"Unlimited Free Vodafone to Vodafone Calls for Life"?

irishproduce

**Cough**I thought comreg were known for doing what they are told by major corporates **cough**

Cant see much happening here guys. I would think its a non runner.


Anyway as someone said earlier, what grounds could vodafone insist the thread be removed??

krpc

I agree, on the matter of Vodafone having the thread removed on the threat of legal action, I don't think much could be done. It would be a matter for boards to decide whether or not to give into such a scare tactic and pressure.

However, on the matter of Vodafone falsely advertising, in particular relating to the "Unlimited Free Vodafone to Vodafone Free Calls For Life", I think quite a lot can be done. This weekend, I decided to get some practical evidence regarding this whole deal. I went into a Vodafone store in the city centre in Dublin and asked the sales representative a series of questions relating to this offer.

These questions included, is the "Unlimited Free Vodafone to Vodafone Calls For Life" as the name suggests, unlimited? The sales rep said it was. I asked if there was a cap, fair use policy or anything else governing this offer, they said there was not, and that it was completely unlimited. I further asked the sales representative to write this down for me, timestamp it, and sign it. They asked me why I wanted this. I stated that I was making a complaint to ComReg and the ASAI about Vodafone falsely advertising customers in order to entrap people into contracts and I required proof of this. I then informed her that the offer wasn't unlimited that there was a 4000 minute cap on this offer, and there was also a 5GB on the "Unlimited Data Bundle" offered by Vodafone. The sales representative clearly stated "no one ever told us of this".

The sales representative obliged and documented what she had told me. I now have written evidence in which to approach ComReg, the ASAI and even the media. This also illustrates that this falsely advertised offer is not just restricted to those on the customer care (1907) giving out misleading information, but is completely and utterly across the board.

Pythia

vodafone wrote:

8. Vodafone operates a Fair Usage Policy. It is important to Vodafone that all eligible Vodafone customers are able to access our services. Accordingly, we have devised a fair use policy which applies to Free Vodafone Calls Add On. ...

http://www.vodafone.ie/terms/paymonthly/index.jsp#freevftovf

Surely this covers them?
It's the same with all mobile operators. They all operate a fair usage policy.

krpc

Yes, that is what is in contestation.

How can something be offered as "unlimited" but have a limit in place through the existence of a fair use policy. I believe the point ComReg and the ASAI are now contesting with Vodafone is what exactly is "fair use" seeing as they don't have a concrete cap set. For example, one customer might assume 4,000 minutes to be fair use, while another may believe 4,000,000 to be. Vodafone have said that 4,000 minutes is fair use but they do not say this in any of their terms and conditions or contracts. It is rather set "internally". So how is a customer to know EXACTLY what they are signing up for when Vodafone do not make this information accessible. Hence, they are falsely advertising it as "unlimited" in order to entice customers to sign up to 12 month contracts. 4,000 minutes is FAR from being close to unlimited and a lot of business customers would easily exceed this limitation.

Rsaeire

I find it completely and utterly irresponsible for any company to act in this manner. Some might think that as a company, as large as it is, they can act almost outside the law as they seem untouchable, whereas some people, expect that as such a large company they have a responsibility to uphold the good nature they promise to promote through their products and services, advertising etc. People make do with companies acting in whatever fashion they want and don't bother challenging them because "it's pointless" and their attitude is that of a pessimist in the sense of "what can I do." Vodafone have already let it be known they're watching these threads and that they don't like what is being said as it is the truth.

irishproduce

This thread gets mnore interesting each day.
Go for it Telefunk. . . making us believe its completely unlimited :mad:

Urban Weigl

As long as the service is being used within the spectrum of the offer, e.g. you're not using the offer in a phone shop or another telco using it to route calls to Vodafone's network, or you're not using it for data or telemetry, there is NO EXCUSE for Vodafone to cut people offer. Doesn't matter if it's 4000 minutes or 8000 minutes.

I cannot believe Vodafone would do such a thing, but it looks like I've been proven wrong. While I haven't been hit with this, as a Vodafone customer, I am disappointed in them at such underhand tactics.

If they are going to put a 4000 minute limit in place, even when the service is being used as advertised, they should say so and not use the word "unlimited" to advertise it.

By the way, 4000 minutes is only 2 hours of phone calls a day. That is not that much! Nowhere near unlimited.

krpc

Urban_Weigl, have I told you how much I love you? hahaha

Seriously, so many times I have just wanted to scream "IT IS <EXPLETIVE> UNLIMITED!!!" If Vodafone offer it as unlimited, then Vodafone should provide the service without a limit. Fair use and caps can go to hell. Simply put, if it's not unlimited, DO NOT ADVERTISE IT AS UNLIMITED!!

Also, in this particular case, there was no routing of calls or illegal, inappropriate activities going on. It was simply a matter of one real, human person dialling a number (another Vodafone number) and actually talking to another real, human person. The person went over the hidden 4,000 minute cap and the contract was terminated. Not only did Vodafone terminate the contract and thus breach the terms of the agreement but now Vodafone are looking for termination charges from the customer in question! haha What a joke.

I have to admit it has been quite infuriating dealing with Vodafone, but more so those that believe that if a fair use policy is in place, anything is acceptable and nothing can be done. Things like that are only acceptable if the public allow it to be.

I am also quite appalled that Vodafone have sent boards.ie a solicitor's letter about a previous thread on a similar "unlimited" debacle in which to silence those that have not only been victimized by Vodafone but have also exposed the underhanded, sly nature of the beast. Vodafone must see it as bad publicity and / or false advertising of their services. Ironic, eh?

I'm also a bit disappointed in boards.ie removing the thread based on this "threat" (i.e. solicitor's letter from Vodafone). Out of curiousity, do boards.ie remove all threads when a solicitor's letter is received? What if I have my solicitor send one on any other thread that I happen to just dislike, even though what was expressed was the complete and utter truth of the matter? Just curious, of course.

failsafe

I'd be interested to see if anyone else besides the one friend got affected by this. 2 hours every single day is quite a fair amount, that's being on the phone for a solid 2.5 days in a month! A few of the girls I know would probably come close to that but none of them have been disconnected or anything (although i don't know if they'd ever use >4000mins)

As for the other thread, Boards do offer unlimited free speech (but a fair usage policy applies! )

krpc

As for the other thread, Boards do offer unlimited free speech (but a fair usage policy applies! )

I hate you <cries>

failsafe

If I was one of the admins I would, it's just not worth the hassle for something that'll be forgotten about in a weeks time

krpc

It's quite a shame if that is the reason. This would mean that any user of boards.ie could simply approach a solicitor and get them to send a letter about a particular thread. Solicitors often send the letter free of charge too. Quite a shame.

It kinda makes certain aspects of boards.ie defunct as user's can't really voice opinions or get involved in discussions that might not be complimentary to one of the networks in Ireland for fear of legal action being threatened.

This is my shame face ---->

lol

irishproduce

Let us know how everything goes anyway, I will be watching this thread

krpc

irishproduce wrote:

Let us know how everything goes anyway, I will be watching this thread

... and that doesn't make you sound like "Big Brother" at all!!! lol

I'll keep the thread updated as to the latest ongoings and wheeling and dealings of Vodafone! Vodafone make Derek Trotter (Delboy) look like a reputable salesman!! haha

krpc

It is update time.

http://www.vodafone.ie/terms/paymonthly/index.jsp#vftovffairuse

It appears Vodafone have added more detailed fair use policies to govern the "Unlimited Free Vodafone to Vodafone Calls for Life Offer".

It is quite interesting.

In a recent e-mail I have seen regarding this issue Vodafone cited that fair use on this offer had an internal restriction of 4,000 minutes (i.e. they were not informing customers of this at all and subsequently misleading customers to believe the offer actually was "unlimited").

Now, two weeks later, Vodafone have adjusted this to 10,000 minutes and are now stating that this is not a restriction nor a cap but rather a threshold in which to encourage fair use. However further down the diatribe, it is stated that if someone consistently exceeds this Vodafone can excercise the right to charge for the excess of 10,000 minutes, withdraw or terminate the service. Therefore this IS a cap considering a customer has ALREADY been terminated for exceeding the previous "threshold" as it has so been termed!

I fired an e-mail off to Vodafone to inquire what their definition of "consistently exceeds" is considering they state they would only take action against a customer if their usage consistently exceeded this "threshold". The person I know that had their account terminated had it terminated after receiving one notice to alter usage. Is one month considered as "consistently exceeding"?

Vodafone are a complete sham. Absolutely ridiculous.

ns06

This whole ordeal just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. How they think they can get away with this is beyond me! I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before a decision is made on this whole matter and then we can all hopefully have some closure.

krpc

telefunktastik wrote:

It is update time.

http://www.vodafone.ie/terms/paymonthly/index.jsp#vftovffairuse

It appears Vodafone have added more detailed fair use policies to govern the "Unlimited Free Vodafone to Vodafone Calls for Life Offer".

It is quite interesting.

In a recent e-mail I have seen regarding this issue Vodafone cited that fair use on this offer had an internal restriction of 4,000 minutes (i.e. they were not informing customers of this at all and subsequently misleading customers to believe the offer actually was "unlimited").

Now, two weeks later, Vodafone have adjusted this to 10,000 minutes and are now stating that this is not a restriction nor a cap but rather a threshold in which to encourage fair use. However further down the diatribe, it is stated that if someone consistently exceeds this Vodafone can excercise the right to charge for the excess of 10,000 minutes, withdraw or terminate the service. Therefore this IS a cap considering a customer has ALREADY been terminated for exceeding the previous "threshold" as it has so been termed!

I fired an e-mail off to Vodafone to inquire what their definition of "consistently exceeds" is considering they state they would only take action against a customer if their usage consistently exceeded this "threshold". The person I know that had their account terminated had it terminated after receiving one notice to alter usage. Is one month considered as "consistently exceeding"?

Vodafone are a complete sham. Absolutely ridiculous.

That's Vodafone for you.

In response to the e-mail I sent them, they e-mailed me back, cutting and pasting the terms and conditions on the website. Cheeky sw*ines.

In addition they said "consistently exceeding" is over ANY month (i.e 1 month). Since when is consistent determined as over one billing month. They seriously are using a different dictionary than like.. the rest of the English speaking world.

event

i can see people's point with this

but it does say terms and conditions apply
as in, it is unlimited but there are terms and conditions.
to me, that means that you should read the terms and conditions, as there will be situations where it isnt unlimited.

i know people will disagree with me but thats the way i see it

buddy

Anyone that spends that amount of time on a mobile phone really should consider getting a life. Get out, get some air, meet people in person!!!

4000 = 133 mins day based on a 30 day month.
10000 = 333 mins a day based on a 30 day month.

Firstly - Vodafone are giving FREE minutes - if the people that themselves or know people who yap that long then those people had very expensive bills before the offer.

4000 minutes from VF to VF at the cheapest rate - e.g. RTG 15c per min off peak = 600 euro!!!! AND THATS AT THE CHEAPEST RATE - 600 euro's worth of calls for nothing!

10000 = 1500 euro - WOULD YE ALL PLEASE GET A LIFE AND WORRY ABOUT IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE SUCH AS CURING CANCER!

irishproduce

buddy wrote:

Anyone that spends that amount of time on a mobile phone really should consider getting a life. Get out, get some air, meet people in person!!!

4000 = 133 mins day based on a 30 day month.
10000 = 333 mins a day based on a 30 day month.

Firstly - Vodafone are giving FREE minutes - if the people that themselves or know people who yap that long then those people had very expensive bills before the offer.

4000 minutes from VF to VF at the cheapest rate - e.g. RTG 15c per min off peak = 600 euro!!!! AND THATS AT THE CHEAPEST RATE - 600 euro's worth of calls for nothing!

10000 = 1500 euro - WOULD YE ALL PLEASE GET A LIFE AND WORRY ABOUT IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE SUCH AS CURING CANCER!

Just so you are aware buddy, from someone working in the mobile communications industry, no operator would allow one individual customer (Be they business or consumer) to spend that amount of money on mobile phone calls.
You can take it from me, with the market the way it is now and so much competition, there would be serious concessions for a user who used this amount of minutes or data access.
If a user was to spend that amount on a prepaid RTG account, they would be pushed every month to move to business, unless of course they were using an unregistered number for other reasons
Cheer up guys and stop arguing, it wont make a difference what ye say here

Pythia

Reopened, but behave yourselves.

ns06

The ASAI completed their investigation of this situation one week ago. The results were that whilst Vodafone could advertise something termed as Unlimited it must have the appropriate fair use policies and terms and conditions. In this case it was found that details concerning these offers breached advertising standards as there was a concern about the lack of information available corresponding to the fair use policies and the terms and conditions.

ns06

ComReg completed their investigation of the situation one week ago. The result was that Vodafone breached tariff transparency regulations.

ns06

Vodafone cleared all balances on accounts were there were outstanding charges based on their breach of transparency regulations.

ns06

Hi all

I'd just like to say a word of thanks to all those helped with words of support and encouragement in getting this resolved after 9 long months. It's much appreciated.

To all the doom sayers who think one small thing can't make a difference, or that we as public consumers should just put and shut up with what we're given about the poor services provided out there, well facts now speak for themselves.

Thanks!