server set up

melekalikimaka

after a recent system wipe i've decided to set up a server for my files on an old p450 pc. I plant to stick a small(1.7 gig hd into it and a 250 gig drive for the files, any reccommendations for what package i should use, how to set it up etc. one question ntfs can't be read under linux, true...or written at least? what format can i use so i can store files over 4 gig and still be able to read write them under windows and linux?

aidan_walsh

If you're using Linux for the server, you'll want to install Samba on it. Samba acts as a go between, so whether the filesystem will be readable or not on either platform becomes pretty much irrelevant. It can be a bit tricky to set up properly though (I know, I'm fighting with it at the moment).

melekalikimaka

so what exactly is samba, is it a version of linux that has the ability to read and write ntfs?

aidan_walsh

Samba is a program that runs as a service on Linux.

You don't need to worry about Windows filesystems, so stop now What Samba does is allow you to set up directories on your Linux box that look, act and feel just like a shared directory on a Windows box does. You can map them to drives in My Computer, access them using \\COMP_NAME\SHARE_NAME just like on Windows, etc. Its a lot more than this as well, but right now thats all you need to know about it for filesharing.

Any distribution of Linux will allow you to set up Samba on it, most will come with a version of it on the install disks. You can get more information about it here, and installing it here.

melekalikimaka

excellent. second question. a version of linux with a decent gui that can run samba and fit on a 1.7 gig hd?

SouperComputer

melekalikimaka wrote:

excellent. second question. a version of linux with a decent gui that can run samba and fit on a 1.7 gig hd?

Grab ubuntu server, then install SAMBA. Takes up about 300Mb IIRC. If you really need a GUI, you can install KDE or GNOME. If its a server though, on such low spec id avoid KDE and GNOME personally. Fluxbox is what I would reccomend as it is lightweight, best plan is to go without a GUI though for maximum hardcore experience.

Also you have clarkconnect. Ive used it on old hardware many times with great success. It contains all the software you need and LOADS more (firewall, snort intursion detection, VPN, DNS, apache, mysql etc) and comes with a web interface for configuration.....

http://www.clarkconnect.com/downloads/

You want the community version.

Also, keep in mind that if you get a modern IDE\SATA PCI card, you can run modern drives in that machine (the 250GB may have problems being addressed by teh controller and BIOS onboard the board).

Ive had PII 400's serving just under a TB without any issues. Just be sure that your chosen controller has support for linux.

lastly, trash the 1.7GB and spend you money on even 20GB HD in it for the OS. The 1.7 will die as soon as you put any sort of a mild load on it. If you cant get anotehr drive, just throw the OS on the 250GB. Its not ideal but it will be 400% better, especially if you end up running Apache or MySQL at some stage.

Capt'n Midnight

NTFS can be read by linux. Ubuntu and Knoppix desktops do this. I'm not sure if Ubuntu server does as well.
There are ways to write to NTFS but not 100% reliable - mostly due to the hidden specifications. That is, the Linux NTFS driver can safely write to a file if it already exists, but cannot safely create or resize a file.

I have not tried this, but just to show that there are drivers for windows for many opensource file systems. http://www.fs-driver.org/

Not sure if puppylinux can act as a server without much setup. - but it only takes up 66MB so can fit on a flash card on IDE

ethernet

The latest version of Knoppix claims to be able to write to NTFS partitions out of the box.

Also check out this project: http://www.linux-ntfs.org

As Capt'n Midnight mentioned, the FS driver is also worth considering. I was using it under XP a few weeks ago. One problem with it is that file permissions aren't maintained. It wouldn't do on a multi-user Linux PC ...

If desperate, stick with FAT32.

melekalikimaka

i can't use fat32, i know i'll have files over 4 gig. I'm thinking maybe win2000 is my best bet for that reason, I'll try unbuntu server/puppy/dsl first just to see how samba might work out

niallb

Linux will have no problem with files over 4G.
Windows problems are irrelevant as windows won't be on the server.
You want to stick a linux distribution on your 1.7G drive,
so when will windows ever be looking at the 250G drive as a local drive.
Once it's on the network it doesn't matter.
samba, win2k, win2k3, XP all look the same.

Use Win2000 if you're more comfortable with it - but that's your only valid reason.
Linux with samba will give you better performance on the same hardware.

I'd agree with soupercomputer on trashing the 1.7G drive.
It's plenty big enough, but using 1G or less of your 250G drive will
give better performance and not tie your server to a relic drive
that will drop dead soon.

Check and see will your 250G drive run OK on the P450 motherboard.
It certainly won't run as fast as it would on a more modern board.

NiallB

melekalikimaka

ah so it isnt the file system that has the problem its the os?

I got a 6.7 gig drive just there. finding a drive under 80 gig is next to impossible these days . I'm lookinking at clarkconnect, needs alot more ram, so i'm thinking dsl and adding samba from there. the pc is a dell gx1, it has no issues with LBA48 from what i gather, my main issue now is what distro with a gui i can run with 64mb ram

Snowbat

NTFS support is only an issue if you are trying to access an NTFS partition on a drive *directly* connected to the Linux box. Over the network it is not an issue - the SMB/CIFS protocol acts as the middleman.

Why do you want a GUI? Webmin comes with most distros and will do everything you might need to do on a server.

Nietzschean

the ntfs support (read only) is built into the linux kernel so is available under any distro, well unless their default kernels don't come with it compiled in, but then you can just compile your own.

I'd avoid anything that tries to write to an ntfs parititon under linux like the plague, the captive fs drivers can do it slowly.

But really for your setup NTFS support is irrelevent,
1.5 gig drive is fine, just whack on debian or something, format the 250gig one with ext3 , apt-get install -y samba webmin-samba webmin
and boom web interface to server and it can configure samba (webmin module for samba). you can config the workgroup stuff under samba so browsing the network is easier too though \\<ipaddress>\sharename is fine too

ethernet

Snowbat wrote:

NTFS support is only an issue if you are trying to access an NTFS partition on a drive *directly* connected to the Linux box. Over the network it is not an issue - the SMB/CIFS protocol acts as the middleman.

Why do you want a GUI? Webmin comes with most distros and will do everything you might need to do on a server.

Every time I try to download Webmin, I only ever get a corrupt archive file. What's going on? I've tried using a few mirrors now.

Long live Samba. Is there an official config tool for it?

niallb

ethernet wrote:

Long live Samba. Is there an official config tool for it?

SWAT.
is the closest to an official control panel for it. (Vim is more popular though!)

Search for swat using your package manager, and install it.
The webmin samba module works just as well.
When you say you get a corrupt archive file, do you
mean for all of webmin, or just a samba module?

NiallB

SouperComputer

melekalikimaka wrote:

ah so it isnt the file system that has the problem its the os?

I got a 6.7 gig drive just there. finding a drive under 80 gig is next to impossible these days . I'm lookinking at clarkconnect, needs alot more ram, so i'm thinking dsl and adding samba from there. the pc is a dell gx1, it has no issues with LBA48 from what i gather, my main issue now is what distro with a gui i can run with 64mb ram

Forget about the separate OS drive for the sake of simplicity.

Clarkconnect does not need a lot more RAM unless you run a rake of services. All you need really is the firewall, SAMBA and Webmin.

Its not really the distro thats the problem with low ram, its the window manager. You want to run somthing lightweight such as XFCE, ratpoison or fluxbox (my fave).

Again though, ill reiterate the point that you should avoid a GUI on the machine itself.

64Mb is on the low side even for DSL running as a server, pickup a stick of 128Mb PC100 on adverts and it will make a world of difference. You will also want to get and IDE\SATA card. The GX1 uses the 440BX chipset which is great, and stable but theres not a hope in hell of running that drive on it reliably.

Filesystem wise, you should format as follows:

2Gb / (Root, ie operating system, Linxu equiv to c:\)
256mb (Swap)
Rest /mnt/network

You will be using a linux filesystem on the fileserver (EXT3 is a good way to go, unless you have a lot of large files (around or above 1GB) use XFS for the network drive)

The windows machines will connnect to the drives as others have said using the SMB protocol. Its OS-independant so the filesystem on the server does not matter. FAT32 is old school and does not like to be mistreated so avoid on any server at all costs. NTFS for linux, is a long way from where it was, but its still nowhere as good as using native linux filesystems.

If you want a really cut down OS, you could try ubuntu server. After your base installation do this:

apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
apt-get install SAMBA
apt-get install xserver-xorg xinit xvattr 
apt-get install fluxbox xterm

The above will install update available packages, install SAMBA, Xserver and the ultra-lightweight windowmanager fluxbox

To make X startable by all users:

dpkg-reconfigure x11-common

That will get you started with a lightweight SAMBA server. NEVER start X as root!

To add the web-based SAMBA configuration tool SWAT:

apt-get install swat

melekalikimaka

wow, thats brilliant, thanks a million, i'll give it a shot thanks

ethernet

niallb wrote:

SWAT.
is the closest to an official control panel for it. (Vim is more popular though!)

Search for swat using your package manager, and install it.
The webmin samba module works just as well.
When you say you get a corrupt archive file, do you
mean for all of webmin, or just a samba module?

NiallB

I'll give SWAT a go. That's right -- I always get a corrupt archive file when I download Webmin. Have tried several times.

I'll recommend ext3 to anyone. Being a journalised FS, it is a blessing.

I agree with SouperComputer -- use fluxbox or another light-weight. Gnome and KDE just swallow RAM [just try running Ubuntu on an 800 MHz PC with 192 MB RAM using Gnome ... painful].

On the Samba and Windows note again, I like Tweakhound's tutorials:
1. http://www.tweakhound.com/linux/suse/101/installing_1.htm
2. http://www.tweakhound.com/linux/samba/page_1.htm