Sick of the gardai

Lorax

omg whatever. 1 of the gardai who pulled me in even told me it was a stupid law and in his own words said "sure its not possible to have a fully licensed driver in the car at all times" said by an enforcer OF the law so that throws your argument out the window not too mention there are 1000's of people who do what I do every day.

what_car

Lorax wrote:

Im 21, male, and drive a 1.4 astra now I know a lot of ppl on their 1st provisional drive without fully licensed drivers in the car a gardai who stopped me before even said to me that he knows its not feasible to always have 1 and personally he thought it was a stupid law anyway they, always pull me in for NO REASON at all and then go on about how its a violation of my license and my insurance etc etc it seems I cant even go out in the car any more without getting pulled in for the only reason I can think of being my car is not a 1 litre like most learners and because of the look of me (I wear hoodies a lot and football jerseys) Sorry about the rant just needed to get it out, thanks for listening!

if you read the T&C of ur insurance ur prob not covered if on your first provisional licence. rules are there for a reason,,,, in this case for other road users safety.....have you applied for the test yet?:eek:

liamo

omg whatever

What a well thought out, incisive and cogent response. That's put me in my place.

1 of the gardai who pulled me in even told me it was a stupid law and in his own words said "sure its not possible to have a fully licensed driver in the car at all times"

Do you know what you do when you can't have a fully licenced driver in the car with you? You don't f***ing drive - that's what!!! What kind of universe do you live in where it makes sense that laws that inconvenience you don't actually apply to you?

said by an enforcer OF the law so that throws your argument out the window

WTF?? Yes, an "enforcer" of the law. Not a "maker" of laws.
1. That's the job of Dail Eireann.
2. The Judges interpret the laws that are passed.
3. The Gardai are supposed to enforce those laws.
Does that clarify things for you? Just because some silly Garda thinks that a law is stupid doesn't mean that you have the right to ignore it.

not too mention there are 1000's of people who do what I do every day.

Ah, yes. That makes it ok. How silly of me not to have drawn that very obvious conclusion. 1000's of people have been caught drink-driving over the last few years. By your logic, that makes it ok? If a Garda thinks that it's a stupid law and you can't possibly always drive sober, does that make it ok?

Get off the road before you kill someone!

LundiMardi

liamo wrote:

There's a reason that you're supposed to be accompanied by a licenced driver. It's to stop you ending up as another statistic - dead in a ditch or dead wrapped around a tree or dead squashed against a wall at 3am on a dark road - or worse, dead with a few of your friends dead in the back seat.

Get off the f***ing road, you maniac, before you kill yourself and/or someone else!!

Get off your high horse will ya? jebus!!!! Yeah, because only provional licenced drivers end up dead in a ditch :rolleyes:

If the OP was driving dangerously then the OP would have been arrested for dangerous driving... He was not, so we can only assume he wasn't driving dangerously.

liamo

LundiMardi wrote:

Get off your high horse will ya? jebus!!!!

This guy thinks it's ok to drive unaccompanied after FOUR months experience? I think that kind of attitude is dangerous. If he thinks like that about a licence, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that he has similar opinions about other areas of driving law. As a (fully licenced) road user, I have a right to expect that other drivers on the road are competent enough to be on the same roads as me. If they're not, then they shouldn't be on the roads. It's as simple as that. It's dangerous enough on the roads without having to share them with idiots who think that they have some kind of right to be driving around unlicenced.

Yeah, because only provional licenced drivers end up dead in a ditch :rolleyes:

Some people end up dead under the wheels of provisional drivers!
And some experienced drivers drink and drive and kill people.
And some very experienced drivers end up dead in a ditch.
But the group of people most at risk of dying in a car at the moment are young male drivers. That's the group that the OP is in. He's been driving for FOUR months. He's not experienced enough to be driving on his own. He thinks he is. He's already in a high-risk group. He's a menace and shouldn't be on the roads on his own.

If the OP was driving dangerously then the OP would have been arrested for dangerous driving

One doesn't follow from the other.

... He was not, so we can only assume he wasn't driving dangerously.

You may assume so, but it would be an incorrect conclusion. Not being arrested for dangerous driving would only mean that he wasn't arrested for dangerous driving.

It's not necessarily about dangerous driving.

My point is ....

He's been driving for four months.
He's inexperienced.
He's breaking the law.
He believes that it's ok to drive unaccompanied.
He believes that because loads of other people are doing it, that it's somehow ok for him to do it.
He doesn't think these laws should apply to him.

Excuse me if I think he has a nerve to come into a motoring forum and complain about being pulled over in these circumstances. Pardon me for pointing out that he's a danger to himself and others. How dare I tell him get off the same roads that I use. B0ll0x!

LundiMardi

liamo wrote:

This guy thinks it's ok to drive unaccompanied after FOUR months experience? I think that kind of attitude is dangerous. If he thinks like that about a licence, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that he has similar opinions about other areas of driving law. As a (fully licenced) road user, I have a right to expect that other drivers on the road are competent enough to be on the same roads as me. If they're not, then they shouldn't be on the roads. It's as simple as that. It's dangerous enough on the roads without having to share them with idiots who think that they have some kind of right to be driving around unlicenced.

Well, the OP does have a right to be on the road just like you or I. Do you know how competent the OP is on the road? Have you met the OP? Have you sat in their car and examined their driving skills? How do you feel about drivers on a second provisional? After all, they are not fully qualified, but are allowed drive on their own?

liamo wrote:

Some people end up dead under the wheels of provisional drivers!
And some experienced drivers drink and drive and kill people.
And some very experienced drivers end up dead in a ditch.
But the group of people most at risk of dying in a car at the moment are young male drivers. That's the group that the OP is in. He's been driving for FOUR months. He's not experienced enough to be driving on his own. He thinks he is. He's already in a high-risk group. He's a menace and shouldn't be on the roads on his own.

Yes, exactly, we are ALL at rist, i'm glad you see my point of view. You're right, he is in a high risk group, as am i, but that won't change the day he passes his test. In fact i think young male drivers who have JUST passed their test are a higher risk than the likes of the OP.

How can one attain experience driving on their own if they are not allowed to drive on their own?

liamo wrote:

You may assume so, but it would be an incorrect conclusion. Not being arrested for dangerous driving would only mean that he wasn't arrested for dangerous driving.

:eek: wow

liamo wrote:

My point is ....

He's been driving for four months.
He's inexperienced.
He's breaking the law.
He believes that it's ok to drive unaccompanied.
He believes that because loads of other people are doing it, that it's somehow ok for him to do it.
He doesn't think these laws should apply to him.

Excuse me if I think he has a nerve to come into a motoring forum and complain about being pulled over in these circumstances. Pardon me for pointing out that he's a danger to himself and others. How dare I tell him get off the same roads that I use. B0ll0x!

He's complaining because he's being pulled over for no reason, he is not driving dangerously otherwise he would have been arrested/cautioned/whatever. I personally don't believe he's being pulled over solely because he has L Plates up and is on his own, because the guards just don't do this. As others have explained, there could be multiple reasons why he is being pulled over, and when the guards realise there's nothing to be worried about they just give him the standard learner driver lecture.

Personally, i don't think the driving test makes a blind bit of difference to your competency on the roads, and i think you're a fool to think so. The guy is just trying to get on with things, everyone has to start somewhere and the ONLY way he's going to improve is to get experience driving a damn car. It's not ideal, but it's just the situation he and THOUSANDS of others are forced into because of the current situation.

So if you have a problem with this, instead of bashing every learner driver, why not do something a little more proactive like start a ''campaign'':rolleyes:

liamo

LundiMardi wrote:

Well, the OP does have a right to be on the road just like you or I.

He doesn't have any such right. Driving on the roads is a privelege not a right. It's a privelege that you are supposed to earn by learning how to drive, by taking lessons, by passing your test, by obeying the appropriate laws. However he's driving around unaccompanied after only four months experience. He's breaking those laws. I understand that this happens. I even sympathise to a degree. However, the OP is so inexperienced that this borders on criminally dangerous.

Do you know how competent the OP is on the road? Have you met the OP? Have you sat in their car and examined their driving skills?

Obviously, "No" to all questions. However, I do know that he has only four months experience. Inexperience is a major contributor to road traffic accidents.

How do you feel about drivers on a second provisional? After all, they are not fully qualified, but are allowed drive on their own?

Actually, I have an issue with that as well but that's a completely separate argument. He's not on his second provisional, he's on his first!

You're right, he is in a high risk group, as am i, but that won't change the day he passes his test. In fact i think young male drivers who have JUST passed their test are a higher risk than the likes of the OP.

Yes, he will still be in a high-risk group when he (hopefully) passes his test. However, drivers in a high-risk group should observe the law precisely because they're in that group.

How can one attain experience driving on their own if they are not allowed to drive on their own?

You keep missing the point. He hasn't even reached the point where he's permitted to drive on his own. You seem to think that it's ok that he's driving unaccompanied after four months. If so, why not after only three months? Or two? Why not one week?

Personally, i don't think the driving test makes a blind bit of difference to your competency on the roads, and i think you're a fool to think so.

I never said that the test would improve competency, nor do I think so.

The guy is just trying to get on with things, everyone has to start somewhere and the ONLY way he's going to improve is to get experience driving a damn car. It's not ideal, but it's just the situation he and THOUSANDS of others are forced into because of the current situation.

He can get his experience by driving with a fully licenced driver. That's the law. That's how he can improve. By benefitting from the experience of someone who has been tested and judged competent to drive unaccompanied. He's not being forced into anything by any current situation.

So if you have a problem with this, instead of bashing every learner driver, why not do something a little more proactive like start a ''campaign'':rolleyes:

Enough of the amateur dramatics please :rolleyes:. I'm not "bashing every learner driver". What I am doing, however, is taking issue with someone who has only just started to drive and who thinks that the laws don't apply to him. These laws are not there to inconvenience him. They're there for safety reasons.

FIVE people have died in the last couple of days on the roads. I believe four of them were in a single car. All four were young males. I'm sure obeying the laws would be inconvenient for the OP. I'm also sure that ending up dead was pretty damned inconvenient for those four young men. That's what the laws are there to prevent. That's why I feel strongly about this.

deman

byte wrote:

Yeah, but maybe he had no real intention of driving at 17. Nor maybe had the finances for a motor.

Heck, I didn't get my full license or my first car until I was 26!

At 17, I didn't have the finances to buy my own car. It didn't stop me from getting my provisional though. As soon as I got my provisional, I also applied for my test. Didn't get my own car until I was 24. I had my full licence 3 months after my 18th birthday.

LundiMardi wrote:

He's complaining because he's being pulled over for no reason

But there is a reason. He's breaking the law. His insurance doesn't cover him. And if he has an accident, what then?

LundiMardi wrote:

I know, i know what you're thinking, and yes it is quite a retarded statement.

Is it retarded to make long term plans?

It's not a bit wonder that there are so many deaths on Irish roads when most people here think it's ok to drive alone with a provisional licence, and for when the OP has the nerve to complain about being stopped for breaking the law.

furtzy

unnameduser wrote:

What a comment. The driving licence situation in Ireland is a farce. Yes they are the rules but christ breaking them is unavoidable when waiting for a test. Id hate to be in that situation.

So any laws that inconvience you are to be broken? Thats the sort of idiotic thinking that has people drink driving because theres no taxis available or no insurance as its too expensive. I sincerely hope you don't drive as theres enough idiots on the road already.

LundiMardi

liamo wrote:

He doesn't have any such right. Driving on the roads is a privelege not a right. It's a privelege that you are supposed to earn by learning how to drive, by taking lessons, by passing your test, by obeying the appropriate laws. However he's driving around unaccompanied after only four months experience. He's breaking those laws. I understand that this happens. I even sympathise to a degree. However, the OP is so inexperienced that this borders on criminally dangerous.

Do you ever break the speed limit? I'd say you do, just like every other driver, that is also ''criminally dangerous'', speed is the largest single factor contributing to road deaths... so unless you actually obey EVERY single law there is, you cannot preach to others. For all we know the guy has had a driving lesson every other day for the past 4 months, my point is YOU DO NOT KNOW how competent the OP is regardless of how long he has been driving.

liamo wrote:

Obviously, "No" to all questions. However, I do know that he has only four months experience. Inexperience is a major contributor to road traffic accidents.

Alcohol is a factor in over a third of road deaths, should we ban alcohol? Because people are always going to drink and drive.

liamo wrote:

Yes, he will still be in a high-risk group when he (hopefully) passes his test. However, drivers in a high-risk group should observe the law precisely because they're in that group.

Idealism much?

liamo wrote:

You keep missing the point. He hasn't even reached the point where he's permitted to drive on his own. You seem to think that it's ok that he's driving unaccompanied after four months. If so, why not after only three months? Or two? Why not one week?

He can get his experience by driving with a fully licenced driver. That's the law. That's how he can improve. By benefitting from the experience of someone who has been tested and judged competent to drive unaccompanied. He's not being forced into anything by any current situation.

Again with the laws, like i said, unless you actually follow every single law, then you're in no position to talk. As i also said, you don't know how competent the OP is or what kind of teaching he/she has received. Maybe he has already been tested and judged competent to drive unaccompanied by a driving instructor. Just because he hasn't past his/her test doesn't mean that they are incompetent!!! The fact that the law isn't even enforced shows that learner drivers are no more a threat to road users than fully licenced drivers.

liamo wrote:

Enough of the amateur dramatics please :rolleyes:. I'm not "bashing every learner driver". What I am doing, however, is taking issue with someone who has only just started to drive and who thinks that the laws don't apply to him. These laws are not there to inconvenience him. They're there for safety reasons.

FIVE people have died in the last couple of days on the roads. I believe four of them were in a single car. All four were young males. I'm sure obeying the laws would be inconvenient for the OP. I'm also sure that ending up dead was pretty damned inconvenient for those four young men. That's what the laws are there to prevent. That's why I feel strongly about this.

Speed limits are there for safety reasons, but you break em.

Out of those people who died, who were provisional licences? Do you even know?

The drivers most at risk are male, 17-25, and have held a licence for less than two years. This is always going to be the case......

You drive around in a lethal weapon every day,. it's maybe time to realise that you are as big as a threat as everyone else on the road. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

keizer

Lorax wrote:

omg whatever. 1 of the gardai who pulled me in even told me it was a stupid law and in his own words said "sure its not possible to have a fully licensed driver in the car at all times" said by an enforcer OF the law so that throws your argument out the window not too mention there are 1000's of people who do what I do every day.

You met one guard who thinks its a stupid law! Wait til you meet a guard who'll summons you because of it!

liamo

LundiMardi wrote:

Do you ever break the speed limit? I'd say you do, just like every other driver, that is also ''criminally dangerous'', speed is the largest single factor contributing to road deaths... so unless you actually obey EVERY single law there is, you cannot preach to others. For all we know the guy has had a driving lesson every other day for the past 4 months, my point is YOU DO NOT KNOW how competent the OP is regardless of how long he has been driving.

Way to go with the assumption of every driver breaking the speed limits. That's not a bit of a sweeping generalisation. And no, we don't know how many lessons he has had. However, the point is (again) that he is VERY inexperienced and shouldn't be driving unaccompanied. It's dangerous and against the law. You seem to be making the point that if someone else is doing something they shouldn't that makes it ok for the OP to break a different law. How very logical.

Alcohol is a factor in over a third of road deaths, should we ban alcohol? Because people are always going to drink and drive.

Yes we should ban alcohol and driving - completely. If people are always going to speed (and, according to you, everyone's at it) should we, by an extension of your logic, drop speed limit entirely?

Again with the laws, like i said, unless you actually follow every single law, then you're in no position to talk. As i also said, you don't know how competent the OP is or what kind of teaching he/she has received. Maybe he has already been tested and judged competent to drive unaccompanied by a driving instructor. Just because he hasn't past his/her test doesn't mean that they are incompetent!!! The fact that the law isn't even enforced shows that learner drivers are no more a threat to road users than fully licenced drivers.

This is just complete and utter garbage and doesn't deserve any more comment.

Speed limits are there for safety reasons, but you break em.

So now you're stating, for a fact, that I break the speed limit? This is just getting ludicrous.

Out of those people who died, who were provisional licences? Do you even know?

No, and you're missing the point again (Deliberately, I suspect)

You drive around in a lethal weapon every day,. it's maybe time to realise that you are as big as a threat as everyone else on the road.

No, I'm not. I have many years of experience behind me. I don't drink and drive. I don't break the speed limit. I drive defensively. That makes me a lot safer than most people on the roads. It definitely makes me safer than someone with 4 months experience.

You're deliberately (or stupidly) missing the point again and again and I'm not going to rise to any more trolling bait from you.

Wishbone Ash

liamo wrote:

I have many years of experience behind me. That makes me a lot safer than most people on the roads.

That's a dangerous assumptiom to make liamo. I have many years driving experience and have a full, clean and unrestricted licence in all 14 categories and I've never been involved in an accident that was my fault (rear-ended twice). However, I wouldn't be so cavalier as to say that I'm 'safer than most people on the roads'. I could cause the death of someone today or be killed myself.

LundiMardi

Liamo, it seems you're missing my point....

As above, you seem very confident that you're a lot safer that ''most people''... This will probably lead to your downfall someday.

Oh, and yes, everyone breaks the speed limit, if you say you don't or never have done so, then you're a liar. Plain and simple.

Sonnenblumen

Lorax wrote:

Im 21, male, and drive a 1.4 astra now I know a lot of ppl on their 1st provisional drive without fully licensed drivers in the car a gardai who stopped me before even said to me that he knows its not feasible to always have 1 and personally he thought it was a stupid law anyway they, always pull me in for NO REASON at all and then go on about how its a violation of my license and my insurance etc etc it seems I cant even go out in the car any more without getting pulled in for the only reason I can think of being my car is not a 1 litre like most learners and because of the look of me (I wear hoodies a lot and football jerseys) Sorry about the rant just needed to get it out, thanks for listening!

I'm sick of L-plate drivers moaning about the law and when they're stopped they wonder "why you pick on me?".

Solution is easy, respect the law and get your test.

Anan1

LundiMardi wrote:

Oh, and yes, everyone breaks the speed limit, if you say you don't or never have done so, then you're a liar. Plain and simple.

Can you actually prove this, or is it just your own personal opinion?

LundiMardi

Anan1 wrote:

Can you actually prove this, or is it just your own personal opinion?

:rolleyes:

If you seriously think that there are people out there that have never EVER broken the speed limit, then i'm just wasting my breath here.

overdriver

Sonnenblumen wrote:

I'm sick of L-plate drivers moaning about the law and when they're stopped they wonder "why you pick on me?".

Solution is easy, respect the law and get your test.

Yeah, you can get a driving test slot on demand, at a day's notice. :rolleyes: Another helpful, understanding post from Bloomin' Sonnen.

Max_Damage

overdriver wrote:

Yeah, you can get a driving test slot on demand, at a day's notice. :rolleyes: Another helpful, understanding post from Bloomin' Sonnen.

Good things come to those who wait.

Sonnenblumen

overdriver wrote:

Yeah, you can get a driving test slot on demand, at a day's notice. :rolleyes: Another helpful, understanding post from Bloomin' Sonnen.

I've plenty of understanding but can also read: L-drivers stay off the Motorways!!

LundiMardi

Motorways are the safest roads in the country.

Lorax

I'm sick of L-plate drivers moaning about the law and when they're stopped they wonder "why you pick on me?".

Solution is easy, respect the law and get your test.

Now why didnt I think of that!

Guy:Incognito

overdriver wrote:

Yeah, you can get a driving test slot on demand, at a day's notice. :rolleyes: Another helpful, understanding post from Bloomin' Sonnen.

It takes about a year to get through you lessons and do a test in Germany, yet they manage. Why do people in Irleand seem to think they shouldnt do lessons and just jump in a car.

Why not get your provisional at 17/18 and do lessons? If you want to get on the road apply straight away and spend the year waiting on your test learning to drive properly?

No 17 year old NEEDS to drive.

Victor

LundiMardi wrote:

He's complaining because he's being pulled over for no reason, he is not driving dangerously otherwise he would have been arrested/cautioned/whatever.

He is being pulled over for a reason - the gardai have a record of him driving around on his own.

LundiMardi wrote:

my point is YOU DO NOT KNOW how competent the OP is regardless of how long he has been driving.

More importantly, the OP doesn't know how competant he is.

Talliesin

Lorax wrote:

"sure its not possible to have a fully licensed driver in the car at all times" said by an enforcer OF the law so that throws your argument out the window

1 Gardai's opinion vs. the reality of almost every other country in the Western World.

You really do have a very high opinion of our boys in blue it seems.

LundiMardi wrote:

Motorways are the safest roads in the country.

Partly because it's only people that know how to drive that are allowed on them. The OP does not know how to drive.

Seth Brundle

Talliesin wrote:

Partly because it's only people that know how to drive that are allowed on them. The OP does not know how to drive.

Incorrect - people who have a full licence are allowed on them. This does not automatically assume they know how to drive and given the actions of many drivers on our motorways this is quite evident.

hi5

I lived in the UK for a while,a common present for a 17th birthday is a block of driving lessons, almost everybody I met had their driving licence by the age of 19 Its considered a passage of right,I lived in London and nobody ever drove,didnt even own a car, but they had their full licence just in case.theres a lack of responsibility in Ireland.

The_Magoo

regardless of legislation, the three biggest problems are:

Lack of enforcement: Driving 20k km per year and I have been stopped for tax details once, and never been bagged, which should be done every time a cop stops someone. Rarely see cops on the dangerous back roads and I know a few.
The Irish attitude: "Ah, shure it ll be grand" The answer to every concern,
how many fellas have you seen getting into the car after a few pints and people saying, "ah, shure he'll be grand". Tyres looking a bit bald, "ah sure itll be grand", No seat belts on the kids,"ah sure their grand", going too fast, no insurance, no tax, no nct "ah sure itll be grand". We have to get out of this mind set if we are to move forward.

The Roads: I mean seriously, the roads must play a huge part in the accident rates, how many times have you had to swerve to avoid potholes, drove into a corner at a reasonable speed only for it to tighten up, with no sign to warn of this, cant see the edge of the road with overgrowth, blind crest into corners again with no warning, chamber changes mid corner, use of wrong materials, LOOSE CHIPPINGS which are lethal and unheard of elsewhere!