. They feel it's either put up or go back home.

I've seen/heard it quoted that non-nationals are filling a need in taking jobs that Irish people no longer want. In my opinion, it is truer to say that they are filling a DESIRE by the moneymen for cheap labour.

A business exists for one reason only. To make a profit. No other reason; not to provide employment, not to add to the economy, not contribute to society. While many have scruples, increasingly more do not. Smaller wages equal more profit. Only when pulled up by the law, which can only exist in response to a perceived injustice and tends to come into existence only after serious and prolonged injustice, will employers cease exploitation... and this is only true where the law is actually just and applied. This is a simple analysis. In reality, we have politics and subversion which affects everything including the employer/employee/authority relationships.They will take their slap on the wrist and think up another method to increase profit.

And why should they not, many will argue? We live in a capitalist society, which by it's nature, it discriminatory and has "casualties". It is the society we chose.

Paddy20

shayser wrote:

Certain employers will exploit where and when they can. Nationality isn't a consideration, except, perhaps, where it is obvious that a certain nationality or nationalities are easier to exploit than others. At the moment, non-nationalists are easy targets. Often young, in a new country, struggling to establish themselves and ignorant of the law. They do not have the normal support structures an Irish person might have such as family/friends/easy access to another job should they leave/lose their existing job. They feel it's either put up or go back home.

I've seen/heard it quoted that non-nationals are filling a need in taking jobs that Irish people no longer want. In my opinion, it is truer to say that they are filling a DESIRE by the moneymen for cheap labour.

A business exists for one reason only. To make a profit. No other reason; not to provide employment, not to add to the economy, not contribute to society. While many have scruples, increasingly more do not. Smaller wages equal more profit. Only when pulled up by the law, which can only exist in response to a perceived injustice and tends to come into existence only after serious and prolonged injustice, will employers cease exploitation... and this is only true where the law is actually just and applied. This is a simple analysis. In reality, we have politics and subversion which affects everything including the employer/employee/authority relationships.They will take their slap on the wrist and think up another method to increase profit.

And why should they not, many will argue? We live in a capitalist society, which by it's nature, it discriminatory and has "casualties". It is the society we chose.

Very well expressed 'shayser'

P. :cool:

smashey

Paddy20 wrote:

Very well expressed 'shayser'

P. :cool:

Paddy,

While there is no doubt that foreign nationals are exploited here, big business will travel to their own country to exploit them. Look at Adria and Fruit of the Loom for example. Production cost are too high here so they go where it is cheaper.

Civilian_Target

retalivity wrote:

*Sigh

Threads like this make me sad.
You think we've progressed so far then you're reminded we really arent.

Yeah, exactly. What is the big deal here? They're just from a different country, that's all. They can look after themselves, and there's absolutely no reason to treat them differently so long as they don't treat you differently.

Paddy20

smashey wrote:

Paddy,

While there is no doubt that foreign nationals are exploited here, big business will travel to their own country to exploit them. Look at Adria and Fruit of the Loom for example. Production cost are too high here so they go where it is cheaper.

As a socialist I say good bloody riddance, to them. We will eventually be better off without them.

P. :cool:

smashey

Paddy20 wrote:

As a socialist I say good bloody riddance, to them. We will eventually be better off without them.

P. :cool:

Socialism has really worked in any country that had it. :rolleyes:

il gatto

You can have socialist policies within a capitalist state. Unfortunately, those who would benefit have no power/pull to implement them, and often vote like sheep because Bertie's done a great job on the economy, often having gained next to nothing from the countries boom.
With regards to exploitation of foreign nationals, I believe that a large porportion of Irish employers would exploit anyone, should the opportunity arrise. Locals get wise to who's a cowboy with regards to wages and conditions, and have years to get to know them before they ever leave school. When you're fresh off the boat, so to speak, you have no idea who is a decent, law abiding employer and who's not. You're a long way from home, a poor grasp of the language and no family/friends support structure. You cling to whatever job is enabling you to survive. At least for a while. That makes it easy for the unscrupulous to prey on them.
Unfortunately, many Irish workers are being short changed and nothing is being done for them either. How many (myself included) have worked unsocial hours without any financial reward over and above a regular time/day? How many never receive a day off in lieu or extra pay when a bank holiday fell on they're regular day off? How many don't get all their holidays or sick days? Or pay increases as they're due? Or don't get holiday pay at all? It happens, and it happens regularly, and is being overlooked in a wash of money that others are seeing.
Many people are ashamed to tell people how little they're paid, or how poorly their employer treats them, as they feels it makes them look weak or pathetic. This means employers get away with abusing the laws they should be bound to. Confronting an employer rarely works either as you'll be either fired or driven out by bullying and most people don't know how to deal with that legally, can't afford to let it happen, or don't see that course as being worth their while.
The laws are there so people shouldn't have to fight for what they're owed. But yet again, another ream of Irish laws is being ignored and uninforced. Not unusually to the huge benefit of wealthy business people.

jimmycrackcorm

Paddy20 wrote:

As a socialist I say good bloody riddance, to them. We will eventually be better off without them.

P. :cool:

I do recall that Fruit of the Loom was responsible for a mini-baby boom around Buncrana some years ago. It wasn't called Fruit of the Womb for nothing....