[News video] Bush signs Miliary commissions act

Steveire

Here's a recent special newspiece about the recent signing. I don't think it is completely in law yet:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5517942312906824233

"Under this law, the only thing keeping [anyone] out of Guantanamo is the sanity and honest of the president of the United States"

Is this really as significant as the commentator says, and really something that should be worried about? He says Bush has the power of a despotic ruler with the signing of this new law.

Is there a bigger picture that is not being shown in the special? I have vague memories of other news pieces claiming that Bush has been eroding freedom in the name of freedom. What do you think is really happening?

Hobbes

Basically it boils down to this. If your not American you have no rights at all and they can torture the fuk out of you.

However anyone in the US can be charged in a way that they loose thier citizenship, once that happens they have no way to challange it ever again.

It really is a sad day for America. And without whining of Godwins law people really need to start to look at pre-WWII Germany. Hitler didn't start shipping people off to concentration camps straight away. Everything happened in inches and that is what is happening in America at the moment. Death in inches.

The only thing I can think of is how is Bush going to top this one. He seems to be able to do it everytime.

RE*AC*TOR

Follow-up editorial/comment from Olbermann...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uqxmPjB0WSs

In any other country there would be revolt.

humanji

It's probably just my paranoia, but I'm expecting a huge "terrorist" attack coming up to the end of Bush's reign, to which he'll somehow manage to hang on to the presidency indefinately. He's a bit like the Emperor in Star Wars, come to think of it. I'd laugh if it wasn't so disturbing.

Akrasia

18 days and counting until the republicans steal another election.

Frederico

Does anyone here support this act?

Dr Galen

this is some serious stuff. Olbermann is in full flow there, with some scary scary stuff.

but the question is, are ordinary decent americans listening and responding to this kind of thing? otherwise our opinions are pretty much worthless in the US administrations eyes

MrJoeSoap

Disgusting. But not as disgusting as the fact that this isn't all over the news.

Dr Galen

not the mainstream ok, but is all over utube, which as we all know is fast becoming the way that a large slice of the populus get their news

MrJoeSoap

Well I'd imagine that I'm the only person in my family who now knows about it. I'm sure my friends haven't heard of it either.

Hopefully the mainstream media will pick up on it. If I hadn't clicked this thread I wouldn't have seen it, and I use YouTube a lot.

lostexpectation

I dunno I find it hard to take olberman seriously becuase he's engaged in so much banter about O'reilly etc, even though ,as its been noted by several articles more young men watch stewart for their daily news then anything else,

did anyone see belinger say the us would love to empty gitmo back to their home countries but they won't take em, which could be true but why not simply put them back on full america soil and give em trials eh?


its does make me despair this and woner why bother with anything, I know things have never been better, and things go up and down all the time, but I always thought this kind of thing happened in movies or farawy backward countires...

Steveire

Hobbes wrote:

Basically it boils down to this. If your not American you have no rights at all and they can torture the fuk out of you.

Olbermann seems to be saying they can do that even if you're not American.

Hobbes wrote:

It really is a sad day for America. And without whining of Godwins law people really need to start to look at pre-WWII Germany. Hitler didn't start shipping people off to concentration camps straight away. Everything happened in inches and that is what is happening in America at the moment. Death in inches.

Right. He made it legal first, then it was a simple case of following what was already in law. Do you think Bush is motivated the same way? Not in the sense of an ethnic cleansing, but in wanting to control the freedoms of anyone he chooses?

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

In any other country there would be revolt.

I think if this happened in another country, America would be dropping bombs by now. Well, a country of evil-doers at least.

nurse_baz wrote:

but the question is, are ordinary decent americans listening and responding to this kind of thing?

I just read about it randomly in an american blog which is otherwise unrelated to this kind of thing. The guy apologises on behalf of his government. He immediately got comments accusing him of being anti-american from people who believe it's right to sacrifice freedom for an increase in security (But whose security, their own or their government?). I'd reckon this is a microcosm of what the public opinion is in America, but I really have no idea. I don't read American news, and this kind of thing wouldn't generally catch my attention.

I don't know how reputable Olbermann is either. Someone on that same blog compared him to Jon Steward. I don't see the connection myself. I had a quick google, and found amnesty international covering the story in a bad light. I thought it was the job of AI to make a lot of noise about this kind of thing. It directly violates the Geneva Convention doesn't it? Most of the results I found on googlenews were from indymedia types or the socialist network news. Here's the fox news coverage: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,221967,00.html

I really thought this would get more better coverage than that, given the way Olbermann treats it.

Hobbes

watching cnn in Korea the other day it got a mention but more as a foot note and not explaining what Haebus Corpus is. It covered more what was allowed in regards to torture (which it was a bit vague on as well).

But take the patriot act for example. Can anyone remember the first time it was used against a non-terrorist? I can and it got almost no media attention at that time. As I recall a mother was making crack and got her house raided under the patriot act because they couldn't get a warrent. Ironically it got thrown out of court at that time.

This law your more likely to see people disappear. Until someone high profile disappears (like Obermann) I doubt American media will take notice.

Capt'n Midnight

I'd be more worried about the extradition precedents, where the UK has extradited people to the US but the US hasn't sent anyone back. And the UK were looking for terrorists when the US were looking for accountants who, ( I'm still not 100% clear on this ) , didn't break any UK laws. Computer crackers have also been targeted.

An extension of this could be those who threaten big business by cracking DVD encryption and stuff like that. As well as those who do things that are legal in their country but not the US.

Our gov't allowed them to use Shannon as a stop over , do you really think they wouldn't hand you over ?

It just means that US law can be applied to everyone on the planet.
But local laws don't apply to US troops.

Haebus Corpus - doesn't this mean they don't have to investigate disappearances, South America tbh.

Akrasia

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

I'd be more worried about the extradition precedents, where the UK has extradited people to the US but the US hasn't sent anyone back. And the UK were looking for terrorists when the US were looking for accountants who, ( I'm still not 100% clear on this ) , didn't break any UK laws. Computer crackers have also been targeted.

An extension of this could be those who threaten big business by cracking DVD encryption and stuff like that. As well as those who do things that are legal in their country but not the US.

Our gov't allowed them to use Shannon as a stop over , do you really think they wouldn't hand you over ?

It just means that US law can be applied to everyone on the planet.
But local laws don't apply to US troops.

Haebus Corpus - doesn't this mean they don't have to investigate disappearances, South America tbh.

And another thing that really pisses me off about American judiciary, is that they have been deporting peadophile priests back to Ireland without bothering to inform the Irish authorities that they are letting such dangerous people loose over here. it's completely disgusting, all it would take is a phone call and it might prevent some children from being raped.

RedPlanet

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

I'd be more worried about the extradition precedents, where the UK has extradited people to the US but the US hasn't sent anyone back. And the UK were looking for terrorists when the US were looking for accountants who, ( I'm still not 100% clear on this ) , didn't break any UK laws. Computer crackers have also been targeted.

An extension of this could be those who threaten big business by cracking DVD encryption and stuff like that. As well as those who do things that are legal in their country but not the US.

Our gov't allowed them to use Shannon as a stop over , do you really think they wouldn't hand you over ?

It just means that US law can be applied to everyone on the planet.
But local laws don't apply to US troops.

Haebus Corpus - doesn't this mean they don't have to investigate disappearances, South America tbh.

Lets not forget this one:
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/07/21/story463216798.asp

Capt'n Midnight

RedPlanet wrote:

Lets not forget this one:

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/07/21/story463216798.asp

About 20,000 immigrants, who have not been charged with any crime, are currently in prison in the US. In two recent US Supreme Court cases, the US Government argued that US citizens could be imprisoned indefinitely without charge if the president designated them as "enemy combatants".