UK to Restrict number of Bulgarians and Romainas

irishlordknight

Britain is closing its open door route for migrants from the new Eastern European countries, Romaina and Bulgaria.

Plans to be anounced later today.

This raises some questions that effects us.

1, should Ireland follow suit and restrict the workers also?

2, By restricting these workers are we admiting that there is a problem?

3, What does this say about the EU? Free workers rights being restricted? Dosent this make a mockery of the point of the EU.

4, How will these two new countries react?

The Sky news reporter has just also pointed out that most of the workforce form these countries are low skillled, and because Britain cant restrict the right of free movement most of these workers will slip under the next and work for cash in hand on the black market.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13548482,00.html

gandalf

And your opinion on this is what?

irishlordknight

gandalf wrote:

And your opinion on this is what?

Its hard to say.

I dont think any EU country should restrict working rights to the other Eu states.

But when all the others seem to close up shop then maybe Ireland should think about this also. Hence my question on this.

But the fundamental thing is how does this really effect the balance of the EU.

I honestly feel this is the start of a two tier system, where if your Irish, British, French etc you can work and live anywhere in the EU. But if you happen to be a Romanian you can live where you like but you cant support yourself by working there.

And as the Sky reporter has already stated this will force lots more people into black market jobs which does nothing for anyone.

irishlordknight

John Reid has gone ahead withthere restrictions

He states

Mr Reid announced that food processing and agriculture will be the only sectors initially opened to "less skilled" nationals from Bulgaria and Romania.

"Employers will need to convince the Government there is a genuine labour shortage and such schemes would be limited by quota," he added.

Students from the two countries looking for work would be entitled only to part-time jobs.

Is this not discrimination? Considering the UK allowed in Poland etc how then can they refuse Bulgaria and Romaina?

Does anyone here think that Ireland will follow suit with the same conditions as Britain?

I for one think we will. We alway seem to have the same foreign policy to europe as the UK.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13548482,00.html

irishlordknight

irishlordknight wrote:

Is this not discrimination? Considering the UK allowed in Poland etc how then can they refuse Bulgaria and Romaina?

Nope its not discrimination as such,Bulgaria and Romania would have agreed to our right to a staggered fullemployment rights policy when concluding their accession negotiations.

Does anyone here think that Ireland will follow suit with the same conditions as Britain?

Of course,we've a plentifull and eager labour source from Poland the the Baltic states as it is.
And they already have
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1024/eu.html

Eventually it will be completely open borders as regards labour though.You and I have the right to work anywhere in the E.U as it is (though I'm not sure about Bulgaria and Romania).

But if you happen to be a Romanian you can live where you like but you cant support yourself by working there.

Well they can work here if they get a work permit.They'd be both foolish and mad to come to live here without one.

Stark

Bulgaria are going to reply in kind apparently. Irish and British people won't be allowed work in Bulgaria without a permit.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/10/24/story282326.html

Hobbes

At the end of the day its all swings and roundabouts.

You don't get the people to fill the crappy jobs for cheap so you end up having to pay more to get locals to work the jobs which in turn means you have to up your costs to offset wages.

It would get to a point where it would be easier to just outsource to Romania / Bulgaria, thus UK jobs being lost without even people entering the country.

ballooba

Ireland has actually already siad that it is gong to restrict Bulgarian and Romanian workers coming here.

I have met a few people from each country over the years. There's a really sound bloke works in Marios in Ranelagh who's from Romania. He seems well educated but his qualifications are probably worthless here.

I used to sail with two guys from Bulgaria we met through a contact in Irish Rail. They were engineers and I think they would have got it hard to get there qualifications recognised only Irish Rail were delighted to have them.

Most of the people I have met from those countries seem like respectable hard working souls. It's a pity people seem to automatically think of Romany Gypsies when they here Romania.

The Corinthian

irishlordknight wrote:

I dont think any EU country should restrict working rights to the other Eu states.

In theory no, however, in practice one must consider shocks to the system. If you tear down all the controls between two economies where one is far better developed than the other then you get exactly that; high levels of migration, a flood of cheap goods from the less developed to the more mature economy, etc. Of course this can be a good thing for the former, but it can also result in a ‘brain drain’ of those few skilled workers that are especially needed at such a point in the economic cycle. The same goes for the mature economy; it gets the cheap labour it needs, but also comes with its own problems.

In short, unmanaged economic shocks to the system are bad. You don’t really need a degree in economics to figure out that one. And all that is happening at present is that it is being managed; with restrictions in place to limit said shock, money invested to bring the new economies up to speed and then the restrictions will be relaxed and finally removed.

I can certainly understand that it may be insulting to both Bulgarians and Romanians, but that’s all it is and neither is it meant to be anything other than a transitional measure.

Unfortunately for them their economies are nowhere near the same level as the rest of the EU where GDP (p. capita) is 300% theirs (even the lowest, Poland, is still around 40% higher). Arguably they should have been held to develop further before admission so that we could avoid such a transitional period, but they were not, so this is where we are now.

Hobbes wrote:

It would get to a point where it would be easier to just outsource to Romania / Bulgaria, thus UK jobs being lost without even people entering the country.

Actually, very few ‘crappy’ jobs can be outsourced.

mike65

True, not easy to clean the bogs from 2000 miles away.

The work permit system has merit but as one can enter a country as a 'tourist' then enter the black economy its far from perfect. Australia can make great use of it only cos of its geographic location and being an island.

irishlordknight, the reason we and the UK have the same polciy is due to the "common travel area" agreement.

Mike.

Hobbes

The Corinthian wrote:

Actually, very few ‘crappy’ jobs can be outsourced.

It's a circle of life really. People can work the crappy jobs because it is cheap for employers to spend on them.

What would happen if say cleaners wages had to be doubled because they couldn't get people to fill the jobs at the current price. Money works it way through the system.

When it gets to a point where it is more cost effective to move a job it will happen. The employees wages is just one of aspects of this.

I'm not too sure how fair it is to open up capital but not labour markets.

The Corinthian

Hobbes wrote:

It's a circle of life really. People can work the crappy jobs because it is cheap for employers to spend on them.

What would happen if say cleaners wages had to be doubled because they couldn't get people to fill the jobs at the current price. Money works it way through the system.

When it gets to a point where it is more cost effective to move a job it will happen. The employees wages is just one of aspects of this.

Thank you for sharing while completely missing the point of what was said to you.