The mythical eircom FWA and Wimax...

Dero

Hi all.

I recently came across this post by the ever informative square-panted one, and it raises some questions in light of the eircom Wimax anouncement.

What I'm wondering is whether the recent eircom annoncement signals an impending change in how they use their 3.5Ghz spectrum? Up to now it was next to impossible to get any info on where this kit was, never mind actually getting the service. Pricing and speed seemed designed to scare people away too. Maybe DCMNR and/or Comreg (pah!) are putting pressure on eircom over their spectrum squatting?

Now, I am just over 10km (probably closer to 12km) from one of those hills listed in Sponge Bob's post, so eircom would probably tell me for go away anyway. I am on a DSL enabled exchange, but at 7km by road, that's never going to work... What are the chances of eircom deciding to use this infrastructure to provide a decent FWA product at some point?

Currently I have broadband (1M/1M, no cap) from a 2.4Ghz operator on a hill next to the one with the eircom tower. It has problems, which is why I am interested in this, but it works, so I know that distance shouldn't be a factor. The thing is, there's no point in me looking for anything from eircom if 512k/64k is all they'll offer. Does anyone know if this speed is technically or politically limited, and is it likely to change?

Sponge Bob

Eircom wimax , I hear, will be zero install 3.5ghz (not wired installed in your house but portable ish) 12km sounds a bit far for an 802.16e (mobile wimax) device but in theory it could work , yes. At your range you may have to get an outdoor antenna like these for the ripwaves

their wimax rollout is designed to let them compete in the cities against voda/ripwave/clearwire not to provide country people with a service of any sort see here

gerryo

Sponge Bob wrote:

their wimax rollout is designed to let them compete in the cities against voda/ripwave/clearwire not to provide country people with a service of any sort see here

Interesting!, so they want to service those who sit around in cafe's drinking latte's & idly tapping on laptops, users who who won't complain much if the service is poor (blame it on the busses & buildings) & who won't be online 24/7 hammering the cache servers.

Apologies to folks who own laptops & drink posh coffee, nothing wrong with either of those activities.

Dero

Thanks Bob. So their Wimax plans (short term at least) involve an indoor Ripwave-like product. No use to me then. I realise that they couldn't care less about providing for people like me, but I was hoping to benifit from the fact that I have LOS to a 3.5Ghz enabled tower. I already have a large 2.4Ghz antenna for my current service, so I'll concentrate on getting that stable for now. I'm probably better off away from eircom anyway, even if their service proved more stable.

One interesting thing that arises from this though - how does eircom's 3.5Ghz license affect the awarding of licenses of Digiweb/IBB/lastmile et al? Can they only get licences for areas that eircom aren't interested in? Does the eircom license, being national, give them an effective veto over where other licenses are awarded?

damien

No, they won't be offering this as a mobile solution. You will only get their Wimax product if your line is failing their DSL line test and an engineer fiddling with the line still can't do anything. It won't be like ripwave where you are posted a little wireless modem with an antenna and plug it in.

uncle_sam_ie

damien.m wrote:

No, they won't be offering this as a mobile solution. You will only get their Wimax product if your line is failing their DSL line test and an engineer fiddling with the line still can't do anything. It won't be like ripwave where you are posted a little wireless modem with an antenna and plug it in.

You mean eircom will only be doing this in the major urban areas but not if you live in rural Ireland?

damien

Correct.

uncle_sam_ie

damien.m wrote:

Correct.

It's scandalous that the minister and comreg aren't giving a dam about rural Ireland. I hope you'll bring this issue up the next time your on the radio Damien. Wimax is totally being misused to consolidate eircoms monopoly.

Sponge Bob

the 3.5Ghz spectrum (and a large wimax usable block sat on by eircom around 2.3ghz) is what is misused here Uncle and has been for years by BOTH Comreg and eircom in deliberate collusion with each other. Comreg themelves are squatting a thrid block between 2.5ghz and 2.6ghz (100mhz) for the past 2 years for the same reason.

a) eircom do not want easily usable spectrum given to anyone who will make use of it with cheapish or commodity gear in the 3.5 2.3 and 2.5ghz bands.
b) eircom happily gets national allocations in these bands and carefully does nothing with them .
c) Comreg colludes fully at all times with the tactics in a) and b) and will not manage the resource properly.

Comreg spectrum allocation policies and enforcement are as fair , long sighted and intelligent as building a large septic tank in a public water reservoir.

nilhg

With regard to Dero's situation one thing what may happen is Chorus/UPC might roll out a broadband service from their site on the hill (it must be Dunmurry). Chorus co-locate there with Eircom, I live the opposite side to Dero it think.
Chorus supply a large area(most of Kildare parts of Laois, Offaly, Westmeath and Wicklow) with MMDS from there and have fairly heavy penetration.
If they can overcome previous form and actually provide a decent and stable broadband (+ VOIP?) service they could hurt Eircom.

Sponge Bob

the chunk of spectrum I referred to at 2.5ghz ( 100mhz of it) was TAKEN OFF Chorus by Comreg in mid 2004 to ensure that Chorus could not do what you suggest Nilhg see Comregs 'rationale' from late 2003 here .

Comreg have squatted it themselves since on eircoms behalf, it is eminently suitable for Wimax . . So is 2.3Ghz, eircom already has that since Comreg gave it to them in 1999/2000 or so .

Thats unused too.

nilhg

Sponge Bob wrote:

the chunk of spectrum I referred to at 2.5ghz ( 100mhz of it) was TAKEN OFF Chorus by Comreg in mid 2004 to ensure that Chorus could not do what you suggest Nilhg see Comregs 'rationale' from late 2003 here .

Comreg have squatted it themselves since on eircoms behalf, it is eminently suitable for Wimax . . So is 2.3Ghz, eircom already has that since Comreg gave it to them in 1999/2000 or so .

Thats unused too.

Its too late on a friday evening for me to go through that PDF but I understand where you are coming from, I did not explain myself properly. This area is probably better served than most by 2.4 gh wireless isp's (see attached) but they are all small and stretched to cover a small part of the people who realise that they exist, if Chorus/UPC decide that they wish to roll out a widely available broadband service in an election year (in some very tight constituencies) then maybe, just maybe some thing might happen ..... even if it is Eircom deciding that it is after all viable to connect people they had no interest in before.

Sponge Bob

This may even be happening as we speak . eircom announced that the government will be announcing _something_ soon when they announced their last tranche of exchanges.

I have no idea what.

mayhem#

I seriously doubt the validity of such a businessplan in the short term.
Even more if it's operated by the likes of Eircom...

E.

gerryo

damien.m wrote:

No, they won't be offering this as a mobile solution. You will only get their Wimax product if your line is failing their DSL line test and an engineer fiddling with the line still can't do anything.

I would imagine the vast majority of such lines are located in rural areas, so putting wireless in a large population centre for non mobile users is probably a complete waste of resources.

There is already plenty of choice in the large cities.

uncle_sam_ie

gerryo wrote:

I would imagine the vast majority of such lines are located in rural areas, so putting wireless in a large population centre for non mobile users is probably a complete waste of resources.

There is already plenty of choice in the large cities.

It's not a waste to eircom because they will increases their monopoly on the Irish market by killing off some of the smaller wireless ISP's. If only we had a regulator this wouldn't be the case.

nilhg

uncle_sam_ie wrote:

It's not a waste to eircom because they will increases their monopoly on the Irish market by killing off some of the smaller wireless ISP's. If only we had a regulator this wouldn't be the case.

The smaller wireless guys are fighting it out among themselves (see my post above), Eircom is not worried about them, it's the mid size guys who make them look bad ( and draw attention to the line rental) that they are gunning for.

It needs somebody with deep pockets to take them on and make them move.

mayhem#

This discussion raises several questions:

- Does Eircom hold a Wimax license?
- How will it be priced?
- Where are the CPE's comming from?
- What real problem does this solve?

E.

AM

In January eircom cold-called me and asked if I would be one of about 40 trial users of their new Wimax service in the Athlone area. It seemed like a good way to get broadband for nothing for 3 months so I signed up. IIRC there were a couple of download rates you could choose from so I picked the best - 2Mb/s.

The equipment was either a small self-install indoor antenna or a large drill-into-outdoor-wall antenna. I only needed the smaller antenna as I was about a half mile in a straight line from the comms tower. I couldn't understand why they would want a trial user like me who was in an area were DSL was readily available.

The start date of February 1st came and went, then March, April and so on. I forgot about it until August 1st when they phoned to say they were ready to start the trial. I was moving house the following month so there was no point accepting the offer. It wasn't available at my new address which is in a less urbanised area where Wimax would be perfect. Luckily I can still get DSL in the new house.