Why is it so offensive to ask a lesbian if she's a lesbian?

Boston

Most people make allot of persumptions about their sexuality. Being Challanged to provide a basis for those persumptions is often very disconcerting, regardless of where you stand.

fozzle

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

When straight people are asked if they're straight they don't get angry. At worst, it's mild confusion.

Gay men generally don't get angry if someone asks if they're gay.

This seems to be quite specific to lesbians.

And is it really a personal question? When you dress butch and make an effort to look butch, you're not exactly trying to hide your sexual persuasion...

Not all lesbians are butch. It's offensive because it's all based on preconcieved notions, you're only asking because she looks/acts like a stereotypical lesbian. A friend of mine is butch (because she used take steroids for asthma) and she regularly gets asked if she's gay. She's not. It drives her nuts because it's no-ones business.

If a girl starts talking to me, and I think she is a lesbian, it is fair to ask..

Why is it fair to ask? I realise that LGBT people have less rights in this reject from the middle ages country, but surely we're allowed a little privacy? If you think she's hitting on you I guess it's understandable, but she'll probably check if you're interested before making any moves, or at least, I've never heard of unsupecting straights being dragged off to their lair by horny butch evil lesbians, but maybe I'm just not talking to the right people.

Gah, I just hate predjudice. I realise there are people who fit stereotypes but surely that doesn't mean that if someone fits one that their private life becomes your business. Or that if you don't fit the stereotype (like yours truely not being butch) that you should have to put up with people saying "you don't look like one" and "ah, but you're just doing it to get fellas, right? wink wink?".

*end of rant*

fozzle

Vegeta wrote:

This is complete bullsh1t!

If you strike up a conversation with a polite stranger who asks you, in a genuine, curious and pleasant manner "What is your gender preference?" You'd want to be a complete d1ckhead to get angry and defensive.

My god, you're right, I have finally seen the light. It's just like, if a stranger asked you if you take it up the as5, and if you spit or swallow, why you wouldn't mind at all!

But if you go around flaunting your sexuality in public (whatever your sexuality is) then get pissy if someone asks you about it, you've got no-one to blame but yourself.[/QUOTE
Hmmm, another good point. Maybe if all the gays stopped wearing signs on our backs saying dyke and queer and whatever else and if we stopped having orgies in the street then people would leave us alone. Oh, wait a minute.

Can I ask you how often you actually see homosexual couples holding hands or kissing in street? Cos in my experience it's not a practice that many would feel comfortable/safe engaging in.

Sangre

Rofl, the ignorance and lack of basic manners or empathy in this thread shocking. I've glanced over the last few post so forgive me if I repeat anything already said.

Firstly, questioning someone on their sexuality is such a deeply personal question it hurts my head why the OP can't understand why this shouldn't be in a list of questions you ask a stranger. This is especially true if it comes to asking someone if they're gay. Why? Well...the list goes on.
They maybe not be fully out, they have had traumatic experiences from families over the issue, they may have been physically attacked because of they're sexuality.
Comparisons to questions on asking if someone is straight is so stupid as to be laughable. Maybe come back to me with that analogy when you're straight friends are kicked out of their house for telling their parents they like girls.

There is also the fact that asking someone if they're gay is usually based on preconceived notions of their sexuality e.g high voice, pink clothes. A lot of people don't like to be judged on appearances, especially when it lumps them into a category they may personally dislike (being camp). I would imagine this is more offensive for women because the lesbian stereotype is one of big, butch man-woman, basically 'ugly women'. If someone thought I was gay because I looked ugly I probably would be slightly miffed too, particularly if a complete stranger asked me (and especially if I was trying to chat them up).

Depending on how the question is phrased...'wait, are you a lesbian', it can also be a clear rejection of any chat up attempts. If you're trying to chat someone up there is nothing more uncomfortable if the person points it out, especially if done in a defensive way. It immediately gives the impression you are not interested, not something most people like hearing. Its basically saying, you're clearly gay but how dare you think I am.

In conclusion, you shouldn't ask strangers their sexuality, its basic manners. Secondly if you do it in such a blunt fashion, don't be surprised if they get annoyed.
Now, of course this should never be a reason to fight someone but the fact the OP thinks that it is her god given right to ask people is almost funny. Not to mention straight people saying 'but I wouldnt get offended'

senordingdong

Sangre wrote:

Firstly, questioning someone on their sexuality is such a deeply personal question it hurts my head why the OP can't understand why this shouldn't be in a list of questions you ask a stranger

Just because some think it is a personal question doesn't mean it is a personal question. The people here who think it is don't speak for everyone.

Sangre

senordingdong wrote:

Just because some think it is a personal question doesn't mean it is a personal question. The people here who think it is don't speak for everyone.

No, it is a personal question. In the same way that asking someone how long is their dick is. While a few may differ on the answer the vast majority of social ettiquette will dictate the correct answer. In its current state society shows that it is not an appropiate question in a first meeting, perhaps that will change when society equalises a bit.

Rev Hellfire

Now I may be wrong here, but from what I've read it didn’t seem to me that this is a case of Aoife randomly asking people if they are gay or not. Which in itself may not be the ‘done’ thing to do.
But I gathered from the thread that this was in relation to her belief that she was been chatted up. Seems a reasonable thing to me to attempt to find out the motivation of the other person involved, there’s nothing wrong with everyone knowing where they stand.

mountainyman

Hi Aoife,
Basically if you watch Prisoner Cell Block H you will see that there are 2 kinds of lesbians, you have butches and femmes. You obviously asked a butch who punched you to make you her femme.

I suggest you watch PCBH for all your lesbian info needs.

MM

Boston

Rev Hellfire wrote:

Now I may be wrong here, but from what I've read it didn’t seem to me that this is a case of Aoife randomly asking people if they are gay or not. Which in itself may not be the ‘done’ thing to do.

Chatted up, In the same fashion allot of men persum a woman being talking or smiling at them is a come on?

But I gathered from the thread that this was in relation to her belief that she was been chatted up. Seems a reasonable thing to me to attempt to find out the motivation of the other person involved, there’s nothing wrong with everyone knowing where they stand.

Because everyone should know, where everyone else stands on every issue.

Rev Hellfire

LiouVille wrote:

Chatted up, In the same fashion allot of men persum a woman being talking or smiling at them is a come on?

I think we can assume that Aoife can recognise when she is getting chatted up. And as such asking a question to confirm that seems reasonable.

Edit: Actually maybe we can't assume with 100% certainty that she can, but we can assume she believed she was getting chatted up and that's what's important for this topic.

senordingdong

Sangre wrote:

No, it is a personal question.

No, it's a personal question to you. You don't speak for all of society.

Regardless of my point of view on what is or isn't personal, can we not all agree that Rev Hellfire hit the nail on the head?

Sangre

senordingdong wrote:

No, it's a personal question to you. You don't speak for all of society.

Regardless of my point of view on what is or isn't personal, can we not all agree that Rev Hellfire hit the nail on the head?

No, but common manners and decency do. Something that a lot of people should look into.

rainbow kirby

OMFG, Sangre being a voice of reason... what has happened to the world?

monkey tennis

senordingdong wrote:

No, it's a personal question to you. You don't speak for all of society.

It is a personal question - this is a matter of fact, not opinion. I think what you're trying to say is that whether the question is offensive or invasive is subjective, which is of course true. In fact, I was arguing the very same point earlier.

Rev Hellfire wrote:

Seems a reasonable thing to me to attempt to find out the motivation of the other person involved, there’s nothing wrong with everyone knowing where they stand.

Absolutely fair enough - I'm not necessarily condemning the OP for trying to scope out the situation. But it pisses me off to see someone generalize like the OP did, tarring a huge group of people with the brush of one bad experience. I also think it's pretty blinkered not to realize that asking someone about their sexual preferences is a personal question and could potentially be taken offense to.

Also, armchair psychology is one of my pet hates

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

are all monkeys as touchy as you or is it just because of the tennis?

monkey tennis

Mordeth wrote:

are all monkeys as touchy as you or is it just because of the tennis?

I have no balls!

senordingdong

monkey tennis wrote:

It is a personal question - this is a matter of fact, not opinion. I think what you're trying to say is that whether the question is offensive or invasive is subjective, which is of course true. In fact, I was arguing the very same point earlier.

God I hate this armchair sociology.:p

I don't think it's a personal question, and nor do alot of other people. These people and I are a part of society. This alone shows me that the matter is not black and white, 'yes' or 'no'.

Aoife-FM104

I also agree that it's not a personal question. Please don't try to pass off personal opinions as fact.

A lot of people here seem to be very uncomfortable with their sexuality.

These are the facts -

A very-obviously-a-lesbian tried to chat me up. Yes, I know when I'm being chatted up, just like you know when you're being chatted up. Not wanting the girl to feel like she's wasted her time or getting the wrong idea, I thought I'd ask her if she's a lesbian. Now, IT WAS OBVIOUS SHE WAS A LESBIAN and her reaction proved she was a lesbian. She got really angry with me.

So, even though she was being a lesbian by chatting up another girl, was it -

A. The fact that she had to face the reality that she was a lesbian
B. The fact that I wasn't a lesbian

- which made her so angry?

As I have already said, the concept of "angry lesbians" is not uncommon. My gay friends despise lesbians (me, I don't really care what sexuality etc., someone is, but I do like to know if they are chatting me up). Of course, NOT ALL LESBIANS ARE ANGRY but there does seem to be a massive massive massive defensive thing going on (which - thank you very much - most of the posters have proven here in this topic.)

It's just sexuality... get over it!!!!

Boston

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

A lot of people here seem to be very uncomfortable with their sexuality.

A very-obviously-a-lesbian tried to chat me up.

So once every months do you get a period? Lets talk about that for awhile. I mean it's "obvious" you do, therefore you should be happy to go into detail, if not, you're just uncomfortable with your gender.

It's just sexuality... get over it!!!!

You first like...

Aoife-FM104

Yes, of course I get my period once a month... I don't get your point...

Boston

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

Yes, of course I get my period once a month... I don't get your point...

Really? Whats it like?

keynesian

fozzle wrote:

My god, you're right, I have finally seen the light. It's just like, if a stranger asked you if you take it up the as5, and if you spit or swallow, why you wouldn't mind at all!

I wouldnt mind, I depends on the person, but I've been know to swallow. But then I'm also the type to hold hands.

Sangre wrote:

Rofl, the ignorance and lack of basic manners or empathy in this thread shocking.

I'm gay and I ask ppl, though they tend not to be camp and my next line "****, worth asking", I also tend to be in a str8 club. I can't say that too many ppl get offend.
Is a person being friendly or resiperating, you may point out I have poor social skills, so what, get over it.

Sangre wrote:

In the same way that asking someone how long is their dick is.

I love this question, it usual followed by "come back to mine and find out". Thow I must say, I can't say I've gotten layd by it, it's a laugh.

LiouVille wrote:

So once every months do you get a period? .

Your asking a women if she's unhealth, now that a turn off. I've live with woman and I don't remember them being that touchy about there period. The girls in work talk about the pill and peroid all the time and how the pill efects there peroid and peroids when travelling. They seem to all simpthize with each other.

abetarrush

he's takin the piss by bein mega-intrusive

keynesian

abetarrush wrote:

he's takin the piss by bein mega-intrusive

If that directed at me. Sorry I did see women only at the head of the post. How is intrusive to tell a life experance? Or do you mean I'm a bit forward?

Edit: by making a laugh of the question, one can get away with asking it, thus proving HOW one asks the question is the important thing.

Boston

I'm pointing out being intrusive. While Some women are comfortable talkign about their period to other women, in rather abstract terms, I doubt to many would be ok with being questioned on the specifics by a man. By Aoife's logic they are not comfortable with their gender.

Also, from the last post by aoife, it's clear she did not ask the question purely to be curious, as she had no doubt in her mind as to the sexuality of the person prior to asking, but rather asked it as a means of rejecting what she precieved as a come on. As such she used this womans sexuality against her, therefore she had every right to be pissed off.

What was wrong with a simple "Not tonight Luv"? IF a Man had come onto you and you where not interested would oyu have asked him "Are you a man", come off it.

keynesian

TheGooner wrote:

If someone asked you if you where hetero how would you feel? .

This has happened to me, I have to admit I get offended, "why do I not look gay". I know I'm controdicting myself, but just caz I don't ware sparkel or something. In true it's because I want to be a cool gay, and if some one sujected that I wasn't gay that means I can't be a cool gay caz then I'd just be a bloke who f*cks men. So it could be said that I'm not comfurtable with my sexuallity or my socail status. Just like not be able to talk about women issue could show that your not comfurtable with your body. btw LiouVille, gender is differant to sex.

oh, I finish this later or I'd trapt in work

Boston

I'm aware Gender and Sex are different things, I fail to see your point however as it relates to mine. I'm talking about something that is gender specific, however I never stated that all women have periods, In fact I think the sarcasm was pretty wrong on relevant posts.

MicraBoy

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

A very-obviously-a-lesbian tried to chat me up. Yes, I know when I'm being chatted up, just like you know when you're being chatted up. Not wanting the girl to feel like she's wasted her time or getting the wrong idea, I thought I'd ask her if she's a lesbian. Now, IT WAS OBVIOUS SHE WAS A LESBIAN and her reaction proved she was a lesbian. She got really angry with me.

Are you an idiot?

Sorry it's obvious you are an idiot, but none the less I feel compelled to ask.

Hang on a minute, does that make me an idiot too?

keynesian

Mikhail (bf) says duuuu says like she's a lisdian, sould likes your are lisbian.

I'm with Aoife, you can't get angery if some calls you lisbean or gay or str8. It's as silly as asking the question.

senordingdong

LiouVille wrote:

Really? Whats it like?

In fairness, no-one asked you what it's like to be gay.
Nor did Aoife ask the woman in question what it's like to be a lesbian.
She merely asked if she was a lesbian.