Union funds on bus to camp

nando

I have left ucd now but afaik my class never had a class rep in my five years there. I don't think any other year in my course did either except the first
years last year. Basically the union had absolutely no discernible impact on student life in my course. We never heard anything about it really.

We did elect class reps, but these were to deal with lecturers within our own faculty as some staff/student meetings were held. These meetings and reps made a difference.

Every year the election candidates turned up for one day to say how they would ensure that we would be more included in future but I never saw any sign of it.

Yes, if we were to get involved things might change but I think there is generally a feeling of ignorance and apathy towards the union and nobody really sees how getting involved would have any real effect on them.

OT, if I was still there I would definitely not agree with union money being spent on a bus for a handful of people to get what they want.

boneless

From reading throught the posts in this thread I get the feeling that there is an alienation factor in the equation.

People hear of decisions being taken at Council or other forums but have had no idea that certain issues were being discussed and decided on. Thus, when the actions of such decisions become known, there is a reaction to them on the lines of the above thread.

I do not want to attack people personally here but I have said it before many times; the Union is only as good as the participation of the general membership. This participation is low in UCD. The low turnout in elections is the best indicator of this. Having said this though, I believe the SU should make more of an effort to communicate with the general membership and endeavour to assess the feelings of this more important body of the union.

I spent 15 years as a union rep in the "real world" (yes, my tongue is firmly in my cheek here), and was lucky enough to belong to a branch where the interest level was high. This ensured a greater spread of ideologies being represented in the election of officers and in the decisions taken by them. Maybe an awareness campaign of the issues pertaining to membership and participation in the union should be the way forward then. Would anyone else agree with this.

OT... due to the fact that the Shell to Sea issue is already on the union agenda, the SU did nothing wrong in hiring the bus.

GusherING

tintinr35 wrote:

Beanyb, i am in the same class as u and i went to 95% of my lectures last year and i dont remember our class rep addressing us at any stage before or after lectures, you say he kept us informed.......i was never kept informed by any class rep i dont even know who ours was! let me just confirm with my mates that are in our class tomorrow if they remember, maybe i was absent when all this information about union stuff was portrayed but im almost certain there was never anything said!! (i could be wrong)

I'm afraid you are wrong mate!! I'm not lying! I find it misfortunate that you never heard me speak to the class. Please feel free to PM me anytime if you have a problem. I can also make my email and mobile no. available if you wish to contact me directly. I intend to address all the 3rd Politics classes next week (if I can find all of them :rolleyes: !!) so keep an eye out!

Oh and thanks beanyb for the kind words.

Chinafoot

boneless wrote:

OT... due to the fact that the Shell to Sea issue is already on the union agenda, the SU did nothing wrong in hiring the bus.

Yeah but why is it on the union agenda? This question has been asked more than once on this thread and no answer given.

I agree that interest is low among the majority of the student population, but this doesn't excuse the fact that those "representing" the students are getting themselves involved in issues that do not directly affect the students of the college. These issues should not be on the union agenda and money that can go elsewhere should definitely not be spend on transporting the protestors across the country.

I have to agree with Paddy:

Het-Field wrote:

The Union is acting outside of its jurisdiction here. If people want to go out in a personal capacity, I have no problem with that, but by invoking the union's name, one ensures that the will of all 22,000 students is attached to that action. Im sure the situation in Rossport (if properly discussed) would be as divisive as abortion or immigration. We will all have our own opinions

People talk about solidarity with other unions, however, the quicker we realise that a students union is for students and student issues, the better it will be. We are a very different type of Union to Jackie O Conner and SIPTU. SIPTU reprersent people who are creating a livelyhood by working, and they need a union to represent them. As students we are faced with different situations. UCDSU should be setting up drives to get more second hand books which students can buy, it should be opening up and encouraging new competitive business which will ensure that the price of a sandwich shall be as low as possible. Furthermore, we need strong and sometimes belligerant leaders who will represent us when the college authorities try to manipulate and mess with the structures and makeups of college courses.

It should not be used as a tool to further political ends. There are copious amounts of political parties in UCD through which one can express their points of view. (One in particular (i dont know which), who defaced the YPDS stand on freshers week). The Union should be about students and not about ridiculous issues which dont effect them at all

He's bang on there.

The_Minister

boneless wrote:

OT... due to the fact that the Shell to Sea issue is already on the union agenda, the SU did nothing wrong in hiring the bus.

That is a very, VERY dodgy thing to say, whether there is a mandate or not is really open to interpretation.

Chakar

Theres a Lawsoc Shell debate with the motion "That this House would send Shell out to Sea".Its on Thursday

Barry Colfer is speaking on the proposition side.I might do the debate too I'll see.

panda100

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Panda, I know I'm being picky but do you have any concrete evidence for this or is it just word of mouth? If that is true that is an utter ****ing shameful disgrace. Using the UCDSU banner to express their own political agenda is one thing, using the UCDSU banner (don't forget which represents ALL of us) while breaking the law is vile. If this is true, the lot of them should reported to Dan Hayden and hopefully be kicked out the UCDSU.

Yes.The union banner was most definalty there at this protest. Actually it wasnt so much a protest as breaking and entering into shell headquarters on leeson street. Read the second page of the tribune......

Edited to say:here is links where if you scroll down a good bit the UCDSU banner can be clearly seenon the railing beside shell headquarters
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/78969

Anyway as I said I am not letting this matter lie.Its time we got justice for the students.
As for the debate on Thursday,I most certainly am not denying that shell should be put out to see and I really feel for the people of Rossport. However, this is not a UCD problem and therfore hundreds of euro of students money should not be helping it.

boneless

The_Minister wrote:

That is a very, VERY dodgy thing to say, whether there is a mandate or not is really open to interpretation.

Cuold you elaborate please?

AngelofFire

Het-Field wrote:

If members on Council have a problem with the Rossport issue, they should revoke the support of the Union by bringing a motion to council. When I sat on council certain issues were divisive. i was willing to support any UCD student who may have ended up on the wrongside of the law, but anybody else could go and rot. It has nothing to do with the union. These men were threatened with jail, and they chose to ignore that threat. The law is there for a reason. In Rossport many people have been forced not to go to work by the mounds of pickiters who turn up at the sight every day. If people want to work, they should be allowed to work without arrogant protestors from Dublin and all over the country telling them about a situation that many know little or nothing about.

The Union is acting outside of its jurisdiction here. If people want to go out in a personal capacity, I have no problem with that, but by invoking the union's name, one ensures that the will of all 22,000 students is attached to that action. Im sure the situation in Rossport (if properly discussed) would be as divisive as abortion or immigration. We will all have our own opinions

People talk about solidarity with other unions, however, the quicker we realise that a students union is for students and student issues, the better it will be. We are a very different type of Union to Jackie O Conner and SIPTU. SIPTU reprersent people who are creating a livelyhood by working, and they need a union to represent them. As students we are faced with different situations. UCDSU should be setting up drives to get more second hand books which students can buy, it should be opening up and encouraging new competitive business which will ensure that the price of a sandwich shall be as low as possible. Furthermore, we need strong and sometimes belligerant leaders who will represent us when the college authorities try to manipulate and mess with the structures and makeups of college courses.

It should not be used as a tool to further political ends. There are copious amounts of political parties in UCD through which one can express their points of view. (One in particular (i dont know which), who defaced the YPDS stand on freshers week). The Union should be about students and not about ridiculous issues which dont effect them at all

Paddy i find the above a bit hypocritical, given the fact that in the past you have been supportive of issues like showing solidarity with Niall Dolan's arrest, you even marched under the union banner at the Irish ferries march last year. Talk about changing one's tune.

panda100

AngelofFire wrote:

Paddy i find the above a bit hypocritical, given the fact that in the past you have been supportive of issues like showing solidarity with Niall Dolan's arrest, you even marched under the union banner at the Irish ferries march last year. Talk about changing one's tune.

The question here Chris isnt about calling Paddy a hypocrit or whatever.ThaIt really doesnt help or solvethe situation at hand.
Id like to hear your opinion on this as I presume you are someone who agrees with the union spending money on the bus to Rossport?Im intrested to hear why you think that money was better spent bringing a handful of UCD students and some non-students (from what I gather) to Rossport then perhaps the union channeling it into other more pressing student needs?

pigeonbutler

I'm considering something at the moment.... And I'm wondering if there is widespread support for it.... So I'm particularly interested in what council members on here (and others) think. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post in the thread.

What I'm thinking is looking back a couple of years at all the controversial mandates passed by council e.g. supporting anti-deportation protests, shell to sea, etc. And proposing a motion to withdraw mandates of support for all of those. I'll be willing to take it in parts if people at council want to support some but oppose others.

Anyhoo... discuss!

AngelofFire

panda100 wrote:

The question here Chris isnt about calling Paddy a hypocrit or whatever.ThaIt really doesnt help or solvethe situation at hand.
Id like to hear your opinion on this as I presume you are someone who agrees with the union spending money on the bus to Rossport?Im intrested to hear why you think that money was better spent bringing a handful of UCD students and some non-students (from what I gather) to Rossport then perhaps the union channeling it into other more pressing student needs?

The Union has been mandated to Support the Community of rossport by two motions passed democratically in council. If anyone wants to bring a motin changing UCDSU's stance in that regard, i ask them to put their money where their mouth is and do so, that person may not have my agreement but they will have my respect for having the balls to do so. Pigeon butler you mentioned the union taking stances on students arrested at deportation marches etc, again these were passed democratically in UCDSU council and those who wish to change those stances, should bring motions forward in order to do so. If one doesn't wish to participate in the democratic process then one abdicate's one's right to complain.

As regards pressing student issues, you're dead right of course they need to be addressed. They record of many of the people who attended the march on adressing student issues in the past has been second to none, Dermot, Jane, Paul, Enda etc and have sadly been better than many officers in the current administration and many of those voicing criticism about the unions stance on rossport.

Vainglory

I would just like to state how disgusting I think it is that UCDSU is involving itself in matters which do not directly affect students. All this Fair Trade bull**** needs to be taken up by people who care about it in their own time. What if I don't agree with Fair Trade? My union being involved in this means its not representing me. Fair Trade may be all well and good but it's not an issue directly affecting students so it has no place in a students union; why was it even discussed at Class Rep training last weekend???

Also, I think the attendance at last week's Car Parking meeting made it clear; this is not an issue that students care about. If only 10 people care enough to turn up to a general Union meeting on the subject out of a possible 22,000 then why are we even bothering with it???

I expect everyone will support me in these two opinions.

cast_iron

peachypants wrote:

Yeah but why is it on the union agenda? This question has been asked more than once on this thread and no answer given.

These issues should not be on the union agenda and money that can go elsewhere should definitely not be spend on transporting the protestors across the country.

Here, here.

Unless a large number of students have stated that it is an issue for them, then by defn it's not a student issue so shouldn't be on any SU agenda.

The UCDSU is there to represent the UCD students. Can anyone point out what the gas pipe in Mayo has to do with the UCD students in Belfield? (All ready asked, i know).

Who proposed this to be put on the agenda? It must be on record.

Vainglory

cast_iron wrote:

Unless a large number of students have stated that it is an issue for them, then by defn it's not a student issue so shouldn't be on any SU agenda.

Completely agree. Also, why is the union bothering wasting time on issues such as the cancellation of small classes like Early Irish? These classes are very small, and as a result no interest in these issues has been shown by a large number of students. As the above poster has shown, therefore it's not a student issue and so shouldn't be on any SU agenda.

Chinafoot

Ah sarcasm, how very productive of you. Still doesn't answer the question though.

Next time, edit your posts quicker.

Vainglory

peachypants wrote:

Ah sarcasm, how very productive of you. Still doesn't answer the question though.

Next time, edit your posts quicker.

It doesn't answer why everyone is up in arms about Shell to Sea but not about Fair Trade either..

Not a student issue...tick yes for both.
Not directly affecting students...tick yes for both.
Mandated support from Council...tick yes for Shell to Sea, no for Fair Trade.

Hmm.

gubbie

Vainglory wrote:

Completely agree. Also, why is the union bothering wasting time on issues such as the cancellation of small classes like Early Irish? These classes are very small, and as a result no interest in these issues has been shown by a large number of students. As the above poster has shown, therefore it's not a student issue and so shouldn't be on any SU agenda.

I do know you're being sarcastic cos I read the other one before you edited it but most the difference is that Early Irish is a student education issue-its one of those things that people believe if we let the college get away with this one then who's to know what other courses they'll drop. I believe the Shell to Sea thing has as much to do with students as the fact that they want to build an incinerator down in Cork. I'd say theres at least a couple of hundred people who would be affected by that so can you grab you peeps, I'll grab mine and we'll meet down in Currabinny woods where we can start off our protest...

Theres so many topics that come under the "Some students are affected" that we can't deal with all of them, mainly cos we don't have the time. I encourage ye guys and think its great that you're doing something that 99.8% of people in the college couldn't be bothered with but there is a reason why people aren't bothered in it. I think its things like this though that make students think that the college isn't doing anything for them but instead helping out Mayo county board.

Chinafoot

Vainglory wrote:

It doesn't answer why everyone is up in arms about Shell to Sea but not about Fair Trade either..

Not a student issue...tick yes for both.
Not directly affecting students...tick yes for both.
Mandated support from Council...tick yes for Shell to Sea, no for Fair Trade.

Hmm.

Hmmm wasn't the whole fair trade campaign something that was started by one of the societies (World Aid soc) and then the Union attached themselves to it? (That's a genuine question so correct me if I'm wrong)

Bit of a diffrence between providing fair trade products on campus (yes, students should have as many product options as possible available to them on campus) and paying €250 to bring a group of people - some of whom aren't even UCD students - across the country to protest over this issue.

So you tell me, how does this Shell to Sea campaign affect the students?

gubbie

peachypants wrote:

Hmmm wasn't the whole fair trade campaign something that was started by one of the societies (World Aid soc) and then the Union attached themselves to it? (That's a genuine question so correct me if I'm wrong)

Bit of a diffrence between providing fair trade products on campus (yes, students should have as many product options as possible available to them on campus) and paying €250 to bring a group of people - some of whom aren't even UCD students - across the country to protest over this issue.

So you tell me, how does this Shell to Sea campaign affect the students?

I always got the impression that World Aid soc did start it up. Its been something they've been putting their whole effort into and I think the su are just giving their support because they are such a small group.

May I also add that the person giving the presentation group was a world aider and I think the ideas that was brought up would be better dealt by the World Aid soc with help from the SU then the SU taking it purely based on themselves.

Its support that the SU gives them, not money

panda100

AngelofFire wrote:

The Union has been mandated to Support the Community of rossport by two motions passed democratically in council. If anyone wants to bring a motin changing UCDSU's stance in that regard, i ask them to put their money where their mouth is and do so,.

Yes we know all this. No one is doubting that the motions regarding shell were not passed democratically. I just want to know do you Chris, as the arts programme officer, feel its right,and why, that students money should go on funding buses to Rossport rather then using the money for other student needs?

AngelofFire wrote:

As regards pressing student issues, you're dead right of course they need to be addressed. They record of many of the people who attended the march on adressing student issues in the past has been second to none, Dermot, Jane, Paul, Enda etc .

Once again no one is denying this. Many students, past and present, have done great things for UCD. This doesnt give them the right though to use students money for an event that they want to go too.

Vainglory wrote:

These classes are very small, and as a result no interest in these issues has been shown by a large number of students.

I dont think thats what cast Iron meant when he said that if a matter only affects a small minority of students than its not a union concern. For example, Physically disabled students are in a small minority on this campus.However,im sure everyone would agree that just cos there in a minority doesnt mean they dont deserve union help and resources in making their life easier in UCD.
Same for the Early Irish.Of course this should be a matter of importance to the SU.It directly affects students education and so students should be able to call on the union for help.

As for fair trade and the union....
As GUbbie said,its support the SU gives the fair trade campaign not money.This was fundamentally a world aid soc campaign and the majority of any money required for this campaign would have come straight form world aids soc bank account. Saying that hardly any money would have been needed on this campaign as it was generally just non-union individuals,like myself, persuading the owners of food outlets in Belfield to change to fair trade. As for discussing it at class rep training then I think its important the union did so. Class reps should be informed of such things. Just like they should know why UCD is now a nestle and Coke free university.In much the same way class reps should be informed of why UCD has gone fair trade.
Spending 250 euro of students money providing yourself with transport all the way down to Mayo to clash with Shell?I think that is an entirely differnet matter

elmyra

Vainglory wrote:

Also, I think the attendance at last week's Car Parking meeting made it clear; this is not an issue that students care about. If only 10 people care enough to turn up to a general Union meeting on the subject out of a possible 22,000 then why are we even bothering with it???

I expect everyone will support me in these two opinions.

Apologies for going off topic but I had absolutely no idea that this meeting was on and would definitely have been there had I known, along with at least 5 or six others that I know.

cast_iron

As Panda said, it's not the actual number of students that matters in all cases.
The number be relevant on non-student matters (eg. a pipe in Maoy, dump in Cork)
These matters will not affect us here in UCD, but i don't think that that should mean a blanket ban on the SU from supporting or acting on there behalf - but ONLY if (a good number of) students have said it's what they want.

The SU is there to serve us, the students - not themselves (or what they think is "good" for us.)

Incidentally, how big was the bus? Seems like a good price for a trip to Mayo.

Stabshauptmann

panda100 wrote:

Yes we know all this. No one is doubting that the motions regarding shell were not passed democratically. I just want to know do you feel its right,and why

Now I make no secret of the fact that I have never been an activist. Ive never given talks on the likes of Shell to Sea, War in Iraq, World AIDs day , Centralised Grants etc.
There are a lot of campaigns the union runs. Some I think are reasonable and good natured - World AIDs day, some I think can make a difference - Coke boycott. Some I think are irrelevent to me, to my class mates and to students in general. But I recognise at least that many other students prob feel that way about issues I care about. Thats why we have democratic votes and pass motions.

Once again no one is denying this. This doesnt give them the right though to use students money for an event that they want to go too.

This what I mean by stupid games. An "event". You make it sound like a party when you've already been presented with conclusive evidence that its not.

It also does look like you are deciding what campaigns are and are not worthwhile for the union based on very little and contradicions.

Class reps should be informed of such things. Just like they should know why UCD is now a nestle and Coke free university.In much the same way class reps should be informed of why UCD has gone fair trade.
Spending 250 euro of students money providing yourself with transport all the way down to Mayo to clash with Shell?I think that is an entirely differnet matter

You say there are some people involved in this campaign who've done good work else where, I can infer Enda Duffy and Fair Trade as one example.

By the logic that Shell to Sea isnt a student issue and thus the SU should have nothing to do with it, Fair trade isnt either. I fail to see how either boycott or the fair trade campaign have anything to do with UCD students welfare or education. They are no more relevent than the Shell to Sea campaign. If anything they are less relevent as they are not even Irish issues.

Thats not exactly my opinion, I think fair trade is a good thing and as a member of the center bar management committee Paddy here (Ive stoped using Podge i think) is going to try an introduce a fair trade product range. Not that its relevent to me as I dont even drink beer. And it wont be relevent to many others. But its worthwhile.

pigeonbutler

I'm not proposing a blanket ban on SU involvment in the "non-student issues" Such a sh1t description by the way. For example were the government to attempt to enact a change in the voting age to 21, prohibition of alcohol(!!!) or (under a michael noonan type of FG government) a ban on hoodies in public places, these sort of issues would have huge student opposition and students would be crying out for their Union to be involved, and I absolutely wouldn't have a problem with this.

What I do have a problem with is national political issues that most students couldn't care less about being supported by minority voices on council and other councillors abstaining or going along with it cuz they couldn't care less either.

hullaballoo

AngelofFire and cast_iron banned for three days for failing to post in the SU affiliation thread.

I told you it was mandatory.

Het-Field

AngelofFire wrote:

Paddy i find the above a bit hypocritical, given the fact that in the past you have been supportive of issues like showing solidarity with Niall Dolan's arrest, you even marched under the union banner at the Irish ferries march last year. Talk about changing one's tune.

I can understand why you feel that way Chris. I realise that in this case I have not kept consistent with my previous views. However, I have always been critical of the union involving themselves in such affairs as the Rossport Issue. The difference between the Niall Dolan and Irish Ferries issues is that it has no ramifications whatsoever on the general student populace. Niall is a student of UCD, and as a student deserves some monetary support if he is a bit short and needs to pay something. The Irish Ferries thing was also a key student issue. At stake were things like the partnership agreements and the Minimum wage agreements. If Eamonn Rothwell was allowed do what he likes, whats to stop the like of Michael O Leary following suit. Remeber college students and the youth are the workers of tomorrow.


However, I have vehemently opposed the union being used as an apparatus with which people can convey their political views. As such, I spoke against lending Union support for those Colling Constructioin Employees who chose to break the court injunction.The Rossport issue should be viewed in a similar light. As far as Im concerned the jury is still out. While there are many against the pipline, there is also many who are in agreement with it. To lend Union support one way or another on this issue, it defeats the purpose of a union.

Furthermore, I would disagree with certain motions which were passed when the union was full of those fromnthe WSM, and the SWP. I do recall a picture of a anti deportation picket outside the Progressive Democrats HQ in St Fredrick Street. In amongst the various banners and protestors, there was the UCDSU banner. Now that is not on. Id like to point out that various members of UCDSU happen to be members of the Progressive Democrats (if I was still a member of UCDSU i could claim that from a personal point of view). Again its not a students union, if the students are not unionised. You must remeber that not all people are in favour of open borders.

I have said it before that using the union as a way of furthering extra political ends is not a good thing. It will serve to divide the union and people will become more and more apathetic. The idea of the union paying for a bus, which might I add contained non ucd members, is something which will have the general student populace thinking, "what a waste of money, is that what im paying my subscription for".

Im not against aunion campaigning on outside issues (like helping members out financilally, or on the irish ferries issue,m which could have caused serious trouble for the workers of the future). But this issue is just too far removed from stdents for it to warrent any union time or money

Vainglory

Just to clarify on a quick point..

3 non-UCD students were on the bus to Rossport. Everyone else was a UCD student.

1. If non-UCD students had not been able to avail of the three remaining places then UCD students would have had to pay for the empty seats, thus bringing the price up for them.

2. Each of the three non-UCD students paid more than the UCD students. They paid 30 euro while UCD students paid 20.

3. The fact that we did not entirely fill the bus does not mean there is no interest in the issue in UCD. We had very little time to publicise it. In addition to this, people had lectures/labs/tutorials on Friday that they couldn't miss. And as was shown in the case of the poor attendance at the car parking meeting, numbers do not always indicate support.

In relation to Peachypants' question, I have posted extensively both on boards.ie and on ucdsu.net before on my reasons for thinking that the Union should get involved in student issues, student issues being issues that students care about enough to get active on. If you look at my previous posts or search for my name on the ucdsu.net newswire you will find these posts. To be honest I am really, really busy with college and have no desire to repeat myself on threads like this ad nauseum when I have outlined my views on this and similar matters many times before to people who will never change their minds on the topic (as I never will either) no matter what I say.

Blush_01

Well our local municipal dump was supposed to close down almost a decade ago. It's polluting our area and the smell of methane in the air, especially on frosty mornings like this morning, is almost vomit inducing.

I want a cheap trip home, anyone else fancy picketing the dump before I make tea and scones for all in Tipperary? SU sponsored, of course.

Give us all a break.

panda100

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

This what I mean by stupid games. An "event". You make it sound like a party when you've already been presented with conclusive evidence that its not.

In no way on these boards did I want to infer that the 'event' in Rossport was a party If you feel I am playing a stupid game by asking for student opinions on this thread then please tell me how?

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

It also does look like you are deciding what campaigns are and are not worthwhile for the union based on very little and contradicions.

I dont think I am.I suppose I see campaigns in very black and white. Those that affect UCD and UCD students and those that do not. The 'shell to sea' campaign is one that I feel does not. Also as I said at the beginning of the thread I do not want to discuss the worthiness or not of the shell to sea campaign. I wanted to discuss the use of union money on transport to help the shell to sea campaign. The fair trade 'campaign' really cant be compared to it in any way as I dont remember any union motion dictating that valuble students money be used for it. The fair trade campaign was always a campaign run by world aid soc with union support to publicise it. Also as peachy said it gave the student better coffee and tea and more fair trade snacks to choose from. How does the shell to sea campiagn help/affect UCD students?[/QUOTE]

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

You say there are some people involved in this campaign who've done good work else where, I can infer Enda Duffy and Fair Trade as one example.

Did he?I think you maybe confusing the end the rip of campaign with our successes in making UCD fair trade university.
Also what I meant by that was there have been many men and women who have done great things for UCD. I take my brother as an example,in which he gave utmost commitment to UCD gaa during studying for his medical degree. That doesnt mean he would have asked Union council for the money for the bus to go and support UCD down in Cork for a match.Even though UCD need the support pretty desperatly.He has slightly more initative and respect for students money then that.

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Thats not exactly my opinion, I think fair trade is a good thing and as a member of the center bar management committee Paddy here (Ive stoped using Podge i think) is going to try an introduce a fair trade product range. Not that its relevent to me as I dont even drink beer. And it wont be relevent to many others. But its worthwhile.

Fair play to ya paddy.More variety in the bar has to be a good thing