is rooney a tad overrated??

c m

i have this argument with friends all the time. that being that wayne rooney is good but thats about it..... they call him world class! how can you be a world class forward when in a total of 123 premiership games hes scored a fairly pathetic 42. and i know what your gona say "he sets loads up" and i thought about this and researched it. turns out he doesnt really. in the same number of games hes has 21 assists..world class?? aswell as that he hasnt scored international/champions league goals in over 2 years. hes very inconsistent, his drive to win the ball messes up his positional sense completly-infact i dont think he really has a positional sense.he is good and on form he is very good but then so are most pros. but is it not just the english media falsely building him up like they did beckham who was never THAT good.lampard too.opinions please i love this argument. oh also ronaldo is twice the player. what ya think?? do i have any likeminded people here??

Anam

c m wrote:

i have this argument with friends all the time. that being that wayne rooney is good but thats about it..... they call him world class! how can you be a world class forward when in a total of 123 premiership games hes scored a fairly pathetic 42. and i know what your gona say "he sets loads up" and i thought about this and researched it. turns out he doesnt really. in the same number of games hes has 21 assists..world class?? aswell as that he hasnt scored international/champions league goals in over 2 years. hes very inconsistent, his drive to win the ball messes up his positional sense completly-infact i dont think he really has a positional sense.he is good and on form he is very good but then so are most pros. but is it not just the english media falsely building him up like they did beckham who was never THAT good.lampard too.opinions please i love this argument. oh also ronaldo is twice the player. what ya think?? do i have any likeminded people hereb??

It was going pretty well until there.No way is ronaldo better than rooney.

He's not a number 9,goal scorer,more of a second striker.And theres more to contributing to your team than goals and assists,he creates chances and makes things happen.Theres no denying he's one of the most talented young players around,though i do agree that he has been a bit overrated.I dont agree with people saying he's second best in the world only to ronaldinho as i heard Dunphy say once.But he has amazing potential.

gimmick

Im noy a Man U fan or anything, but I honestly feel the burden of being Man Us top man and England top man, at the age of 20, has taken its toll on him.

I think he needs a rest, as he has been going at full tilt for nigh on 4 years at this point.

Maybe not world class just yet, but given time, most certainly.

c m

thats my whole point. this buisness of this unproven player being the "top man". the fact he's called that in an england shirt is a disgrace hes s**te for england. its over 800 days since hes scored yet people consider him a main goalsocring threat?????as for cristiano the 2nd most skillfull player in the world imo. hes absolutely unbelievable..talk about making chances! he terrorises defenders. hes frightningly quick and hes a great example of the english media slaughtering a player whos clearly brilliant and unlike rooney hes getting better improving all the time sorting out the bad parts of his game. a challenge; name someone( an attacker) who has played better that ronaldo this season?? i cant think of any

Jonny Arson

c m wrote:

i have this argument with friends all the time. that being that wayne rooney is good but thats about it..... they call him world class! how can you be a world class forward when in a total of 123 premiership games hes scored a fairly pathetic 42. and i know what your gona say "he sets loads up" and i thought about this and researched it. turns out he doesnt really. in the same number of games hes has 21 assists..world class?? aswell as that he hasnt scored international/champions league goals in over 2 years. hes very inconsistent, his drive to win the ball messes up his positional sense completly-infact i dont think he really has a positional sense.he is good and on form he is very good but then so are most pros. but is it not just the english media falsely building him up like they did beckham who was never THAT good.lampard too.opinions please i love this argument. oh also ronaldo is twice the player. what ya think?? do i have any likeminded people here??

Ronaldo has skill no doubt but the fact he's a lazy and selfish footballer makes him so incredibly frustrating. Ronaldo is the overrated one.

Rooney is on another level Ronaldo. Rooney is almost the complete footballer. Sure he's going through a bad patch at the moment but he's one of the few strikers in the Premiership who puts the fear into defenders. His touch, passing, heading, shooting, effort, footballing brain are all utterly exceptional..... that's talent and you don't lose that overnight. In an age of endless amounts of overrated footballers Rooney is one of the few who are the real deal. He's still young and nowhere near his peak... when he's 25 and has more experience he could well be the best in the world.

Anam

c m wrote:

thats my whole point. this buisness of this unproven player being the "top man". the fact he's called that in an england shirt is a disgrace hes s**te for england. its over 800 days since hes scored yet people consider him a main goalsocring threat?????as for cristiano the 2nd most skillfull player in the world imo. hes absolutely unbelievable..talk about making chances! he terrorises defenders. hes frightningly quick and hes a great example of the english media slaughtering a player whos clearly brilliant and unlike rooney hes getting better improving all the time sorting out the bad parts of his game. a challenge; name someone( an attacker) who has played better that ronaldo this season?? i cant think of any

Didier Drogba for one,has been very impressive so far this season.But really its early days in the season,and after a world cup so it could take a few months for most players to get back into the swing of things.No doubt ronaldo is a very good player, but for me,he still lacks end product and he makes bad crosses all too frequently

RE*AC*TOR

He's a very good player. No one can deny that. He has great physical attributes and can at times be unstoppable.

The measure of world class really should be - how many clubs are there that wouldn't have him? I'd say every club in Europe would love to have him on their books.

Sure look at Ronaldinho, he's been useless for the best part of a year. Yet some people think he's the best player in the world because he dances around the ball.

eirebhoy

He didn't do too badly last season in the goalscoring department.

27 T. Henry
21 R.v. Nistelrooy
18 D. Bent
16 R. Keane
16 W. Rooney
16 F. Lampard

Considering he was Man Utd's 2nd striker that's excellent. Add in his 9 league assists too. That is a terrific return from a 20 year old. He's more than just end product though. It's like judging Roy Keane on stats. Rooney's influence is huge too and lifts the team as a whole. I think he's a quality player.

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Sure look at Ronaldinho, he's been useless for the best part of a year. Yet some people think he's the best player in the world because he dances around the ball.

C'mon, he's more than a showboat. He's still the best in the world imo. Even in last seasons CL he scored/set up 10 goals. For the worlds most tightly marked player you can't ask for more than that.

c m

zane--- "the complete footballer"-rubbish. then how does he not score goals. i even left out his appalling champions league record. also whenever he comes up against a defense of real quality eg milan. he gets nothing because the only way he can beat people is winning ricashaes. and that doesnt work against real defenders. as for your comment that ronaldo is lazy. thats a pretty ignorant thing to say. hes not in the least bit lazy. hes very fit and tears up and down that line all game. and again ill say has been the best player in the premiership this season and rarely gives the ball away anymore.as for rooneys shooting is the most erratic thing ive ever seen! havent seen one in a while! and his "footballing brain". well like ive said positionally hes awful. for instance when he plays up front with crouch he always drops off instead of being on the last defender- obviously crouchy cant do it and he messes up the whole team that way.

Jonny Arson

c m wrote:

as for your comment that ronaldo is lazy. thats a pretty ignorant thing to say. hes not in the least bit lazy. hes very fit and tears up and down that line all game.

How is it an ingorant thing to say when he spends most of his time showboating, failing to pass to ball and rolling around the floor... that's just a fact.

super_furry

He's currently outside the top ten players in the world, but has the potential to become the best.

c m

16 goals and 9 assists from 35 games is good yeah- but its not great! gerrard is a midfielder and scored 23 goals in all competitions. thats what i call world class, not someone whos on a goalscoring par with robbie keane and worse than bent. also he plays in one of the best teams in the world and striker or not he gets an awful lot of chances. rooney should score 30 goals minimum a season in all comps to justify a world class tag.as for the ronaldihnio thing its cos hes not quite on form yet and he has an average of about 30 people kicking him every time he gets the ball. and he has proven himself lets not forget that

Paul Tergat

Not a chance he's overrated!

Anyone who has the ability to change a game like he can is a world class player...he got 16 last season as pointed out, can play as a striker or off the striker and will fight for the team (literally at times)

As an Englishman yes its bad that as a country we rely on a 20 year old but that is a mark of how special a player he is, remeber he is only 20 and the scary thing is he will improve.

World Player of the Year Winner of the future for definite.

c m

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

How is it an ingorant thing to say when he spends most of his time showboating, failing to pass to ball and rolling around the floor... that's just a fact.

youll love this....in five games this season rooney has missed 57 passes.
in seven games this season ronaldo has missed 37 passes. so no its not a bloody fact. as for rolling around thats just not that true anymore. he gets kicked! as for showboating well i like to be entertained watching football and it works ask any defender in england. i guarantee if this debate went on in a country not influenced by english media then itd be ronaldo all the way.

Royale with Cheese

p_larkin99 wrote:

Not a chance he's overrated!

remeber he is only 20 and the scary thing is he will improve.

He's not definitely going to improve. Just because of his age doesn't mean he will develop alot more. He's had 4 years of top flight football now which means he's developed quite a bit... it's not the same as some 20 year old who's just burst on the the scene.

BaZmO*

c m wrote:

zane--- "the complete footballer"-rubbish. then how does he not score goals.

Read Eirebhoy's post.

c m wrote:

the only way he can beat people is winning ricashaes

It took me a while, but do you mean ricochets? If you do well then that's just rubbish.

c m wrote:

as for your comment that ronaldo is lazy. thats a pretty ignorant thing to say. hes not in the least bit lazy. hes very fit and tears up and down that line all game.

Ronaldo is extremely lazy defensively. It's all very well tearing up and down the wing all day but as a wide midfielder you still need to get back to help your full backs, something that Ronaldo doesn't often do.

As for Rooney being over rated? Depends what you mean by over rated. I definitely do think he is World Class. As RE*AC*TOR said, there isn't too many teams in the world that he wouldn't get into. (which is actually a very good definition of World Class)

Paul Tergat

c m wrote:

zane--- "the complete footballer"-rubbish. then how does he not score goals. i even left out his appalling champions league record. also whenever he comes up against a defense of real quality eg milan. he gets nothing because the only way he can beat people is winning ricashaes. and that doesnt work against real defenders. as for your comment that ronaldo is lazy. thats a pretty ignorant thing to say. hes not in the least bit lazy. hes very fit and tears up and down that line all game. and again ill say has been the best player in the premiership this season and rarely gives the ball away anymore.as for rooneys shooting is the most erratic thing ive ever seen! havent seen one in a while! and his "footballing brain". well like ive said positionally hes awful. for instance when he plays up front with crouch he always drops off instead of being on the last defender- obviously crouchy cant do it and he messes up the whole team that way.

Are you being serious here?

Did you see his goal v Newcastle?

And have you ever thought he's told to play that way by the England manager? a formation and team talk will dictate where Rooney will be for certain moves, the problem being here is Crouch playing for England!

Ronaldo is a lazy player, it's pretty clear the only reason he tracks back is because he's told to, Rooney on the other hand will do this naturally.

c m wrote:

16 goals and 9 assists from 35 games is good yeah- but its not great! gerrard is a midfielder and scored 23 goals in all competitions. thats what i call world class, not someone whos on a goalscoring par with robbie keane and worse than bent. also he plays in one of the best teams in the world and striker or not he gets an awful lot of chances. rooney should score 30 goals minimum a season in all comps to justify a world class tag.as for the ronaldihnio thing its cos hes not quite on form yet and he has an average of about 30 people kicking him every time he gets the ball. and he has proven himself lets not forget that

Again are you being serious?

So Ronaldinho is allowed to be off form for a period of time but Rooney (who let's face it has been playin unfit and has been way off sharpness having been relied on in the WC) must be on form all the time to justify his world class tag.

Also, it's fairly hard for someone to prove themselves by the age of 20 don't ya think? Rooney gets similar if not worse treatment to Ronaldinho, managers know that man marking him would be nearly impossible but defenders kick him just as much as Ronaldinho.

eirebhoy

c m wrote:

16 goals and 9 assists from 35 games is good yeah- but its not great!

I certainly think it is for a 2nd striker at the age of 20. I'm a big fan of Gerrard. He got 10 league goals playing in a similar position to Rooney for a lot of the season.

Gillie

He's a good player but I don't like the way the Sports commentators talk about him ALL the time! Whether he's on the pitch or not.

He does score some amazing goals tho!

smemon

rooney is undoubtably world class.

is he over-rated - yes. He's English. He's one of the best in the world but you can only be so good. He's hyped up so much that everytime he touches the ball you expect a goal or defence splitting pass.

in fairness to Rooney, even now during a bad patch he's tracking back and closing down passes in the opposition half. On wednesday, he controlled the match. A cantona-like performance.

you can't deny the guy has class, brilliance, natural gifts... it's not his fault he's over-rated.

Paul Tergat

Royale with Cheese wrote:

He's not definitely going to improve. Just because of his age doesn't mean he will develop alot more. He's had 4 years of top flight football now which means he's developed quite a bit... it's not the same as some 20 year old who's just burst on the the scene.

Totally agree, my argument is not based on his age though, it's the type of player he is....it's clear to me he is still developing and being played on the right/left just off Saha will help him to find strengths in other areas.

his attitude towards the game makes him a winner and IMO it's obvious there is so much more to come from him.


EDIT: and on the Gerrard point, i believe he is all round best player in the world!

Jivin Turkey

In a word, no.

When Rooney is not scoring goals he is still adding huge value to the team, be it through holding up play, creating chances or tracking back.

I would reckon any team in Europe would take him with open arms, and as RE*AC*TOR said, surely that is a sign of a great player?

c m

imo rooney wouldnt get into the following teams.
barce
real
i dont think hed be too hot in any italian team really
bayern
chelsea
valencia

TheMonster

lads, I have a feeling we have a WUM on our hands

Paul Tergat

c m wrote:

imo rooney wouldnt get into the following teams.
barce
real
i dont think hed be too hot in any italian team really
bayern
chelsea
valencia

IMO he would get into all of them and although the managers of these teams wouldn't admit it they would love to have him in their side!

eirebhoy

TheMonster wrote:

lads, I have a feeling we have a WUM on our hands

I think you might be correct.

c m

barce--- ahead of ronnie or eto -- thats takin the piss
real----raul robihno ruud and ronaldo----no chance
italians---he would die in seria a
valencia---villa and morientes(class in spain) would be in there ahead of him
bayern--- makkay and podolski(germans love him as a player)
chelsea---- drogba(playin very well- not his biggest fan) and sheva weak form but a proven player

zAbbo

He's over-rated by the English media, he's good, but not as good as he is made out to be.

Yes he's committed, but as with all young players, he struggles for form sometimes.

Too much is expected off him

Royale with Cheese

c m wrote:

bayern--- makkay and podolski(germans love him as a player)

I spent all last year watching Podolski for Fc Koeln. Rooney is a better player, a good bit better. Podolski's form is just as patchy. His goal scoring record isn't the greatest either (although he was playing in a team that finished second bottom of the league).

They want to get rid of Makkay too. He was useless last year.

Dempsey

zabbo wrote:

He's over-rated by the English media, he's good, but not as good as he is made out to be.

Yes he's committed, but as with all young players, he struggles for form sometimes.

Too much is expected off him

I agree.

He has a 2+ year drought in CL and he's World Class at the same time, errr NO

Not World Class now by a long shot, maybe in a few years if he keeps his temper under control long enough

Nalz

c m wrote:

imo rooney wouldnt get into the following teams.
barce
real
i dont think hed be too hot in any italian team really
bayern
chelsea
valencia

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

IMO thats a load of rubbish

I compare him (not in terms of character, football skills or the likes) to Messi. Messi is world class yet he has his bad days too

sundula

Jivin Turkey wrote:

When Rooney is not scoring goals he is still adding huge value to the team, be it through holding up play, creating chances or tracking back.


I dont like MU, well actually its Fergie I'm not that fond of, but i will still admit Rooney is a top class player and far more inteligent player than ronaldo.

Its not just the goal scoring that matters - someone has got to create the space and the chances for the real strikers to score. And i dont think MU bought Rooney to be an outright striker.

Paul Tergat

c m wrote:

barce--- ahead of ronnie or eto -- thats takin the piss
real----raul robihno ruud and ronaldo----no chance
italians---he would die in seria a
valencia---villa and morientes(class in spain) would be in there ahead of him
bayern--- makkay and podolski(germans love him as a player)
chelsea---- drogba(playin very well- not his biggest fan) and sheva weak form but a proven player

Sigh, i give up

kinaldo

c m wrote:

in a total of 123 premiership games hes scored a fairly pathetic 42.

Considering his age I think those stats are fairly impressive. Look at Shearer's record when he was 20, nobody would have predicted he'd go on to be Premiership's all time leading scorer. Rooney has a lot more going for him at 20 than Shearer did and I'd say in 2 or 3 years from now he'll be the finished article.

Dempsey

Morientes is playing class for Valencia.

Pizarro and Podolski are the front 2 for Bayern and are scoring for sport

Alan Shearer was considered a massive talent at 20

BaZmO*

c m wrote:

imo rooney wouldnt get into the following teams.
barce
real
i dont think hed be too hot in any italian team really
bayern
chelsea
valencia

Now I know you're just takin the p1ss. Well done for getting everybody going!

Jivin Turkey

Dempsey wrote:

He has a 2+ year drought in CL and he's World Class at the same time, errr NO

How many goals have United as a team scored in that time? Particularly if you discount this year. It's something like three in about ten games.

It's not Rooney's fault that he is not scoring when the team are playing woeful.

Jivin Turkey

Dempsey wrote:

Morientes is playing class for Valencia.

Pizarro and Podolski are the front 2 for Bayern and are scoring for sport

Alan Shearer was considered a massive talent at 20

By the time Shearer had turned 21 he has only scored 10 league goals.

Massive?

Carcharodon

I think everyone here can say Rooney is obviously overrated but thats not his fault, its the English media. He is a top class player and adds alot to the team even when he is not scoring.
He has bags of skill and ability but will never be the 30 goals a season man, not that type of player in my opinion,could well be proven wrong in the future though, who knows
He is a hard working winner, thats what makes him special, he reminds me of Alan Smith but with the extra skill and ability.

homerjay2005

Jivin Turkey wrote:

How many goals have United as a team scored in that time? Particularly if you discount this year. It's something like three in about ten games.

It's not Rooney's fault that he is not scoring when the team are playing woeful.

ya, as a united fan, i personally think that rooney is over rated. dont get me wrong, he is a great player and i am delighted to have him at united, but the english media have him hyped as the best player in the world. he has roy keane type battling qualities and i applaud him for that, but he has far too many bad games for us for my liking. i firmly believe that if he was any other nationality bar english, then he would not have the same reputation. also, i feel that ronaldo, while he can be extremely frustrating at times, is a better player and offers more to the team. if ronaldo had rooneys passion and drive, he would be unstoppable.

c m

i know rooney is a very good player but he really isnt world class. heres some players i think are "world class" in a similarish position
gerrard
ballack
kaka
ronaldihno
deco
joe cole
fabregas
juninhio
messi
there in a different league.
i know everyone thought i was jokin with my list of teams he wouldnt get into but does anyone in their right mind actually think he would get in ahead of eto messi or ronnie. be serious now. it would be a joke

c m

homerjay2005 wrote:

ya, as a united fan, i personally think that rooney is over rated. dont get me wrong, he is a great player and i am delighted to have him at united, but the english media have him hyped as the best player in the world. he has roy keane type battling qualities and i applaud him for that, but he has far too many bad games for us for my liking. i firmly believe that if he was any other nationality bar english, then he would not have the same reputation. also, i feel that ronaldo, while he can be extremely frustrating at times, is a better player and offers more to the team. if ronaldo had rooneys passion and drive, he would be unstoppable.

agree but does anyone think rooneys tracking back actually weakens the team?? it means you only have saha there to hit when hes off running.

c m

Jivin Turkey wrote:

By the time Shearer had turned 21 he has only scored 10 league goals.

Massive?

yeah but at 21 noone said he was world class

Paul Tergat

c m wrote:

agree but does anyone think rooneys tracking back actually weakens the team?? it means you only have saha there to hit when hes off running.

I agree with one of your points at last, i'd like him to save his energy for going forward but then again its in his character to get back

kinaldo

Sorry op but you're saying Joe Cole is world class and comparing Rooney to the likes of Fabregas - this thread is a joke.

Carcharodon

c m wrote:

i know rooney is a very good player but he really isnt world class. heres some players i think are "world class" in a similarish position
gerrard
ballack
kaka
ronaldihno
deco
joe cole
fabregas
juninhio
messi
there in a different league.
i know everyone thought i was jokin with my list of teams he wouldnt get into but does anyone in their right mind actually think he would get in ahead of eto messi or ronnie. be serious now. it would be a joke

Not sure about some of those, deco....cole... fabregas...messi...
Rooney could hold his own against them methinks
But when you mention players like this and put them in a list it is only a matter of opinion and personal taste, they are of such high quality

Dempsey

Jivin Turkey wrote:

By the time Shearer had turned 21 he has only scored 10 league goals.

Massive?

He was considered a massive talent, and was signed by Blackburn for a English record fee at the time

Dempsey

c m wrote:

yeah but at 21 noone said he was world class

Aye, he was hyped but not "the next Pele" bull that the english media were spouting

c m

yes i actually think joe cole is one of the most improved and naturally gifted players around. you could see his talent from a very early age but he couldnt use it-like ronaldo a year and a half ago - but like ronaldo and credit to their coaches he has really used his gifts and become an excellent technical intelligent player. as for ballack i think theyre fairly comparable both leaders both attack minded aswell as work horses ans ballack is quality. hes what rooney should aspire to be.

c m

fabregas is a genious and one of the best passers of the ball in the world. far superior to wazza

Paul Tergat

c m wrote:

fabregas is a genious and one of the best passers of the ball in the world. far superior to wazza

I can't tell if you're trolling or not!?