views on irish americans

crackernutz

what's the general view from your side of the pond. OH btw my first post here..howdy from texas.

Ciaran500

Are you really an Irish American? What makes you part Irish?

bluto63

Sorry, but if your great great great granfather or someone came over during the famine then you're not Irish. That's my view.

Ruu_Old

bluto63 wrote:

Sorry, but if your great great great granfather or someone came over during the famine then you're not Irish. That's my view.

Agreed. I get very annoyed at people who claim to be Irish because they support the Boston Celtics (not too common thank god but I've heard it a few times) or people who say "I'm x% Irish". Welcome to the boards btw OP. Enjoy yourself.

crackernutz

some of the families here can trace there roots back thousands of yrs in eire. so because they got displaced and have lived in another land for the past 100 yrs or so they aren't irish. i agree they aren't irish persay living in Ireland, but they are definately irish americans. just like there are italian americans,german americans etc, all of the "whites" trace our ancenstry back to europe and the stock has been pure in most cases

Gandhi

Most of the Irish-Americans that I have come across have been sound. It is rare to come across the stereotypical "I know more about Ireland than you guys who stepped off the plain five minutes ago because my great-uncle was from County Murphy". Don't know why some of the other guys are being so hostile.

What part of TX are you in? I'm from County Cork but live in Philly. How's about dem Cowboys a few weeks back???

Ciaran500

crackernutz wrote:

some of the families here can trace there roots back thousands of yrs in eire. so because they got displaced and have lived in another land for the past 100 yrs or so they aren't irish. i agree they aren't irish persay living in Ireland, but they are definately irish americans. just like there are italian americans,german americans etc, all of the "whites" trace our ancenstry back to europe and the stock has been pure in most cases

But you are American, you were born there and lived your whole life there. We're all African if you want to trace our roots back far enough.

crackernutz

Gandhi wrote:

Most of the Irish-Americans that I have come across have been sound. It is rare to come across the stereotypical "I know more about Ireland than you guys who stepped off the plain five minutes ago because my great-uncle was from County Murphy". Don't know why some of the other guys are being so hostile.

What part of TX are you in? I'm from County Cork but live in Philly. How's about dem Cowboys a few weeks back???

yeah most people could give a crap less ,but it still gives us a sense of pride to know where we came from. a man not knowing where he came from has no pride. I'm in west texas in the middle of no where; not a huge dallas cowboys fan more into college football. :cool:

crackernutz

Ciaran500 wrote:

But you are American, you were born there and lived your whole life there. We're all African if you want to trace our roots back far enough.

just living in ireland doesn't mean irish to many irish americans. it's the culture,language,everything. You go into full irish communities here in the states and literally nothing has changed. like you can go to german towns in texas and they speak german,eat german food. they 've just lived like that the whole time since their ancestors immigrated. it's pretty cool actually

NeiloMac

So can you speak Irish?

Listening to Trad does not make you Irish,

There seems to be an identity crisis with American, You all seem to need to be lumped in as an Ethnic group, Why?

If you want to be Irish fine, and to be honest at present are culture follows your the American, So your an American trying to be Irish who is trying to be American, Makes sense,

Ciaran500

crackernutz wrote:

just living in ireland doesn't mean irish to many irish americans. it's the culture,language,everything. You go into full irish communities here in the states and literally nothing has changed. like you can go to german towns in texas and they speak german,eat german food. they 've just lived like that the whole time since their ancestors immigrated. it's pretty cool actually

So if someone goes and live in this places and takes in the culture, language, everything they get to use an Irish suffix on their nationality?

Do you live in one of these "full irish communities" btw?

Hub

Who cares? If someone claims to be Irish, let them. When Im in another country I get people saying their Irish because thier grandmother is from whatever in Ireland. Ok they're not really Irish

They tell me thy've been to ireland once and think its the most amazing country in the world...so...let them think that I say

FatherTed

When people in the US or wherever say that they are "Irish", they don't really mean it as "I have just as much Irish-ness as you, Paddy Murphy from Skibereen". It is meant as they are of Irish descent, or in other words, Irish American. Consider it as lost in translation.

Also, must you be born in Ireland to be considered Irish?

The Sweeper

crackernutz wrote:

...and the stock has been pure in most cases.

What does that mean?

Benedict XVI

America is a nation made up of immigrants and people use their ethnic background to distinguish themselves from others.
They are American firsts but within America they are Irish, German, Korean etc.
I don't think any Irish Americans claim to be Irish to the same degree as people born and living here, but they, and other American, do claim their heritage to distinguish themselves for other ethnic groups.

You will see the same happening here is 100 years when you have Polish Irish, Brazilian Irish etc.

Welcome crackernutz

crackernutz

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

What does that mean?

that in those communities they have only bred with other irish etc. so you can tell who is and who ain't. I can always tell by the size and shape of their heads. that's why immigration to european counties is such a big issue. there will be no sense of cultural pride at all. we will all be a one world government with light brown skin.

Ajos

crackernutz wrote:

that in those communities they have only bred with other irish etc. so you can tell who is and who ain't. I can always tell by the size and shape of their heads. that's why immigration to european counties is such a big issue. there will be no sense of cultural pride at all. we will all be a one world government with light brown skin.

Oh no! How awful! :eek:

In my experience Irish Americans tend to be much more racist than actual Irish people, which is really saying something. Here's what Bernadette Devlin had to say about it.

"I was not very long there until, like water, I found my own level. 'My people' — the people who know about oppression, discrimination, prejudice, poverty and the frustration and despair that they produce — were not Irish Americans. They were black, Puerto Rican, Chicano. And those who were supposed to be 'my people', the Irish Americans who know about English misrule and the Famine and supported the civil-rights movement at home, and knew that Partition and England were the cause of the problem, looked and sounded to me like Orangemen. They said exactly the same things about blacks that the loyalists said about us at home. In New York, I was given the key to the city by the mayor, an honour not to be sneezed at. I gave it to the Black Panthers."

crackernutz

Ajos wrote:

Oh no! How awful! :eek:

In my experience Irish Americans tend to be much more racist than actual Irish people, which is really saying something. Here's what Bernadette Devlin had to say about it.

yeah that's exactly who I'd give the key to, do you have any idea how many deaths they are responsible for. why not put your head on a choppin block while your at it

Ajos

Well, I don't have much in common with Bernadette Devlin politcally, but I do feel that it's an interesting observation given the topic of the thread. Irish American history is bifurcated severely from actual Irish history. I imagine that those "full Irish communities" you speak have have little or nothing in common with Ireland as it is today.

I should say that I know a bunch of really cool Irish Americans, who use the term exactly as FatherTed describes it above. But there are the others.

Tall Tom

Gandhi wrote:

Most of the Irish-Americans that I have come across have been sound. It is rare to come across the stereotypical "I know more about Ireland than you guys who stepped off the plain five minutes ago because my great-uncle was from County Murphy". Don't know why some of the other guys are being so hostile.

What part of TX are you in? I'm from County Cork but live in Philly. How's about dem Cowboys a few weeks back???

What part of Philly are you in? :eek: I'm in Broomall, Delaware County.

My dad is from Co. Mayo and mom is from Co. Donegal (my favorite part of Irl)


My dad and uncles used to call me a Narrowback growing up here in the States.

crackernutz

Ajos wrote:

Well, I don't have much in common with Bernadette Devlin politcally, but I do feel that it's an interesting observation given the topic of the thread. Irish American history is bifurcated severely from actual Irish history. I imagine that those "full Irish communities" you speak have have little or nothing in common with Ireland as it is today.

I should say that I know a bunch of really cool Irish Americans, who use the term exactly as FatherTed describes it above. But there are the others.

Most of the irish that came to the United States were poor and could not survive in Ireland hence the reason that immigrated. So the ones that are still in Ireland today came from the people that could afford to stay the "rich Irish" so yes your right i doubt the two classes have nothing in common, the common irish came to the states and your right the rich upperclass irish stayed and sided with english. So most of the irish in ireland today came from those rich irish, that would have nothing in common with us irish americans that came from the common working man.

Gandhi

Tall Tom wrote:

What part of Philly are you in? :eek: I'm in Broomall, Delaware County.

My dad is from Co. Mayo and mom is from Co. Donegal (my favorite part of Irl)

My dad and uncles used to call me a Narrowback growing up here in the States.

Hi Tom,

I live in East Falls - unlike the other 99% of the Irish in Philly who are out in Delco with you.

Some of the FOB Irish still call the first-gen lads narrowbacks, even though most of the Irish coming out are now accountants and software engineers, who wouldn't know a hard days work on a spud farm from sushi night at a martini bar.

crackernutz

I was in the ROI about ten years ago and spent quite a bit of time in the pubs. I noticed that the Irish whom I met there had a sort of natural, easy going, and almost unconscious Irish national identity. I also noticed that, time and again, the Irish there identify much more strongly with perceived "victims" than with perceived "oppressors", in almost any political discussion. Of course, this is due to their historical experience under the English, combined with the almost complete ethnic homogeneity in which they live, which makes them sensitive to perceived injustice and also insulates them from reality. Irish Americans, on the other hand, have been exposed to reality and thus harbor fewer illusions.

I did meet one Irishman there who asked in a tone expecting an affirmative, whether if Puerto Ricans were in fact a "nuissance". Very much so, I told him.

Saruman

I have a LOT of experience with Irish Americans.. and by that i mean i can count them in the hundreds! In fact im married to one.. Her name was O' Brien (red hair too!) however now she is a Gray so she seems less Irish.. though her accent is soft and she has some kind of irish lilt to her now. Except when she talks to other americans and then she sounds just like them.

Anyway the way i see it is simply.. if you are born in Ireland and then leave and have very little recollection of Ireland.. you are not Irish.. you are American or Australian or whatever nationality you became when you moved.

If your family in the past moved to the US then they are American... however i would consider them "Of Irish decent" and as long as they do not claim to actually "Be Irish" then im fine with that. I myself am Irish with English and Scottish decent, Just like most on this Island who did not immigrate in the past has some British in them. Perhaps because of the past we are less likely to go around saying im part English and so when others say "im part Irish" its strange to us??

Anyway im fine with Irish Americans.

Ajos

crackernutz wrote:

Most of the irish that came to the United States were poor and could not survive in Ireland hence the reason that immigrated. So the ones that are still in Ireland today came from the people that could afford to stay the "rich Irish" so yes your right i doubt the two classes have nothing in common, the common irish came to the states and your right the rich upperclass irish stayed and sided with english. So most of the irish in ireland today came from those rich irish, that would have nothing in common with us irish americans that came from the common working man.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's complete bullsh*t.

Tall Tom

Gandhi wrote:

Hi Tom,

I live in East Falls - unlike the other 99% of the Irish in Philly who are out in Delco with you.

Some of the FOB Irish still call the first-gen lads narrowbacks, even though most of the Irish coming out are now accountants and software engineers, who wouldn't know a hard days work on a spud farm from sushi night at a martini bar.

East Falls is pretty nice. It seems like Delco is the home for most of the Donegal immigrants.

As a kid, I spent many summers on the my mothers family's farm in Donegal and it was a great experience to thatch the hay, dig for spuds, milk the cows, fetch water from the well, etc.....

So how do you like Philly so far? How long have you been here? Have you been to any of the Balls at the Irish Centre in Germantown yet?

Saruman

crackernutz wrote:

Most of the irish that came to the United States were poor and could not survive in Ireland hence the reason that immigrated. So the ones that are still in Ireland today came from the people that could afford to stay the "rich Irish" so yes your right i doubt the two classes have nothing in common, the common irish came to the states and your right the rich upperclass irish stayed and sided with english. So most of the irish in ireland today came from those rich irish, that would have nothing in common with us irish americans that came from the common working man.

OR.... The ones that left were the rich ones... i mean it cant have been cheap getting a ticket on Titanic So the ones left were too poor to do anything about their situation!!

Somehow i doubt its in any way clearcut. Some people left, some people stayed... simple as that.

Ajos

Actually, I'm sorry. That was uncalled for. What I mean is that that's typical Irish American mythmaking and self-aggrandizement. "The rich upperclass Irish stayed and sided with the English". Do you really think that that describes the ancestors of everybody in Ireland today? And don't tell me "I'm right" and then agree with something completely different to what I said.

crackernutz

Ajos wrote:

Actually, I'm sorry. That was uncalled for. What I mean is that that's typical Irish American mythmaking and self-aggrandizement. "The rich upperclass Irish stayed and sided with the English". Do you really think that that describes the ancestors of everybody in Ireland today? And don't tell me "I'm right" and then agree with something completely different to what I said.

I don't think they had the luxory of ships like the Titanic, more like british coffin ships. I'm sure not everybody in Ireland today is from rich irish that stayed ie. immigration from afica,england,scotland,mars,themoon etc.

Ajos

crackernutz wrote:

I don't think they had the luxory of ships like the Titanic, more like british coffin ships. I'm sure not everybody in Ireland today is from rich irish that stayed ie. immigration from afica,england,scotland,mars,themoon etc.

Those moon guys are really lazy. They just don't know how to work, lie around all day expecting handouts...

iguana

crackernutz wrote:

So the ones that are still in Ireland today came from the people that could afford to stay the "rich Irish" so yes your right i doubt the two classes have nothing in common, the common irish came to the states and your right the rich upperclass irish stayed and sided with english. So most of the irish in ireland today came from those rich irish, that would have nothing in common with us irish americans that came from the common working man.

Um so the malnutrion that was rife in this country even throughout the 60's was because of the fad dieting of the middle-classes. I see. And the Irish who fought the English in the war of Independance were doing it as part of some secret English plot. I find your posts highly illuminating and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Or you could try looking for facts instead of nonsensical conjecture.

crackernutz wrote:

I did meet one Irishman there who asked in a tone expecting an affirmative, whether if Puerto Ricans were in fact a "nuissance". Very much so, I told him.

Was this an attemp at irony or are you saying that as someone who goes to great pains to emphasise his belonging to an immigrant community you still consider a different immigrant community to be a nuisance?

I'm Irish and so is my husband. Born in Ireland, to Irish parents with Irish parents. However we both live in the UK and if we have children here and they grow up here then I'm sure that they will be more English than Irish despite my background. And if they stay here and have children here, then they will be English with Irish grandparents. And if my grandchildren raise their children here then they will be English, full stop.

If you are entitled to neither an Irish passport or to play on the national football team then you are not Irish. Of Irish descent sure, but we have so many ancestors, eventually we just are what we are.:rolleyes: