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Why is it so offensive to ask a lesbian if she's a lesbian?

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  • 31-10-2006 11:09pm
    #1
    Aoife-FM104
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭


    Hi

    I got in a fight a few days ago because I asked a lesbian if she was a lesbian. We had been talking for a while, and I thought I should ask her.

    She was actually a lesbian, but I wasn't 100% sure.

    She got extremely angry and wanted to fight with me!

    I hear this is common (maybe not the fighting, but the getting angry.)

    Does anyone know why this is?


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    #2
    Huggles
    Registered Users Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭Huggles


    If someone asked you if you where hetero how would you feel? A little put out that they should ask such a personal question?

    Sexuality is really nonones business and I am amused to find out your exact words.


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    #3
    Aoife-FM104
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭Aoife-FM104


    TheGooner wrote:
    If someone asked you if you where hetero how would you feel? A little put out that they should ask such a personal question?

    Sexuality is really nonones business and I am amused to find out your exact words.

    But that's just not true.

    When straight people are asked if they're straight they don't get angry. At worst, it's mild confusion.

    Gay men generally don't get angry if someone asks if they're gay.

    This seems to be quite specific to lesbians.

    And is it really a personal question? When you dress butch and make an effort to look butch, you're not exactly trying to hide your sexual persuasion...


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    #4
    Huggles
    Registered Users Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭Huggles


    I'm not a lesbian myself but i do know a couple and I don't think there is ever a conscious effort to look butch. But thats a whole other convo tbh.

    What exactly did you say to her? If someone asked you if you where a lesbian how would you react?

    I really do think its a very personal question especially if you think this person (I am guessing a stranger) is gay, it is their choice whether or not to disclose that about themselves to you.

    I'm kind of mortified for you tbh.


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    #5
    Aoife-FM104
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭Aoife-FM104


    If someone asked if I was a lesbian I would laugh!

    Why is it such a personal question though?

    If I was a straight man, and a gay man started talking to me, I would ask if he is gay.

    If a girl starts talking to me, and I think she is a lesbian, it is fair to ask...

    Straight people have absolutely no problem with people knowing they're straight. If lesbians really want to become "a normal part of society" (silly phrase, I know) wouldn't it make sense to not make such a deal about being a lesbian?


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    #6
    Huggles
    Registered Users Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭Huggles


    I get your point but i think its a very personal question.

    You still haven't answerd with what your exact words where....what was teh situation was she chatting you up or something?


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    #7
    Aoife-FM104
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭Aoife-FM104


    Yeah we both got chatting outside a bar.

    Can't remember my exact question but it was something straight forward like, "Are you a lesbian?"


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    #8
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    'tis a bit of a personal question alright, but I personally wouldn't get too upset if someone asked if I were gay. In most circumstances anyway.

    Tbh, I'd probably prefer if they asked me out right, rather than tip-toeing around it and gossiping with others about their 'suspicions' later on.


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    #9
    Stephanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 198 ✭✭Stephanos


    TheGooner wrote:
    If someone asked you if you where hetero how would you feel? A little put out that they should ask such a personal question?

    Sexuality is really nonones business and I am amused to find out your exact words.

    Why in this forum is the same illogical tripe always hashed out? It is so engrained in the Boards LGBT forum. Asking someone if they are gay is nothing like asking someone if they are straight. Firstly you are more likely to ask someone if they are gay because it is not the "norm".

    Some gay men do get insulted if you asked if they are gay for the simple reason that some gay men don't like the idea they are camp. I am sure you would hate to think that someone has you, or what they consider the majority of you, all sussed out as soon as they meet you. I know I get a little bit hurt when someone says to me "well you are obviously gay". I feel like saying "well yes but there is a whole lot more to me".
    Aoife-FM104 wrote:
    Yeah we both got chatting outside a bar.

    Can't remember my exact question but it was something straight forward like, "Are you a lesbian?"

    I do agree that it is a personal question but I do it the whole time when I am in gay bars. When one is in a gay bar it is relatively safe to assume that there is a good chance that the person is gay. I think the girl's anger at you asking the question is more a reflection on her than it is you. She might not be out very long or might have some issues with her sexuality. While it is a personal question it is not the most offensive thing to ask.


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    #10
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Stephanos wrote:
    Some gay men do get insulted if you asked if they are gay for the simple reason that some gay men don't like the idea they are camp. I am sure you would hate to think that someone has you, or what they consider the majority of you, all sussed out as soon as they meet you. I know I get a little bit hurt when someone says to me "well you are obviously gay". I feel like saying "well yes but there is a whole lot more to me".

    I think this is more it, then anything else. People don't like to think they are a walking talking stereotype.


    That said It is a personal question, and annoying as hell when people feel they've a fight to an ask questions like that. It's nothing liek asking if someone is straight, because few people see anything wrong with being straight.


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    #11
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    Its all a bit confusing really. On one hand, we have the 'out, loud and proud' gay people having carnivals down the street to let us know they are gay, and on the other we have gay people who are deeply offended at the public suggestion that they might be gay, like its anyones business.

    Couldnt we have some kind of handbook on whats acceptable?


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    #12
    azezil
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭azezil


    I'd regard that as a personal question myself, however if I'd gotten talking to someone outside a pub and they asked if I was gay, assuming I found the guy attractive, I'd be hopeful that he was gay... it'd just be embarressing if he wasn't!


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    #13
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    CiaranC wrote:
    Its all a bit confusing really. On one hand, we have the 'out, loud and proud' gay people having carnivals down the street to let us know they are gay, and on the other we have gay people who are deeply offended at the public suggestion that they might be gay, like its anyones business.

    Couldnt we have some kind of handbook on whats acceptable?

    Wowwy people are different.

    On the one hand you've got the straights who think all gays are up in there faces, and on the other you've got the straights asking gays a shed load of questions.


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    #14
    MicraBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭MicraBoy


    I think it's a personal question, which like most personal questions you should have the cop on not to ask a stranger, unless you are trying to pull them.


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    #15
    Aoife-FM104
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭Aoife-FM104


    When you are chatting to someone, how is it so different to asking them what they work as? Is it a "shame" thing? Deep down they are ashamed or uncomfortable about people knowing they're a lesbian?


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    #16
    azezil
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭azezil


    No I'd say its more a fear of being lead down an ally and having the **** kicked outta you...


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    #17
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Aoife-FM104 wrote:
    When you are chatting to someone, how is it so different to asking them what they work as? Is it a "shame" thing? Deep down they are ashamed or uncomfortable about people knowing they're a lesbian?

    I can see why she got angry, you're being very obtuse about this.

    Its none of your business. Most women I know would take great offense being questioned about aspects of their sexuality by stangers.


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    #18
    MicraBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭MicraBoy


    When you are chatting to someone, how is it so different to asking them what they work as? Is it a "shame" thing? Deep down they are ashamed or uncomfortable about people knowing they're a lesbian?

    Believe it or not some people do get very defensive about the job they work in.

    Anywho the analogy isn't accurate IMHO. Questions about sex or sexuality are not classed in the same bracket as general chit chat. Asking about her sexuality is more akin to asking does she like to have sex outdoors, than asking what she works at. With some people you'll get away with it, with others you won't. It's one of those questions you need to weigh up and see is it appropriate or not.

    The whole other side is why you needed to know. Was it in any way relevent to you or the conversation? Or was she yapping away, while in your head all you could hear was yourself going "I wonder is she a lesbian? I must know if she is a lesbian!"


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    #19
    Aoife-FM104
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭Aoife-FM104


    OK but you see this is what I'm trying to get at -

    Straight people (generally) don't give a damn, and neither do gay guys. The angry reaction seems to be specific to lesbians.

    I am not the only person who thinks this!!


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    #20
    monkey tennis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭monkey tennis


    Aoife-FM104 wrote:
    The angry reaction seems to be specific to lesbians.

    It is?

    Exactly how many lesbians have tried to fight you because you asked whether they were a lesbian? Sounds more like this is specific to a small number of people, if you ask me.

    Either way, it's a bit of an odd thing to ask someone in casual conversation. If a girl asks me if I'm a lesbian because she's interested in me, that makes sense. If she's straight, I don't see how/why it should concern her.

    (I've never started a fight with someone because of them asking me if I'm a lesbian by the way, but I would make it clear if I found it an odd/intrusive question to ask)


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    #21
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Aoife-FM104 wrote:
    OK but you see this is what I'm trying to get at -
    and neither do gay guys.

    Thats not true. Some care, some don't.


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    #22
    Huggles
    Registered Users Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭Huggles


    LiouVille wrote:
    I can see why she got angry, you're being very obtuse about this.

    Its none of your business. Most women I know would take great offense being questioned about aspects of their sexuality by stangers.

    Very well said. Aoife your coming across kinda rude about this, like its your God given right to know.


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    #23
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Actually Aoife - I wouldn't agree with you that gay men don't get angry or upset. I remember fighting with someone when they asked me.

    I think there are a few reasons

    1. The person may be not fully out
    2. The person may not fully accept that they are gay
    3. The person asking it is being incredibly rude in the way they ask
    4. The person may be self conscious about how they are perceived - overly camp, overly butch
    5. The person might have internalised homophobia
    6. The person might be scared as to why the question is being asked

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #24
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    What if there was 'chatting up involved'? Would it be acceptable then?


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    #25
    monkey tennis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭monkey tennis


    senordingdong wrote:
    What if there was 'chatting up involved'? Would it be acceptable then?

    It would depend on the person, naturally, but I'd say it would at least be more understandable, if still pretty blunt. Then again, if a girl is specifically chatting up another girl (or a guy chatting up another guy), chances are they're already going to have a fair suspicion that they're gay/bi, in fairness.


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    #26
    Stephanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 198 ✭✭Stephanos


    I think it can be agreed that it is different with each person and the context in which it was asked.


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    #27
    Aoife-FM104
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭Aoife-FM104


    But but...

    I agree it depends on the person, but I'm talking in general, lesbians are waaay more defensive about their sexuality than (for example) hetero people.

    It find it sad, really. The lesbian must not be fully happy with herself to react to (I agree, a blunt personal question) with such anger and defensiveness...


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    #28
    Gordon
    Registered Users Posts: 35,524 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    Aoife-FM104 wrote:
    But but...

    I agree it depends on the person, but I'm talking in general, lesbians are waaay more defensive about their sexuality than (for example) hetero people.

    It find it sad, really. The lesbian must not be fully happy with herself to react to (I agree, a blunt personal question) with such anger and defensiveness...
    Woah there! I haven't asked that question myself but I don't think you should assume that they are not happy with themselves. Maybe you have preconceptions about homosexual women that got transferred in the conversation/question and that sparked the ill feeling. Either way, it's a jump to assume that someone is unhappy with themselves because of that question.

    Maybe the word lesbian has bad connotations and you should have said 'are you homosexual'? Maybe it's like saying 'Are you a gay' to a guy? I dunno.


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    #29
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Aoife-FM104 wrote:
    But but...

    I agree it depends on the person, but I'm talking in general, lesbians are waaay more defensive about their sexuality than (for example) hetero people.

    Well yes, as are most Queers regardless of gender.
    It find it sad, really. The lesbian must not be fully happy with herself to react to (I agree, a blunt personal question) with such anger and defensiveness...

    Tell me, do you muff dive? Come off it. Some people keep their private life private, doesn't mean they are unhappy with it. Theres very few of my close friends with whom I discuss sex and sexuality.


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    #30
    WizZard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,762 ✭✭✭WizZard


    Aoife-FM104 wrote:
    ...and I thought I should ask her.
    Why?

    Did it matter to you? Would it affect the way you thought about her?

    The issue is yours TBH.
    Aoife-FM104 wrote:
    I hear this is common (maybe not the fighting, but the getting angry.)

    Does anyone know why this is?
    Why what? That there are misconceptions floating around about people just because of their sexuality, or the fact that you "heard" something and assumed it was true?


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    #31
    monkey tennis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭monkey tennis


    Aoife-FM104 wrote:
    It find it sad, really. The lesbian must not be fully happy with herself to react to (I agree, a blunt personal question) with such anger and defensiveness...

    Nice little bit of armchair psychology there. I find it sad that you're so put out by the fact that you asked someone a very personal question and got called on it (albeit possibly in an overreactive way) that you have to go onto an internet forum to vent about it. Who are you to question someone else's private life? What business is it of yours whether they're 'happy with themselves'? And why did you feel it was so important to know this woman's sexual preferences?

    By the way, the issue of sexuality is of far greater consequence to a lesbian than a straight girl. Your sexuality is probably not a big deal in your life - because it doesn't place you in a minority. You will probably never know what that feels like, so you will never be able to understand how a lesbian feels about her sexuality.

    Put yourself in her shoes - imagine if some random stranger asked you out of the blue if you're into BDSM. I'd imagine you'd feel pretty self-conscious, and possibly offended at their nosiness.


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