Union funds on bus to camp

generalmiaow

this is disgraceful; panda100 I applaud your efforts to get this money back.

Chinafoot

Absolute disgraceful waste of money, but I have to say, I'm not surprised in the least.

How is this an issue that affects UCD students? I'm sure there's someone who posts here that voted for this to be passed. Perhaps they can explain why the students money should be spent on an issue like this. If the answer is going to be "a mandate to support them was passed, we have to follow the mandate" then the question changes to why was this even proposed in the first place? What reasoning can you possibly give that justifies the involvement of the students' union in this?

SS hit the nail on the head with his post tbh.

*waits for obligatory "if you're not happy with the union then get involved and change it" response.*

Red Alert

I forgot to say a well done to panda on this one.

Dave!

Absolutely ridiculous. The SU is a bloody sham, they are squandering the money that we (well, not me this year, but next year) pay and are apparantly completely oblivious to what benefits the student body. Total p*ss-take.

And there were enough instances of the same thing happening last year, that I'm not at all surprised at this.

Byrno

Red Alert wrote:

Shame on each and every member of the SU council who did not vote.

Everyone has the right to abstain from voting on a motion. I've done it many a time when I didn't feel I had enough information at hand to make a decision. In fact it takes more intellegence to do so than to blindly put up a hand when you feel.

singingstranger wrote:

**EDIT - this, again, was an emergency motion, and so it's naturally difficult for any liaising with constituents, but this was a motion that was publicised days in advance of the meeting.

Exactly this was an emergency motion. Not too many people knew it was coming before the meeting. When I came in late from the exam in Blackrock I did not know that the motion was coming and was expecting to just sit there and listen to the reports. I heard no publicity about it and I'm sure most other reps, especially the new reps, didn't know about it.

PS I agree with you singingstranger on the "VIP" section. It's a ridiculous idea. I was at the Trinity Freshers Ball last night and they had the same thing. Stupid. They should just open it up to all, there might be a bit more space in there then. So cliquey it's not funny. I have no problem with people who give up their time to help out getting in free but to have a special cordoned off area is ridiculous.

Red Alert

I would generally expect a class rep to have some amount of cop on, and allowing the sort of bus-hiring-tomfoolery i have seen here would ring alarm bells with any competent class rep.

tintinr35

I apologise if I was wrong about the involvement in the garage protest earlier but I feel that it is in the same vain there is a comparison to be drawn between the two it just seems that these people around UCD will as I said already just jump on any bandwagon just to make noise!
This whole idea of the union having their own private area at the fresher’s ball is a joke; there are probably more people at the ball than voted in the actual election! It makes me sick to the stomach that these people like the ents officer (just using her as an example because of the event in question) the very fact that the union officers all have their own offices that covers about a quarter of the bottom floor of the student centre when the medical centre is vastly in need of more space as it cant cope with the some 20,000 students in UCD is a joke I mean why do the SU actually need offices when the likes of Belfield had to spend the last how many years in a Porto cabin when again more people probably listen to Belfieldfm than the Students Union its a joke. The union is just about people needing ego massages. Even the fact that than again with the largest student body in Ireland, in ucdsu shops coke is banned! Im aware that there are other choices on places to go but its ridiculous!! I am just sick of them all and their sanctimonious attitudes!!!

elmyra

I'm with Panda and Gav on this one. Not impressed in the slightest. The people who are going to this protest are going in a personal capacity, because if they're going to represent the UCD student body they probably should've asked what we thought about that first...

Given that they're going in a personal capacity, they should fund their own little expedition. I have nothing but admiration for people who are willing to travel across the country and stand up for something they believe in, but if I don't support it and don't benefit from it then quite frankly I don't want to pay for it.

the evil lime

Here are some comments:

1. I have no idea whatsoever who my class rep is. I do know that they were elected unopposed. This occured simply because I was unaware of the fact. I dislike the notion of an unopposed election, and would have run simply to provide some competition. (I would in such a theortical case, have done the job if elected)

2. My class rep has never, so far as I can recollect, asked our opinion on any motion. I do believe they have organised some parties or something though. I am making the assumption that it's the same person as last year. I never got to know who that was either.

3. If this money has been spent to transport non-UCD students, then some recovery at least should be made from those students, even if sending the others could be seen to be in line with a previous mandate (I don't know, I haven't read it).

4. The reason union membership is compulsory most likley has little or nothing to do with the SU. It's highly advantagious from UCD's prespective to have one "official" face for the students with which they can discuss and negotiate issues. They can't keep us out of a body such as they union, but so far as I know it's ok to force us into one as a condition of our attendance. (I may be wrong on this entire point, but I think that's probably the case, if not a previous employer of mine screwed me over.)

Disclaimer: I have no connection to UCDSU (other than membership).

Feel free to ignore the above and continue on.

BKtje

the SU really is a joke, however i guess they get some things right occasionally.
Law of averages and all that.


Incase the above isnt clear enough, no i wouldnt support it.

GusherING

singingstranger wrote:

Steph, do you accept that if everybody on Council had done the same thing the outcome could have been very different indeed?
(* obviously this was an Emergency Motion but should it have been a regular motion with a weeks' notice... )

To be honest, I think this motion is symptomatic of most of the problems with Council - which are that its votes, and the consequential directions that the Union ultimately takes, are entirely to do with Class Reps ignoring their Constitutional duty to consult with their constituents for every single motion. The idea of having a parity in the number of constituents for each Rep is supposed to make Council votes act like an electoral college - but every Rep is supposed to vote exactly as the majority of the people they represent tell them to. There's a good reason why the deadline for submitting motions is a full week before Council meetings, and there's a damn good reason why I had to spend every alternate Wednesday out of Council in front of a laptop sending out a hundred or more emails to Councillors and publishing the stories on the newswire - it was so that Councillors could liaise with their constituents and get THEM to vote on how things were supposed to be.

Aside from the drudgery of having to type stuff out, the one thing that always frustrated me beyond belief was that there was even ever a need for debate at all. People are supposed to have been told how to vote. And - this will be unusually blunt of me - I'm fed up with situations where people run for Class Rep and bargain themselves off with their class, agreeing to stay out of their way if they're allowed carte blanche to do whatever they like. I know this has been the genuine case in at least one instance, and the result is the Rep in question having sat on Council and put forward motions that - if mood on the ground, on Boards or anywhere else is to be acknowledged - would be shot down immediately by the bulk of their constituents. I would LOVE if there was a system where Class Reps could only be afforded voting privileges if they could prove (collect the signatures of X number of classmates, perhaps) they had liaised with their constituents on how they were to vote.

I'd like everyone reading this - all the non-Reps, although the new ones can include themselves too - to think about this for just a second. How many of you can honestly say you've always known the identity of your class/Council rep? And how many of you have ever had your Rep come to one of your classes, tell you what motions were up for the next Council meeting, and seek a mandate on how to vote at them? EVERY Class Rep (not every Councillor, but EVERY Class Rep) is supposed to do this, as part of their duty to inform their constituents of the goings-on of the Union (Article 8 of the UCDSU Constitution).

Well, I urge every last one of you to pop along to www.ucdsu.net, and find out who your Council Rep is. And hold them accountable to the relative perks that being a Councillor holds (and while I'm at it, I might say that Chakar, I was irked beyond belief when you were bragging about being in the VIP Section at the Fresher's Ball which consisted basically of "Union people" - you know full well that the cliquish air of the Union is the LAST thing we want to publicise). If your Councillor hasn't been doing their job, then MAKE them do it - or have them gotten rid of for someone who will.

Every motion is supposed to be like a referendum. Those are the rules. So either change the rules and make the apathy of the Class Reps legal, or change the Reps for people who will actually CONSULT you on its policy. Being a Class Rep is NOT an implicit permission to vote as the Rep wishes on Council motions - it's the privilege of proposing motions on behalf of your constituents, and for voting as they want you to.

Frankly, this culture of people being elected on the basis of popularity or ability to organise a good party needs to be really shot in the ass once and for all. A party is only one good night or weekend. Complaints on Union policy go on forever. People need to examine for themselves which they really want more of.

I dislike this tarring of all class reps with the one brush. A certain female candidate who ran for Arts Programme Officer last year came into my class and spouted this hyperbole. She even had the cheek to ask my class 'Do you even know who you're class rep is?' to which she got a load of heads being turned toward myself and my fellow rep. Believe it or not but I actually went to the effort of collecting the names and emails of all three classes that were in my constituency and regularly informed them about union issues and threw a class party. I have to say I was dissappointed with the relatively little feed back I received but I have yet to hear a complaint from a single member within my class for my duties last year and to date his year.

I often have the pleasure of sitting next to somebody in a tutorial, having never met them spoke directly with them before and they say 'Oh, you're the class rep aren't ya?' and sparking off a great conversation with them. I believe I have earned their trust, I don't neccessarily need their imprimatur fortnightly although they always have the option to hold me accountable by getting in touch. This is a more reasonable and pragmattic paradigm of how democracy works in reality. Having an electoral college would require a fortnightly vote on every motion, every candidate who wants to run for a committee, every little thing.

Furthermore the inherent implication that the onus is always on me to communicate with my class is a very hard one to juggle when you have studies and other aspects of ones life to juggle also. I am not a full time politician.

I would love to see such an example where such a utopian system exists and although I do admire your idealism, I fear such a system would not work in practice. Maybe personality does work best. Perhaps the old cliche of 'If you don't vote, you get the government you deserve' rings true.

Chakar

tintinr35 wrote:

I apologise if I was wrong about the involvement in the garage protest earlier but I feel that it is in the same vain there is a comparison to be drawn between the two it just seems that these people around UCD will as I said already just jump on any bandwagon just to make noise!
This whole idea of the union having their own private area at the fresher’s ball is a joke; there are probably more people at the ball than voted in the actual election! It makes me sick to the stomach that these people like the ents officer (just using her as an example because of the event in question) the very fact that the union officers all have their own offices that covers about a quarter of the bottom floor of the student centre when the medical centre is vastly in need of more space as it cant cope with the some 20,000 students in UCD is a joke I mean why do the SU actually need offices when the likes of Belfield had to spend the last how many years in a Porto cabin when again more people probably listen to Belfieldfm than the Students Union its a joke. The union is just about people needing ego massages. Even the fact that than again with the largest student body in Ireland, in ucdsu shops coke is banned! Im aware that there are other choices on places to go but its ridiculous!! I am just sick of them all and their sanctimonious attitudes!!!

Actually you're wrong 2000 plus people voted in the sabbatical elections and 1000 people attended the Freshers Ball.

Also I think sabbatical officers offices is absolutely crucial to their jobs if they didn't have an office with a phone and a computer it would be nigh on impossible to do their jobs.These sabbatical officers remember effectively run UCDSU with the help of the class reps and executive officers.

Chakar

GusherING wrote:

I dislike this tarring of all class reps with the one brush. A certain female candidate who ran for Arts Programme Officer last year came into my class and spouted this hyperbole. She even had the cheek to ask my class 'Do you even know who you're class rep is?' to which she got a load of heads being turned toward myself and my fellow rep. Believe it or not but I actually went to the effort of collecting the names and emails of all three classes that were in my constituency and regularly informed them about union issues and threw a class party. I have to say I was dissappointed with the relatively little feed back I received but I have yet to hear a complaint from a single member within my class for my duties last year and to date his year.

I often have the pleasure of sitting next to somebody in a tutorial, having never met them spoke directly with them before and they say 'Oh, you're the class rep aren't ya?' and sparking off a great conversation with them. I believe I have earned their trust, I don't neccessarily need their imprimatur fortnightly although they always have the option to hold me accountable by getting in touch. This is a more reasonable and pragmattic paradigm of how democracy works in reality. Having an electoral college would require a fortnightly vote on every motion, every candidate who wants to run for a committee, every little thing.

Furthermore the inherent implication that the onus is always on me to communicate with my class is a very hard one to juggle when you have studies and other aspects of ones life to juggle also. I am not a full time politician.

I would love to see such an example where such a utopian system exists and although I do admire your idealism, I fear such a system would not work in practice. Maybe personality does work best. Perhaps the old cliche of 'If you don't vote, you get the government you deserve' rings true.

Yeah I totally agree with you.To be honest Gav's only saying what others have been saying in the past.A lot of my constituents at least don't care not all of them but a LOT of them.I sent out emails to 600 people last year and only got one reply to the emails respectively so it was pretty ridiculous.

Chinafoot

Having spent three years in UCD I can tell you that, in my experience, one of the main reasons that so many students don't care is because whenever they do have contact with a class rep (once in a blue moon really) it's about stuff that doesn't really affect the students. Why would they care when all they see is the union jumping on every 'good cause' going. I have no doubt that good things have been done by the SU with regard to the student body. However, the things that the union, or at least some of it's members, seem to be most vocal about are things that should not be dealt with by the SU.

Money gets spent on the causes that, in most cases, have nothing to do with the students. This a perfect example. Nobody has answered my question as to how the Shell to Sea campaign in Mayo has absolutely anything to do with the students of UCD.

Like Elmyra, I've the utmost respect for people who put themselves out there and "fight the good fight" but, when it's something that doesn't affect the students, do it on your own time and spend your own money.

Blush_01

GusherING wrote:

I dislike this tarring of all class reps with the one brush. A certain female candidate who ran for Arts Programme Officer last year came into my class and spouted this hyperbole. She even had the cheek to ask my class 'Do you even know who you're class rep is?' to which she got a load of heads being turned toward myself and my fellow rep. Believe it or not but I actually went to the effort of collecting the names and emails of all three classes that were in my constituency and regularly informed them about union issues and threw a class party. I have to say I was dissappointed with the relatively little feed back I received but I have yet to hear a complaint from a single member within my class for my duties last year and to date his year.

I often have the pleasure of sitting next to somebody in a tutorial, having never met them spoke directly with them before and they say 'Oh, you're the class rep aren't ya?' and sparking off a great conversation with them. I believe I have earned their trust, I don't neccessarily need their imprimatur fortnightly although they always have the option to hold me accountable by getting in touch. This is a more reasonable and pragmattic paradigm of how democracy works in reality. Having an electoral college would require a fortnightly vote on every motion, every candidate who wants to run for a committee, every little thing.

Furthermore the inherent implication that the onus is always on me to communicate with my class is a very hard one to juggle when you have studies and other aspects of ones life to juggle also. I am not a full time politician.

I would love to see such an example where such a utopian system exists and although I do admire your idealism, I fear such a system would not work in practice. Maybe personality does work best. Perhaps the old cliche of 'If you don't vote, you get the government you deserve' rings true.

Congratulations on doing the job the way you did it. But you're very much in the minority.

In the three years I spent as an undergraduate, a number of people thought I was rep for two of them. I was liaison rep in first English (department to class, not Union), and I knew the class rep's name - but she never addressed the class or told them to contact her if they had any issues or let anyone know anything about... well... anything. I made sure that the majority of people were aware of who I was, and if they had any issues with the course that they wanted brought up to let me know - I may not have got much of a response, but I did what I could.

In second year I had no idea who my reps were. Nobody ever addressed our lectures as rep, nor did they make any attempt to let any of us know who they were. It didn't bother me much because I was so busy it was insane, but it made me resent the union, that I'd voted for someone to represent me on the union, and at the end of the day whoever was elected didn't even care enough to make themselves known to us.

Last year I found out who my reps were by going to Dave. It took him a day or two to get back to me, but I knew my reps names. One of them is a poster here. I hope they do a better job in what they're doing this year than they did in letting people know who they were last year. As for the other rep, I'd never heard of him, had no idea how to contact him, and felt that the least he could have done was address the class - hell, I've addressed classes for three years now, for many different reasons, and it doesn't take that much time, nor does it take any effort.

I could have tried to get rid of all the people who were supposedly representing me on the Union in their role as class rep, but who would have replaced them? I was too busy myself, being on a number of committees, and didn't want or need the added responsibility I'd have had by doing the job well. I sure as hell didn't intend on doing a half-assed or non-existent job, like they did. I was at all bar 3 Mode 2 lectures all year, and they were all in the second semester, so my absence is not a reason for my not knowing my reps. The tarring of all reps with the same brush happens for a very simple reason - very, very few reps, at least within Arts and over the past few years, have given a toss to let any of their constituents know who they were or ask them their opinions on anything.

As for the Shell thing, I haven't read the whole thread, because frankly I find the volume of quotes in most of the posts make them hard to read, but I will do so when I get a chance. I also think the use of Union funds to send supporters to Rossport or Shannon, to get people out of jail or pay their fines etc. is all abhorrent. None of the issues being addressed like that are in any way impacting on the daily lives of the masses in UCD. The money that's wasted on individual's petitions and causes by the Union would be put to much better use in the hardship fund. If you want to lend your support to something so much, have enough drive to do it on your own finances. If you can't afford it, then tough luck, get a job like the rest of us.

singingstranger

For the record, I don't want to give off the impression that EVERY single Class Rep is so laissez-faire about Council motions - not in the slightest. Having been Secretary last year and having had liaison with every last one of last year's Councillors, I know that it's far from the truth, and that there are of course many Reps who the jobs, often frustratingly lonelily, that it is their duty to do. But we shouldn't kid ourselves for a minute to think that Council is a representative body through a certain number (I think I can safely say a minority) of its members actually voting as they are asked to.

Red Alert

I was department/class liason rep like Blush for 2 years, and I believe everybody on that commitee did a lot more than at least one of our SU reps, who basically used his position as a mouthpiece for his socialist views.

A topic for another day, but, some way of reviewing the work of the sabbats needs to take place. Some like Holly Irvine have consumed a lot of money, but have caused a net loss to the union on their first event. In many businesses that would be a firm handshake.

gubbie

Red Alert wrote:

I was department/class liason rep like Blush for 2 years, and I believe everybody on that commitee did a lot more than at least one of our SU reps, who basically used his position as a mouthpiece for his socialist views..

Glad to see he's famous around engineering as much as he is around the union-I was starting to wonder why there were so many socialists in final eng last year

ferdi

i take the view that if this 250euro (**** all money) were not spent on this bus it would have been spent on some other stupid pointless rubbish such as crappy poster or free drink for the coucil or something.
my point being that the money might as well have gone on this, as any of the unions other futile nugatory ventures.

abelard

Can someone tell me why that madate to support Shell to Sea currently exists? Was it a decision voted on by council themselves, or did it come down from USI or something like that?

panda100

Chakar wrote:

That protest isn't mandated by the Students Union and the people there are affliated to the union but protest there in their own capacity.Also its Labour Youth and others who have been protesting there.

This isnt exactly true and Tin tin was correct in what he initially said.

Last week a minority of UCD students underneath the UCDSU banner infiltrated the Shell headquarters in Leeson street. They climbed onto the roof and entered the building illegally,they did this in the name of the UCDSU as the banner was clearly visble.

panda100

ferdi wrote:

i take the view that if this 250euro (**** all money) were not spent on this bus it would have been spent on some other stupid pointless rubbish such as crappy poster or free drink for the coucil or something.
my point being that the money might as well have gone on this, as any of the unions other futile nugatory ventures.

A 'crappy' poster to inform students of self defence classes or a breast cancer talk organised by the welfare office? I have never seen the union soend money on crappy posters. All posters inform students of whats going on in campus.
Or on free drinks? Perhaps for a class social so people can get to know their class better? Better then a bus thats bringing only a hanadful of UCD students and a few non-students to a protest about oil in Mayo.

abelard

abelard wrote:

Was it a decision voted on by council themselves, or did it come down from USI or something like that?

USI motions don't automatically bind all member colleges. For example, although USI Congress voted to support the Coke ban/boycott (delete as appropriate) all constituent organisations are not bound by this.

Byrno

singingstranger wrote:

To be honest, I think this motion is symptomatic of most of the problems with Council - which are that its votes, and the consequential directions that the Union ultimately takes, are entirely to do with Class Reps ignoring their Constitutional duty to consult with their constituents for every single motion. The idea of having a parity in the number of constituents for each Rep is supposed to make Council votes act like an electoral college - but every Rep is supposed to vote exactly as the majority of the people they represent tell them to. There's a good reason why the deadline for submitting motions is a full week before Council meetings, and there's a damn good reason why I had to spend every alternate Wednesday out of Council in front of a laptop sending out a hundred or more emails to Councillors and publishing the stories on the newswire - it was so that Councillors could liaise with their constituents and get THEM to vote on how things were supposed to be.

Aside from the drudgery of having to type stuff out, the one thing that always frustrated me beyond belief was that there was even ever a need for debate at all. People are supposed to have been told how to vote. And - this will be unusually blunt of me - I'm fed up with situations where people run for Class Rep and bargain themselves off with their class, agreeing to stay out of their way if they're allowed carte blanche to do whatever they like. I know this has been the genuine case in at least one instance, and the result is the Rep in question having sat on Council and put forward motions that - if mood on the ground, on Boards or anywhere else is to be acknowledged - would be shot down immediately by the bulk of their constituents. I would LOVE if there was a system where Class Reps could only be afforded voting privileges if they could prove (collect the signatures of X number of classmates, perhaps) they had liaised with their constituents on how they were to vote.

I'd like everyone reading this - all the non-Reps, although the new ones can include themselves too - to think about this for just a second. How many of you can honestly say you've always known the identity of your class/Council rep? And how many of you have ever had your Rep come to one of your classes, tell you what motions were up for the next Council meeting, and seek a mandate on how to vote at them? EVERY Class Rep (not every Councillor, but EVERY Class Rep) is supposed to do this, as part of their duty to inform their constituents of the goings-on of the Union (Article 8 of the UCDSU Constitution).

GusherING wrote:

I have to say I was dissappointed with the relatively little feed back I received but I have yet to hear a complaint from a single member within my class for my duties last year and to date his year.

I have to say that I'm with GusherING on this singingstranger and others. Firstly practically any time when I was class rep I went to my class and asked them for their opinions/how to vote on motions I received no feedback at all. It is disheartening doing it fortnight after fortnight and eventually I gave up.

Secondly it isn't practical to get in front of your class and ask them their opinion. Most wouldn't hang around for that.

Thirdly there are many times I have changed my opinion on a matter after hearing the debate on a motion, both in UCDSU and in USI. Having a preordained mandate where there would most likely have been very little debate/ill-informed debate can be counterproductive. Sometimes it is best to listen to the arguements and decide on the day. Also there are officers who have their own vote so in any situation a debate could be used to sway them.

panda100

Byrno wrote:

I have to say that I'm with GusherING on this singingstranger and others. Firstly practically any time when I was class rep I went to my class and asked them for their opinions/how to vote on motions I received no feedback at all. It is disheartening doing it fortnight after fortnight and eventually I gave up.

Secondly it isn't practical to get in front of your class and ask them their opinion. Most wouldn't hang around for that.

t.

I agree with Gushering and Byrno.It would be difficult to ask a class about every single motion at council so this is where class reps have to use their initative. My initative would tell me that the shell to sea campaign is not a matter which affects the vast majority of my class or the student body and therfore union funds should not be wasted on it. If there is not enough intrested students to fill at least one bus then I think I could safely say I made the right descision for my class.

abelard

In voting for a class rep, i do think you have to put a level of trust in this person to use their discretion to do their best on your behalf. It would be a nice perfect democracy if every rep got an opinion from every student and acted on the majority but as has been said it will never happen (barring a most incredible upsurge in interest and support for the general student body). For major policy decisions it is much more important to get as much opinion as you can, but for an issue like this I think it better to vote as you believe is best for your constitiueants, and as has been said, let them hold you accountable, as it is your responsibility.

Jonny Arson

panda100 wrote:

Last week a minority of UCD students underneath the UCDSU banner infiltrated the Shell headquarters in Leeson street. They climbed onto the roof and entered the building illegally,they did this in the name of the UCDSU as the banner was clearly visble.

Panda, I know I'm being picky but do you have any concrete evidence for this or is it just word of mouth? If that is true that is an utter ****ing shameful disgrace. Using the UCDSU banner to express their own political agenda is one thing, using the UCDSU banner (don't forget which represents ALL of us) while breaking the law is vile. If this is true, the lot of them should reported to Dan Hayden and hopefully be kicked out the UCDSU.

beanyb

I'm just going to back up GusherING since he's my class rep and I'm well aware of the fact that he is. He and our other rep last year did a great job in letting everyone know who they were and generally what they were doing. Most students dont really care about the inner workings of the union, but if anything came up that would directly affect us as a class they let us know. They did a great job. I dont envy your task this year either since there arent any politics classes in which everyone is together, good luck with that!

Having said that however, I do believe that he is in the minority in this. In my other class, history, I had no idea who my class rep was (though i do this year - HappyCrackHead, but that's only from here) and never heard anything from them. Any friends I have in other classes generally have no idea who their reps are either.

I dont think people expect to be asked what their class rep should vote on every motion and tbh it would be unpractical and would probably just annoy everyone. However, it would be nice if they could simply let people know who they are once they're elected!

OT: the money for the bus in ridiculous. good work panda for highlighting it here!

Het-Field

If members on Council have a problem with the Rossport issue, they should revoke the support of the Union by bringing a motion to council. When I sat on council certain issues were divisive. i was willing to support any UCD student who may have ended up on the wrongside of the law, but anybody else could go and rot. It has nothing to do with the union. These men were threatened with jail, and they chose to ignore that threat. The law is there for a reason. In Rossport many people have been forced not to go to work by the mounds of pickiters who turn up at the sight every day. If people want to work, they should be allowed to work without arrogant protestors from Dublin and all over the country telling them about a situation that many know little or nothing about.

The Union is acting outside of its jurisdiction here. If people want to go out in a personal capacity, I have no problem with that, but by invoking the union's name, one ensures that the will of all 22,000 students is attached to that action. Im sure the situation in Rossport (if properly discussed) would be as divisive as abortion or immigration. We will all have our own opinions

People talk about solidarity with other unions, however, the quicker we realise that a students union is for students and student issues, the better it will be. We are a very different type of Union to Jackie O Conner and SIPTU. SIPTU reprersent people who are creating a livelyhood by working, and they need a union to represent them. As students we are faced with different situations. UCDSU should be setting up drives to get more second hand books which students can buy, it should be opening up and encouraging new competitive business which will ensure that the price of a sandwich shall be as low as possible. Furthermore, we need strong and sometimes belligerant leaders who will represent us when the college authorities try to manipulate and mess with the structures and makeups of college courses.

It should not be used as a tool to further political ends. There are copious amounts of political parties in UCD through which one can express their points of view. (One in particular (i dont know which), who defaced the YPDS stand on freshers week). The Union should be about students and not about ridiculous issues which dont effect them at all

tintinr35

beanyb wrote:

I'm just going to back up GusherING since he's my class rep and I'm well aware of the fact that he is. He and our other rep last year did a great job in letting everyone know who they were and generally what they were doing. Most students dont really care about the inner workings of the union, but if anything came up that would directly affect us as a class they let us know. They did a great job. I dont envy your task this year either since there arent any politics classes in which everyone is together, good luck with that!

Having said that however, I do believe that he is in the minority in this. In my other class, history, I had no idea who my class rep was (though i do this year - HappyCrackHead, but that's only from here) and never heard anything from them. Any friends I have in other classes generally have no idea who their reps are either.

I dont think people expect to be asked what their class rep should vote on every motion and tbh it would be unpractical and would probably just annoy everyone. However, it would be nice if they could simply let people know who they are once they're elected!

OT: the money for the bus in ridiculous. good work panda for highlighting it here!

Beanyb, i am in the same class as u and i went to 95% of my lectures last year and i dont remember our class rep addressing us at any stage before or after lectures, you say he kept us informed.......i was never kept informed by any class rep i dont even know who ours was! let me just confirm with my mates that are in our class tomorrow if they remember, maybe i was absent when all this information about union stuff was portrayed but im almost certain there was never anything said!! (i could be wrong)