I am a fish / donk - can you help me??

5starpool

lafortezza wrote:

WTF @ this thread.

Don't you be doing any lockymifying of this here thread now, you hear?

Lafortezza

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717672

fiddlesticks

lafortezza wrote:

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717672

Now that is funnnnnny!!!:D

Hectorjelly

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717696

califano

Ed Moulton is the master of the Hi-Ku.

Waving a white flag
Then ambushing your captors
Why else wave the sh!t

Ancient Indians
used to gamble heavily
on the next rainfall

The cheaters would dance
Hidden inside their teepees
and be paid in pelts

-Ed Moulton-

BigDragon

BOPS

phantom_lord

BigDragon wrote:

BOPS

lol, dam. I should have thought of that. :rolleyes:

NickyOD

lafortezza wrote:

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717672

Ah crap, they don't have any porn clips.

califano

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717775

bops

aodea - ty (for my part) - i find it a tad more interesting than guessing how the poor boardster gets his aces cracked by...you know the rest...

Tact - nice work!!

NickyOD - altho i smell sarcasim - well said!

RoundTower - Far be it from me to give you advice on your play which might rob you of your individuality and turn you into another mindless soulless rock atlho reaking with sarcasim - you completely underestimate the strenght of your excellent point imo

Gholimoli - alsolute bolix - and my point in a nutshell - i cudda stayed up all night and i couldn't have phrased my counter-arguement any better ty

Big City banker - and there was foolish me thinking you were not one of the flock - ah well silly me i suppose

bubbleking - yes you boardies rock alright! - its funny to think that the one night in the last month that i made a heavy loss in a live cash game (2k) i played a very solid mathematical based game and was ripped apart by 8 v drunk clowns/donks/fish there were 2 other decent players at the table you also left empty handed shakin there heads - true story!!

Samba - 100% open to general criticisms - just being polite and responding to each individual one and givin further info and my reasoning and opinion with 100% honesty!!

Reasoning for raising utg with 72 - simple - 2 orbits later - did v same raise with AA got 3 callers - pushed on raggy flop - 1 caller with top pair - took down 280 pot / alternative reason i was having fun!

SumGuy - yep 1st post was a bit wishywashy - soz! - but i sorta wanted to keep it kinda non-specific
and YES the mortal sin element is key to this discussion - nice of you to give it some real thought - thanks

Ianmc38 - no offence taken my friend and thanks! of course they are -EV, but that why they're mentioned!

HectorJelly - (yep i rem u now alright) -lol : )

El Stuntman - im tired m8 : ) but....
I find myself nodding my head at the sentiment

probably encapsulates why I've given up on online poker

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RESULT...now it has all been WORTHWHILE

afferetti - none of the above, but i can tell from your questions you are the enemy!!

shamrock / cesars palace / blazin aces seldom - newbay most wednesdays and sometimes at the weekend

Samba - unfortunatley its the best way imo to get a truely honest reaction...

Lafortezza - WTF @ this thread. ...dont ask me! ; )

5starpool: good man!! : )

Big Dragon - wow lol thats me alright!! wtf is that??


On a side note - i'm just very satisified that i managed to get your thoughts, it's good to have a meaningful heated debate now and again?? - apologies if i've offended anyone along the way - no offence intended - good night and gl
: )

Lafortezza

Hectorjelly wrote:

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717696

OMG flashbacks to my college days.

Lafortezza

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717871

luckyvegas7

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717908

BigDragon

luckyvegas7 wrote:

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717908

Thats not BOP answering the phone................ITS THE CHIEF...standard advice too!

Dub13

Culchie

Feck it, it's late

http://theteatime.free.fr/talc/rocky.html

5starpool

I might as well give it a go too

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717929

Culchie

My first movie


http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1717932

careca

You lads have way too much fcuking time on your hands. LOL though.

Bobs, one hand I would love to know the betting patterns for is the hand where you hit the wheel on the river. Other guy had hit set of Ks on turn and I'd like to know how much you called on turn bet. If you can remember.


Could have been implied odds

TacT

LOL, thanks for the morning laughs everybody, I needed that. Yesterday sucked

bops

careca wrote:

You lads have way too much fcuking time on your hands. LOL though.

Bobs, one hand I would love to know the betting patterns for is the hand where you hit the wheel on the river. Other guy had hit set of Ks on turn and I'd like to know how much you called on turn bet. If you can remember.


Could have been implied odds

I find the above hand very very interesting for many reasons...
Here's Exactly how it played out...

Blinds 1/2 only 6 at table at this stage...

UTG €200
Me €1000
BB €300

UTG raises it to 15
he's a poker friend of mine and was vvv solid - he had managed to get his stack from 200 to up 700 - but was on a bad downward spiral and was back to 200 and getting very pissed due to the number of times he has been outdrawn (...not all by me!) - he has been quiet for a while.

anyway i look down at 73 and begin to laugh, pat him on the shoulder and apologise in advance for what i am about to do to him - i know he has AA KK or QQ - no other option - anyway he laughs...

Folded around to BB who makes the call.
BB is a very good player - plays only live 1/2 cash games every night and probably makes a good living from it. he has 30 yrs good experience playing poker etc etc...

Flop 2 4 5 rainbow
Pot €46

Raiser bets 25
2 callers - im still laughing!
Riaser knows the flop is my cuppa tea!

Turn K
Pot €121

Raiser bets 55
I call - still laughing!!

BB askes Raiser how much he has left (gulp) the answer is 100
BB raises it to 155
Raiser calls and is all in

around to me:

OK this is where i gotta think for a min...
Pot at the moment is 486 so im getting just about odds?? to see the river for 100 with 8 outs...the only possible hand that im afraid of here is BB holding 36
- if A hits i may be in trouble / if 6 hits ive the nuts...anyway i reluctantly make the call

River A
Pot 586
Raiser all in

I check
BB moves all in for 92
I call

BB shows 22 and has set of 2's
UTG shows KK and has a set of K's
I show 73 and have a straight
I win pot of 770

Now the most interesting part of the hands is as follows:

UTG stormed off shaking his head and was giving out away from the table for 15 mins...donk/fish/blah blah/etc...

The BB looks at my hand and says "oh you have the 3 - well done" in a non sarcastic friendly tone and reaches back into his pocket to buy in again.

I think the difference between the 2 reactions is key to my argument...
My response would have been similar to UTG's a couple of years ago, but now it would be exactly like BBs.


He believed that he played it right and wants me to do the same every time...

BTW to the rest of ye above LOL

patmac

LOL brilliant Giggs to Saha to the fat kid penalty, he made a meal of that no contact.
Here's one
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=244779989091726735

5starpool

bops wrote:

BTW to the rest of ye above LOL

Stop being amused and not reacting to it. We, the frustrated denizens of the Poker forum demand that you react in a childish way which enables us to make fun of you in a slighlty vicious which will enhance our sense of moral superiority. Mods, tell him........

ianmc38

bops wrote:

I find the above hand very very interesting for many reasons...
Here's Exactly how it played out...

Blinds 1/2 only 6 at table at this stage...

UTG €200
Me €1000
BB €300

UTG raises it to 15
he's a poker friend of mine and was vvv solid - he had managed to get his stack from 200 to up 700 - but was on a bad downward spiral and was back to 200 and getting very pissed due to the number of times he has been outdrawn (...not all by me!) - he has been quiet for a while.

anyway i look down at 73 and begin to laugh, pat him on the shoulder and apologise in advance for what i am about to do to him - i know he has AA KK or QQ - no other option - anyway he laughs...

Folded around to BB who makes the call.
BB is a very good player - plays only live 1/2 cash games every night and probably makes a good living from it. he has 30 yrs good experience playing poker etc etc...

Flop 2 4 5 rainbow
Pot €46

Raiser bets 25
2 callers - im still laughing!
Riaser knows the flop is my cuppa tea!

Turn K
Pot €121

Raiser bets 55
I call - still laughing!!

BB askes Raiser how much he has left (gulp) the answer is 100
BB raises it to 155
Raiser calls and is all in

around to me:

OK this is where i gotta think for a min...
Pot at the moment is 486 so im getting just about odds?? to see the river for 100 with 8 outs...the only possible hand that im afraid of here is BB holding 36
- if A hits i may be in trouble / if 6 hits ive the nuts...anyway i reluctantly make the call

River A
Pot 586
Raiser all in

I check
BB moves all in for 92
I call

BB shows 22 and has set of 2's
UTG shows KK and has a set of K's
I show 73 and have a straight
I win pot of 770

Now the most interesting part of the hands is as follows:

UTG stormed off shaking his head and was giving out away from the table for 15 mins...donk/fish/blah blah/etc...

The BB looks at my hand and says "oh you have the 3 - well done" in a non sarcastic friendly tone and reaches back into his pocket to buy in again.

I think the difference between the 2 reactions is key to my argument...
My response would have been similar to UTG's a couple of years ago, but now it would be exactly like BBs.


He believed that he played it right and wants me to do the same every time...

BTW to the rest of ye above LOL

You played the hand perfectly, putting money in when getting great odds to hit your straight, knowing they'll both put the rest of their stacks in once you've hit. WP.

phantom_lord

bops wrote:

He believed that he played it right and wants me to do the same every time...

BTW to the rest of ye above LOL

I'd love you to call with 73o preflop everytime I've kings/aces!

White Knight

bops wrote:

he's a poker friend of mine and was vvv solid

, BB is a very good player

Pot 586
Raiser all in

I check
BB moves all in for 92
I call

You check the river of a 586 euro pot with a player with 92 behind with the 2nd nuts against 2 "solid/good" players that you know do not have the nuts but have big hands ... i see ... wp :rolleyes:

5starpool

ianmc38 wrote:

You played the hand perfectly, putting money in when getting great odds to hit your straight, knowing they'll both put the rest of their stacks in once you've hit. WP.

my detector is going crazy here......

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Gholimoli

bops wrote:

I find the above hand very very interesting for many reasons...
Here's Exactly how it played out...

Blinds 1/2 only 6 at table at this stage...

UTG €200
Me €1000
BB €300

UTG raises it to 15
he's a poker friend of mine and was vvv solid - he had managed to get his stack from 200 to up 700 - but was on a bad downward spiral and was back to 200 and getting very pissed due to the number of times he has been outdrawn (...not all by me!) - he has been quiet for a while.

anyway i look down at 73 and begin to laugh, pat him on the shoulder and apologise in advance for what i am about to do to him - i know he has AA KK or QQ - no other option - anyway he laughs...

Folded around to BB who makes the call.
BB is a very good player - plays only live 1/2 cash games every night and probably makes a good living from it. he has 30 yrs good experience playing poker etc etc...

Flop 2 4 5 rainbow
Pot €46

Raiser bets 25
2 callers - im still laughing!
Riaser knows the flop is my cuppa tea!

Turn K
Pot €121

Raiser bets 55
I call - still laughing!!

BB askes Raiser how much he has left (gulp) the answer is 100
BB raises it to 155
Raiser calls and is all in

around to me:

OK this is where i gotta think for a min...
Pot at the moment is 486 so im getting just about odds?? to see the river for 100 with 8 outs...the only possible hand that im afraid of here is BB holding 36
- if A hits i may be in trouble / if 6 hits ive the nuts...anyway i reluctantly make the call

River A
Pot 586
Raiser all in

I check
BB moves all in for 92
I call

BB shows 22 and has set of 2's
UTG shows KK and has a set of K's
I show 73 and have a straight
I win pot of 770

Now the most interesting part of the hands is as follows:

UTG stormed off shaking his head and was giving out away from the table for 15 mins...donk/fish/blah blah/etc...

The BB looks at my hand and says "oh you have the 3 - well done" in a non sarcastic friendly tone and reaches back into his pocket to buy in again.

I think the difference between the 2 reactions is key to my argument...
My response would have been similar to UTG's a couple of years ago, but now it would be exactly like BBs.


He believed that he played it right and wants me to do the same every time...

BTW to the rest of ye above LOL

Oh man ,what can i say,bloody genius this hand is.
how you outplayed the V V V good players that bets hlaf the pot with two players on 2 4 5 board,and the BB who is also very SOLID and GOOD and leaves him self with only 100 on the turn.
and your check on the river with BB only 100 behind when the pot is nearly 500 ... WOW just wow ...maybe some day i'll be this good untill then i can only read in admiration .

bops

5starpool: Stop being amused and not reacting to it...
lol again and good point : )

ianmc38: ty (i think!)

Phantom Lord : I'd love you to call with 73o preflop everytime I've kings/aces! - exactly - me too! - alas only 80% of the time tho...

White Knight: yep i check the river - 586 in the middle - im happy with that -dont give a fk about his 92 quid - he's gonna push anyways - if he had more i'd have put him in...have you even considered that fact that maybe - just maybe - the best way for me to get his 92 is to check?? i know he is massiveky pot committed etc - but he probably had me on a srt8 draw?? - anyway the main point here is that i didn't give a fk about his 92 quid

5starpool/luckylord: lol

Gholimoli: I didn't outplay anybody - i went fishing and hit...
solid player hits top set on turn and bets 1/3 of his stack - bad play????
good player has bottom set and reraises solid player all in - bad play??

There is clearly only 1 player who played this hand badly - and that was me calling the raise preflop in the first place??

Reasons for not pushing on river - see reply above to White Knight...

Gholi - You really have a very bad attitude problem, remindes me of the other night in the jackpot when you were short stacked and would accept a decent deal when the other 5 players had agreed - the deal was "friendly" and did not effect 1st place which you and I were playing for - anyways I really cant see how you actually manage to enjoy playing poker and i am very much looking forward to playing with you again - I love playing opponents with your attitude towards the game and the others around you -lets just put it that way!!

bops

...alas the point i was trying to make about the hand were the reactions to it...

ianmc38

Bops dont mind Gholi and them giving out to you. You played the hand perfectly. The check on the river fools the opponents in the hand into thinking you have two pair or maybe middle set, thus putting in the rest of their tanks which they wouldn't do if you just open pushed the river. WP sir.

shaydy

bops wrote:

anyway the main point here is that i didn't give a fk about his 92 quid

Bops, why would you not give a fk about his 92 quid?? Your limiting your potential winnings , this just doesn't make sense and is a losing mentality in my opinion.

I like your point about poker being fun though and not playing by the numbers, thats the chiefs rule!!:p , but you have to understand that there are people out there that play poker to solely make money and win and that is where they extract their 'fun'. From what i've read you get enjoyment from making -ev calls with some of the worst hands in poker 73o for example and in your example you got extremely lucky and hit. You have to expect some sort of reaction when you've just cleaned your opponent from some dubious play.

btw, can we cut pages 2, 3 & 4, some of the best reading/watching ive seen in ages them video clips a fcuking hilarious!!

Gholimoli

bops wrote:

White Knight: have you even considered that fact that maybe - just maybe - the best way for me to get his 92 is to check??

Wow ,genuis....

bops wrote:

Gholi - You really have a very bad attitude problem, remindes me of the other night in the jackpot when you were short stacked and would accept a decent deal when the other 5 players had agreed - the deal was "friendly" and did not effect 1st place which you and I were playing for - anyways I really cant see how you actually manage to enjoy playing poker and i am very much looking forward to playing with you again - I love playing opponents with your attitude towards the game and the others around you -lets just put it that way!!

i dont play poker to make friends or to be liked ,i play to make money and to that aim im really not that botherd about what you think of my attitude.
as for the deal on that night man you gotta be joking me...
what the hell would i wanna make a deal on a table where one of the remamning players is you,the other one is a guy who has 3BB left and is prob his first time making a final table(this dude agreed to the same deal after i was gone and there was only 5 players left and he had prob half the chips in play,shows how confident he was about his game) .
the only player on that table who i had any respect for was Dusty and Adam cuz some 1 told me he was a good player.
now why on earth would i agree to a deal when there is 2600 for second and they are suggesting to break that to less than a 1K???
it would be no FUN for me to do that dude.

White Knight

bops wrote:

have you even considered that fact that maybe - just maybe - the best way for me to get his 92 is to check??

I considered it (brief millisecond) and double checked the size of the pot and how much he had behind (that took half a second with a 2nd recount) and thought it was ludicrous .. ludicrous for a "pro", even more so for a donk ... of course im not calling you either of these. wp sir

Gholimoli

ianmc38 wrote:

Bops dont mind Gholi and them giving out to you. You played the hand perfectly. The check on the river fools the opponents in the hand into thinking you have two pair or maybe middle set, thus putting in the rest of their tanks which they wouldn't do if you just open pushed the river. WP sir.

LMAO.
leave him alone Ian.

bops

ianmc38: lol ty again - it is the perfect reply (as was the BBs in the hand in question). It is the clever response made only by players who know what they're on about. I guess that you are a good player and have been playing for a while?

shaydy:
Bops, why would you not give a fk about his 92 quid?? Your limiting your potential winnings , this just doesn't make sense and is a losing mentality in my opinion.

I like your point about poker being fun though and not playing by the numbers, thats the chiefs rule!! , but you have to understand that there are people out there that play poker to solely make money and win and that is where they extract their 'fun'. From what i've read you get enjoyment from making -ev calls with some of the worst hands in poker 73o for example and in your example you got extremely lucky and hit. You have to expect some sort of reaction when you've just cleaned your opponent from some dubious play.

true about the 92 quid i suppose...
valid point about players extracting "fun" on a profit basis only...
of course i expect a reaction - but its the difference in the reactions which i am interested in...
ty btw good intelligent post

Gholi - my bestest buddy!!]here we go again....sigh
fair enough in relation to your reasons for playing - sorta obvious and gl 2 u
strange tho if you think about it - your refrusal of the deal was a -EV call if ive ever seen one - u planned on finnishing 2nd from 6?? - otherwise the deal was only positive?? - BTW where did you finish?? Bad call m8!!

White Knight: how about this:
the fact that i checked led him to make a bad move with his 92 push on the river. This led him to going back into his pocket - giving me the opprtunity to make more profits - which i took full advantage of.
On the other hand if I push and he calls (he's has to as you know) - he makes a necessary call, not a bad one - and maybe goes home??
- ye guys really dont see the bigger picture

Gholi - (sigh)
see what i replied to ianmc38 above and invert it...

5starpool

bops wrote:

- ye guys really dont see the bigger picture

The bigger picture should not be big enough to see people calling raises with 73o. It is not as if you are getting correct odds to call here either preflop, on the flop, or on the turn, especially if one of the possible hands for UTG is AA which reduces your max outs to 6, and your odds from 6/1 to 8/1.

ianmc38

I called a raise once with 37o. The flop was 337. LuckyLloyd was a witness. I stacked AK with it.

Bops like me (and unlike Gholimoli obviously) understands the concept of implied odds. He knew he could stack AA if he hit his straight. And he did while getting a good price on turn and river. If they'd bet the pot he'd probably have folded, but they priced him in.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

bops

5starpool wrote:

The bigger picture should not be big enough to see people calling raises with 73o. It is not as if you are getting correct odds to call here either preflop, on the flop, or on the turn, especially if one of the possible hands for UTG is AA which reduces your max outs to 6, and your odds from 6/1 to 8/1.

the bigger picture remark was with reference to my check on the river - i have no agrument for me calling preflop/flop on a maths basis - the turn is debateable tho...correct - i had him at that point limited to AA or KK - more likely AA...so I suppose 7/1 would be a fair guess...anyways not the point im gettin at...

5starpool

bops wrote:

the bigger picture remark was with reference to my check on the river - i have no agrument for me calling preflop/flop on a maths basis - the turn is debateable tho...correct - i had him at that point limited to AA or KK - more likely AA...so I suppose 7/1 would be a fair guess...anyways not the point im gettin at...

Well as for that, if you had him pegged (even with a 90% probability) on AA or KK then the check on the river is consistent with how you played the hand and he is certain to bet with eith of those given the river. Was there any flush draw on board?

bops

ianmc38 wrote:

I called a raise once with 37o. The flop was 337. LuckyLloyd was a witness. I stacked AK with it.

Bops like me (and unlike Gholimoli obviously) understands the concept of implied odds. He knew he could stack AA if he hit his straight. And he did while getting a good price on turn and river. If they'd bet the pot he'd probably have folded, but they priced him in.

Thanks ian - (great name that btw!! - im ianie on tribecca - bops is dead due to rake issues!!)
i honestly dont think you are being sarcastic here - so all the above is EXACTLY my thoughts on how I played this hand
...be careful undermining Gholi tho - he's not a very nice fella : )

nicnicnic

I know bops fairly well and he is a nice guy whom i love like a brother when extremely intoxicated. I haven't actually played that much with him and the first time i did play i thought him tight passive although he did beat me heads up in that tournament. I would imagine his game has improved since then

Bops I think i can get to the bottom of this seven rag syndrome you seem to be going through and as a psychologist yourself i would like you to digest my observations before dismissing them.

I believe it all stems back to the Irish Open this year when you came over the top of mister Black in the main event preflop with 7 4 os. Your cognitive thinking has somehow developed in a way that it assimilates any 7 rag as the nuts since that moment, now just call me Sigmund but get that super ego back in check man

ianmc38

LuckyLloyd wrote:

MMmmm...you did. This was on the same night that you donked €350 off to me on a hand after correctly declaring that I had you beat.

I went home that night thinking that you were truly a poker playing genius and that Phil Ivey would stand no chance against you heads up....

Stop bringing that up you fúcking fúcktard. If I'd known you better I would have folded. The only hand I could put you on that had me beaten was the one you held. If i'd known you were a rocky nut peddler that never bluffs back then (:p ) I obviously wouldnt have called.

Now please give me some respite and put that hand to bed else I'm gonna kick you very hard in the nads next time I see you. Either that or i'll pay somebody to mug you as you walk out of the SE, take 350 from your wallet and tell you we're quits (then get him to kick you in the nads and say how do you like demz apples).

Mmmmmk.

bops

LuckyLloyd wrote:

MMmmm...you did. This was on the same night that you donked €350 off to me on a hand after correctly declaring that I had you beat.

I went home that night thinking that you were truly a poker playing genius and that Phil Ivey would stand no chance against you heads up....

the kind of reply you would come to expect...sigh

ianmc38

PS Lloyd you played the hand terribly.

Gholimoli

here is the big picutre that i dont understand lads:

guy has $200 in his stack ,

he makes it $10 to play,
i suspect he has AA,KK and i have 73o but i know if he flop two pair or better i will stack him :
wow lets see

i think the odds of flopping two pair is something like 50:1(2%) (could be wrong about the odds here).

so we assume everytime we hit two pair we will stack him (winning $200) and everytime we dont we lose our $10.
lets do a simple EV for this genius idea:

i win $200 2% of the time so $200x2%=4
i lose $10 98% of the time so -$10x98%=-9.8

so over all my play has the EV of -5.8 .
sounds like a alot of FUN doesnt it.
i donno how i missed this big picture...

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ianmc38

Thanks bro.