Why is it so offensive to ask a lesbian if she's a lesbian?

Aoife-FM104

For the record, I didn't walk up to a random stranger. She was chatting me up...

It's not the first time I've heard of this. I am sure you all have similar lesbian specific stories.

Not trying to annoy anyone... so your answers that "sexuality is a far greater deal for a lesbian" doesn't need to be said with anger. You're basically agreeing with what I'm saying there!

Huggles

monkey tennis wrote:

Nice little bit of armchair psychology there. I find it sad that you're so put out by the fact that you asked someone a very personal question and got called on it (albeit possibly in an overreactive way) that you have to go onto an internet forum to vent about it. Who are you to question someone else's private life? What business is it of yours whether they're 'happy with themselves'? And why did you feel it was so important to know this woman's sexual preferences?

By the way, the issue of sexuality is of far greater consequence to a lesbian than a straight girl. Your sexuality is probably not a big deal in your life - because it doesn't place you in a minority. You will probably never know what that feels like, so you will never be able to understand how a lesbian feels about her sexuality.

Put yourself in her shoes - imagine if some random stranger asked you out of the blue if you're into BDSM. I'd imagine you'd feel pretty self-conscious, and possibly offended at their nosiness.

This is my post of the year! Well said Monkey

monkey tennis

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

You're basically agreeing with what I'm saying there!

Not quite. You're making sweeping, disparaging statements about hundreds of millions of people (i.e. lesbians everywhere). I'm pointing out that it should be obvious why it's offensive to bluntly ask a lesbian if she's a lesbian.

And I'm not sure where you're getting the 'anger' from, unless you've got that Wikipedia psychology page open again! I wouldn't have thought the mere fact that I disagree with you (and show why in neat point form) would make anyone think I was angry.

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

I am sure you all have similar lesbian specific stories.

Not really. I have stories about certain specific people being assholes, and other certain specific people being nice. I don't have many stories that apply to every member of a particular minority group. This is part of my point - this one single lesbian is no more a spokeswoman for every lesbian than you are for every straight woman.

Also, if this woman was indeed chatting you up, wasn't it obvious enough from that that she was a lesbian/bi?

senordingdong

monkey tennis wrote:

It would depend on the person, naturally, but I'd say it would at least be more understandable, if still pretty blunt. Then again, if a girl is specifically chatting up another girl (or a guy chatting up another guy), chances are they're already going to have a fair suspicion that they're gay/bi, in fairness.

I guess, but I would consider myself to be a straight to the point guy, and I wouldn't want to offend anyone. But if a guy was chatting to me at a pub or something, and I thought he might have thought that I was gay and he was chatting me up, I would ask him. Just to clear the air, I don't see why he should get offended...also to be considered is that it would be rude to allow someone of the opposite sexuality chat you up and you never tell them that you are not of their sexuality.

Another such example would be if I was chatting up a gay girl and she didn't realise it or didn't want to tell me to **** off. Or she was not a straight to the point kinda gal.
I mean, obviously you don't just parade around a bar asking these questions, but if these scenarios took place, I would ask, and I would be shocked if I got the response the OP got.

Aoife-FM104

I live very near George's Street, (and we drink there, in Hogan's) so it's not uncommon we get talking to lesbians.

I am yet to meet a lesbian who doesn't have some kind of "how dare you suggest I'm a lesbian!" thing going on.

As I said, it may be personal, but to get so angry?

It's not normal to get so angry at personal questions.

By saying "it's none of my business" or "how would I like it" etc is avoiding the issue.

IN GENERAL (!!!) gay men don't react like this. Straight people certainly don't. Lesbians GENERALLY do.

I understand you guys want to stick up for your own, but surely you don't really believe wanting a scrap is somehow my fault?

Boston

I would not be comfortable with answering those questions from a stranger. Simple as. Some people lash out when they feel you've backed them into a cornor, regardless fo your intent.

All that said, maybe you're coming up against some mega "chip on the auld shoulder" lesbians. These women would be likely to have started a fight about anything, or maybe they are upset at the rejection of your advances.

Annasopra

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

I am yet to meet a lesbian who doesn't have some kind of "how dare you suggest I'm a lesbian!" thing going on.

Are you serioulsy suggesting every single lesbian you've ever met is like this?

Aoife-FM104

Johnnymcg wrote:

Are you serioulsy suggesting every single lesbian you've ever met is like this?

Yes! They've all been like this. I'm not saying eveyr lesbian is, just the ones I've met.

Have you really never heard of this before? Lesbians who get overly aggressive and defensive at this kind of thing?

Anyway, I don't want to be bothering people, so if I'm being too un-PC we can close the topic...

Stark

You just need to me more diplomatic than "Are you a dyke like?" I reckon. Like maybe asking are they there with friends or something and deducing from there.

Vegeta

This is complete bullsh1t!

If you strike up a conversation with a polite stranger who asks you, in a genuine, curious and pleasant manner "What is your gender preference?" You'd want to be a complete d1ckhead to get angry and defensive.

On the other hand if an ignorant tool who asks the same question but in a manner which implies there is something wrong with being hetro or homo, well then you can tell them to piss off.

I also don't believe it a personal question. Sexuality makes up so much of who everybody is, if it didn't would there even need to be discussions like this. Calling it a personal question implies you keep your sexuality private. If you kiss a someone (be they opposite or same sex) in public you are sending a signal (probably not intentionally) about sexual preference.

I don't like people with the attitude of "I'll kiss somone in public, i'll march in a parade, i'll have kids and wear a wedding band but don't you dare ask me about my sexuality"

People display so many signs of their sexuality publiclly but then get offended if the public ask them to confirm it. That's complete sh1te.

monkey tennis

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

It's not normal to get so angry at personal questions.

Who are you to decide what's normal? And who are you to decide to what degree a personal question is acceptable? It's not black and white, there is not a neat line between 'vaguely personal' and 'deeply personal' - every individual will feel differently about various personal questions. The fact that you don't find someone inquiring about your sexual orientation doesn't give you the right to dictate what other people can find offensive or not. Again, would you like someone asking if you were into BDSM? I doubt you'd find it appropriate if a man asked you 'do you suck dick' in casual conversation, but it's something I've seen (heard?) in the gay scene. Some people find it perfectly fine, others would find it unacceptable.

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

By saying "it's none of my business" or "how would I like it" etc is avoiding the issue.

I think we're in disagreement over what 'the issue' is then. You seem to think the 'issue' is that someone overreacted to a question that you deem inoffensive. I think that the issue also includes your idea that your opinion of what constitutes a personal question, or what kind of personal question might be offensive, is FACT and not to be challenged by the person on the receiving end of the question. Again, this woman's idea of an acceptable personal question clearly differs from yours, and you're acting as though she's automatically the one in the wrong. I'm trying to get you to see things from her point of view.

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

I understand you guys want to stick up for your own

I don't know that anyone is 'sticking up for their own' - I don't know this woman personally for example, and I don't feel responsible for lesbians everywhere. But I do think it's odd that you believe that you have the god-given right to ask possibly deeply personal questions (again, a matter of perspective) of someone (not mentioning gender or sexuality) without them getting upset.

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

if I'm being too un-PC we can close the topic...

Now who's avoiding the issue... <--- little smiley to show that this is a joke and all is well so I don't get accused of being a raging, overreactive biker dyke...

MicraBoy

Vegeta wrote:

If you strike up a conversation with a polite stranger who asks you, in a genuine, curious and pleasant manner "What is your gender preference?" You'd want to be a complete d1ckhead to get angry and defensive.

I kind of agree. Or it could just be on of the things johnnymcg mentioned also. I think the point is that if you can't see that this is not totally black and white then you are also kinda of a d1ckhead too.

The thing I suspect is that Aoife's manner isn't all that genuine, curious and pleasant. She seems somewhat obstinate. After all, inspite of running into trouble more than once with this she continues to ask about people's sexuality. Clearly it may take a hiding for her to cop on and use some subtler means.

Boston

Vegeta wrote:

I don't like people with the attitude of "I'll kiss somone in public, i'll march in a parade, i'll have kids and wear a wedding band but don't you dare ask me about my sexuality"

You really need to realise that "The Gay" isn't a single creature. Stop talking like what your saying applies straight accross the board. People have a right to privacy, why should they have to open up their private life to questiosn and answers just because they hold hands or whatever?

Shellie13

Sorry quick q OP...are you a lesbian urself?...Im lost here-cos if you are it seems like it was a kinda "can i pull you" type thing, if you're not it seems like a "is it ok to hug you or will i turn you on?"...
Ye i know that seems really narrowminded but people are that narrow minded every day on the street- and unless you know someone well or met in a situation where you feel comfortable asking thise kinda questions you can be taken up all wrong by the person^^

DoesNotCompute

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

Hi

I got in a fight a few days ago because I asked a lesbian if she was a lesbian. We had been talking for a while, and I thought I should ask her.

She was actually a lesbian, but I wasn't 100% sure.

She got extremely angry and wanted to fight with me!

I hear this is common (maybe not the fighting, but the getting angry.)

Does anyone know why this is?

She's probably just angry in general. I wouldn't be insulted if someone asked me if I'm straight (which I am).

Boston

DoesNotCompute wrote:

She's probably just angry in general. I wouldn't be insulted if someone asked me if I'm straight (which I am).

This thread makes my head hurt, percisely because of the above. Do you honestly think hetrosexuality inherently carries with it the same baggage as homosexuality?

Just look at this thread ffs, theres an expectation that homosexuals should be open, but not too open about their sexuality, discrete by not private, willing to answer questions, but not to question.

I recon in about five questions at the max, I could make almost any hetrosexual uncomfortable talking about their sexuality.

Shellie13

LiouVille wrote:

This thread makes my head hurt, percisely because of the above. Do you honestly think hetrosexuality inherently carries with it the same baggage as homosexuality?

Just look at this thread ffs, theres an expectation that homosexuals should be open, but not too open about their sexuality, discrete by not private, willing to answer questions, but not to question.

I recon in about five questions at the max, I could make almost any hetrosexual uncomfortable talking about their sexuality.

Intricate details maybe... But a meer question outside a pub... Like i can get someone being a bit hidden or defensive if they're having trouble figuring it out for themselfs are arent ready to tell people...but if someone appears open...
And threatening to fight...ffs!!!

Sexuality isnt the whole person but its a huge part (for most people anyway!)
It dosnt seem to be something overly private imo... I mean think of the role discussioon of that topic plays in everyday life...I've seen girls who are practially strangers to each other "bond" while discussing the "hot guys"...
Theres a differnece in just enquirying if some one is a lesbian and an entire inquesition!

That said hearing someone you dont know ask you that randomly can indeed get your back up- It shouldnt but depending on experiance it does!

Boston

It's been my experience that the farther away from the norms wrt sex and sexuality people get, the more private people become away those issues. I guess people preempt a poor reaction

monkey tennis

Shellie13 wrote:

Sorry quick q OP...are you a lesbian urself?

Ha, I've never met the OP, but just from this thread, I can GUARANTEE you she's not a lesbian! (unless she's trying to do a devil's advocate kind of thing)

claire h

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

For the record, I didn't walk up to a random stranger. She was chatting me up...

There ya go. Some girl is talking to you, possibly trying to chat you up, possibly just being friendly, and you asking "are you a lesbian?" is you making an assumption that she's chatting you up (obviously none of us can know whether she was or wasn't, but if she *was*, you wouldn't have needed to ask). You asking "are you a lesbian?" is saying that you perceive her as coming on to you, that you're not comfortable with her coming on to you, that you're not interested in her or other women in general, that you see her as Different (because you needed her to specify her sexual orientation). Wouldn't you be a teensy bit uncomfortable if you were the person who was maybe only being friendly, or maybe taking a chance on talking to someone you were interested only to be brushed off like that?

Verita

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

Hi

I got in a fight a few days ago because I asked a lesbian if she was a lesbian. We had been talking for a while, and I thought I should ask her.

She was actually a lesbian, but I wasn't 100% sure.

She got extremely angry and wanted to fight with me!

I hear this is common (maybe not the fighting, but the getting angry.)

Does anyone know why this is?

Aoife it's horse for courses. tbh it sounds like you read the situation incorrectly. Perhaps asking "are you coming on to me?" follwed by a laugh would have got you the answer?

Some people are sensitive to things. Some are not. If you asked me were I gay I'd not be bothered. I can think of the odd bloke I know who would be slightly taken a back you would even think to ask.

Live and learn and stop digging a hole for your self. On this occasion it is quite obvious you were wrong to ask. Why else would she want to box the head off you? And perhaps drink didn't help?

No need to get real deep about it.

I once asked a lady I had not seen in a while when her baby was due (I'd heard she was pregnant)

She had the baby a few weeks previously. She broke her sh1t laughing.
People can be different.

Vegeta

LiouVille wrote:

You really need to realise that "The Gay" isn't a single creature. Stop talking like what your saying applies straight accross the board. People have a right to privacy, why should they have to open up their private life to questiosn and answers just because they hold hands or whatever?

Whether you like it or not if you hold hands or kiss someone in public(which everyone should be able to do) you make your sexuality public knowledge.

If you want to keep your sexuality private then do so. I don't care if you do or don't

But if you go around flaunting your sexuality in public (whatever your sexuality is) then get pissy if someone asks you about it, you've got no-one to blame but yourself.

morgana

claire h wrote:

You asking "are you a lesbian?" is saying that you perceive her as coming on to you, that you're not comfortable with her coming on to you, that you're not interested in her or other women in general, that you see her as Different (because you needed her to specify her sexual orientation).

At last one post that makes sense ... you hit the nail on the head claire. I couldn't agree more.

senordingdong

morgana wrote:

At last one post that makes sense ... you hit the nail on the head claire. I couldn't agree more.

I have to disagree with you agreeing????

If that's the case then surely the OP would have had the same right to go ape **** as this girl was coming onto her. That would mean the woman assumed the op was a lesbian.

TallGirl

Aoife.... I think its quite obvious that "YES" Lesbians obviously do get angry when asked this question.
You can see from this thread that all the (I presume) lesbians seem pretty angry at the thoughts of being asked such a question. Its probably an insecurity thing after years of not knowing exactly who they were.... thats not meant to be patronising btw.

monkey tennis wrote:

I doubt you'd find it appropriate if a man asked you 'do you suck dick' in casual conversation ..[/size]

Also, I don't think that girl Monkey Tennis is doing anything for the gay plight by comparing the question "Are you gay" to the question "Do u suck dick".... interesting.

monkey tennis

TallGirl wrote:

You can see from this thread that all the (I presume) lesbians seem pretty angry at the thoughts of being asked such a question.

I don't understand where you're getting 'angry' from. As pointed out earlier, the mere fact that someone disagrees with someone doesn't make them angry. And I personally have no problem with someone asking me whether I'm gay, but I can understand why someone else might have a problem with it.

In fact, more to the point, I would say that the majority of lesbians wouldn't in fact be angry with someone for asking about their sexuality, despite the OP's (and yours, by the looks of things) sweeping assumptions. You're tarring hundreds of millions of people with the brush of a handful.

TallGirl wrote:

Its probably an insecurity thing after years of not knowing exactly who they were.... thats not meant to be patronising btw.

I find that hard to believe. Also, yay, more armchair psychology!

TallGirl wrote:

Also, I don't think that girl Monkey Tennis is doing anything for the gay plight...

I wasn't aware of any 'plight'. Except maybe that of ignorant assumptions.

TallGirl wrote:

...by comparing the question "Are you gay" to the question "Do u suck dick".... interesting.

You've entirely missed the point. I was illustrating that any question that might be quite acceptable to one person might not be as acceptable to another. One person might not mind in the slightest to be asked 'do you suck dick?'. Another might be highly offended. Fair enough, it's a more extreme example, but the OP didn't seem to understand that another person might see a question as far more personal than the asker would.

the_syco

Here's one for you: if you think a woman is lesbian, how do you ask if shes straight?

Oh, and if someone thinks its none of my business, well, erm, do I just ask her for the dance?

Boston

the_syco wrote:

Here's one for you: if you think a woman is lesbian, how do you ask if shes straight?

Oh, and if someone thinks its none of my business, well, erm, do I just ask her for the dance?

Yes.

d4r3n

I think everyone has missed the most obvious question: Was she hot?

the_syco

LiouVille wrote:

I recon in about five questions at the max, I could make almost any hetrosexual uncomfortable talking about their sexuality.

This intrigues me. How would you go about doing so?