Differences between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael

SamKirker

Hey folks,

I'm a member of the British Conservative Party in London and will soon be moving to Dublin. I want to remain involved in political activism and am trying to suss out the different political parties here. Other Tories seem split in who I should align myself with. Basically I can't see much of a difference between FF and FG. Could anyone tell me what the fundamental differences are? What party would be closest to the Conservatives?

Thanks a lot for your help, guys! It's nice to meet you all and I can't wait to come to your great country.

Akrasia

hehe, this ought to be good.


FF "A tory? We don't want to be associated with them, You should Join FG"

FG "Feck off, we don't want him either"

(no personal offence intended)

In reality, there is very very little difference between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael. The only substantive difference is that FF have been in power for the last decade and so everyone is aware of all the major flaws in their policies, where as FG have been in opposition, so the Irish public don't believe they even have any policies.

Sgt. Sensible

Well in the European Parliament

FG are allied with Germany's CDU, Berlusconi's Forza Italia, and France's UMP.

FF are allied with Italy's 'post fascist' National Alliance, Denmark's anti-immigration Danish People's Party, and Poland's Catholic church supporting, anti drug legalisation, anti abortion and anti gay rights Law And Justice Party.

So take your pick.

Dirk Gently

I reckon FG or the PD's would be the closest match to the British Conservative Party.

The difference between FF and FG is that FF is in power. I suppose FG would be the more conservative party but in reality there’s not much to choose between them, mostly because FG are in opposition and nobody really knows what they would do different because I don't think FG know themselves. PD's are a free market all the way, capitalism is God kind of party.

Do Ireland a favour and don't join any of them. Although to be honest I can’t even recommend a decent alternative left of the above parties. ( not that I would imagine you would be looking left anyway)

Dirk Gently

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

Well in the European Parliament

I wouldn't pay too much attention to those euro alliances. Plenty of vastly differt parties belong to the same euro groupings. Last time I looked Europe was a socialist paradise and Tony blair was leading the socialist charge. Reality is slightly different.

Sgt. Sensible

clown bag wrote:

I wouldn't pay too much attention to those euro alliances. Plenty of vastly differt parties belong to the same euro groupings. Last time I looked Europe was a socialist paradise and Tony blair was leading the socialist charge. Reality is slightly different.

I would've thought that FF would be in the same grouping as FG but they probably hate each other too much.

The PDs are more liberal and less nationalist than the tories on some issues. That's the only nice thing I'll say about the scum ever.

flogen

SamKirker wrote:

Hey folks,

I'm a member of the British Conservative Party in London and will soon be moving to Dublin. I want to remain involved in political activism and am trying to suss out the different political parties here. Other Tories seem split in who I should align myself with. Basically I can't see much of a difference between FF and FG. Could anyone tell me what the fundamental differences are? What party would be closest to the Conservatives?

Thanks a lot for your help, guys! It's nice to meet you all and I can't wait to come to your great country.

I suppose the real question here is, what kind of Conservative are you? I mean, the Cameron Conservatives are looking pretty left-wing to me

FF are supposed to be centre-left but are generally more to the centre, or even centre-right (partly due to their marriage to the Progressive Democrats, who seem to follow a line closer to more traditional Conservative thinking). FG are supposed to be centre-right but will probably be dragged to the centre by their left-wing buddies in the Labour and Green parties.
The PD's would probably be the closest to the Conservatives; they were originally formed on liberal grounds such as a pro-contraception and pro-divorce but their economic liberalism brings them more to the right (pro privatisation etc.)
FG cannot afford to be too right wing because there has never been a great amount of right-wing support in Ireland, unlike England.
That said the country is shifting in that direction and has been for some time now.

Sgt. Sensible

flogen wrote:

FG cannot afford to be too right wing because there has never been a great amount of right-wing support in Ireland, unlike England.

That's simply not true. The church had an unbelievable amount of power until very recently, and even now who runs the elite schools? And what country provided more volunteers than anyone else for Franco in the Spanish Civil War? One can point to the ludicrously high tax rates of the past but in truth there has never been a 'left' in Ireland since 1913. To pretend otherwise or to pretend that Ireland was anyway 'liberal' in the universally accepted sense of the word is mere intellectual fraud and conceit. Jaysus, in school we used to pass around the script of The Life Of Brian and act out the parts ourselves because the film itself was banned. It was like Iran or something.

dRNk SAnTA

I think its fair to say that all the main political parties are hovering around the centre, at the moment.

It's easy to point to the pd's as being most like the UK conservatives, however I do think that even the pd's are more liberal in their social policies than the Conservatives.

As regards FG and FF, well, I really don't know if there is a difference. FG's problem is that nobody knows what they're about anymore.

Mad Finn

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

And what country provided more volunteers than anyone else for Franco in the Spanish Civil War?

Irish Blueshirts in Franco's Army: 700 (approx)

Italian troops in Franco's Army: 60,000 (approx)


Any advance on 60,000?

Sgt. Sensible

Mad Finn wrote:

Irish Blueshirts in Franco's Army: 700 (approx)

Italian troops in Franco's Army: 60,000 (approx)


Any advance on 60,000?

The Italian troops were regular army, not volunteers. What I meant to say was that Ireland was the only country that provided more volunteers for Franco than for the government side. Sorry for confusion. In their defence, they were probably ignorant of Spanish politics but surely they must have realised they were fighting for monarchy and rich landowners.

MontgomeryClift

There is no real difference between FF and FG. They pretend to be separate and incompatible so that one or the other of them must be a part of any government that's formed.

To me, both parties are populist and near the centre. There is no huge ideological difference between them. But that's true of the Conservatives and New Labour in England, the Democrats and Republicans in the USA etc. etc. In many countries, you don'tget some classic clash of ideaologies, more of figures. I think FF have had a pretty excellent record on the economy and the North, those issues matter to me, I will vote for them. I may well vote for FG too (lower preferences of course) on the basis that I think they would also do a good enough job on either.

Diogenes

SamKirker wrote:

Hey folks,

I'm a member of the British Conservative Party in London and will soon be moving to Dublin. I want to remain involved in political activism and am trying to suss out the different political parties here. Other Tories seem split in who I should align myself with. Basically I can't see much of a difference between FF and FG. Could anyone tell me what the fundamental differences are? What party would be closest to the Conservatives?

Okay seriously twice in one day if this is an actual different poster I'm getting concerned at the influx of British Tory party members flooding the country

Zebra3

I'd see the PD's as being fairly Thatcherite, if that's still an in Tory thing....

Capt'n Midnight

FF are populist , in that they will pomise tax cuts , remove rates, or whatever they feel will get them elected. Linked to construction industry and big business more than the others. They are like the Tories in having more allegations of corruption, we have far laxer laws than the UK on that sort of stuff,

the libel laws mean that satirical political programs like " have I got news for you" and "spitting image" are so watered down as to be nearly unwatchable. "Halls pictorial weekly" > "scrap saturday" > "bull island" > "the panel"
Dara Ó Briain on "Mock the week" gets away with stuff over there that he could not on "the panel" or "don't feed the gondolas" over here. So comparing media reports here and the UK misses a lot.

FG do the same to a lesser extent.

The PD's are people who left FF because of leadership conflicts / ethical considerations, and picked up some of the FG vote. They are have dropped all pretentions to their original slogan of "high standards in high places".

is there a family tree of irish politics out there anyone to show how few differences there are ?

Capt'n Midnight

oops forgot the big difference

FF voters will continue to vote for/defend their parties "good name" despite any evidence to the contrary. And they have a much larger core vote than any other party that doesn't seem to change regardless of what happens.

most of our parties are centre right (even labour) and it's shades of grey

Funjunkie

SamKirker wrote: »

Hey folks,

I'm a member of the British Conservative Party in London and will soon be moving to Dublin. I want to remain involved in political activism and am trying to suss out the different political parties here. Other Tories seem split in who I should align myself with. Basically I can't see much of a difference between FF and FG. Could anyone tell me what the fundamental differences are? What party would be closest to the Conservatives?

Thanks a lot for your help, guys! It's nice to meet you all and I can't wait to come to your great country.

I don't believe you. I think you are a spotty student trying to settle a bet

Tail Wagger

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

oops forgot the big difference

FF voters will continue to vote for/defend their parties "good name" despite any evidence to the contrary. And they have a much larger core vote than any other party that doesn't seem to change regardless of what happens.

most of our parties are centre right (even labour) and it's shades of grey

You must be Eamon Gilmore incognito!...Vote Labor!

Liam Byrne

FF are the party that fuelled the boom and ignored the warnings, and they also defend the indefensible when it comes to their members being caught rotten doing anything dodgy (or, as is often the case, not doing anything) - basically, there seems to be 100% loyalty all the way, even to members who deserve to be forced to resign, and probably would be in the UK, given recent stories from there.

FG are the main alternative, and while they have shown themselves to be less prone to corruption (disowning their highest profile corrupt member). They also appear to be more level headed, and less "win at all costs", and as a result the fact remains that they remain a largely untested force, as a large section of the public vote for FF no matter what that party puts them through.

Capt'n Midnight

IBTL


4 years later

PD's are gone now
Greens are now seen as collaborators

other than that it's business as usual and all parties are still fairly close,

anymore

SamKirker wrote: »

Hey folks,

I'm a member of the British Conservative Party in London and will soon be moving to Dublin. I want to remain involved in political activism and am trying to suss out the different political parties here. Other Tories seem split in who I should align myself with. Basically I can't see much of a difference between FF and FG. Could anyone tell me what the fundamental differences are? What party would be closest to the Conservatives?

Thanks a lot for your help, guys! It's nice to meet you all and I can't wait to come to your great country.

Let me see which Irish party is fondest of taking huge dollops of money from ' sponsors' and allowing them to write the party's policies ?
Ah, that would be FF. You should feel very comfortable with FF and like the Tories, FF wont be in Government after the next election - just like the Tories.

spurious

FF make promises they do not keep and will do anything to get into power.
FG will do anything to get into power and make promises they do not keep.


They are both centre-right conservative parties who have successfully conned people here for years that there is any political difference between them.

ei.sdraob

Deleted User wrote: »

I think FF have had a pretty excellent record on the economy and the North, those issues matter to me, I will vote for them.

wait what :eek:

edit: just noticed the date of that post in 2006... damn you whoever bumped this up

gosplan

No way do I believe the OP.

Anyway FWIW, they're the same but Fianna Fail are just better at getting elected. Essentially, they're one big election machine with no distinct policy bar whatever goes down best with the voters at any time. I guess they're somwhere around centre right but IMO Fianna Fail are basically anything the people want them to be ... e.g. 'I'm a socialist' - Bertie.

scr123

In the 2008 US election I came across three separate interviews of Fine Gael TD's being asked who they would for vote and they all said McCain. Initially this surprised but when I thought about it I said yes they would. Our right wing numbers isnt large but I think its fair to say they would be FG voters. The neoliberals would have their home in FG. The tough law and order brigade would be FG. The right wing religious would be FG. The pro rejoin the Commonwealth would be FG. The origins of FG are are in the 1930's when a certain element in Irish society decorated themselves in a particular colour shirt.
I would say there is huge differences between FG and not only FF but all other particular political leanings. In fact it would be an interesting event if FG ever became a single party government

irishh_bob

gosplan wrote: »

No way do I believe the OP.

Anyway FWIW, they're the same but Fianna Fail are just better at getting elected. Essentially, they're one big election machine with no distinct policy bar whatever goes down best with the voters at any time. I guess they're somwhere around centre right but IMO Fianna Fail are basically anything the people want them to be ... e.g. 'I'm a socialist' - Bertie.

bertie was a socilist , his socilist policys have us where we are now

irishh_bob

scr123 wrote: »

In the 2008 US election I came across three separate interviews of Fine Gael TD's being asked who they would for vote and they all said McCain. Initially this surprised but when I thought about it I said yes they would. Our right wing numbers isnt large but I think its fair to say they would be FG voters. The neoliberals would have their home in FG. The tough law and order brigade would be FG. The right wing religious would be FG. The pro rejoin the Commonwealth would be FG. The origins of FG are are in the 1930's when a certain element in Irish society decorated themselves in a particular colour shirt.
I would say there is huge differences between FG and not only FF but all other particular political leanings. In fact it would be an interesting event if FG ever became a single party government

i dont remember any fine gael td,s being asked in interviews which american presidential canditiate they would vote for , i do however recall a few commentators saying mc cain would be better for ireland as he would be less likely to bring in protectionist trade measures , republican presidents tend to be better for us here so imagine that may have influenced the fine gael td,s thinking , the rest of your post is a stereotyical anti fine gael diatribe , oh and the religous right in ireland ( if thier is such a thing ) would tend to vote fianna fail as fianna fail were always ( unofficially ) the party of the catholic church

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

Our right wing numbers isnt large but I think its fair to say they would be FG voters.

Proof of this ?

scr123 wrote: »

The neoliberals would have their home in FG.

The right wing religious would be FG.

Proof of this ? Because they would seem to be mututally exclusive to me.

And it would also appear to me that only "right wing religous nuts" would land the State with a compensation bill for religious-based sickos.

scr123 wrote: »

The tough law and order brigade would be FG.

Nothing wrong with this in my book. Stuff like jailing con-men (even if they are corrupt ex-Taoisigh) and implementing the zero-tolerance that FF promised and failed to deliver would be a massive improvement.

scr123 wrote: »

The pro rejoin the Commonwealth would be FG.

Have never heard this expressed. Links / proof ?

scr123 wrote: »

I would say there is huge differences between FG and not only FF but all other particular political leanings. In fact it would be an interesting event if FG ever became a single party government

Interesting......and a massive improvement.

But aside from that, do you have any basis for typing most of the above ? Because - while I'm not an FG supporter and so wouldn't be privy to everything they've ever said - a lot of the above is news to me.

PomBear

There are more than 2 parties in this country may I point out, true most other options being leftist which wouldn't suit the posters but there are alternatives

rightwingdub

scr123 wrote: »

In the 2008 US election I came across three separate interviews of Fine Gael TD's being asked who they would for vote and they all said McCain. Initially this surprised but when I thought about it I said yes they would. Our right wing numbers isnt large but I think its fair to say they would be FG voters. The neoliberals would have their home in FG. The tough law and order brigade would be FG. The right wing religious would be FG. The pro rejoin the Commonwealth would be FG. The origins of FG are are in the 1930's when a certain element in Irish society decorated themselves in a particular colour shirt.
I would say there is huge differences between FG and not only FF but all other particular political leanings. In fact it would be an interesting event if FG ever became a single party government

No difference between the two parties they are both populist partieas who try to offend as few people as possible, both parties don't have any ideological beliefs, Kenny doesn't stand for anything accept worrying whether he'll offend Labour, I would actually support a Fianna Fail-Fine Gael national government, we need a proper centre left/ centre right political divide in this country.

Tail Wagger

PomBear wrote: »

There are more than 2 parties in this country may I point out, true most other options being leftist which wouldn't suit the posters but there are alternatives

Is this a coming up next week, Part Two Answer?
Put us out of our misery, Who else?

goose2005

[QUOTE=scr123;64906756 The origins of FG are are in the 1930's when a certain element in Irish society decorated themselves in a particular colour shirt.[/QUOTE]

It really isn't. Most of its original members were Cumann na nGaedheal (formerly pro-Treaty FF), with a few from the National Centre Party and a few Blueshirts.

BluntGuy

rightwingdub wrote: »

I would actually support a Fianna Fail-Fine Gael national government

I would support this only to showcase how similar the two parties are, and to show how they would both do more-or-less the same for both our society and economy (very little), then perhaps with their flaws highlighted, some sort of decent opposition to the annoyingly comfortable centre-right, sell-out-our-nation crap might emerge.

Otherwise elections will continue to be more or less a case of flipping a coin which has "heads" on both sides.

rightwingdub

BluntGuy wrote: »

I would support this only to showcase how similar the two parties are, and to show how they would both do more-or-less the same for both our society and economy (very little), then perhaps with their flaws highlighted, some sort of decent opposition to the annoyingly comfortable centre-right, sell-out-our-nation crap might emerge.

Otherwise elections will continue to be more or less a case of flipping a coin which has "heads" on both sides.

How about a left wing merger of Sinn Fein and Labour, a centre right merger of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael would be needed as well. It would finally consign outdated civil war politics to the asheap of history.

kmhenry

Fine Gael for definite. FF really only dominated the centre ground even with their alliance with the PDs. Even though the PDs and the economic orthodoxy of the Western world influenced FF policy over recent years, FF couldn't be described as a Tory-lite party. They're more like New Labour actually to be honest (excluding their tendency to affiliate themselves more with the Irish conservative psyche as a part of their populist history).

Looking back in history FG seems to have been economically conservative and relatively socially conservative since its inception. I know Garret Fitzgerald and the Just Society programmes would say otherwise but sure the British Tories dabbled in Social Democracy themselves in the 60s. FG have always had to change their political direction if it looked as if the more populist FF were going in their direction or, alternatively, when they had to organisae Coalitions with Labour.

All in all though I would say Fine Gael would be what you're looking for.

PeterIanStaker

FF - your grandad got shot durin de Civvil Waur and survived/died (delete as appropriate)

FG - your grandad got shot durin de Civvil Waur and survived/died (delete as appropriate)

UsernameInUse

SamKirker wrote: »

Hey folks,

I'm a member of the British Conservative Party in London and will soon be moving to Dublin. I want to remain involved in political activism and am trying to suss out the different political parties here. Other Tories seem split in who I should align myself with. Basically I can't see much of a difference between FF and FG. Could anyone tell me what the fundamental differences are? What party would be closest to the Conservatives?

Thanks a lot for your help, guys! It's nice to meet you all and I can't wait to come to your great country.

There's no party in Ireland similar to the Tories.

Inverse to the power of one!

OP, There's a very Euro-skeptical, pro-nationalist party called Eirigi who might just be the thing your looking for, their big fans of social policies much in vogue with Cameronites at the moment and they also hate labor with a passion. I'd suggest you get in touch

WeeBushy

I'm intrigued as to how funjunkie found this thread to resurrect it from them dead.

RGDATA!

WeeBushy wrote: »

I'm intrigued as to how funjunkie found this thread to resurrect it from them dead.

it's on the first page of google for "Differences between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael"!

caseyann

SamKirker wrote: »

Hey folks,

I'm a member of the British Conservative Party in London and will soon be moving to Dublin. I want to remain involved in political activism and am trying to suss out the different political parties here. Other Tories seem split in who I should align myself with. Basically I can't see much of a difference between FF and FG. Could anyone tell me what the fundamental differences are? What party would be closest to the Conservatives?

Thanks a lot for your help, guys! It's nice to meet you all and I can't wait to come to your great country.

Welcome and best of luck in Ireland and with Irish politics(god help you)
Avoid at all costs both those parties.

ISAW

Sgt. Sensible wrote: »

Well in the European Parliament

FG are allied with Germany's CDU, Berlusconi's Forza Italia, and France's UMP.

FF are allied with Italy's 'post fascist' National Alliance, Denmark's anti-immigration Danish People's Party, and Poland's Catholic church supporting, anti drug legalisation, anti abortion and anti gay rights Law And Justice Party.

So take your pick.

It would seem from the above that Sgt, sensible is a certainly a Fianna Fáil supporter.
What he neglects to mention was that

1. ( Facism) the first leader of Fine Gael was Eoin O Duffy who was leader of Ireland's fascist Blueshirts who supported Franco's fascists in the Spanish Civil War.

2. ( Immigration) The last Fianna Fáil regime oversaw the biggest influx of immigrants ever into Ireland. And brought in related legislation.

3. ( Church) Post Eoin O Duffy FG was in every bit as Catholic church supporting as FF.

4. ( Drugs) All leaders of FF FG Labour SF and Greens have stated they are not pro drug legalisation.

5. ( Gays) The Civil Partnership Bill was brought in by the outgoing FF administration. A current FG Minister Lucinda Crighton was one of its objectors.

4. FG are every bit as anti abortion as FF. Labour are split on the matter many being vocally pro abortion and atheist.

6. FG are certainly historically more "law and Justice Party" than FF. Right back to setting up the state and having a rump in the police and Army who detained FF "Republicans".


Economically they are practically identical. FG will implement the policies of FF and areboth pro free trade cutting spending and lower tax. Labour would be more into bigger civil service and trade union involvement, more spending or less cuts over a longer period and increased taxation.

My advice is

Go and read the history and don't just accept unsupported opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Fianna_Fail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_fine_gael

ISAW

rightwingdub wrote: »

How about a left wing merger of Sinn Fein and Labour, a centre right merger of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael would be needed as well. It would finally consign outdated civil war politics to the asheap of history.

Not really. A FF FG mergr before the last election would give them 130 seat. A current merger about 100 seats. Showing the civil war origins of the Parliament are still there today.

A SF Lab GP Soc merger would have given them about 30 and currently about 55.

While FF/FG have a lot in common and are probably identical on economics the "Left" are all over the place with respect to economic policy in particular ( or lack of it).

Killer Pigeon

SamKirker wrote: »

Hey folks,

I'm a member of the British Conservative Party in London and will soon be moving to Dublin. I want to remain involved in political activism and am trying to suss out the different political parties here. Other Tories seem split in who I should align myself with. Basically I can't see much of a difference between FF and FG. Could anyone tell me what the fundamental differences are? What party would be closest to the Conservatives?

Thanks a lot for your help, guys! It's nice to meet you all and I can't wait to come to your great country.

Judging by your own political background I would say either the Christian Solidarity Party or Fine Gael.

transylman

The difference between FF and the rest:

FF destroyed the country through their actions and inactions during their time in power, costing the country hundreds of billions, as well as our full independence. We will be dealing with the fallout from this disaster for decades.

The others didn't. Thats the only difference that counts.

Killer Pigeon

transylman wrote: »

The difference between FF and the rest:

FF destroyed the country through their actions and inactions during their time in power, costing the country hundreds of billions, as well as our full independence. We will be dealing with the fallout from this disaster for decades.

The others didn't. Thats the only difference that counts.

Eh, it wasn't all Fianna Fáil fault although they have a lot of the blame.

Labour were and still are heavily involved with the Unions who only created another problem and got the country into debt even further with the public sector.

Fine Gael were corrupted when they were in power, just look at Michael Lowry. Fine Gael will be in power for quite a long time - maybe anyother 10 years and at the end of it people will realise that they were just as bad as Fianna Fáil.

All the top 3 parties have a history of corruption, so does Sinn Féin.

Ireland needs a new set of political parties!

Liam Byrne

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Labour were and still are heavily involved with the Unions who only created another problem and got the country into debt even further with the public sector.

Remind us again who brought in benchmarking ?

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Fine Gael were corrupted when they were in power, just look at Michael Lowry. Fine Gael will be in power for quite a long time - maybe anyother 10 years and at the end of it people will realise that they were just as bad as Fianna Fáil.

Lowry was kicked out. That's a massive difference. Corrupt FF members are lauded and excused and praised and condoned.

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Ireland needs a new set of political parties!

Agreed.

PeterIanStaker

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Fine Gael will be in power for quite a long time - maybe anyother 10 years

this current govt won't last another eighteen months, never mind a full term, let alone two.

kilkennycat2004

[QUOTE=Killer Pigeon;71347685

All the top 3 parties have a history of corruption, so does Sinn Féin.

Ireland needs a new set of political parties![/QUOTE)

A very interesting read, the praise of FF in 2006 & the possibility of FG in power for 10 years seem particularly humorous.