Today i got hooted at....

Victor

Bunnyhopper wrote:

daymobrew, do you happen to know who I should contact about littering in the Phoenix Park? I emailed the OPW about an incident a while back, asking whether I should send the details to them or one of the Councils or what, and never heard a thing back from them. It was probably too long ago to follow it up now, but I'll know for future reference.

Yes, the OPW, try to find out who the park wardens / constables are.

Council has little to do with it unless the want to persue the OPW.

TempestSabre

tywy wrote:

I'm a driver and a cyclist...I will never take a chance with a cyclist...what if the swerve out to dodge a pothole, you clip them, you're fúcked, it's always the drivers fault, you lose your no claims bonus or whatever and possibly put someone in hospital. Not worth it for gaining the extra 30 secs you wait until the road is clear enough to overtake

Same here. However I'd say theres just as many bad and dangerous cyclists out there that obey no rules either. Though you do see the odd Guard stopping them from time to time.

Raam

TempestSabre wrote:

I'd say theres just as many bad and dangerous cyclists out there that obey no rules either.

Yup, there's plenty. It boils down to a distinct lack of respect for other road users: "I'm alright, so I don't care"

RainyDay

daymobrew wrote:

Call 1890-205-805 (TrafficWatch) to help remind the drivers of the rules.

I gave a statement this morning in Blanchardstown about a driver breaking a red light. He'll get a ticket. If he doesn't pay then we go to court.
Tomorrow morning I'm off to Mountjoy station about a guy making a dangerous u-turn on Drumcondra Road at Whitworth Road. And the SUV driver who blocked the pedestrian crossing at the same junction. I was soooo tempted to give the car a kick but this way is much sweeter.

You're my hero! I made the mistake of making some of my early reports directly to the Garda Station, instead of using the Traffic Watch. From the deafening silence, I guess that the station guard just ignored me. But when you go through traffic watch, the incident is logged on their system straight away, and is then passed over to the guard at the station, which makes it just a bit harder to ignore.

Last week, I used my mobile phone to take a few photos of the BMW driver who drove against me while taking a short cut the wrong way down a very narrow 1-way street (Richmond Avenue South, beside Milltown Luas station). The look on his face was priceless, but I'd pay good money to see the look on his face when the guard arrives at his door to follow up my Traffic Watch complaint.

irlirishkev

blorg wrote:

[*]Motorist overtakes and immediately turns left.
[/LIST]

This is my pet peeve. Motorists just DO NOT check their mirrors. A mate of mine was knocked off his bike recently when this happened. He was coming down the N11 by the Donnybrook garage. He was going straight on. A taxi driver overtook and immediatley swung in to turn left. My mate brakes, but was going quite fast. Ends up going over the bonnet and lands on the other side of the car. Driver didn't even get out of the car, just apologised and drove off. My mate was too angry/shaken to get the car details.

Just the other day I saw a cyclist get trapped between a car and a parked car, as a driver pulled in to park.

I'm constantly having to brake hard because of idiots who don't check their mirrors.. It really makes me angry!

K.

blorg

I'd note that overtake and immediately turn left isn't even a matter of not using mirrors as the driver starts off behind you. It's another case of simple "cyclist blindness," they just mentally block out the cyclist. Overtake and immediately turn left gappened to me with a taxi on Aungier Street and I ended up leaving black rubber marks from my grips the length of his car (pity I didn't have the ends exposed.) Of course he jumps out and is going mental at _me_ when a garda flicks over from the other side of the road, saw the whole thing, and starts threatening the taxi driver with a dangerous driving prosecution and loss of his license. Well I have never seen a turn-around like it, the driver is grovelling in his apology in short order.

tywy

RainyDay wrote:

Last week, I used my mobile phone to take a few photos of the BMW driver who drove against me while taking a short cut the wrong way down a very narrow 1-way street (Richmond Avenue South, beside Milltown Luas station). The look on his face was priceless, but I'd pay good money to see the look on his face when the guard arrives at his door to follow up my Traffic Watch complaint.

That's happened me a couple of times so I just cycle up the middle of the road...one car the other week got really pee-ed off and kept driving, I'd say she would have hit me if I hadn't moved out of the way. I got her to slow down though

RainyDay

tywy wrote:

That's happened me a couple of times so I just cycle up the middle of the road...one car the other week got really pee-ed off and kept driving, I'd say she would have hit me if I hadn't moved out of the way. I got her to slow down though

At the same location - Richmond Avenue South?

daymobrew

blorg wrote:

a garda flicks over from the other side of the road, saw the whole thing, and starts threatening the taxi driver with a dangerous driving prosecution and loss of his license.

I'm guessing that no action was taken against the driver, which is a real pity. The Gardai need to stop being nice to people (drivers, pedestrians and cyclists) and start dishing out punishments. People often need financial incentives to learn (didn't we all change our tune wrt plastic bags when they cost a measly 15c, a minute percentage of the probably groceries cost).

tywy

Yeah it's Richmond Ave South.

blorg

daymobrew wrote:

I'm guessing that no action was taken against the driver, which is a real pity. The Gardai need to stop being nice to people (drivers, pedestrians and cyclists) and start dishing out punishments. People often need financial incentives to learn (didn't we all change our tune wrt plastic bags when they cost a measly 15c, a minute percentage of the probably groceries cost).

No, the Garda told me that he told the taxi driver that he'd be filing a report and to expect to hear back from him in a few weeks, e.g. left him hanging. You are right that more needs to be done though, have a case ongoing at the moment that hopefully will be going to court.

TempestSabre

When I'm driving my pet peeve is cyclists and motorbikes undertaking me as I'm trying to turn left. Regardless that the indicator is on for an age and that I'm easing across. All it takes is to slow down a bit and a wave and I'd be gone before you get to the junction.

Traffic would flow a lot smoother is all users would leave little gaps to allow people to make turns, get out of junctions etc. Instead everyones racing to fill every tiny gap and block people regardless if it doesn't get you anywhere quicker.

This morning I was hooted by a biker because I slowed down slightly to let a bus pull out and around an obstruction in the bus lane. I must have held him up by what 5 secs?

blorg

Part of the problem there (with the cyclists anyway) is the design of the cycle "facilities" which generally encourage this behaviour.

TempestSabre

I think its just selfish and impatience and you see all road users increasingly doing it.

blorg

My point is that cycle lanes are on the left, inside the lane of the motorist turning left, and it's actually technically illegal to leave them (unless they have changed to a dashed line AND you are turning right AND have indicated this - not going straight on.)

Personally if I see a motorist indicating left approaching a junction I will swing right into the middle of the traffic lane behind them, making it clear that I'm not going to undertake. In fact I try to do this anyway, indicators or not, as many motorists don't bother indicating.

EDIT: I think this is common sense and considerate but technically I am breaking the law by doing so.

TempestSabre

Slowing down or stopping isn't illegal.

blorg

Sure, neither is slowing down or stopping illegal for the motorist and the guy in the cycle lane going straight on actually has the right of way.

TempestSabre

Thats got nothing to do with it.

When driving or cycling even with right of way I often slow down or stop to let people out, it just makes life less stressful, and personally I prefer to take positive action and have someone where I can see them. But I guess if you're too busy to be nice to someone...;)

skeegan

Yesterday morning I was undertaking a car that was turning left. There was no cycle lane present (though there will be soon -it's the Rock Road). I checked his indicator before passing him on the inside in heavy traffic. As I was passing him, he turned left and I clipped his mirror. He rolled down the window. Neither of us were too angry and there was no damage done. I am 99% sure that his indicator was not on though he claims it was. I believe he switched it on as he was making the turn.

Does anybody know the legal position of bikes (or other vehicles) undertaking? Is it legal in all (or any) circumstances?

TempestSabre

Indicating as you turn and move is a really dangerous habit many fall into. Especially buses and taxi's.

tywy

It is legal to overtake someone on the inside if

i) you are there are 2 lanes and you are planning to take a left turn ahead
ii) the car is taking a right turn and you are continuing straight ahead
iii) the traffic is slow moving

One thing about cars getting píssed off about cyclists not allowing them to turn left, how about cars not allowing cyclists to take a right turn. You stick out your right hand but it's generally ignored and cars accelerate to overtake you.

Another question, about the gap that should be left when a car overtakes a cyclist. Should the car leave enough room so that the cyclist is able to indicate. Like what if a car is overtaking me and then I want to indicate a right turn and I stick out my hand and hit the car...I know this would never happen, but I'm still curious.

Gavin

I was under the impression that in fact the driver has the right of way when turning to the left.. Similar to how buses are required to give way to cars turning to the left.

I shall go read up on it.

Gav

blorg

TempestSabre wrote:

When driving or cycling even with right of way I often slow down or stop to let people out, it just makes life less stressful, and personally I prefer to take positive action and have someone where I can see them. But I guess if you're too busy to be nice to someone...;)

Sure, and I already stated that I _don't_ undertake anyone who is indicating that they are turning left but pull right behind them to make clear that I'm not going to attempt it! I also frequently let people out presuming I'm not going at speed and don't overtake buses that have signalled they are pulling out from a bus stop!

I'm just commenting on your post that "it's not illegal for a cyclist to stop"; sure, but that's reciprocal and why should a cyclist be _expected_ to? As I'm sure you are aware as a cylist we like to conserve forward momentum yet cycle "facilites" are generally designed with the idea that cyclists can be made stop every few metres; a good example is some crossing facilities where a cyclist making a right turn might be expected to stop and use up to four or more button-press crossings while a motorist has only one. Or the off-road cycle lanes where there are yields every few metres.

I'm getting the right of way thing from previous boards threads on the topic, the argument being that forward moving traffic has right of way over turning traffic. Of course this is just the specific case of these straight-ahead cycle lanes, shouldn't be doing it in their absence and no excuse ever for motorcyclists. Personally, I don't do it anyway, both out of a sense of consideration _and_ my own safety. I'm just pointing out that the facilities and laws are designed to encourage inconsiderate and dangerous behaviours.

TempestSabre

If your only nice because its expected, thats poor.

Gavin

"Don't Feed The Trolls"

blorg

I'm nice plenty of the time when it's not expected, I can assure you. I repeat, I _don't_ undertake a vehicle indicating a left turn. My point is only with regard to how the facilities/laws are actually designed to _encourage_ the very behaviour that annoys you.

EDIT: And Verb, not sure exactly what you are on about trolls, both myself and TempestSabre are regular posters.

blorg

With regard to the "yield to cyclists in a cycle lane when turning left" thing, it's certainly that way in the UK, from the Highway code:

Turning left

158: Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists and motorcyclists in particular may be hidden from your view.

Do not cut in on cyclists

159: When turning

• keep as close to the left as is safe and practical
• give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction.

Could of course be different here, the UK don't have that silly law making cycle lane use mandatory that we are graced with.

EDIT: And from the Irish Rules of the Road (new Draft):

Care should be taken when turning left in case a cyclist on the inside is continuing straight ahead.

...

TURNING LEFT AT JUNCTIONS
Check for following traffic well in advance. Give a left turn signal and slow down. Watch particularly for cyclists or motorcyclists coming up on your left. Keep as close as is feasible to the left edge of the roadway. Make the turn, again keeping close to the left hand edge. Do not hit or mount the kerb.

DO NOT SWING WIDE WHEN MAKING THE TURN AND ALWAYS GIVE WAY TO PEDESTRIANS AND CYCLISTS CROSSING AT THE JUNCTION.

...

DRIVERS AND CYCLISTS
Drivers should allow cyclists at the advanced stop line to move off ahead of other traffic. When turning left, all drivers, especially drivers of heavy goods vehicles, should watch out for cyclists and other two wheel riders going ahead.

TempestSabre

blorg wrote:

I'm nice plenty of the time when it's not expected, I can assure you. I repeat, I _don't_ undertake a vehicle indicating a left turn. My point is only with regard to how the facilities/laws are actually designed to _encourage_ the very behaviour that annoys you.

I'm sure you are. Its just not typical behavior of most roads users which is a pity. I think people used to do it more in the past. I take your point about the infrastructure, but the majority of road users are selective about the rules they adhere to. So claiming you adhere to the rules, but then break them at a left turn at a red light etc. Not that you personally do or anything.

blorg wrote:

EDIT: And Verb, not sure exactly what you are on about trolls, both myself and TempestSabre are regular posters.

I must be the trouser clips. They do nothing for me ...

cast_iron

daymobrew wrote:

I gave a statement this morning in Blanchardstown about a driver breaking a red light. He'll get a ticket. If he doesn't pay then we go to court.

I'm not so sure it works like this. One statement from one person should not mean a ticket/court case. If you lie - you are in contempt, if the offender lies - he is. What does that prove?

daymobrew wrote:

Tomorrow morning I'm off to Mountjoy station about a guy making a dangerous u-turn on Drumcondra Road at Whitworth Road. And the SUV driver who blocked the pedestrian crossing at the same junction. I was soooo tempted to give the car a kick but this way is much sweeter.

I'm glad you have nothing better to be doing.

blorg

Sure, although in this case I am saying specifically that I _don't_ adhere to the rules about staying in a cycle lane both for my own safety and out of consideration for motorists (if you stay in the lane even if slowing down or stopping many motorists will indeed _not_ turn across you or at least take forever until they are 100% sure you are not going on, so changing lane and getting behind them is the most sensible thing to do if you are letting them turn.)

I'm just pointing out what the facilities and rules are. Sure we are all selective. But I don't get annoyed at another road user when I know I am breaking the law and they are following it, that is all.