Citizen's arrest.

AnnaStezia

Is there actually any such thing as a citizen's arrest or is the concept just a piece of popular urban myth ?

If it does exist how is it done ?

How safe is it to try and effect a citizen's arrest without finding yourself on the wrong end of a criminal charge ?

For example, if you found a burglar in your house who was threatening you what are you actually entitled to do apart from exerting reasonable force to defend yourself ? Can you arrest a burglar ?

Personally, I would be inclined to run away and lock myself in a cupboard on the basis that I will live to another day ! However, I wonder what I am entitled to do if cornered in a situation from which there is no handy escape.

JuliusCaesar

I think every citizen has the right to arrest somebody - but you can't detain them. I did hear a story of an eccentric 'arresting' a middle-aged woman on Dolier St for littering, and frogmarching her off to Pearse St Garda Stn, where he was met with many bemused looks, and the embarrassed woman told not to do it again.

seamus

You may use "reasonable force" to detain someone on whom you've made a citizen's arrest. You also have a duty to summon a Garda and hand that person over to a Garda as soon as you can.

They're generally discouraged for a number of reasons. Safety being one of the main ones. There's also the issue of mistakes.

Take an example I thought of last night. I was in Dunnes, and had my tie in my jacket pocket, as I had just left work. At one point, I noticed the end of my tie was slightly hanging out of my pocket, so I stuffed it back in. Now, to someone casual, it may have looked like I was stealing a tie (it was a Dunnes tie!), and they may have executed a citizen's arrest on me as I left the store. Give that they would have been wrong, there's a good chance that I could have sued a person in such a scenario for a few things such as wrongful arrest, (and if they'd attempted to detain me) wrongful imprisonment and assault.

walrusgumble

moral of the try ... try and leave it to the gardai to their job, no piont sticking yer neck out and risk a law suit against you or maybe injury

civdef

In theory, arresting someone is easy, just tell them they're under arrest, and then restrain them till the guards arrive. Keeping them arrested can be a bit harder, particularly without the benefit of cuffs, batons and the like.

Generally speaking, knocking the the arrested person face down on the ground and sitting on their back will do the job fairly well, with the only catch that this is also an excellent way to suffocate the arrested person via positional asphyxia.

For a "civilian" to arrest someone, they really need to be certain the person they are arresting is guilty of an arrestable offence - otherwise they'll be the ones ending up in court.

In the scenario above, with a burglar in your house threatening you, yes you would be entitled to arrest them - whether you'd be able to is another question.

Turner

As civdef said everybody has a power of arrest but only for arrestable offences.

An arrestable offence is one which could get the alleged offender 5yrs or more in prison.

So theft, burglary,robbery,rape,serious assault, drug trafficking or possession for sale or supply, firearms and offensive weapons offences. The power of arrest comes from Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1997.

Citizens have no power of arrest for minor offences like threatening behaviour, minor assault (gardai dont have power of arrest either), littering, road traffic offences.

Our man in Havana

road traffic offences

Many road traffic offences are arrestable offences.

civdef

The way they're worded though only gives the power of arrest to a Garda. They carry a power of arrest, but aren't arrestable offences.

cushtac

Criminal Law Act 1997, Section 4:

4.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence.

(2) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an arrestable offence has been committed, he or she may arrest without warrant anyone whom the member, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.

(5) A person who is arrested pursuant to this section by a person other than a member of the Garda Síochána shall be transferred into the custody of the Garda Síochána as soon as practicable.

(6) This section shall not affect the operation of any enactment restricting the institution of proceedings for an offence or prejudice any power of arrest conferred by law apart from this section.

Turner

Bond-007 wrote:

Many road traffic offences are arrestable offences.

Section 53 of the RTA 1961-2006 (Dangerous Driving) and Dangerous Parking are the only arrestable offence I can think of off hand..

Power of arrest for drink driving is a specific power from Section 49(8) RTA. It only applies to Gardai.

Overheal

Well, look at schools: on occassion a kid will get caught with contraband (wether it be a pellet gun, knive, narcotics, etc. etc.) and the school will detain him and wait for the Gards to show up: fine example of a citizen arrest, though I've never actually associated the term with it before...

cast_iron

cushtac wrote:

Criminal Law Act 1997, Section 4:
(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.

So does this not mean that indeed a citizen can arrest someone for an offence that they may not have arresting powers if they suspect the person to be evading potential legitimate arrest from the Gardai? (eg. drink driving)

Turner

No. Subsection (1) and (2) relate to arrestable offences.

Drink driving is not an arrestable offence. There is a specific power of arrest alright but it does not carry a sentence of 5yrs or more in prison on indictment.

Fey!

Overheal wrote:

Well, look at schools: on occassion a kid will get caught with contraband (wether it be a pellet gun, knive, narcotics, etc. etc.) and the school will detain him and wait for the Gards to show up: fine example of a citizen arrest, though I've never actually associated the term with it before...

Isn't the school staff a legal gaurdian when the kid is in it? If so, then the question of them being detained would, in my un-informed opinion, be a bit of a grey area.

Overheal

Why would it be? If that were indeed the case it sounds even more reasonable: It would be like your Mother turning you in, happens all the time

dermot_sheehan

Overheal wrote:

Well, look at schools: on occassion a kid will get caught with contraband (wether it be a pellet gun, knive, narcotics, etc. etc.) and the school will detain him and wait for the Gards to show up: fine example of a citizen arrest, though I've never actually associated the term with it before...

A school would highly unlikely arrest a child since most "offences" a child commits are either not criminal offences, not punishable by more then 5 years and therefore no power of arrest for civilians, or the child would be below the age of criminal responsibilty in any case.

Schools and teachers generally exercise the power of locqu parentis (in place of parents), one main restriction is that unlike parents they can not use "reasonable chastisement" as a form of punishment.

seamus

gabhain7 wrote:

A school would highly unlikely arrest a child since most "offences" a child commits are either not criminal offences, not punishable by more then 5 years and therefore no power of arrest for civilians, or the child would be below the age of criminal responsibilty in any case.

Schools and teachers generally exercise the power of locqu parentis (in place of parents), one main restriction is that unlike parents they can not use "reasonable chastisement" as a form of punishment.

Does that mean then that if you see a child in the street committing an offence (say mugging a woman), there's actually nothing you can do (save using reasonable force to protect the woman's safety) because there is no way in law for the child to be convicted as a criminal?

Turner

A child mugging a woman in which fear is involved (on the victim) classes the act as robbery.

Definitely a power of arrest for any person who witnesses it.

Overheal

If the kid needs to mug an old lady: I doubt his Parents can afford a crackshot lawyer that would be good enough to contradict otherwise