Four people killed in Monaghan crash

gyppo

@ Nuttzy,

Your compassion is overwhelming.
I'm not condoning their actions, but these people were human beings, and their passing deserves more respect than your usual drivel. These people who were killed were somebodies brothers, sons, friends. Maybe you should voice your opinion to some of these if you want a reaction.

Heinrich

gyppo wrote:

@ Nuttzy,

Your compassion is overwhelming.
I'm not condoning their actions, but these people were human beings, and their passing deserves more respect than your usual drivel. These people who were killed were somebodies brothers, sons, friends. Maybe you should voice your opinion to some of these if you want a reaction.

So the fact that they were someone's brothers, sons, friends etc makes it OK. There seems to be enough evidence that they were acting irresponsibly and were a danger to other road users. What they appeared to be doing was disdraceful and they died as a result.

Can you give one valid reason why we should mourn their passing? The only saving grace in this tragedy is that they did not kill other road users.

This sort of bravado is such good fun until it goes horribly wrong. Maybe the brothers, sons, friends etc. might have been aware of the behaviour of these grand lads as one might assume that this was not the first occurance of the driving adventures!

furtzy

Heinrich wrote:

So the fact that they were someone's brothers, sons, friends etc makes it OK. There seems to be enough evidence that they were acting irresponsibly and were a danger to other road users. What they appeared to be doing was disdraceful and they died as a result.

Can you give one valid reason why we should mourn their passing? The only saving grace in this tragedy is that they did not kill other road users.

This sort of bravado is such good fun until it goes horribly wrong. Maybe the brothers, sons, friends etc. might have been aware of the behaviour of these grand lads as one might assume that this was not the first occurance of the driving adventures!

Couldn't agree more.

gyppo

Heinrich wrote:

So the fact that they were someone's brothers, sons, friends etc makes it OK. There seems to be enough evidence that they were acting irresponsibly and were a danger to other road users. What they appeared to be doing was disdraceful and they died as a result.

No, I never said it was ok. I did say that I did not condone their actions.

Heinrich wrote:

Can you give one valid reason why we should mourn their passing? The only saving grace in this tragedy is that they did not kill other road users.

There are at least two people who lost their lives who were not driving - are they as culpable as those who were driving? Are you honestly saying that anyone who acts stupidly deserves to lose their life?

Heinrich wrote:

This sort of bravado is such good fun until it goes horribly wrong. Maybe the brothers, sons, friends etc. might have been aware of the behaviour of these grand lads as one might assume that this was not the first occurance of the driving adventures!

Totally agree.

tbh

Heinrich wrote:

Can you give one valid reason why we should mourn their passing?

They were human beings. They were no better or worse than any of us. They may have been stupid, but they've paid a huge price for it.

jimmycrackcorm

ninty9er wrote:

Being a 19 year old male driver, the amount of times I have to ask people to belt up would lead me to believe that this was the nub of the matter!!


Why does the media not go on a frenzy when 4 over 70s die on the roads in a weekend.

Is it because over 70s should be allowed to drink drive, speed and not wear a seatbelt...I'm sick of the abuse I get from people when they ask if I have a car and when I say I do..."oh mind your speed", "slow down", don't drink and drive now"

My reply is that over 40s are statistically more likely to do all 3, they just don't speed to the same extent of some muppets driving round in Golfs because they're cool.

How many over 40s on here had tuition in Ireland before passing their text outside of the last 20 years

I don't know what news reports you read but it would be a sure bet to wage that more under 30's will die in weekend accidents during the rest of the year than over 70's.

Whatever level of tuition the over 40's, they are far safer on the roads, with the odd exception of course...

Heinrich

tbh wrote:

They were human beings. They were no better or worse than any of us. They may have been stupid, but they've paid a huge price for it.

They are now dead for a reason! I don't see the sense in your comment as to whether they are no better nor worse...

The passengers were well aware of the manner in which the drivers behaved and had the had any sense they would not have gotten into the cars.

Beware of misplaced sympathy. If there have been innocent roadusers, perhaps with children involved in the collision I would have the deepest sympathy for them but sadly the budding James Deans do not come into the equation.

tbh

Heinrich wrote:

They are now dead for a reason! I don't see the sense in your comment as to whether they are no better nor worse...

The passengers were well aware of the manner in which the drivers behaved and had the had any sense they would not have gotten into the cars.

Beware of misplaced sympathy. If there have been innocent roadusers, perhaps with children involved in the collision I would have the deepest sympathy for them but sadly the budding James Deans do not come into the equation.

your point is well made, I just think you are being a little harsh. Of course they were stupid, but we've all done stupid things. You just think you are bullet-proof. They found out the hard way that you are not.

furtzy

tbh wrote:

They were human beings. They were no better or worse than any of us. They may have been stupid, but they've paid a huge price for it.

Sorry if it sounds harse but I for one can say they were worse than me. To go out on a public road for a game of chicken not giving a sh*t for anyone else who might be coming around the corner are the type of people we can do without

Heinrich

tbh wrote:

your point is well made, I just think you are being a little harsh. Of course they were stupid, but we've all done stupid things. You just think you are bullet-proof. They found out the hard way that you are not.

Not at all harsh, realistic. Indeed I have done stupid things in my time but not anything that would affect others in such a serious way. They paid the price but will the next lot learn from the experience? I doubt it.

smemon

Nuttzy wrote:

If the following 2 statements are true:
one of the cars had no lights on
They were playing chicken

then i`d just like to say good fooking riddance to the brain dead spas. Theres enough attention focusing on younger drivers with all this road deaths farce as it is without knobs like them killing each other. The same lad owned both cars apparently, hmmm. And why was a 27yr old taking part in this crazy little chicken game, you have to wonder about a 27yr old hanging around with 20/21 yr olds. Fookin simpletons the lot of them.

Youngsters are already being blamed for all the road deaths and these knobs have done nothing to help us, infact they`ve done the total opposite and provoked the minister into talking about loads of restrictions on newly qualified drivers, etc as a direct result of this incident. Least they cant do any more selfish acts on us now. Spas!

For the politically correct dopes amongst us, no amount of proposals/licences/gardai will stop a group of simpletons from having a game of chicken if they want to at 2:30am so dont start preeching.

well said. Lets make it clear though that we don't KNOW thats what they were doing. But the evidence so far suggests they were.

No seatbelts
No Lights
Speedo clocked at 150km/hr
2 cars owned by same person
2.15am

then there's rumour of houseparties.. now, if indeed these guys were playing chicken etc.. combined with the above, i have absolutely no sympathy for them whatsoever.

heart goes out to the poor families they left behind though.

i honestly can't understand how stupid people can be. Really, it's incredible.

unless this was suicide, which i highly doubt, i would have thought no sane person or people could possibly do this.

as someone pointed out, what if there had of been pedestrians.. someone with kids in the car.. someone broken down with a flat tyre nearby??

i mean, these guys presumably have gone through years of education.. hard work to buy cars...earn a living. I honestly can't understand the sheer waste of life and total disrespect they've shown to the families, themselves and to life in general.

hellboy99

tbh wrote:

They were human beings. They were no better or worse than any of us. They may have been stupid, but they've paid a huge price for it.

Would you mourn their passing if they had hit a car with a family in it and killed all of them ?
They were driving like idiots, playing chicken on a road with no care for themselves or anyone else for that matter, they got what they deserved and now our roads are a bit safer with them not on it.

Seth Brundle

Whilst they may have been driving stupidly (~150km/ on a crap road with no seatbelts!), nobody deserves to die

mike65

Friend of mine spent a fair amount of time in hospital because he wanted to find out if it was true that you can't roll a Citroen 2CV. What he found out was that he couldn't do it driving forward ...using reverse at full speed on the other hand gave him several badly damaged vertebrae ...

The dope! Driven on C4 (I think) proved that a few years back.

No amount of restrictions will stop assholes killing themselves or others.

Mike.

hellboy99

kbannon wrote:

Whilst they may have been driving stupidly (~150km/ on a crap road with no seatbelts!), nobody deserves to die

If they had half a brain at the time and thought this could be a dangerous act and chose not to do it they would all be alive today, in my eyes they took there own lives.

zAbbo

4 people die in car crash, tragedy.

4 people die in car crash while playing chicken with no lights on at 2am, not so much a tragedy.

Idiots is all I can say, I feel sorry for the family for the shame and sense of waste that they've brought to a small country town.

Seth Brundle

hellboy99 wrote:

If they had half a brain at the time and thought this could be a dangerous act and chose not to do it they would all be alive today, in my eyes they took there own lives.

Im not denying that. I just don't think people 'deserve to die'*


* child abusers and other rapist scum aside!

hellboy99

mike65 wrote:

No amount of restrictions will stop assholes killing themselves or others.

Agreed, and what about the people that hold no licence or insurance and are on our roads. I know of one person in my area that lost his licence and is still driving, the day he lost it he walked out of the court house and drove home :mad: .

byte

A fifth person has died now as a result of the accident.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1023/rta1.html

drdre

in my opinion i think its mainly drink driving, and its mainly the countryside not dublin because of road conditions at night like lighting etc.

but i would like to send my regards to the guys that died.its a sad time for their family.

Panda Moanium

It is amazing how when an crash (not accident) like this happens, everybody and everything gets blames - apart from the people who actually caused it.

I was listening to the news tonight about the victims. Why victims? Seems to me nobody killed them but themselves.

If a young fella went out with a loaded gun and somehow managed to get himself shot, the attititude would be tough, but you basically got what you deserved.

We keep hearing that a car is a lethal weapon so why don't the same standards apply when that lethal weapon is misused?

We need to change our attitude towards people who cause fatal accidents through dangerous driving. Make them social outcasts. Even in death, harsh and all as that may seem. If a driver survives, name and shame him if he is to blame. Make it as unacceptable as shooting or stabbing someone.

Yes it would be hard on family and friends, but maybe, just maybe, some of those friends might learn a lesson that, it is quite clear, no amount of legislation or garda enforcement is going to achieve.

Heinrich

"There will always be accidents but some of the fairly insane acts that we see from time to time are just inevitably going to lead to carnage.

I do think there is responsibility on us all to try to convince and persuade people," Mr Ahern said.

"I've seen myself, just a few nights ago, young people in a car racing around, a stolen car, just racing around wildly. We've got to get the message across of the irresponsibility of that. I think that requires all of society to try and continue to persuade."

With this sort of reaction and expecting everyone to do the work they are supposed to be engaged in there is little hope of any improvment in the carnage. Come on, the Taoiseach is watching the lads joyridind and where are the cops? Nero fiddling while Rome burns comes to mind.

It might be more realistic Mr Ahern if society were to "try and continue to persuade" you and your incompetent vegetables to do the job you are being overpaid to do!

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

drdre wrote:

in my opinion i think its mainly drink driving, and its mainly the countryside not dublin because of road conditions at night like lighting etc.

seems not on this occasion...

you have to feel for the poor families, but i afraid i don't have the same feeling for those stupid kids in the cars.

Seanie M

furtzy wrote:

From around that area originally and according to some locals they were playing chicken....if thats the case then it beggers belief and you can't have any sympathy

zabbo wrote:

4 people die in car crash, tragedy.

4 people die in car crash while playing chicken with no lights on at 2am, not so much a tragedy.

Idiots is all I can say, I feel sorry for the family for the shame and sense of waste that they've brought to a small country town.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Removal from the gene pool is the best course of action for idiots like that.

Nuttzy wrote:

If the following 2 statements are true:
one of the cars had no lights on
They were playing chicken

then i`d just like to say good fooking riddance to the brain dead spas. Theres enough attention focusing on younger drivers with all this road deaths farce as it is without knobs like them killing each other...... and so on ......For the politically correct dopes amongst us, no amount of proposals/licences/gardai will stop a group of simpletons from having a game of chicken if they want to at 2:30am so dont start preeching.

Even though I have seen some doped up and inconsiderate posts on these boards from this poster, I actually agree with him wholeheartedly.

gyppo wrote:

There are at least two people who lost their lives who were not driving - are they as culpable as those who were driving? Are you honestly saying that anyone who acts stupidly deserves to lose their life?

Yes, they are culpable. They have a brain, and voice to speak its concerns if something is immoral or wrong, even life-threatening. They could have said something, left the vehicle, anything. Instead they chose to be a part of the lunacy that ultimately cost them all their lives.

But, did they act stupidly? I say NO, because they all knew EXACTLY what tey were doing.

It's like I believe in the fact that if a person racing a cars kills another peson as a result of it, then it should be a murder charge, not a manslaughter one - the 'murderer' is in the full control of the ir actions and full knowledge of what the reprocussions are of their outcomes.

Sadly, it doesn't work like that, and they can drive again after a few years...

stovelid

Exactly - all the talk of imposing custom speed limits is daft in this context. If lads are ignoring the normal speed limit, why are they suddenly take heed of lower ones.

mike65 wrote:

No amount of restrictions will stop assholes killing themselves or others..

The "they-were-betrayed-by-transport-policy" guff going around is stupid. Nobody forced young adults to drive around at those speeds on poxy roads.

While I would never ever have the heart to downplay the fact that five young lads have died; they brought it on themselves and thankfully didn't take anybody else with them.

Sandwich

Panda Moanium wrote:

It is amazing how when an crash (not accident) like this happens, everybody and everything gets blames - apart from the people who actually caused it.

I was listening to the news tonight about the victims. Why victims? Seems to me nobody killed them but themselves.

Very valid point. If we could accept the reality of many road accidents and faceup to the fact that they were caused by the 'victims' it would be progress in our general attitude to road safety. Of course it is very tragic for their families, but being open about the causes would be a more mature attitude and prompt people to wake up to their responsibilities. Blaming external factors deflects from dealing with the real cause.

franksm

And the shame of this tragedy (whether an accident, or plain, stupid scumbaggedness - I'm not going to comment there as it's still not clear what the truth is) is that it'll be forgotten by Friday, the road will have been swept of broken glass, and there'll unfortunately be something similar happen next weekend and the weekend after.

I wish the Gardai should use this as an education - do a proper investigation, and then publicise the output. What happened, who caused it, and what were the results - damage to the car & to the people.

Then have some ramps or something put on that road (for a while anyway) to make people slow down and think "why on earth did they put ramps on this nice, straight road", and then have the wreckage left at the side of the road there to scare the bejasus out of poeple.

Horrific, yeah, but sweeping this under the carpet and "moving on" doesn't work. I know if I saw the wreckage it would affect me

byte

franksm wrote:

And the shame of this tragedy (whether an accident, or plain, stupid scumbaggedness - I'm not going to comment there as it's still not clear what the truth is) is that it'll be forgotten by Friday, the road will have been swept of broken glass, and there'll unfortunately be something similar happen next weekend and the weekend after.

I wish the Gardai should use this as an education - do a proper investigation, and then publicise the output. What happened, who caused it, and what were the results - damage to the car & to the people.

Then have some ramps or something put on that road (for a while anyway) to make people slow down and think "why on earth did they put ramps on this nice, straight road", and then have the wreckage left at the side of the road there to scare the bejasus out of poeple.

Horrific, yeah, but sweeping this under the carpet and "moving on" doesn't work. I know if I saw the wreckage it would affect me

Agree with most of what you said. We always hear about accidents when they happen but seldom (if ever) hear WHY the accidents happened.

Only thing I would possibly disagree with is leaving the wreckage on the side of the road. Although it may make others think twice, it would be hard of the families of the deceased if they lived nearby and had to drive past it daily reliving the memory of their dead loved ones.

BREN21

I am quite saddened to read some of the comments posted on this site regarding the guys that lost their lives in threemile house, They were my neighbours, one of them I went to school with, Ive known them and their families all my life, they were ordinary guys, not tearaways not irresposnsible in other spheres of their lives they were just unfortunate. No evidence proves these guys were playing chicken with their lights off, the point of the road on which they were killed is quite a dangerous stretch, its was resurfaced two years ago however, poor engineering allowed the parts of that particular road to subside and dangerous uneven dips in the road to remain, just at the point where the crash happened.I nearly lost control of my vehicle at that point last year. This could just have easily been the cause of the crash.
Irregardless of what the cause was I would like to ask those who post comments to be sensitive as those who were related to the guys who died could easily stumble across these posts, one google search will bring it up. reading some of these comments(nutsy) could only serve to deepen the pain of the bereaved.
Evereyone is entitled to their pointof view, however please ask yourself whether your comments could be hurtful to people who really dont deserve any more hurt.
If there is an issue to be talked about here then perhaps it is a good time to address that of the substandard roads in a modern european country.

kippy

With this sort of reaction and expecting everyone to do the work they are supposed to be engaged in there is little hope of any improvment in the carnage. Come on, the Taoiseach is watching the lads joyridind and where are the cops? Nero fiddling while Rome burns comes to mind.

It might be more realistic Mr Ahern if society were to "try and continue to persuade" you and your incompetent vegetables to do the job you are being overpaid to do!

I am sure the cops werent far behind-even if they werent you cant expect Bertie to chase after the joyriders himself......


I've been saying it for ages, but at the end of the day - the end user- you and me, are directly responsible for road safety.
Laws, safety devices, etc are no good unless they are adhered to/used properly.
More enforcement of existing laws would be good but the guards/politicians/law makers cannot sit in the car and drive it safely for it.
A change in attitude towards excessive speeding is needed by everyone-some people still dont take it seriously enough.
If things keep going the way they are going, ie lots of people dying on the roads, and the public are crying out for more and more action, the lawmakers etc will be forced to use more and more nanny state methods of getting the road deaths down (limiting you drivers to certain cars, harsher penalties for speeding and dangerous driving, more and more check points.

My sympathies go to all families and people involved in this incident.
No matter what the causes, the people left behind will always be asking them selves, why and what if. Not a nice way to be.
Kippy