€3,500 what to buy???

Bettyboop

Looking for a reliable car for a guy of 26,he said he wants a fiat bravo
but there dont seem to be many about.Or maybe its because we have only
€3,500 to spend.Anyway he doesnt want a honda civic but a last resort would be a colt.Can anybody suggest something up to a 1.4?? Really appreciate any suggestions.I personally hate Fiats:(
P.S.Golfs and Polos are out too:rolleyes:

wba88

Corsa? Ibiza? Leon? Saxo?

Bettyboop

wba88 wrote:

Corsa? Ibiza? Leon? Saxo?

Thanks never thought of them;)

Anan1

At that money, I think reliability will be as much down to the actual car you buy as to the make & model. If reliability is the main factor, i'd be looking for a well-minded car in long-term ownership and with a full service history. Don't narrow yourself down to any one or two makes, look at anything that fulfils the above criteria.

Sonnenblumen

Take a look at the Corsa, you'll get a good one perhaps 00D for € 3.5-4.0k, some have a great spec eg central locking, DVD, elec windows etc. Expect to pay more for a polo but with no extras.

Watch out for mileage most will be 50-60k + but you can be lucky and get one which had a careful but modest driver with < 30 k mls.

Great starter car, you'll pay at least 50%+ to get near a similar spec from VW.

Bettyboop

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Take a look at the Corsa, you'll get a good one perhaps 00D for € 3.5-4.0k, some have a great spec eg central locking, DVD, elec windows etc. Expect to pay more for a polo but with no extras.

Watch out for mileage most will be 50-60k + but you can be lucky and get one which had a careful but modest driver with < 30 k mls.

Great starter car, you'll pay at least 50%+ to get near a similar spec from VW.

Thanks will look at what corsas are available.

junkyard

Don't buy a 1.0 litre Corsa, they have an electric powersteering system that gives endless trouble and costs a fortune to fix and the engine isn't great either. I'd stick with something Japanese tbh.

gyppo

Fiesta with the 1.25 zetec engine is worth a look.

Sonnenblumen

junkyard wrote:

Don't buy a 1.0 litre Corsa, they have an electric powersteering system that gives endless trouble and costs a fortune to fix and the engine isn't great either. I'd stick with something Japanese tbh.

This is news, is this a once off bad experience or have you more info. General view is that Corsa's are great starter cars, not aware either of any fundamental/persistent technical problems. Jap cars are also possibly in the frame, but would tend to be more pricey like for like.

junkyard

Sonnenblumen wrote:

This is news, is this a once off bad experience or have you more info. General view is that Corsa's are great starter cars, not aware either of any fundamental/persistent technical problems. Jap cars are also possibly in the frame, but would tend to be more pricey like for like.

Its common knowledge in the motor trade, Opel were fixing the problem for years under warranty and eventually gave up.

alias no.9

Sonnenblumens knowledge shining through again. There are a number of known faults with the 1.0 engine fitted to the corsa including sticking egr valves and much more worrying, premature timing chain failure :eek:.
@ Junkyard, you might be surprised to know that this is indeed a japanese engine, sourced from suzuki!

maidhc

The Corsa is a horrible little car!

A Fiesta would be much nicer, but I think a Corolla would be the best bet. Petrols are not as sought after by the taxi men and are much more affordable.

Sonnenblumen

alias no.9 wrote:

Sonnenblumens knowledge shining through again. There are a number of known faults with the 1.0 engine fitted to the corsa including sticking egr valves and much more worrying, premature timing chain failure :eek:.
@ Junkyard, you might be surprised to know that this is indeed a japanese engine, sourced from suzuki!

Just another opinion, but tell me this Alias, you make them out to be technically flawed. I realise being an Alfa driver, you probably know more about car trouble than most but why not help propsective Corsa purchasers find out more about the technical problems you allude to?

Why are they so popular? I think its a very affordable, safe little car, cheap to run and insure, nippy but economical, high spec level for its class, is it no wonder why they are so many around?

But maybe you're smarter than most or did someone stick you once?

alias no.9

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Just another opinion, but tell me this Alias, you make them out to be technically flawed. I realise being an Alfa driver, you probably know more about car trouble than most but why not help propsective Corsa purchasers find out more about the technical problems you allude to?

Like almost any car, they have their problems. Knowing what these problems are can help you avoid bad ones. I simply don't subscribe to your black and white philosophy of all alfa's being bad and all corsas being good, I'm sure that would raise some laughs in the motor trade. I've already detailed two known weaknesses, junkyard has identified another. If you want me to be more specific as to the problems, the timing chain will make a terrible rattle, making the car sound worse than a tappety fiesta and the sticking EGR valve can cause eratic idling, flat spots and stalling.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Why are they so popular? I think its a very affordable, safe little car, cheap to run and insure, nippy but economical, high spec level for its class, is it no wonder why they are so many around?

Your description is eloquant, but applies equally to a fiat punto, what do you think of them? Why are they so popular?

Sonnenblumen wrote:

But maybe you're smarter than most or did someone stick you once?

Smarter than most? Maybe you think so, I'd certainly never claim it. What I would claim is to have done some actual research on actual problems that some popular cars have. I've done this when looking for new motors for myself and also when helping some close friends and family members look for theirs. I've never bought a lemon and neither has anyone I've helped find a car. So sunflower, can you enlighten us as to what motor you drive? I've asked you before but you've never answered.

Sonnenblumen

Alias,

I am not buying a Corsa, I'm only offering an opinion, they do not claim to be the bee's knees, but they do offer a very good package for what they cost.

If I were to condemn any make/model then it would most likely be Alfa, IMO no car consistently underperforms in terms of technical quality, resilience, and re-sale value quite like them.

I'm also aware that certain problems can be associated with certain makes/models but in the case of Corsas I am not aware of any problems that affects all Corsas?

They are very popular, and I suspect for very good reasons, I would certainly thought they outsell Puntos by a very long way. In fact sales of Fiat (and Alfas) are at all time low, lower than any other make (mainstream manufacturer) and the trend is spiralling downwards and out of market.

What car I drive is irrelevant to the topic, but that is not to say I haven't disclosed it previously, in fact on several occasions, I have mentioned what car I drive. But if you don't read well that's not my problem.

Finally, why not focus on helping the OP make an informed decision, instead of sniping at other contributors?

alias no.9

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Alias,

I am not buying a Corsa, I'm only offering an opinion, they do not claim to be the bee's knees, but they do offer a very good package for what they cost.

They're a reasonable buy but no better than a punto, which is a nicer car to drive.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

If I were to condemn any make/model then it would most likely be Alfa, IMO no car consistently underperforms in terms of technical quality, resilience, and re-sale value quite like them.

What are these technical problems? I'm well aware of what to watch out for but based on your previous contributions, you're just spouting crap.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

I'm also aware that certain problems can be associated with certain makes/models but in the case of Corsas I am not aware of any problems that affects all Corsas?

Nobody said anything about problems affecting all corsas. It's your black and white crap again. What has been pointed out are things to look out for.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

They are very popular, and I suspect for very good reasons, I would certainly thought they outsell Puntos by a very long way. In fact sales of Fiat (and Alfas) are at all time low, lower than any other make (mainstream manufacturer) and the trend is spiralling downwards and out of market.

They're back on the up again with a 15% increase in 2006 in europe, against a 2.6% decline in new car sales. As to which sells more, it goes in cycles, which ever has been updated most recently usually does better.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

What car I drive is irrelevant to the topic, but that is not to say I haven't disclosed it previously, in fact on several occasions, I have mentioned what car I drive. But if you don't read well that's not my problem.

Finally, why not focus on helping the OP make an informed decision, instead of sniping at other contributors?

I'd consider pointing out some weak points of a car that another person suggested the OP look at would be useful, help the OP avoid a lemon. As for unhelpful sniping, take a look at your previous contributions to the motors forum.

Finally, to the OP, what ever car you're looking at, with a budget of €3,500, it doesn't matter what make or model it is, buy based on the condition and history of the car you see in front of you, at the end of the day, how it's been cared for will be far more important than the make and model with respect to how good it will be. If you're not sure about checking it out yourself, ask somebody who is. The best people here can do is tell you what to look out for.

Mc-BigE

what about a nissan micra, fits your description, but they can be a bit thinny IMO.
heres a nice one:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=507097

Big Nelly

Mc-BigE wrote:

what about a nissan micra, fits your description, but they can be a bit thinny IMO.
heres a nice one:

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=507097

I would go with Micra, great car to start with and are actually quite quick for a small car. GF had one a few years ago and I hated them before that but once you get used to them they are great, she had the four door model, with alloys, sunroof etc so a few extras which made it more comfortable. Also you will have no problem reselling them because alot of young drivers will buy them and they hold there value

EWheelChair

Bettyboop wrote:

for a guy of 26

No self respecting 26 year old (straight) male would drive a nissan micra.

Big Nelly

EWheelChair wrote:

No self respecting 26 year old (straight) male would drive a nissan micra.

What a pile of cr*p. A car is a car, a Micra in this price braket is the best value for money and it will also hold it value while saving the buyer money on insurance to save up and buy his next car maybe in a better price bracket.

Apart from the Micra the only small car I would recommend is the Colt which he says he doesnt want. So what do you recommend EWheelChair?? what do you drive by the way?

TempestSabre

EWheelChair wrote:

No self respecting 26 year old (straight) male would drive a nissan micra.

Why would your knuckles drag on the ground?

zilog_jones

alias no.9 wrote:

...the timing chain will make a terrible rattle, making the car sound worse than a tappety fiesta and the sticking EGR valve can cause eratic idling, flat spots and stalling.

I second not recommending a Corsa - I have heard many (and been in a few) 1.0 litre Corsas which sound absolutely awful - much worse than my pushrod Fiesta . Can't say if they were well looked after or what, but I've been in one that sounded like (and rattled like) a tank inside.
Also, IIRC the Mk. II Corsa used the same basic chassis as the original, so I can't see ride and handling being all that great compared to others.

And I'm confused as to whether the 1.0 litre is actually a Suzuki engine - well, the Wikipedia has confused me . It says it's part of the GM Family 0 engines, however says nothing about it relating to the Suzuki G10 which is apparently their only 3-cylinder (it's what was in the Swift and Cultus anyway), and it's the G10 article that discusses the EGR valve issues.

Personally, I've had a '98 Fiesta LX 5 door since the beginning of this month (my first car). I'm quite happy with it - it's a lot more comfortable than other small cars I've been in, and doesn't look like a tin can inside (unlike a similarly aged Micra/March). I have the 1.3 Endura-E pushrod engine - the other common engine is the 1.25 litre Zetec-SE twin-cam which is more powerful and a lot more refined. The 1.3 sounds pretty rough at times (especially when cold), but it's not really that bad once you get going.

People claim the 1.25 is better in every way. However, the 1.3 has the highest torque output at much lower revs (highest at 2,500 RPM compared to 4,500 with the Zetec IIRC), so technically it should be more economical as you don't need to drive at righ revs as much (both engines are rated at like 42MPG), and people say it's less painful for city driving. And it should be cheaper to maintain as there's no timing belt/chain to worry about (well there is a chain, but as I said you don't have to worry about it ), and generally has less things to go wrong with it.

However, I hear some people have a lot of trouble with the electrics in Fiestas. I can't comment on this much, as the most exotic extras in the '98 LX spec include a rear fog lamp, a manual sunroof and a slightly less crap stereo (i.e. no central locking, no electric windows, no nothing).

TempestSabre

We had an earlier fiesta, so it probably not fair to compare, 91-92. But the electric were the worst in any car I've ever seen. I'd hope the newer and more recent models don't suffer the same. Of all the cars we've owned over the years, I have to say Micra's and we've had 3 at different times through the family have been the most reliable and least hassle. Thats comparing them against VW's and Honda, Toyotas etc. I actually find them quite nippy with 16v 1.0, nice to drive around a city etc. And thats from stepping out of a 130bhp/150bhp hatch or saloon. Nissan garages are woeful however. While you can do long journeys/commutes in a Micra, its not the ideal car for that. Very poor boot space too.

Like others I'd probably keep an open mind and choose only on condition of the actual car you are looking at. I'd try to stay with a Japanese car for reliability myself, in the same position. Though I wouldn't rule out a Ford or VW at the right price.

Mc-BigE

EWheelChair wrote:

No self respecting 26 year old (straight) male would drive a nissan micra.

you could always put big alloys on it, a big go faster strip, and a big exhaust to wake the dead!

Or you could learn to drive in a reliable, quick car and sell it in 2 or 3 years for a lot more then a corresponding corsa/punto
and then, you should be old enough to afford the insurance in the nissan skyline your dreaming about now.

ruane

You won't get a lot of car for €3,500 ,so...

Avoid small cars with BIG alloys and lexus lights. The engine, transmission and driveshafts are likely to have signifigant wear and signs of neglect/abuse.

Never buy the car with the smallest engine in the range. Go for the 1.2 over the 1.0, and the 1.6 over the 1.4. Base entry engines are underpowered (power/weight) in nearly all models available.

Whatever the age of the car, multiply the "years old" x 15,000 to get ideal average miles. (Diesels avg 20,000+) Avoid signifigantly high miles. Avoid signifigantly LOW miles even more. Unless it's backed up by a Full Service History, there just aren't any '98 cars out there with 50k on them. There are more clocked cars out there than you could possibly imagine.

Get an NCT. Get a COMPETENT mechanic to check it out BEFORE you hand over your money. Second hand car dealers are not famous for their after-sales care.

If you have the internet, research and buy in the UK - I've done this 4 times and will never buy in Ireland again. UK cars depreciate faster (they're cheaper even after paying VRT and travelling) and are better looked after, most with some service history. You're more likely to find a good deal over there. If you buy private in IE or UK you won't have a warranty anyway.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

TempestSabre

We've a '99 with 50k geniune miles on it. We've had it from new.

maidhc

TempestSabre wrote:

We've a '99 with 50k geniune miles on it. We've had it from new.

My g/f has a 96 with 50k. Her aunt had it from new, so it is genuine, and absolutely like new.

A lot of small cars do very little driving as they are owned by people who live and work in the city, or are second cars.

TempestSabre

Now that I think about it we've a '01 diesel with 50k on it aswell.

ruane

Well Done.
I thought there were no genuine low mileage cars left. I hope you still have your service log book and invoices.

BTW, even if you're timing belt hasn't reached the specified mileage interval to replace it (usually around 60K) it should still be replaced after 5 years use.

maidhc

ruane wrote:

Well Done.
I thought there were no genuine low mileage cars left. I hope you still have your service log book and invoices.

The g/fs one has a full ford service history from new. Done every 12 mths. It was also garaged, and the back seats have never been used.

The only thing is that car will never be sold. It will be handed on to another person, or sold within the family, or if I ever manage to get my hands on it put into storage until it is a classic.

ruane

Thats really great that you have some Genuine cars out there. But your cars are the exception rather than the norm.

This post is about what car someone could get for €3,500. If you're going to view a car you've just spotted in buyandsell or carzone it would be best to adopt a sceptical attitude. Don't trust the salesman, use your eyes. Look for signs of damage, evidence of repairs, loose trim, excessive wear & tear on seats & controls. Examine the outside of the car thouroughly. Examine the documents. Is there a service record. When was the last service carried out. Whens the next one due & what type of service required? Check the engine compartment before starting it up. Feel thats it's cold. Check the fluid levels. Look for signs of leaks, wet patches, discolouration, crusty or white deposits around the radiator. Be wary of the "clean" engine compartment also - it shouldn't be clean. Listen to the engine from cold with the bonnet open. Get in close and listen for any rattles, squeals, bumps, knocks. Rev it gently. Drive it. Does it smoke. Does it hesitate. Does it overheat. Do the cears change smoothly. How much clutch is left. Hows the suspension. Brakes. Tracking. Balance. Tyres. . . . . . .

Check EVERYTHING. Then check the engine compartment again when it's hot.
Buy with your head, not your heart. Dont let alloy wheels & electric windows cloud your judgement over the condition of those spongy brakes.

I've bought enough cars now to spot the "wrong" car fairly quick.