VHI vs BUPA

deimos

Right, I am a student who is just turning 21.

VHI has informed me that since now I am an adult my health care with them on plan B has increased to 664.21 per annum.

I have heard lots of people talking about BUPA but before I go ringing them or alike is there any adivce people can offer?

Do they hide anything? Is there anything I should watch out for now which I may regret in a few months?

Any advice and experience would be greatly appreciated.

And I am sorry about putting this in the wrong section, I honestly did now know where to put it.

Yours with Thanks,
Deimos

kizzyr

Health insurance is very important to get right. When I was 23 I decided to get mine sorted and so (sad and all as this sound:o ) made a list of things I wanted my health insurance to do / cover for me. Then I called both VHI and BUPA and asked my questions, got prices, exclusion periods etc all answered and went with BUPA. I found them to be much better value and cheaper than VHI. However you now have a greater choice with the arrival of VIVAS and HSA. I'd advise you to contact all of them, get prices and see which company offers you what you want at a price you can afford. From there its a no brainer really isn't it?

RevBlueJeans

There are people who believe that a young healthy single man with no dependants is wasting his money paying €500 a year for health insurance. Why not save the premium each year and then when you get older join the VHI, BUPA , VIVAS etc when you are more likely to need it.

RevBJ

deimos

I have needed it a few times in the past while tbh

3 * hernia operations
1 * twisted testicle

And I was looked after in the Bon Secour properly, each time, with my own room.

How would I fair out with another recurrence if I was relying on the public system?

kizzyr

RevBlueJeans wrote:

There are people who believe that a young healthy single man with no dependants is wasting his money paying €500 a year for health insurance. Why not save the premium each year and then when you get older join the VHI, BUPA , VIVAS etc when you are more likely to need it.

RevBJ

And then your premiums are much higher. Health insurance is a gamble fair enough, but you never know when you're going to need it. I was fit and healthy at the age of 19 when a truck crashed into the car I was a passenger in. Needless to say it knocked me sideways and I will always feel the repercussions of it and so visit an acupuncturist on a fairly regular basis and I can claim that back on my health insurance. I had to have an MRI about 2 years ago, if I was a public patient I'd have had to wait 10 months to get seen for it, with private health insurance I got it the following week.

Redshift

Your age is irrelevant when it comes to getting health insurance, I've had it since I started working; im in my late 20s now but I have needed it twice on one occasion the hospital bill was about 10 grand for two weeks.
and i'd have been seriously screwed without vhi cover. you never know what's around the corner for you so if you can possibly afford it then get it.

TempestSabre

RevBlueJeans wrote:

There are people who believe that a young healthy single man with no dependants is wasting his money paying €500 a year for health insurance. Why not save the premium each year and then when you get older join the VHI, BUPA , VIVAS etc when you are more likely to need it.

RevBJ

Are you serious? You can get sick or injured at anytime at any age.

Rabies

Get it if you can. I'm with Bupa: Health Manager Starter. I have it about 3 years.
The first year I got my insurance I needed to go to hosptial for 2 days to get a small operation on my arm.
Once they found out I had insurance I was moved from the smelly old man ward, to the new wing of the hospital, own room and great care.
I needed 3 weeks of daily follow up care from the hostpital, my insurnace covered all this.
The total for my operation and hospital stay was €2k and that excludes the treatment I was getting after it.

mike65

Plan b with VHI seems more expense than Essential Plus which is, I think the nearest equivilant. That said they make it as hard as possible to make a direct comparison.

Mike.

tk123

OP make sure you check what the excess is on the plan. I pay €1 excess on VHI first plan - i found this one the best for me because I get money back for GP visits etc - I'll be getting €200 back from them in a couple of weeks for last years GP and dentist visits. Bupa's plan seems to be about twice what I'm pay and the difference with Vivas was a much higher excess. I was going to check it there but their site was down!

Sam Vimes

Rabies wrote:

Get it if you can. I'm with Bupa: Health Manager Starter. I have it about 3 years.
The first year I got my insurance I needed to go to hosptial for 2 days to get a small operation on my arm.
Once they found out I had insurance I was moved from the smelly old man ward, to the new wing of the hospital, own room and great care.

i think its really sad that that happened. health is a basic human right. it shouldn't be rationed based on the size of your wallet

TempestSabre

Commander Vimes wrote:

i think its really sad that that happened. health is a basic human right. it shouldn't be rationed based on the size of your wallet

These days its so bad even the size of your wallet won't help. There simply aren't enough beds to go around.

kizzyr

Commander Vimes wrote:

i think its really sad that that happened. health is a basic human right. it shouldn't be rationed based on the size of your wallet

Its true, but visit any hospital in the country and you have doctors and nurses banging their heads against the wall that is the Department of Health whose stance on the whole thing is that " you all have enough beds you're just really bad at managing them":rolleyes: :mad: Nice story, we have less beds available in this country now than we have 30 years ago despite having a much higher population. The end result, those that shout the loudest or have the money get seen first.

Sam Vimes

kizzyr wrote:

Its true, but visit any hospital in the country and you have doctors and nurses banging their heads against the wall that is the Department of Health whose stance on the whole thing is that " you all have enough beds you're just really bad at managing them":rolleyes: :mad: Nice story, we have less beds available in this country now than we have 30 years ago despite having a much higher population. The end result, those that shout the loudest or have the money get seen first.

yeah that pisses me off too. the govt goes on about effiency effiency efficiency. i'd rather have 100 inefficient hospitals with 1 billion unused beds than have people dying while politicians moan that they need to do better with the resources they're given. do they want the nurses to run between patients?

mcaul

Personally I believe cover is essential no matter how good / bad the public system is. - Before complaining about Ireland check out both USA & UK!

If young and relatively healthy you could look at the more basic plans and as you get older (40+) upgrade yourself. The basic plans will still provide all the cover you require but less privacy & less choice in the hospitals.

kizzyr

Commander Vimes wrote:

yeah that pisses me off too. the govt goes on about effiency effiency efficiency. i'd rather have 100 inefficient hospitals with 1 billion unused beds than have people dying while politicians moan that they need to do better with the resources they're given. do they want the nurses to run between patients?

You should check out today Irish Independent and the article by Justine McCarthy. She was writing about the latest crisis to hit Crumlin and the blood platelets, apparently at the same time as this cheaper test was being carried out Crumlin were being asked to re sterilize already used needles:eek: all in a bid to save money you understand............while we were spending money on a new fleet of Mercs for our government minsters every single year, tons of money on tribunals at Dublin Castle which aren't going to achieve a damn thing..........
I know the systems in other countries aren't necessarily perfect but the total lack of accountability in this country is appalling.:mad:

Guy:Incognito

RevBlueJeans wrote:

There are people who believe that a young healthy single man with no dependants is wasting his money paying €500 a year for health insurance. Why not save the premium each year and then when you get older join the VHI, BUPA , VIVAS etc when you are more likely to need it.

RevBJ

It can swing both ways. In the 12 months to the end of march this year I had to have 4 wisdom teeth out and an operation to have a finger repaired after an injury playing football. It would have cost me the guts of 4k all in.

kizzyr wrote:

Its true, but visit any hospital in the country and you have doctors and nurses banging their heads against the wall that is the Department of Health whose stance on the whole thing is that " you all have enough beds you're just really bad at managing them":rolleyes: :mad: Nice story, we have less beds available in this country now than we have 30 years ago despite having a much higher population. The end result, those that shout the loudest or have the money get seen first.

I know its not as clear cut as the government make it out, but when I was in for my finger operation I was in a ward that was half empty. They have beds going empty in certain wards and other wards overflowing. Surely they could mix the types of complaints in wards if they are badly stuck.

My young lad was taken to hospital yesterday after he swallowed a coin. They kept him in overnight. There were 3 rooms of 6 beds in the ward and 4 or so private rooms. The 4 private rooms were in use. 3 beds in his room were in use, 1 bed in the next room and the 3rd room was empty. This was in Tallaght hospital. I'm not suggesting mixing adults with kids (although there was a 15 year old girl in the room with my son (2) and a child of about 3, I thought that was a bit unfair on the girl being in with small children) but if there are short on childrens bed like they are with adult one, surely they could fit kids in to these vacant beds.

kizzyr

Stekelly wrote:

It can swing both ways. In the 12 months to the end of march this year I had to have 4 wisdom teeth out and an operation to have a finger repaired after an injury playing football. It would have cost me the guts of 4k all in.





I know its not as clear cut as the government make it out, but when I was in for my finger operation I was in a ward that was half empty. They have beds going empty in certain wards and other wards overflowing. Surely they could mix the types of complaints in wards if they are badly stuck.

My young lad was taken to hospital yesterday after he swallowed a coin. They kept him in overnight. There were 3 rooms of 6 beds in the ward and 4 or so private rooms. The 4 private rooms were in use. 3 beds in his room were in use, 1 bed in the next room and the 3rd room was empty. This was in Tallaght hospital. I'm not suggesting mixing adults with kids (although there was a 15 year old girl in the room with my son (2) and a child of about 3, I thought that was a bit unfair on the girl being in with small children) but if there are short on childrens bed like they are with adult one, surely they could fit kids in to these vacant beds.

Its not a case of not physically having beds, lots of hospitals have many unused beds, the hospitals don't have the staff to run them properly. Each bed (depending on what its being used for, by that I mean an ICU patient, observation patient etc) needs a nurse, doctor, care attendent, there are infection control requirements that need to be kept, a bed manager to "manage" it, a consultant to ok the admission to that bed, then there is the support staff to that consultant....... it goes on and on.
Many hospitals (and St. James's are great at this) try to avoid saying they are closing beds, they say that a ward is temporarily closed due to refurbishment.

loyatemu

www.vivas.ie - i've found them to be consistently cheaper than VHI and BUPA.

All policies are not exactly the same, but if you're in your 20s and (reasonably) healthy I can't see any reason to have more than the minimum hospital cover.

TempestSabre

loyatemu wrote:

www.vivas.ie - i've found them to be consistently cheaper than VHI and BUPA.

All policies are not exactly the same, but if you're in your 20s and (reasonably) healthy I can't see any reason to have more than the minimum hospital cover.

Why do accidents and serious illness not happen to young heathly people?

ch750536

For clarification:

I have moved over from the UK 2 years ago, wife hassling me to sort out cover.

Upon investigation:
Example 1: Hit by a car, 2 broken legs.

At A&E:
I still get treated in A&E, exactly the same, same doctors, location ect regardless of cover.

Once the emergency is subsided:
Without cover:
I have to stay in a ward, still get treated by a doctor though etc, still get all my drugs etc and no bill will be produced.
With cover:
Can stay in hospital, optionally I may move to a private hospital or just a private room (depends on the cover purchased). Still dont need to pay for anything.

Following up:
Without cover:
If I needed additional treatment, as long as it is still part of the original injury, then I am covered (eg, MRI etc). Downside is I have to wait.

With cover:
Get the same level of treatment, just quicker.

Example 2: I need treatment for tennis elbow (non life threatening)
Without cover:
Will get all things I need just have to wait, have to pay for medication etc.
With cover:
Exactly the same, without the wait. Note, I still have to pay for all medication under prescription and depending on cover, still have to pay for visits to the GP.

So, to summise:
If I dont have cover I still get treated & have the same level of care, its simply an issue of when I get the care I need.
Financially, if I dont have cover and are prepared to wait it is no cost to me.

If I do have cover generally things are very quick but the items I would pay for with no cover I generally still have to pay for but get some form of rebate on them of varying degrees.

from BUPA: Physiotherapy: up to €20 per consultation.

Doesnt go too far...

Based upon the above, for me (33) my wife, 2yr old and about due (classed as a child in this example) the base level of cover is
+No day to day option included (ie GP's etc)

Bupa essential = €876.60
VIVAS Level 1 = €973.50
VHI Plan A = €1127.74

However, she who commands would like a private hospital:
Bupa essential Plus = €1,281.78
Vivas lev 2 = €1420.50 ETA Phoned back, Quoted 1277
VHI Plan B Option =€ 1815.48

When we include cover for private hospital, shared room + day to day (general out patients costs) we get
Bupa health care manager starter = €1,375.50
Vivas Lev 2 + Day to day A = € 1786.50
VHI Plan B Option + Helath Steps Silver = €2133.88

If I were to get cover, personally I dont think I need to but She decides, then the BUPA health Care manager Starter seems to be the best value for money option however, I have not gone in to the fine print yet.

I have called all three and left a series of questions, they are going to call me back later today, will post an update in a mo.

Please correct me if any of the above assumptions are incorrect.

TempestSabre

In these days of hospital superbugs I kinda like the idea of being away from the bigger wards myself. That said they tend to out patients with those bugs in the private wards/rooms. Also having spend the last few months in and out of hospitals with sick relatives I would really prefer not to be in a public hospital. while the clinical/medical care may be the same but slower, I believe the nbursing care and other service to be much poorer, based on what I've seen and experienced.

KNO3

Join your local credit union and get a 10% discount annually on your premium with VHI and BUPA, not sure about Viva, just open up an ordinary share account and stick a tenner in it, pays for itself instantly with the discount.

I pay BUPA a premium of €475.24 for Essential Plus, this includes my 10% discount because of credit union membership. For the equivelant Plan B from VHI I would pay over €600 ($642 I think). As a single male looking for a mid table plan going with BUPA is a no brainer really.

kizzyr

TempestSabre wrote:

In these days of hospital superbugs I kinda like the idea of being away from the bigger wards myself. That said they tend to out patients with those bugs in the private wards/rooms. Also having spend the last few months in and out of hospitals with sick relatives I would really prefer not to be in a public hospital. while the clinical/medical care may be the same but slower, I believe the nbursing care and other service to be much poorer, based on what I've seen and experienced.

Sometimes its much better for you to be in a public hospital IF its one of the teaching hospitals like St. James's, Tallaght, the Mater, Vincents.The reason I say this is that in the event of something going wrong with you post surgery, or you have a major cardiac arrest for example the teaching hospitals have better facilites and on call theatre staff to save your life. I'm still on for a private room in one of this hopsitals but if I was having a major procedure done to me I'd opt for one of these. Same for women having babies, private maternity hospitals are great if everything goes according to plan, if not you can count on it that you and your baby have a much better chance if you're in a bigger hospital like the Coombe.

TempestSabre

Thats why I made the distinction between nursing and clinical care. Besides if theres a problem and you in a private hospital you'll be transferred anyway.

kizzyr

TempestSabre wrote:

Thats why I made the distinction between nursing and clinical care. Besides if theres a problem and you in a private hospital you'll be transferred anyway.

Some bad things happen to you so fast that the transfer time may be too long while being rushed down the corridor may not.
Either way I think its a dreadful pity that nurses and doctors who are all trained in the same way are forced through the total mismanagement of the health care system to choose between treating those with money/cover and those without.

TempestSabre

Its a bit like a learner driver with their kids in the back

TempestSabre

kizzyr wrote:

[/B]
Some bad things happen to you so fast that the transfer time may be too long while being rushed down the corridor may not.
Either way I think its a dreadful pity that nurses and doctors who are all trained in the same way are forced through the total mismanagement of the health care system to choose between treating those with money/cover and those without.

Unfortunately they are not all trained the same way :mad:

kizzyr

TempestSabre wrote:

Unfortunately they are not all trained the same way :mad:

No, I suppose like everywhere else some training schools are better than others. Either way the people at the front of the health care system are being shafted by the government. :mad:

TempestSabre

Some countries don't train the same either.

ch750536

Updating the above. Have asked lots of questions of all the Health Comapnies, the best response by far has been bupa. Although initially they failed to call me back on a quote, since then they have called me back 3 times with answers rather than giving a 'possible' answer on the phone.

They called just now, lowered their price again to £1186 and waived the 26 week waiting period.

Latest Prices in red
Bupa essential = €876.60 €855
VIVAS Level 1 = €973.50 970
VHI Plan A = €1127.74 1127

However, she who commands would like a private hospital:
Bupa essential Plus = €1,281.78 1115
Vivas lev 2 = €1420.50 ETA Phoned back, Quoted 1277
VHI Plan B Option =€ 1815.48 1680

When we include cover for private hospital, shared room + day to day (general out patients costs) we get
Bupa health care manager starter = €1,375.50 €1186
Vivas Lev 2 + Day to day A = € 1786.50 1455
VHI Plan B Option + Helath Steps Silver = €2133.88 1990

I'm gonna go with Bupa health care manager starter, am happier with the price, like the company so far. Need to see how long I can lock that price for though. Would be good if they gave me that price for the next few years rather than just this year. Will be back with an update on this issue later.