Turn-based RPGs

Balfa

Ehh, I feel I should have asked this a long time ago... I never feel like there's any strategy to the battles. Sure, they give you items to remove status ailments and spells to increase your attack strength... Sure there are creatures that are weaker towards certain elements than others... but I always find myself sticking to straightforward physical attacks and plain old damaging spells (along with healing spells and items, of course).

I have fun in the sense that it's satisfying to defeat enemies and gain experience, but I'm yearning for more fun...

Am I missing some incredibly fun and detailed facet of these turn-based RPGs? I know each game is different, but what advice would you give me to help me get more enjoyment out of the battle mechanics of these sort of games?

edit: also, what RPG would you guys recommend as the best purely in terms of battle mechanics (ignoring story, characters, etc.).

Hercule

I thoroughly enjoyed the "Age of Wonders" series of games which to me feature the best turn-based combat in any game i have played. Its a mix of RTS and RPG where u level up heroes' stats but also build regular units in cities etc. that fight alongside each other in battles which i think supports 40 units on screen (in the first one anyway) that all get a seperate turn. More fun for a skirmish on a custom map then playing the single player game tho.

Note: the age of wonders series of games are hard to find but the original is one of the "budget" collection

Cravez

You could try the fallout series? GAME have all the games in one in their 2 for 25 euro deal.

Retr0gamer

Haven't played Grandia have you. That had one of the best battle systems around. Pulling off the perfect round and not getting hit was very satisfying.

There's also FFX which was very tactical. Different characters had to be used in the right places and status bonus spells were very useful in boss fights unlike other games were they just get ignored. The only problem was that if you were a boring twat and decided to level up your characters it was easy to blitz through.

I really like the strategy RPG games. Nothing beats Fire Emblem and the shining force games are simple but fun.

Then there is Dragon Quest. It's basically the same system that the old FF games used but because the enemies you encounter are so well designed that it's always challenging to finish them off.

It's when RPG's go realtime that I find the battle systems suffer. The ATB gauge introduced in FFIV until FFIX was awful. All you did was keep attacking. The bosses just meant using the bigger spells and healing once in a while.

FFXII is completely realtime and the battle system is an utter disgrace. It just involves watching your guys attack and throwing in the odd spell or cure when needed.

Fo me I'd rate Grandia 1 + 2 as having the best battle mechanics followed by FFX if you don't bother levelling up since it's more of a challenge. Dragon Quest would rank quite high as well as would Xenogears (funnily enough it's an ATB battle system).

However Fire Emblem beats them all. It's like Advance wars but with levelling up and excellent stories in each game.

Usually I find that a decent story or fairly easy battle system can cancel out the fact that it's bad. Suikoden 1 + 2 are very simple but battles are over very quickly, there is no point in levelling up and there are no load times. FFVII is another case. Awful battle system but it wsa very easy to learn and really just let you get on with enjoying the storyline.

Niall - Dahlia

I'm the same Balfa, in turn based RPGs I find myself just constantly tapping the confirm button to do the plain old physical attack...why bother with other stuff when it's not as powerful and takes longer to execute!

I'm playing Dragon Quest 8 at the moment and to be honest it's the same, although I'm only 20 hours or so into it, so I can't judge.

Balfa

Retr0gamer wrote:

However Fire Emblem beats them all.

Dude, have you not read any of my posts on boards? I'm Fire Emblem's biggest fan!
Since you folks suggest the the shining series (one i've been intending on looking into for a while anyway) and age of wonders are similar to fire emblem, I'll have to check them out.

I'll look into Grandia. We have FFX but I've only played about 20 minutes of it. I'm not futuristic settings (especially those set against a backdrop of a crap sport) and heroes with voices piss me off, but maybe I'll give it another try.

steviec

One problem I find in Final Fantasy especially, is that there's so many options in terms of status effects etc. but they're pointless against easy enemies you can dispose of swiftly anyway. And then you get to bosses and they're just immune to everything, so it seems half your repetoire is just pointless.

Am playing Suikoden V at the mo and enjoying the battle system in it. It's not particularly tough but there are just a huge number of options, particularly when it comes to setting up your party. The difference between magic users and weapon users and heavily armoured and fast people is absolutely huge so you really have to think about how to structure the team and who to equip with what, and there are a ton of choices here. Once you get your set up right the battles themselves can be a little trivial but I still enjoy it.

Retr0gamer

You really need to give FFX a lot more time. It is for me the best RPG of this generation other than the Fire Emblem games. The sport takes a back seat in the game and is optional and if you get over tidus' annoying voice the story and character are fantastic. It also has a great ending.

Have to agree with steviec about the status effects in FF being useless. However in FFX they are really useful. Wakka is invalualble, his status effects skills have a huge effect on battles, particulalry blind, and shell and protect are also essential for boss battles (never would have gotten off Mt. Gagazet without them, that boss was tough!).

Also agree with what you said about the more options being open the more fun the battle system is. FFXII is basically the same battle system as KotoR but KotoR pulls it off a lot better even if it's far from perfect. There is way more variety such as using risk moves or throwing a grenade before battle. Two other examples are Dragon Quest VIII and Baten Kaitos. They are quite simple to begin with but as new skills open up the battle system gets a whole lot more interesting.

projectmayhem

the problem i have is that they look pretty, and probably have the best games writers in the business behind them, but i hate sitting there waiting to do something. i love counter-strike and what-not.

there's a lot of tactics involved so it's not mindless shooting at crap, but there's so much action to keep my attention, and keep me entertained. this is exactly what's missing from final fantasy for me (i'm using FF because i don't know the genre at all).

...i didn't even like FF7, granted i didn't play it for long... but that's because it bored me

Retr0gamer

RPGs are more like a good book than an action film. Counterstrike and FF aren't really compareable

projectmayhem

Retr0gamer wrote:

RPGs are more like a good book than an action film. Counterstrike and FF aren't really compareable

that's quite a good analogy actually. good work retr0

...except i do read books!

Retr0gamer

Didn't mean it that way. Was trying to say that they really aren't comparable so it's understandable that you don't like RPGs.

Like the Suikoden 2 quote balfa

BlitzKrieg

shning force 1 and 2 are among the best RPGS I have ever played (and I'm getting into Fire Emblem)

though the lack of exploration between battles is a small disapointment (though Ilike the deeper strategy in securing points in fire emblem, and the fact you could lose characters for good.

The one thing that p*sses me off about turn based RPGS is not the turn based battles but the random ones. I was really really enjoying FF6 until BOOM! I get to that town where you constantly get jumped by random battles, never went back, couldnt stomach them. Which is a pity because I was really striving to continue the plot, it was just too unbearable. Its prob why I like games like Shining force, cause each battle is designed to be a challange and you are given peace to soak in the story between them.

User45701

PLAY
Star WArs KNights Of The Old Republic
and
Star WArs Knights Of THe Old REpublic II The Sith Lords

Retr0gamer

I put 25 hours in to KotoR and while the story was interesting I just found it really boring. Too much pointless dialogue and a terrible battle system.

super_furry

KoToR was absolutely brilliant, KoToR2 would have been brilliant if they had finished the game.

koneko

Yeah KoToR2 really needed some more work, but Bioware didn't make it (Obsidian did), which is unfortunate. I loved the first one.

Pugsley

My votes definately go to Shining Force 1 and 2, best of the genre imo, Ive been meaning to get to play the rest of them, but only manage to get one of the mega-CD ones, which was just a series of battles, little to no story, and no charecter development in it, actually got bored and gave up before finishing it, first two are spectacular though. Worthy mention to Fire Emblem, excellent game, although I found it to be very very easy at times, but the permanent death kept you on your toes at all times, Fire Emblem was also a series of battles with cut scenes in between, but there was enough in the cut scene's to keep you interested to a degree in the story.

As for purely the combat system, Grandia got it perfect, its a mix of RTS and turn based RPG, having to position your men, and being able to intercept and counter attacks really added a lot of fun to the fighting, rest of the game was pretty damn good too, decent story and charecters. KotOR was also pretty good, not spectacular but worth playing, the second one was pants though, I got bored pretty early on when I realised it was a shoddy, and buggy, attempt to recreate the first one.

BlitzKrieg

Shing force 3 is such an epic that I cry myself to sleep when I know that its left to Sega (who has since butchered the shining force series) to actually release the full game outside Japan.

Over here we only got a 3rd of the game, it stretched 3 parts and in part 2 you play the opposite side your country is at war with in the first (which is just an amazing idea)

The Saturn had 2 of the greatest RPGS of all on it (the above) and Panzer Dragoon Saga. I still regret not buying Saga when I had the chance so many years ago, to have a full copy legally will put me back a meaty £100 roughly.

(cue retrogamer rubbing salt on my wounds when he comes in...)

Retr0gamer

Ah Panzer Dragoon Saga. finally got an original copy although it's unboxed. Shning force 3 is great have to play it a bit more when I'm finished Wachenrodder (another great SRPG, japanese only but fully translated faq available). Shining Force 3 part 2 is fully translated and part 3 is 70% translated but translated enough so that the story is quite easy to follow.

Jimboo_Jones

Retr0gamer wrote:

Like the Suikoden 2 quote balfa

I'm still in love with Suikoden 1 and 2 ... I may have to dig them out (again) and renew that feeling