Why is it so offensive to ask a lesbian if she's a lesbian?

Rev Hellfire

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

Now, IT WAS OBVIOUS SHE WAS A LESBIAN and her reaction proved she was a lesbian. She got really angry with me.

While I still maintain that it is acceptable to ask someone if they're gay (or not) if you are unsure and it is relevant to the issue at hand.
You explicitly state now that is not the case, but rather you asked the question to create a confrontation and make the other woman feel uncomfortable. From where I’m standing it seems to me that the aggressor in this situation was you.

Boston

senordingdong wrote:

In fairness, no-one asked you what it's like to be gay.
Nor did Aoife ask the woman in question what it's like to be a lesbian.
She merely asked if she was a lesbian.

The whole premise presented here by aoife is that people should be comfortable answering personal questions to strangers. I think you missed that point.

Annasopra

Now, IT WAS OBVIOUS SHE WAS A LESBIAN and her reaction proved she was a lesbian. She got really angry with me.

How was it OBVIOUS?

How did her reaction prove anything?

A. The fact that she had to face the reality that she was a lesbian
B. The fact that I wasn't a lesbian

- which made her so angry?

Perhaps

C - she wan't a lesbian and wasn't chatting you up

senordingdong

LiouVille wrote:

The whole premise presented here by aoife is that people should be comfortable answering personal questions to strangers. I think you missed that point.

No, I get your point. I just disagree with it becasue it seems to be based on a personal opinion and not a fact.

Boston

senordingdong wrote:

No, I get your point. I just disagree with it becasue it seems to be based on a personal opinion and not a fact.

It's not my point, it's Aoife's. Try to keep up. Of coruse it's personal opinion as to whether or not it's a personal question. However, the only opinion that matters is the person being asked. You can say jsut because it's not a personal question for you, means it's not a personal question for them.

Personally I wouldn't be too pushed if someoen asked me if I had a period.

keynesian

LiouVille wrote:

However, the only opinion that matters is the person being asked. ......

Personally I wouldn't be too pushed if someoen asked me if I had a period.

On the peremusion that she was getting chatted up. Who wants to go out with some one with issues about there sexuality. And the question envoked a reaction high lighted a personality trate that I would find very unatractive. I would have considered a look of confusion or puzzulment more "normal".

Cake Fiend

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

IT WAS OBVIOUS SHE WAS A LESBIAN

Then why did you ask her?

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

there does seem to be a massive massive massive defensive thing going on (which - thank you very much - most of the posters have proven here in this topic.)

Shock, horror, if you attack someone, they get defensive! Who would have thought!!

monkey tennis

senordingdong wrote:

I don't think it's a personal question, and nor do alot of other people

Aoife-FM104 wrote:

I also agree that it's not a personal question. Please don't try to pass off personal opinions as fact.

It's got nothing to do with opinion, it's a matter of semantics. You are both confusing the word 'personal' with 'private' or 'intrusive'.

For example: asking someone their preference in music is a personal question. But it is (generally) not an intrusive question. Dictionaries are cheap, folks. Use 'em.

Boston

keynesian, so if someone asked you in your job if you where gay, you'd respond to that?

keynesian

Cake Fiend wrote:

Shock, horror, if you attack someone, they get defensive! Who would have thought!!

There is a big differance between challaging an Oppion or point of view and attacking someone. I quite like being challaged.

monkey tennis wrote:

It's got nothing to do with opinion, it's a matter of semantics. You are both confusing the word 'personal' with 'private' or 'intrusive'.

well if you want to talk semantics. It's matter of 'personal opoin' whether a question or statement is 'intrusive' or 'private'.

LiouVille wrote:

keynesian, so if someone asked you in your job if you where gay, you'd respond to that?

"Yes"

But they wouldn't need to ask caz I go on about Mikhail(bf) all the time. Mikhail was invite by my boss to come to the christmass party. I work in an office in garage. He got on well with all my co-workers.

monkey tennis

keynesian wrote:

well if you want to talk semantics. It's matter of 'personal opoin' whether a question or statement is 'intrusive' or 'private'.

Yup, precisely the point I made earlier on in the thread (when the OP seemed to be oblivious to the fact that someone else might find a question about their sexuality intrusive, because she didn't herself)

keynesian

monkey tennis wrote:

Yup, precisely the point I made earlier on in the thread (when the OP seemed to be oblivious to the fact that someone else might find a question about their sexuality intrusive, because she didn't herself)

It could be said that a personal opoin could be wrong. I beleave that the personal opoin that "gay life style is unnatural/'evil" is wrong and unhelpful.

Boston

keynesian wrote:

"Yes"

But they wouldn't need to ask caz I go on about Mikhail(bf) all the time. Mikhail was invite by my boss to come to the christmass party. I work in an office in garage. He got on well with all my co-workers.

Good for you, I'd tell them to piss off and mind their own business. Then again I wouldn't put it in the public domain in the first place.

senordingdong

LiouVille wrote:

It's not my point, it's Aoife's. Try to keep up. Of coruse it's personal opinion as to whether or not it's a personal question. However, the only opinion that matters is the person being asked. You can say jsut because it's not a personal question for you, means it's not a personal question for them.

Personally I wouldn't be too pushed if someoen asked me if I had a period.

I know who's points are who's, thanks.
And yes, I understand the meaning of an opinion.

So, the only opinion that matters is the opinion of the girl that was being asked. Ok, but then that doesn't make sense that she would make advances at someone, then get outraged at the question of her sexuality.
Unless it was some sort of asexual advance...and she was wanting some sort of asexual intercourse.

Boston

senordingdong wrote:

I know who's points are who's, thanks.
And yes, I understand the meaning of an opinion.

So, the only opinion that matters is the opinion of the girl that was being asked. Ok, but then that doesn't make sense that she would make advances at someone, then get outraged at the question of her sexuality.
Unless it was some sort of asexual advance...and she was wanting some sort of asexual intercourse.

Again you cannot take it for granted that she was making an advance. And even if she was, the Op has made it clear that she was only using the girls sexuality as a weapon of choice to spurn her advance, having no interest in the answer beyond it's ability to repell the the girl in question.

Take for instance I strike up a conversation at some sort of social gatthering in the near future. The person has a fair idea of my sexuality for what ever reason. They then get it into their head I'm coming onto them, and pop the question "Yea Gay or What like", only to be met with "what the **** has that got to do with anything". Please explain to me in what way am I the bad guy?

It's one thing when someone puts private and personal information about themselves in the public domain, like keynesian, it's another when people take it upon themselves to pry.

keynesian

LiouVille wrote:

Good for you, I'd tell them to piss off and mind their own business. Then again I wouldn't put it in the public domain in the first place.

Where do you work that you can get away with such agresive behavour? I under stand that each work place has it's work practices. But what do you do when the other are talking about there girlfriends/boyfriends, talk about your cat? My boyfriends are a big part of my life, and like to talk about them, and so do the other girls in the office. I would be a bit sheepish at first, I wouldn't do a daavid on it "I'm gay get over it".

keynesian

LiouVille wrote:

They then get it into their head I'm coming onto them, and pop the question "Yea Gay or What like", only to be met with "what the **** has that got to do with anything". Please explain to me in what way am I the bad guy? .

Sorry, but thats not "normal" reaction. When a "normal" person is ask an unusal or unformilar question, they do not explode, they ask for clarification or the rasinal behind the question. The person could be simple and have little understanding about what there saying. Or they may be new to the gay mating or courting richual or don't want to waist time if your not. There could be a 101 reasons why there asking the question. Plus in socail edicate, agresiveness is considered wores then ignorance

Sangre

keynesian wrote:

Sorry, but thats not "normal" reaction. When a "normal" person is ask an unusal or unformilar question, they do not explode, they ask for clarification or the rasinal behind the question. The person could be simple and have little understanding about what there saying. Or they may be new to the gay mating or courting richual or don't want to waist time if your not. There could be a 101 reasons why there asking the question. Plus in socail edicate, agresiveness is considered wores then ignorance

So if someone asked you 'hey hook nose, you a kike?', would you seek further clarification on the question or answer in a affirmative/negative manner and leave it at that?

keynesian

Sangre wrote:

So if someone asked you 'hey hook nose, you a kike?', would you seek further clarification on the question or answer in a affirmative/negative manner and leave it at that?

*perplected look*
Sorry, but what's a "kike" and do you really think my nose looks like a hook? oh, hello my name is johnny.


P.s. am I to understand that you think the term lebain is equal to a deragitry comment?

Boston

keynesian wrote:

*perplected look*
Sorry, but what's a "kike" and do you really think my nose looks like a hook? oh, hello my name is johnny.


P.s. am I to understand that you think the term lebain is equal to a deragitry comment?

So your there in a bar, and you try to come onto someone and they go, hey what are you Irish? No offensive in and of itself, but still used to attack.

keynesian

I know when I start this quoting I had a point. But I lost it, but I did realize there was a oportunity cost to me doing it. I could have been expanding my mind in the time that I read this theard. Maybe even do what I get paid to do.

azezil wrote:

No I'd say its more a fear of being lead down an ally and having the **** kicked outta you...

Stephanos wrote:

Why in this forum is the same illogical tripe always hashed out? It is so engrained in the Boards LGBT forum. Asking someone if they are gay is nothing like asking someone if they are straight.

MicraBoy wrote:

Believe it or not some people do get very defensive about the job they work in.

Anywho the analogy isn't accurate IMHO. Questions about sex or sexuality are not classed in the same bracket as general chit chat. Asking about her sexuality is more akin to asking does she like to have sex outdoors, than asking what she works at. With some people you'll get away with it, with others you won't. It's one of those questions you need to weigh up and see is it appropriate or not.

The whole other side is why you needed to know. Was it in any way relevent to you or the conversation? Or was she yapping away, while in your head all you could hear was yourself going "I wonder is she a lesbian? I must know if she is a lesbian!"

monkey tennis wrote:

By the way, the issue of sexuality is of far greater consequence to a lesbian than a straight girl. Your sexuality is probably not a big deal in your life - because it doesn't place you in a minority. You will probably never know what that feels like, so you will never be able to understand how a lesbian feels about her sexuality.

imagine if some random stranger asked you out of the blue if you're into BDSM

Verita wrote:

On this occasion it is quite obvious you were wrong to ask. Why else would she want to box the head off you?

claire h wrote:

You asking "are you a lesbian?" is saying that you perceive her as coming on to you, that you're not comfortable with her coming on to you, that you're not interested in her or other women in general, that you see her as Different (because you needed her to specify her sexual orientation).

monkey tennis wrote:

I doubt you'd find it appropriate if a man asked you 'do you suck dick' in

fozzle wrote:

My god, you're right, I have finally seen the light. It's just like, if a stranger asked you if you take it up the as5, and if you spit or swallow,

LiouVille wrote:

hey what are you Irish?

d4r3n wrote:

I think everyone has missed the most obvious question: Was she hot?

The last quote is possible the most valide point made.

How did this thread start, oh yes, "are you a lesbian?" Funny you might have thought she ask "do you eat babys?".

senordingdong

LiouVille wrote:

Again you cannot take it for granted that she was making an advance. And even if she was, the Op has made it clear that she was only using the girls sexuality as a weapon of choice to spurn her advance, having no interest in the answer beyond it's ability to repell the the girl in question.

Ok, I understand that, but I thought we were taking the OP at face value for the sake of debunking the myth in the thread title.
Also, why do you assume it was an attack on the other girl?

Take for instance I strike up a conversation at some sort of social gatthering in the near future. The person has a fair idea of my sexuality for what ever reason. They then get it into their head I'm coming onto them, and pop the question "Yea Gay or What like", only to be met with "what the **** has that got to do with anything". Please explain to me in what way am I the bad guy?

I don't think that would make you a bad guy, but we are under the impression the OP's encounter wasn't as civil as your proposed rebutal.

Boston

I wasn't really trying to rebuke anything, since the girl could have been offended by any one of a dozen things the OP did and say. The girl might well have been totally out of line in her reply, However, by the OP's own admission, the motivation for asking the question is merky at best, I don't think we can Aoifes story at face value.

What I don't get is why she couldn't have been direct about what she thought, and told the Girl she wasn't interested. That is what she thougth was happening right? Why there was a need to bring sexuality into it I don't know. I'd guess it was more of an attempt to make a statement about Aoifes own sexuality. It sends up a banner proudly claiming "I'm am no a blah blah".

Goodshape

LiouVille wrote:

What I don't get is why she couldn't have been direct about what she thought, and told the Girl she wasn't interested. That is what she thougth was happening right?

Ah, good point

I haven't agreed with you in this argument up until now, but I agree with that. The correct response to an unwanted advance is to communicate the fact that you're not interested. The OP bypassed that and basically said "oh, I'm sorry, are you different?".

But I still think starting a fight over it is an over reaction. I'd class it as a minor annoyance (mostly because then I'd know I'm not going to be getting any ).

senordingdong

LiouVille wrote:

the motivation for asking the question is merky at best, I don't think we can Aoifes story at face value.

It might have been merky but this is a huge grey area this days. She might not have known she was being merky. It's quite possible another gay girl would not have been offended by Aoife's rejection.

If a guy started chatting me up I'd explina to him that I'm not gay. I don't see how that is cause for offence but I do think harshly pointing out that I'm not interested would be insulting. I don't see why these matters have to be tip toed around.
And unfortunatly, I think some gay people perpetuate these stereotypical negativities by responding in manners that the OP experienced, which hugely damages societies acceptance of homosexuality.

Sangre wrote:

If you're referring to the defense of provocation I think you'll find its not exclusive to homosexuals.

Like this....I don't understand why you're assuming it was a provocation. Sounds to me like she was just trying to clear the air.

Sangre

I think you should re-read what I quoted.

senordingdong

I did, but was it not you earlier stating that the OP's question was a provocation?