Utd vs Pool (Hopefully scores inc)

el rabitos

yop wrote:

Not condecending at all, just saying it as it is. Already 11 points behind at this stage of the season, with only 9 goals scored and a minus goal difference and with Arsenal and Chelsea yet to hit top gear does not bode well.
United well we all know for the past 4 or 5 years can be stop start, but with the good start to the season at least we are up there and in with a shout, should finish inside the top 6 this season at this rate, unlike what some boards "pundits" predicted.

well since we're saying it as it is, theres no throphy with a crown on top handed out at the end of the season for being "in with a shout". the premiership is a marathon, and united dont have the squad dept that chelsea do, so i wouldnt be hanging my hat on taking home the league. but "Sure theres always the Cup".

if liverpool go on a run this year, it will be because rafa has found the right ballance in the team and because he's found out how to play gerrard to his strengths while getting the best out of the rest. sometimes u have to take a step back so you can take a few steps forward.

PHB

Jivin Turkey wrote:

What are you saying here? Gerrard isn't good enough to play in a "league challenging team"? Then why have Chelsea (i.e. the best team in the league by some distance over the last two years) bend over backwards to sign him for the last two years?

Because he is good enough to play in a league challening team, just not in a central midfield position.

Would you not also think that if he were available and affordable that United or Arsenal wouldn't do the same?

I'd imagine they would

But surely, if this were true, if he plays alongside Alonso the team as a whole still has this ability to spread the play.

Except, that it forces two people to do the job that one position should do. If all Gerrard can contribute is the odd killer pass, the amazing shots, and the overall determination that he gives to the team, there is no point in playing him in

Secondly Gerrards ability to spread the play is as good as all of the aboves. If you don't think so I would think either (a) you have never seen him play or (b) do not know what "spreading the play" is. He does this job as much for Liverpool as Alonso.

Does he reallly? How often does he go for the killer pass than play the simple ball which is better for the team as a whole. There is a reason that Lampard is coverted by teams in Spain, it's because he has shown he can play as part of a team that tries to pass the ball around. Alonso is one of the best passers of the ball in the world.

Are you now saying he is not good enough to play in central midfield for Liverpool?

I've been saying his best position for the team is on the right wing for quite some time.

Yet John O'Shea can get a game in central midfield for United? So please enlighten me, are United not challenging for the title, or is John O'Shea's passing incisive enough for title challenging side?

As I'm sure you are aware, John O'Shea is not good enough to play a midfield role for United. When he does play, United play worse overall.
The difference however between a team with a bad DMC and a bad AMC is massive, as a team with a poor DMC will just concede a lot, but a bad AMC will effect the team in their attacking as a whole.

And let me just add, I don't think Gerrard is God or anything like it. He is a fantastic player, who has won many matches singlehandedly for Liverpool. He can be though careless in his distribution of the football and rash with some of his shooting. He can also be very inconsistent at times and has not at all got going this season for Liverpool.

He has won matches singlehandedly. No doubt about it, as a big game player, in some big games, he is just absolutely unreal. But his contribution to the team, while it has been effective in cup runs, and will continue to be effective in cup runs, will never be consistant enough for a league, because ultimately, he can't score an amazing goal or hit an amazing 70 yard pass every game. He is therefore wasting space of someone else who could distribute the ball around and contribute to the team as a whole.

If he plays on the right-wing, he can contribute the great effect he can have, without the overall negative to the team. While it might seem that he is playing worse, it's just because he is doign everything he can do. Every 2nd game or so he will score a goal or set up a goal perfectly. This is what Rafa realises and what he is trying to do.
What happened to in Rafa we trust?

Despite all of this he would still probably walk into all teams in the English league, and most definitely that of Manchester United.

Would he really? Displace Lampard or Ballack? Mourinho thinks that Lampard is one of the best players, if not the best, in the world. Ballack's record speaks for himself.

Arsenal and United probably, although if Fergie was given a straight choice tomorrow between playing Scholes or Gerrard, I'd imagine he'd pick Scholes.

On the match itself I didn't see it but I'm not surprised by the result. United for all their apparent shortcomings are getting results despite not playing well. I still think though that they will fall short come the end of the season unless the midfield is strengthened in January.

But they did play well. Played well and beat Liverpool.

Liverpool continue to puzzle me but I think its only a matter of time before they start getting things right. It was around the same time last year that people were questioning RB and then he went and put a string of wins together. They will come good but I can't see them finishing above the teams they are challenging with unless they are able to beat them.

The fact that they continue to puzzle you is evident of the fact that you have unrealistic valuations of the team and the players.

el rabitos

PHB wrote:

If all Gerrard can contribute is the odd killer pass, the amazing shots, and the overall determination that he gives to the team, there is no point in playing him in

some teams would pay 30 million to have a player that could do those things

yop

el rabitos wrote:

sometimes u have to take a step back so you can take a few steps forward.

Aye but Liverpool have been taking steps back for nearly 20 years now, without taking that PL winning step.

As I said already I think we are too stop start to continue with our good start to the season and am not naive enough to think that just because we are top in Oct we will win the PL, but I do know that been 11 points behind, 9 games into season has not won United any titles in the last 20 years.

The season is long, with plenty of twists and turns, this is football anything could happen, but been so far behind already with a tinkerman in charge is not a great start.

RasTa

el rabitos wrote:

well since we're saying it as it is, theres no throphy with a crown on top handed out at the end of the season for being "in with a shout". the premiership is a marathon, and united dont have the squad dept that chelsea do, so i wouldnt be hanging my hat on taking home the league. but "Sure theres always the Cup".

Thats bullcrap right there. Why does everyone talk about Chelsea's depth. They have an overpacked midfield and thats about it. If drogba goes, they are fecked. Same for their defenders.

el rabitos

yop wrote:

Aye but Liverpool have been taking steps back for nearly 20 years now, without taking that PL winning step.

As I said already I think we are too stop start to continue with our good start to the season and am not naive enough to think that just because we are top in Oct we will win the PL, but I do know that been 11 points behind, 9 games into season has not won United any titles in the last 20 years.

The season is long, with plenty of twists and turns, this is football anything could happen, but been so far behind already with a tinkerman in charge is not a great start.

i wasnt talking in terms of this season. i expected an improvement on last season and probably 2nd place with a view to actually winning it the following season. your talking about the last 20 years, benitez has been in charge for 2 full seasons, he needs time. he might be a tinkerman to an extent, but he's a successful one.

personally i dont care if liverpool win nothing all year as long as by the time next season starts the team is ballanced and rafa has what he wants.

yop

el rabitos wrote:

personally i dont care if liverpool win nothing all year as long as by the time next season starts the team is ballanced and rafa has what he wants.

Sure why don't you support Man City or Middlesboro then if you don't want to win anything....:p
Your looking for a cop out now, any one who supports a team and don't care if they don't want win anything should take up knitting or something.

Has to be worst statement of the year for boards soccer to come out with something like that.
I have a feeling that a lot of Liverpool fans and the Liverpool board have slightly different expectations than a balanced team!

el rabitos

yop wrote:

Sure why don't you support Man City or Middlesboro then if you don't want to win anything....:p
Your looking for a cop out now, any one who supports a team and don't care if they don't want win anything should take up knitting or something.

Has to be worst statement of the year for boards soccer to come out with something like that.
I have a feeling that a lot of Liverpool fans and the Liverpool board have slightly different expectations than a balanced team!

or

you just read what i said and add a bit of common sence

did ferguson just join united and have the team firing on all cylinders and winning game after game? no, he was about 1 goal away from being sacked.

it takes time for managers to get teams working how they need them to work and to find a right ballance between defence and attack.

my point is, if it takes all season to find that, then it will be worth it to see the team perform and win what "a lot of Liverpool fans and the Liverpool board" want to win, which is the league.

TheMonster

Ferguson took over a club in complete crisis, no youth policy and a massive boozing and gambling culture and it took him years to turn it round. Benitez took over an established top 4 team that has struggled to maintain top 4 and has shown no signs this season that top 4 is achievable.

kinaldo

TheMonster wrote:

Ferguson took over a club in complete crisis, no youth policy and a massive boozing and gambling culture and it took him years to turn it round. Benitez took over an established top 4 team that has struggled to maintain top 4 and has shown no signs this season that top 4 is achievable.

Whatever... winning the European Cup with THAT Liverpool team, in his first season, is one of the greatest managerial achievements ever imo. Also, u can put your house on Liverpool easily finishing in the top 4 this season.

Nalz

Id like to ask all those Liverpool and United fans...

if United had Gerrard (now I know he'd never play for United but) would they win the league, or come a very close second? How much more equiped would they be?

Nalz

kinaldo wrote:

Also, u can put your house on Liverpool easily finishing in the top 4 this season.

Na think I'll keep my house, it has a lovely living area and I just put up new curtains

TheMonster

Trilla wrote:

Id like to ask all those Liverpool and United fans...

if United had Gerrard (now I know he'd never play for United but) would they win the league, or come a very close second? How much more equiped would they be?

Would prefer Alonso as good player and all Gerrard is I don't think he would improve United that much as a team.

scojones

Trilla wrote:

Id like to ask all those Liverpool and United fans...

if United had Gerrard (now I know he'd never play for United but) would they win the league, or come a very close second? How much more equiped would they be?

We are going to win the league anyway!

Nah seriously though, I wouldn't want him on a united team and we all know he would NEVER play for united, ever. So there's no point speculating about it.

IMO, Gerrard acted like a spoilt child in the game at the weekend. He had no spirit and he just dropped his head for the 90 minutes. Reminds of how every Irish player played against Cyprus. Maybe it goes further than what was happening on the pitch, maybe he's unhappy at the moment - but that's just speculation too.

fade2black

I'd drop me head if I was playing in that Liverpool team too.

kinaldo wrote:

Whatever... winning the European Cup with THAT Liverpool team, in his first season, is one of the greatest managerial achievements ever imo. Also, u can put your house on Liverpool easily finishing in the top 4 this season.

This is the usual crap that Liverpool fans are famous for. Every year you think it's your time to win the league. Last season you were "definitely" going to finish second....erm....this year you were "definitely" going to finish ahead of Man U....erm...

You do best when you don't expect things people. (ref: Champions League)

kinaldo

fade2black wrote:

I'd drop me head if I was playing in that Liverpool team too.



This is the usual crap that Liverpool fans are famous for. Every year you think it's your time to win the league. Last season you were "definitely" going to finish second....erm....this year you were "definitely" going to finish ahead of Man U....erm...

You do best when you don't expect things people. (ref: Champions League)

I'm not too sure, but I should hope you're not mistaking me for a Liverpool fan!

fade2black

With those sigs??!!!!!!!!!!










(Yeah I was actually...)

TheMonster

sjones wrote:

We are going to win the league anyway!

Nah seriously though, I wouldn't want him on a united team and we all know he would NEVER play for united, ever. So there's no point speculating about it.

IMO, Gerrard acted like a spoilt child in the game at the weekend. He had no spirit and he just dropped his head for the 90 minutes. Reminds of how every Irish player played against Cyprus. Maybe it goes further than what was happening on the pitch, maybe he's unhappy at the moment - but that's just speculation too.

A lot of tabloid crap about his other half at the moment.

yop

Trilla wrote:

Id like to ask all those Liverpool and United fans...

if United had Gerrard (now I know he'd never play for United but) would they win the league, or come a very close second? How much more equiped would they be?

Oooh, to be honest I don't think he would add to United, we have enough of driven players and he is not defensive enough to solve the problem we still have.
I would take Alonso above Gerard, but then again if we got him for 5m he could be handy as a backup player,

scojones

TheMonster wrote:

A lot of tabloid crap about his other half at the moment.

Ah yes...I forgot about that. The David Beckham treatment.

Nalz

yop wrote:

Oooh....but then again if we got him for 5m he could be handy as a backup player,

jaysus :eek:

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↓↓↓slaughtering will follow below↓↓↓↓
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MrJoeSoap

How long does Benitez need to establish a balance? Surely after nearly two and a half years he should have something resembling a balanced squad?

He finished 5th in his first season, 3rd in his second season and now appears to have taken a bit of a step back both in terms of performances and results. I can't see the current Liverpool squad (mostly assembled by Rafa) ever challenging for the league.

Winning the CL was some achievement though, it has to be said.

Jivin Turkey

Yeah let's judge him, and the team, nine games into the season.

It's been a disappointing start no doubt about it, but it was about the same time last year that people were asking questions only for the team to respond with ten(?) wins in a row.

In Kuyt and Agger it looks like he has added two quality players to the starting XI, but unfortunately their Liverpool careers have been stop start due to injury.

While I think, and always did, that they have no realistic title aspirations this year second is still very much a goal to strive for.

astrofool

Well if they finish one point behind united again, the pool fans can always go on about "If the season started on October 23rd"

iregk

Jivin Turkey wrote:

but it was about the same time last year that people were asking questions only for the team to respond with ten(?) wins in a row.

Yeah and they we all had to endure, "if it wasn't for the bad start we would have hockied that league out of it!" I guess we are in for this again so, which brings me back to my previous post. Somewhere soon we are going to have: "weve turned to corner"

Attractive Nun

yop wrote:

Oooh, to be honest I don't think he would add to United, we have enough of driven players and he is not defensive enough to solve the problem we still have.
I would take Alonso above Gerard, but then again if we got him for 5m he could be handy as a backup player,

Me arse. I'm a United fan and that is just wrong. Gerrard - while in a slump at the moment - is arguably a better player than anyone at United. Rooney and Ronaldo will probably outshine him as their careers develop, but right now there is no question that Gerrard would make it into United's central midfield. Scholes, as good as he is, will not last long and Gerrard is thrice the player Carrick is. SAF would give his right arm to have a player like Gerrard in the ranks.

Jivin Turkey

iregk wrote:

Yeah and they we all had to endure, "if it wasn't for the bad start we would have hockied that league out of it!" I guess we are in for this again so, which brings me back to my previous post. Somewhere soon we are going to have: "weve turned to corner"

No you didn't, because if memory serves me, United were as good as Liverpool in the latter part of the season. So hence there wouldn't have "hockied the league".

Feel free to show me where a rationale fan came out with the above anyway.

Attractive Nun wrote:

Me arse. I'm a United fan and that is just wrong. Gerrard - while in a slump at the moment - is arguably a better player than anyone at United. Rooney and Ronaldo will probably outshine him as their careers develop, but right now there is no question that Gerrard would make it into United's central midfield. Scholes, as good as he is, will not last long and Gerrard is thrice the player Carrick is. SAF would give his right arm to have a player like Gerrard in the ranks.

At last some sense.

yop

Attractive Nun wrote:

Me arse. I'm a United fan and that is just wrong. Gerrard - while in a slump at the moment - is arguably a better player than anyone at United. Rooney and Ronaldo will probably outshine him as their careers develop, but right now there is no question that Gerrard would make it into United's central midfield. Scholes, as good as he is, will not last long and Gerrard is thrice the player Carrick is. SAF would give his right arm to have a player like Gerrard in the ranks.

Out of interest, where would you play him, do you think SAF would sit 18m of a midfielder or Paul Scholes on the bench just to accomadate Gerard? I don;t think he would.
I think he may look at putting Carrick in the Scholes role in the future as Carrick is not a DM at all from what I can see.
Within United current setup Gerard would not fit in, same conclusion that Chelsea would have come to, at present mind. Scholes has about 2 years left, god know what will happen in that time.
Of course I would like to see him at United, not that that would ever happen, but I would have Alonso above him, he is a more composed and intelligent player, Gerard has masses of energy, sometimes used wrong with these long 30 yard passes, probably 60% of them not coming off.
Alonso used the ball better while also containing an attacking edge.

Chucky the tree

Majority of the posts in here should be moved to the fishing forum.(do we even have one?)

MrPillowTalk

SAF has said before he would love to have Gerrard at the club.

Im a Utd fan and if Gerrard would play for us I think he would walk into the team. He has his limitations, his head drops from time to time and his distribution is sometimes poor, but come on his distribution even though not great is still way better than Ronnies and SAF is finally beginning to get the best out of him.

I think if we had Gerrard then we would be joint favs with Chelsea for the league, as it is Chelsea are probably favs but Utd are playing smashing football at the moment. I also think Rooney and Ronaldo are better than Gerrard.

yop

Chucky the tree wrote:

Majority of the posts in here should be moved to the fishing forum.(do we even have one?)

Why is that Chucky, to try and fish in Liverpools drowning title challenge

wheres me jumpa

Gerrard playing for United....Ive read a lot of bullsh*t in this thread but this beats all.

GetOffMyPatch

tbh wrote:

I've been going mad trying to figure it out - manyoo fans also seem to have their own version of "Steve Gerrard, Gerrard"?

Steve gerard gerard, he kisses the badge on his chest then hands in a transfer request, steve gerard gerard!

GetOffMyPatch

tbh wrote:

I've been going mad trying to figure it out - manyoo fans also seem to have their own version of "Steve Gerrard, Gerrard"?

Steve gerard gerard, he kisses the badge on his chest then hands in a transfer request, steve gerard gerard!

The other one sings about winning it two times (CL) but the rest of its is dissrespectful and I aint goin there

cournioni

MrPillowTalk wrote:

SAF has said before he would love to have Gerrard at the club.

Im a Utd fan and if Gerrard would play for us I think he would walk into the team. He has his limitations, his head drops from time to time and his distribution is sometimes poor, but come on his distribution even though not great is still way better than Ronnies and SAF is finally beginning to get the best out of him.

I think if we had Gerrard then we would be joint favs with Chelsea for the league, as it is Chelsea are probably favs but Utd are playing smashing football at the moment. I also think Rooney and Ronaldo are better than Gerrard.

We don't need Gerrard, because we have Scholes. If Gerrard was at the club, he would be there to play in Scholes' role, and in my opinion I don't think Gerrard is fit to lace Scholes' boots.

mike65

Academic discussion.

Mike.

Nalz

my question was that IF Gerrard was an United player and would he improve us that much? but obviously its like opening a can of worms here asking such things. There is no mention of him playing for /or joining Manchester United.

My opinion is that Gerrard is a great player in a bad reign of form, playing for a team in a minor slump. Having said that I think he's a bit over ratted. in terms of the total midfielder out of ten Id give him an 8.2 or 8.3, where as English press see him as an 11 out of 10!

TheMonster

PORNAPSTER wrote:

We don't need Gerrard, because we have Scholes. If Gerrard was at the club, he would be there to play in Scholes' role, and in my opinion I don't think Gerrard is fit to lace Scholes' boots.

totally agree

PiE

This thread is hilarious.