L Drivers

Squirrel

TempestSabre wrote:

The L plate is for you to learn to drive not drive everywhere unqualified. Thats why you are meant to have a qualified driver with you to prevent people using the L plate as a means of transport before they are qualified. But with the lack of enforcement makes a farce of that.

Road safety is a joke in this country and this is perfect example, people simply don't take driving (or the laws) seriously.

If I was waiting less than 4 months even for a driving test I'd happily leave my L plates up, but as I've been waiting 5 and still no sign of one it's a bit ridiculous. I don't drive on the motorway because the law says I can't, I stick to speed limits becasue the law says I have to, I don't have a little sheet of white paper which i could hide behind muck if I wanted because the law on that is ridiculous. I pay through the nose for insurance, but it's ok, because them little sheets will stop me crashing

Squirrel

TempestSabre wrote:

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/provisional_driving_licence.html

"...All provisional licence holders, must display L-plates to the front and rear of the vehicle they are driving at all times. ..."

Better hope that question doesn't come up.;)

Have you ever sped? Have you ever even moved the car on your road without wearing your seatbelt?

I'm not condoning driving without L plates. But I don't see how they make the roads safer? What is the punishment for not having L plates do you know? Makes no mention of it there

TempestSabre

Do you have a list of the laws you ignore?

TempestSabre

Squirrel wrote:

Have you ever sped? Have you ever even moved the car on your road without wearing your seatbelt?

I'm not condoning driving without L plates. But I don't see how they make the roads safer? What is the punishment for not having L plates do you know? Makes no mention of it there

They make the roads safer because everyone knows to give you space and consideration, your likely to do something unexpected due to inexperience.

For example a huge exhaust and a bat wing on a yaris is natures way of saying "muppet steer clear" to everone else.

ai ing

TempestSabre wrote:

The L plate is for you to learn to drive not drive everywhere unqualified. Thats why you are meant to have a qualified driver with you to prevent people using the L plate as a means of transport before they are qualified. But with the lack of enforcement makes a farce of that.

Road safety is a joke in this country and this is perfect example, people simply don't take driving (or the laws) seriously.

For a majority of people it only takes a few months at most to learn how to drive well enough for general driving and to pass their test. With the waiting lists for tests over a year in some places you must understand the gaping hole in the
regulation. Even the Gardai understand the problem to the extent that they often do not care about someone driving on a provisional license.

As an example how would you feel if you went to get your TV license but told you cannot get it for a year. Would you get rid of your tv for the year while waiting for your license or would you simply keep watching your tv?

TempestSabre

ai ing wrote:

For a majority of people it only takes a few months at most to learn how to drive well enough for general driving and to pass their test....

Why then is there a approx a 50% failure rate of the 1st test.

Consider that in relation to the numbers of people of the road who wouldn't or didn't pass the test, but yet are on the road.

Stark

I always leave my L-plates up. Never got hassle from other drivers that I haven't noticed people without L-plates getting.

I also notice the gardaí don't give a **** when they see you driving on the motorways with L-plates up. Although I was a bit nervous heading down a slip-road onto the M50 before sandwiched between two garda cars front and back of me

the_syco

TempestSabre wrote:

Why then is there a approx a 50% failure rate of the 1st test.

Consider that in relation to the numbers of people of the road who wouldn't or didn't pass the test, but yet are on the road.

Consider the amount of people who have a full license, but who never sat the test. Consider that anyone who has a license can become a teacher, without having to learn how to teach. And there are some bad teachers out there. I think that industry is unregulated, as well.

Mate takes them off. Reason: with them on, other drivers ignore you to the point of nearly casuing an accident, knowing well that the L-Driver will be blamed.

Sam Vimes

maidhc wrote:

The car that was moving, i.e. the learner.

How hard is it to be able to do a hill start? Spend a few hours some saturday or sunday practicing in some quiet cul-de-sac or empty industrial estate.

well i can do them, i just psych myself out and get nervous when i'm sitting there for ages waiting for the light to go green with someone up my arse. its grand when i do it. i just get nervous about it

Stark

the_syco wrote:

Consider that anyone who has a license can become a teacher, without having to learn how to teach. And there are some bad teachers out there. I think that industry is unregulated, as well.

I've had many lessons from many different instructors and although they all came highly recommended, they all told me completely different things regarding what way to drive. I really ****ing wish they'd train all instructors and give them the definitive rules of driving. Better still, actually publish a more verbose version of the rules of the road so you don't have to take the instructor's word on something.

Squirrel

TempestSabre wrote:

They make the roads safer because everyone knows to give you space and consideration, your likely to do something unexpected due to inexperience.

For example a huge exhaust and a bat wing on a yaris is natures way of saying "muppet steer clear" to everone else.

As does old guy driving a Rover. These are generalisations, I have friends, on provisionals that would be better drivers than my sister, mother who both have full licences.

Would you behave differently if someone had L plates up in front of you?

Heinrich

Squirrel wrote:

IOh and I have applied for my driving test and if I was in a different country I'd have a chance to show that I'm a competent driver, if I fail I'll put my L-Plates back up when I get my test

If you were caught driving in Switzerland without L plates and accompanied by driver with a minimun of 2 years driving experience you woulf find yourself in very serious trouble!

Unfortunately it is up to the driving testers to decide if you are competent or not.

Squirrel

Heinrich wrote:

If you were caught driving in Switzerland without L plates and accompanied by driver with a minimun of 2 years driving experience you woulf find yourself in very serious trouble!

Unfortunately it is up to the driving testers to decide if you are competent or not.

Unfortunately that is the case. What is the waiting time for the test in Switzerland?

TempestSabre

Squirrel wrote:

As does old guy driving a Rover. These are generalisations, ...

Actually its experience.

How do you know its an old guy driving a rover from behind?

Squirrel wrote:

I have friends, on provisionals that would be better drivers than my sister, mother who both have full licences.

Yet they have full licences...;)

Squirrel wrote:

Would you behave differently if someone had L plates up in front of you?

Already answered this.

maidhc

Squirrel wrote:

As does old guy driving a Rover. These are generalisations, I have friends, on provisionals that would be better drivers than my sister, mother who both have full licences.

Better perhaps, but safer?

If someone is a crap driver, but well aware of this and drives at an appropiate manner they will generally be safe drivers. Problem at the moment is there are so many muppets on the road (many young and inexperienced) who believe they are a love child of alonso and schumacher. They probably are quite good drivers, but nowhere near as good as they think, take completely silly risks, and ultimately die.

Passing the driving test involves a quick spin around town, and doesn't really evaluate your skill, maturity and general cop on. The lengthy waiting list, and accompanied driver regime at least gives people the opportunity to get experience. I hope no one here believes that anyone should be left drive unaccompanied without restrictions without at LEAST 3 months experience driving, and ideally more.

When I started drving at 17 I KNOW I took far more risks than I do now, some in hindsight were suicidal.

Heinrich

Squirrel wrote:

Unfortunately that is the case. What is the waiting time for the test in Switzerland?

What would that change. If you are supposed to have an experienced driver accompagnying then that's that! The judge would set you straight on that one and probably with a fine thrown in.

You don't make the laws, you abide by them.

TempestSabre

Without effective enforcement of the prov law what happens in reality is that in this country if you don't have any licence or training to drive a car, your unlikely to be caught unless you have a accident.

saobh_ie

I don't have mine up because I'm not learning anymore.

Not, I'm learning all the time as should everybody else. You can be driving for twenty years and still have stuff to learn.

Okay, once you pass the DOE test there's no instructors about for cars (I haven't been able to find an car instrutor with skill yet) but I passed the bike test two years ago and am taking training whenever I have a bit of extra cash knocking around to clean up my skills and learn that little bit more from a professional. (motorcycle instruction is typically at a level 30 to 50 times above what you get in a driving school).

NeMiSiS

You see.. genrally.. the lessons people get are geared towards the very basics of driving car, very soon after the lessons are geared towards 'getting you to pass the test', this is flawed, because the test well.. the test is a load of crap.
TK

TempestSabre

NeMiSiS wrote:

You see.. genrally.. the lessons people get are geared towards the very basics of driving car, very soon after the lessons are geared towards 'getting you to pass the test', this is flawed, because the test well.. the test is a load of crap.
TK

How is driving on a prov with no test or instruction better?

NeMiSiS

It aint, what I was getting at is, the test itself is not suffiucent, where exactly did I say driving on a prov with no instruction was better ? I think you misunderstood.. or I wasn't clear enough..
TK

professore

TempestSabre wrote:

Actually its experience.

How do you know its an old guy driving a rover from behind?


Yet they have full licences...;)



Already answered this.

For the old guy, you can see the silhouette of the cap or wisps of hair flying all over the place. Also, 87 reg, 10 kph on a 100 kph road, clouds of black smoke, 5 mile tailback behind said driver, straw poking out from boot, L-plate boy racer overtaking him on blind bend tend to be clues ....

TempestSabre

professore wrote:

For the old guy, you can see the silhouette of the cap or wisps of hair flying all over the place. Also, 87 reg, 10 kph on a 100 kph road, clouds of black smoke, 5 mile tailback behind said driver, straw poking out from boot, L-plate boy racer overtaking him on blind bend tend to be clues ....

LOL

TempestSabre

NeMiSiS wrote:

It aint, what I was getting at is, the test itself is not suffiucent, where exactly did I say driving on a prov with no instruction was better ? I think you misunderstood.. or I wasn't clear enough..
TK

The suggestion (in general not you specifically) is that the test is not worth anything as an excuse for not passing it. While I admit the test is bogus, reducing your insurance should be all the incentive you need.

MrPudding

Commander Vimes wrote:

well i can do them, i just psych myself out and get nervous when i'm sitting there for ages waiting for the light to go green with someone up my arse. its grand when i do it. i just get nervous about it

One of the purposes of having a qualified driver in with a learner is to help calm them down and stop them from psyching themselves out.

A few weeks ago someone recounted a story where they had stall a bunch of time and the drivers behind where giving him dogs abuse. Some kindly old man came up to the window and told him it was OK, blah blah and got him calmed down. Very nice and all but should not have happened.

There is good reason for drivers being accompanied. The above being one. Antoher is that learners tend to concentrate on the mechanics of driving too much. This is natural, it is a new skill that needs to be learned. The problem is if you are concentrating too much on what foot is doing what and which hand is where you tend not to pay as much attention to the environment you are in. This is dangerous. This is another role for the qualified driver. An additino pair of eyes that can concentrate on what is going on around the car.

MrP

MrP

Squirrel

What would any of you class as experience? Just out of interest as one of the factors for L plates being said is experience.

_Kaiser_

Stark wrote:

I've had many lessons from many different instructors and although they all came highly recommended, they all told me completely different things regarding what way to drive. I really ****ing wish they'd train all instructors and give them the definitive rules of driving. Better still, actually publish a more verbose version of the rules of the road so you don't have to take the instructor's word on something.

Unfortunately it's not just the driving instructors who give differing options/advice/instructions. The Gardai do it too - have a look at this thread in Commuting/Transport.

When those that are charged with enforcing the laws of the road/land don't even know what they're doing, is it any wonder the system is in the state it's in?

It's the typically Irish thing of "it depends who you talk to" and influences every aspect of our society I'm afraid.
Add our other well known trait - the "ah sure it'll be grand" attitude - and who can really be suprised that things are the way they are. :mad: