My 13 year old arrested last night

frobisher

I see it as a very small in storm in a tiny tea cup but the arresting gaurd says that my son will be getting JLO for a public order offence(I'm not entirely certain what exactly this entails) and seems to be taking it pretty seriously. He said that 100 kids were hanging around in a park last night most of them older teens getting drunk and that the police were trying to disperse them (he conceded that my son wasn't drunk). At one point the gaurd told alot of them to go and if they didn't immediatley he'd arrest them, my son said he had to find his freind (whose mother was picking them up to get brought home) and the gaurd said not to say one more word and to leave immediately to which my son said he couldn't because he had to find his freind for his lift. To which the gaurd replied by arresting him. I honestly thought the gaurd would let it slide when I came down to the station but he seems to be taking this really seriously. He brought up a record where my son and his freinds have been caught throwing eggs from my back garden (it then transpired that the police found out about this by coming into my house when I wasn't here and without permission, which I don't like!).
Is there a way of stopping this going to on permanant record? Should I ring the gaurd? Or is his word final? I am the kind of person who strongly respects the police, I've even been told too much so, but this whole thing seems ridiculous. I actually took the eggs throwing thing very seriously and punished him heavily but an arrest for what happened last night just seems absurd!
Any thoughts welcome.
MODS: I've tried to avoid asking for actual legal advice here. If I need to edit just let me know.

Heinrich

So sonny got arrested. Do you really think that letting a 13 year old out unsupervised is a good idea? When they get away with their misconduct it is so very funny and bravado and when they get caught the crying starts.

So he didn't learn much from the egg episode, nor did you for that matter. Where were you when the Gardai called?

CiaranC

frobisher, posting on here is simply asking for a stream of idiots, like the one above, to admonish you for the normal behaiviour of a 13 year boy.

smcelhinney

Its very easy for everyone to jump on the "bad egg" bandwagon (sorry!), but unless everyone is like Heinrich and hyperjumped puberty to find himself suddenly 34, living in his one-bed flat opening a can of beans and settling down for an evening of Time Team, I think everyone empathises with you frobisher.

We all know what its like to be 13. I myself have a 15 year old brother, and I dont know where he goes to half the time. You end up asking yourself, is he doing the same things I was doing when I was 15? Or has teenage living progressed into something far more sinister? The only answer is you have to have a certain amount of trust that they know what they are doing. After all, you cannot shape a person at any age. You can influence, but underneath it all, you cant affect the psychology of a child/teenager.

Was your son telling the truth when he said he was waiting for a friend? Or was it bravado in the face of the Guards (spelling... tsk), a bit of non-conformism. Did he use foul/abusive language? If the gardai note a precedence (the egg-throwing incident) then they would obviously be inclined to judge him on this.

Consult a lawyer. But make sure that you are doing it for the right reasons. Make sure your son tells you the whole truth about the incident, and that its not just your motherly (or fatherly? idk..) rose-tinted glasses in play here..

You could end up pretty shame-faced if it is.

toodles..

Hellrazer

If I were you (and you sound like someone who does actually care about what your kids are up to,rather that some parents who dont give a s**t what their kids do) Id call to the station and ask for the arresting officer and if you get nowhere with him then ask for the Sergeant on duty.

Explain to him what happened and ask can you deal with the situation in your own way and that you will take responsibility for the kids behaviour.
Most of them appreciate the fact that you will handle it and will probably let it go.

Heinrich

smcelhinney wrote:

Its very easy for everyone to jump on the "bad egg" bandwagon (sorry!), but unless everyone is like Heinrich and hyperjumped puberty to find himself suddenly 34, living in his one-bed flat opening a can of beans and settling down for an evening of Time Team, I think everyone empathises with you frobisher.

We all know what its like to be 13. I myself have a 15 year old brother, and I dont know where he goes to half the time. You end up asking yourself, is he doing the same things I was doing when I was 15? Or has teenage living progressed into something far more sinister? The only answer is you have to have a certain amount of trust that they know what they are doing. After all, you cannot shape a person at any age. You can influence, but underneath it all, you cant affect the psychology of a child/teenager.

Was your son telling the truth when he said he was waiting for a friend? Or was it bravado in the face of the Guards (spelling... tsk), a bit of non-conformism. Did he use foul/abusive language? If the gardai note a precedence (the egg-throwing incident) then they would obviously be inclined to judge him on this.

Consult a lawyer. But make sure that you are doing it for the right reasons. Make sure your son tells you the whole truth about the incident, and that its not just your motherly (or fatherly? idk..) rose-tinted glasses in play here..

You could end up pretty shame-faced if it is.

toodles..

Oh dear me! Heinrich is a parent with two offspring both of whom were, surprisingly, teenagers at one point in their lives. Heinrich himself was also a teenager at one point!

Heinrich took responsibility for his children's actions and never felt the need to go looking for commiseration on a public bulletin board.

CiaranC

seriously, stfu and stop posting

Heinrich

Why should I do that?

Intelligent answers on a stamped addressed postcard to...

frobisher

Heinrich wrote:

Do you really think that letting a 13 year old out unsupervised is a good idea? When they get away with their misconduct it is so very funny and bravado and when they get caught the crying starts.

So he didn't learn much from the egg episode, nor did you for that matter. Where were you when the Gardai called?

To be honest no, I usually keep him chained up in the attic under CCTV surveilance after school and on the weekends but the ISPCC forced me to let him out without a chaperone or an electrical tagging device. I know, I was shocked and appalled too. And where was I Gardai called? In the pub getting drunk of couse.

Smelchinney wrote:

Was your son telling the truth when he said he was waiting for a friend?
Did he use foul/abusive language?

Completely telling the truth. I didn't want my son out too late considering the night that was in it so I allowed him to have 2 freinds back for a sleep over. One of their mums was to pick them up together from where they were and bring them back.
I asked the gaurd in the presence of my son if he had been cheeky and what he'd said. The gaurd just said that he told him not to say one word but that my son did say something. To which my son said he was just saying that he had to find his friend for his lift. The gaurd just nodded.

hellrazer wrote:

Explain to him what happened and ask can you deal with the situation in your own way and that you will take responsibility for the kids behaviour.
Most of them appreciate the fact that you will handle it and will probably let it go.

I reckon that's probably agreat idea.

whippet

A 13 year old causing mayhem on Halloween!! I'd never believe it.

To the OP, be 100% sure your son is telling you the truth. In a field of 100+ teenagers, mostly drunk your son was arrested for telling a guard that he is waiting on a lift. I personally would need more than a pinch of salt to believe this.

When I was in my mid teens, I did get involved in some mayhem, never really got caught but spun innocent little me to my mother when I was implicated. 'I was only in the wrong place at the wrong time ..etc'

On one of the busiest nights of the year for the emergancy services and especially the Guards dealing with Public Order issues I would have a huge problem believing your son's version of the truth, why would they waste their time on someone looking for a lift home?

The reality is, he will get a caution at best, the guards will know who he is. Following on from the egg throwing olympics, they will come down on him if he does decide in the next few years to step up a level of Public Dis-Orders, he will be the target.

There is no way out of it, but someone showing disrespect to guards at 13 will probably have less in two or three years time.

CiaranC

Heinreich wrote:

Why should I do that?

Because people love to be lectured by smug, sanctimonious twats.

Why dont you tell us how wonderfully you parented your 13 year old boys then. Tell us how they never climbed otherpeoples trees, trespassed, throw waterballoons or eggs, robbed apples, visited bonfires at halloween, flirted with shoplifting, broke windows playing football or were smart to their elders, because you are such a wonderful parent.

:rolleyes:

layke

Yup, but... if my mother/father was following me around at 13 to 'supervise me' I wouldn't have many friends at all nor would I have a stable mentality from being smothered.
I was trusted enough not to have a chip implanted into my neck to track my movements but that's just me. You simply cannot watch your kids 100% of the time as a parent Hendrich you should know that, no?

Frobisher, your son did nothing wrong, and the cop knows it. The cop won't push it as he knows he can do him for FA well maybe loitering if he can prove he had more then 2 mates with him.
As for the eggs, Afaik you have to go to court to remove such records from the Pulse Data Base but seeing as the Gardai illegally entered the premices without a warrent I believe you can challenge the eggs too.

For the park, your son wasn't drinking, was he there with people who were?

Why in the hell would a JLO be coming round to your house when there are many many more kids who need it then a kid who threw some eggs and was arrested for being near some drunk kids.

Jumpy

It seems a little over the top but the guards were fairly busy last night and I dont really think they are going to hang around and determine the real excuses from the smartarse ones. He was asked to move and he refused, I assume they didnt have time to mess around.
I doubt this will go too much further but I hope he learns from it. Yourself as well OP on the importance of keeping tabs on where your son is.
Make it clear to the Guards that you intend to punish him yourself (whether you do or not).
Whether people accept it or not (and I am sure I will get some smart replies about this) stereotyping is a big decider on how the guards react to you.
Just out of curiosity, was he wearing a hoodie and trainers, and did he have a close shaved hairstyle?

frobisher

Opinions are like farts, we all have them and they can be a bit smelly sometimes but most of us realise that they don't smell as nice to others as they do to ourselves. There's someone here who stinks.

Jumpy

layke wrote:

but seeing as the Gardai illegally entered the premices without a warrent I believe you can challenge the eggs too.

That is only for searching I believe. A warrant is not required to enter a premises for public order offenses.
Otherwise everyone would just hide in their house when the guards came.

frobisher

Jumpy wrote:

It seems a little over the top but the guards were fairly busy last night and I dont really think they are going to hang around and determine the real excuses from the smartarse ones. He was asked to move and he refused, I assume they didnt have time to mess around.
I doubt this will go too much further but I hope he learns from it. Yourself as well OP on the importance of keeping tabs on where your son is.
Make it clear to the Guards that you intend to punish him yourself (whether you do or not).
Whether people accept it or not (and I am sure I will get some smart replies about this) stereotyping is a big decider on how the guards react to you.
Just out of curiosity, was he wearing a hoodie and trainers, and did he have a close shaved hairstyle?

He was wearing a rugby top, doesn't have shaved hair in the slightest and looks about as un-tough as a 13 year old can!

Jumpy

frobisher wrote:

He was wearing a rugby top, doesn't have shaved hair in the slightest and looks about as un-tough as a 13 year old can!

In that case I wouldnt worry, it was probably a time issue. They couldnt leave him there and he wouldnt leave. Hence the arrest. Dont forget to mention that you intend to punish him yourself (not physically mind you, that will just make you sound bad, grounding is a start) it might make them go lighter on both of you.

letterman

CiaranC wrote:

Because people love to be lectured by smug, sanctimonious twats.

Jesus, who rattled your cage or do you always turn into a pompous wanker at halloween. Whats wrong with one parent expressing an opinion in a manner which just happens to run contrary to your beliefs / personal code of conduct.

As previously posted, on the busiest night of the year, some cop might have had a pain in his arse dealing with some time wasting young lad and decided to put some manners on him. If he already had form from egging people then maybe its a wake up call to cop on.

Heinrich

CiaranC wrote:

Because people love to be lectured by smug, sanctimonious twats.

Why dont you tell us how wonderfully you parented your 13 year old boys then. Tell us how they never climbed otherpeoples trees, trespassed, throw waterballoons or eggs, robbed apples, visited bonfires at halloween, flirted with shoplifting, broke windows playing football or were smart to their elders, because you are such a wonderful parent.

:rolleyes:

As I explained earlier, I took responsibility for my offspring and did not need to come whingeing on a public forum...

What might your credentials be in this respect?

Pansy Potter

I feel that on many occasions the Guards do a thankless job, seems they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If I was sitting in my home last night and it was adjacent to a field/green where 100 or more youths were congregated drinking I would be calling the Guards if not the Army. That size crowd is bad enough without it being Halloween as well. I would expect them to disperse the crowd using whatever means necessary, or load them in a van and give them a hiding that they wouldnt forget.

There are plenty of areas where the residents enjoy the benefit of a green space. Too often this green space is invaded by vandals and gurriers from other areas, as seems to be the case with the son of the OP. Why could he not have stayed near his own home rather than going somewhere that he needed to be driven to and from. Frankly I believe the OP needs a reality check; this kid has form.

And CiaranC you must write a book about parenting. You have such original ideas. No maybe you could write a book about everything. You seem to know so much about it.

delly

Its funny actually, i've only ever heard of JLO's been assigned to better classes of families. I think real scumbags just give them the two fingers. Anyhow none of this will be on a permanent record and I believe only exists at the local station but I could be wrong on that one.

Hobbes

Look at it from the gards perspective. They have no idea that this 13 year old actually has a friend or not and depending on the tone could of come as just being a twat. If anything refusing to do what a guard says is challanging the guard and impeding them to do thier job.

The fact also that they even bothered to file a report for egg throwing means that your kid or the ones that were with them were acting the dick enough to piss off the guards in question.

dermot_sheehan

frobisher wrote:

I see it as a very small in storm in a tiny tea cup but the arresting gaurd says that my son will be getting JLO for a public order offence(I'm not entirely certain what exactly this entails) and seems to be taking it pretty seriously. He said that 100 kids were hanging around in a park last night most of them older teens getting drunk and that the police were trying to disperse them (he conceded that my son wasn't drunk). At one point the gaurd told alot of them to go and if they didn't immediatley he'd arrest them, my son said he had to find his freind (whose mother was picking them up to get brought home) and the gaurd said not to say one more word and to leave immediately to which my son said he couldn't because he had to find his freind for his lift. To which the gaurd replied by arresting him. I honestly thought the gaurd would let it slide when I came down to the station but he seems to be taking this really seriously. He brought up a record where my son and his freinds have been caught throwing eggs from my back garden (it then transpired that the police found out about this by coming into my house when I wasn't here and without permission, which I don't like!).

Look at Part IV of the Children's Act 2001 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA24Y2001.html

If they were in the back garden, the guards didn't need a warrant to enter. Even if they were inside the house itself, the guards can enter without a warrant if they see a criminal offence being committed (in this case either assault or criminal damage.

Is there a way of stopping this going to on permanant record? Should I ring the gaurd? Or is his word final? I am the kind of person who strongly respects the police, I've even been told too much so, but this whole thing seems ridiculous. I actually took the eggs throwing thing very seriously and punished him heavily but an arrest for what happened last night just seems absurd!

It depends what you mean by criminal record. There will be no conviction noted since he has not been convicted of anything. The garda pulse system however will have the details of the arrest and Juvenile Diversion Program (just as it had details of the egg throwing incident).

frobisher

gabhain7 wrote:

Look at Part IV of the Children's Act 2001 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA24Y2001.html

If they were in the back garden, the guards didn't need a warrant to enter. Even if they were inside the house itself, the guards can enter without a warrant if they see a criminal offence being committed (in this case either assault or criminal damage.



It depends what you mean criminal record. There will be no conviction noted since he has not been convicted of anything. The garda pulse system however will have the details of the arrest and Juvenile Diversion Program (just as it had details of the egg throwing incident).

Great responses, unlike some of the above.
Thanks.

hullaballoo

Ladies, put away the handbags please.

Overheal

Im a 19 year old adolescent. Hi. I would just like to start with 'damn, there are a lot of children in here.' that wasn't intended for everyone; but you know who you are

Ahem.

-So, how much time was placed between the Public Park Offence and the Eggs?

-If the gard conceds your son was Sobre (ah, he'll learn, he'll learn...) then what Public Order Offence is he charged with, specifically? Not that they can charge you for being drunk in a puclic area anyway (just drinking there).

From what I hear, the officer had as much reason to arrest your boy as he did some old lady walking her dog, who may/may not have been told to shove off, you know?
Sadly though, he was failing to comply with a directive :? Im just flabbergasted that they would still be so cheesed about it. But y'know, Gards aren't renown for patience

-As far as parenting goes, I applaud you sir; on the silver lining, he's clearly making lots of friends!

-Street smarts though, at least your son has learned another life lesson on conventional society: Next time, he'll probably more willing to bolt, and then go find a phone to get a hold of somebody such as yourself (but don't feel hurt if its not you: that just means he doesnt want you worried...or hes scared you'll kill him, its real case-sensitive )

-Finally: its the best kind of parent that will stand up when their kid needs them, and I'm glad I was so lucky as well when I got detained (Consequently; never trust Sole-Traders during the Christmas season )

digweed

Overheal wrote:

From what I hear, the officer had as much reason to arrest your boy as he did some old lady walking her dog, who may/may not have been told to shove off, you know?
Sadly though, he was failing to comply with a directive :? Im just flabbergasted that they would still be so cheesed about it. But y'know, Gards aren't renown for patience

he directed the young lad to go and he didn't, what more do you want??? this is one of the busiest nights of the year for emergency services, why should the Guard have shown any patience??? i'm sure the people living around this park would have been very impressed to have seen the Gardai just walk away from the gang standing there and not doing anything. its typical of this forum Guard does something and he is lambasted for it, there would've been plenty of posts if he hadn't done anything!!!

D.

frobisher

digweed wrote:

he directed the young lad to go and he didn't, what more do you want??? this is one of the busiest nights of the year for emergency services, why should the Guard have shown any patience??? i'm sure the people living around this park would have been very impressed to have seen the Gardai just walk away from the gang standing there and not doing anything. its typical of this forum Guard does something and he is lambasted for it, there would've been plenty of posts if he hadn't done anything!!!

D.

I understand your point about the gaurds getting a hard time, I sympathise completely with them. But the problem I see is that my son quite simply didn't know what else to do, he had to find his freind to get a lift and was 3 miles from home with no money to get home otherwise. It's a bit of a catch 22.

Turner

delly wrote:

Its funny actually, i've only ever heard of JLO's been assigned to better classes of families. I think real scumbags just give them the two fingers. Anyhow none of this will be on a permanent record and I believe only exists at the local station but I could be wrong on that one.

Alot of the worst scumbags can not be dealt with under the JLO system, they are red starred and can be prosecuted in court (juvenile court).


To the OP your son should have known that if a Garda tells him to move he has to move and do it immediately, especially in the situation where he is part of a 100 strong rowdy croud.

I presume he was arrested for...
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA2Y1994S8.html

Overheal

Oh, I can't say there was much your son, or the officer could do about the situation: it was gonna happen the way it did. But what I mean is why (now that it said and done) are they still trying to pan-fry him?

Billiejo

frobisher wrote:

I see it as a very small in storm in a tiny tea cup but the arresting gaurd says that my son will be getting JLO for a public order offence(I'm not entirely certain what exactly this entails) and seems to be taking it pretty seriously. He said that 100 kids were hanging around in a park last night most of them older teens getting drunk and that the police were trying to disperse them (he conceded that my son wasn't drunk). At one point the gaurd told alot of them to go and if they didn't immediatley he'd arrest them, my son said he had to find his freind (whose mother was picking them up to get brought home) and the gaurd said not to say one more word and to leave immediately to which my son said he couldn't because he had to find his freind for his lift. To which the gaurd replied by arresting him. I honestly thought the gaurd would let it slide when I came down to the station but he seems to be taking this really seriously. He brought up a record where my son and his freinds have been caught throwing eggs from my back garden (it then transpired that the police found out about this by coming into my house when I wasn't here and without permission, which I don't like!).
Is there a way of stopping this going to on permanant record? Should I ring the gaurd? Or is his word final? I am the kind of person who strongly respects the police, I've even been told too much so, but this whole thing seems ridiculous. I actually took the eggs throwing thing very seriously and punished him heavily but an arrest for what happened last night just seems absurd!
Any thoughts welcome.
MODS: I've tried to avoid asking for actual legal advice here. If I need to edit just let me know.

The truth is that some kids are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Backchat to police can end up as you describe.
This wont "end up on a permenent record" The next time may.
Police can enter property /premises to investigate a complaint but cant search without a warrent.

DublinEvents

That gardai is obviously being an idiot. Your son had a perfectly valid reason for not leaving and the arresting officer should actually have helped him find his friend if he was a nice person. I would file a complaint against him if I were you.

dermot_sheehan

DublinEvents wrote:

That gardai is obviously being an idiot. Your son had a perfectly valid reason for not leaving and the arresting officer should actually have helped him find his friend if he was a nice person. I would file a complaint against him if I were you.

File a complaint?

What the garda did was perfectly lawful. Under s. 8 of the Public Order Act if you fail to disperse when directed by a garda you face arrest and up to 635 euro fine and/or 6 months in prison.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA2Y1994S8.html

At 13 he is above the age of criminal responsibility

padser

gabhain7 wrote:

File a complaint?

What the garda did was perfectly lawful. Under s. 8 of the Public Order Act if you fail to disperse when directed by a garda you face arrest and up to 635 euro fine and/or 6 months in prison.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA2Y1994S8.html

At 13 he is above the age of criminal responsibility

#

I agree.

As most regular posters here will probably know its very seldom that I will agree with anything the gaurds do, but in this situation, when guards find a group of young teenagers drinking in the park together they are entitled in my opinion to treat them all as scumbags. Your child shouldnt have been there, (imo you as a parent should have known where he was [age 13 - 1 year out of primary school!]) so if you shuld be giving a bollocking to anyone its the child, and to be honest you should take a long look at yourself in the mirror.

SimpleSam06

frobisher wrote:

but the ISPCC forced me to let him out without a chaperone or an electrical tagging device.

I think its fairly obvious who's to blame for this mess. If no one will hold the ISPCC responsible for their actions, what will this country come to? Next thing we'll have children running around without LoJack anklets! I don't know about anyone else here, but I've had enough!

Hissing Sideban

I brought my fourteen year old daughter to the shop and had to park around the corner while I was waiting for her. When she was leaving, she started talking to some of her friends who were hanging around outside.
Two gardai stopped and told them to move on. Two of her friends asked her if they could get a lift home and she told to wait till she'd asked me.
When she went back to get them, them one of the Gardai brought her aside and asked if she had bee drinking. She said no, however he proceeded in breathalysing her in the street and argueing over green crystals in the bag.
When she told him I was waiting for her, the other gardai (a female gardai)told him to leave her only and that everything was fine.
I rang the gardai station the following day and asked why this had happened,
I was informed that they had no record of it happening, they were supposed to have electronic breathalyser and that it was probably a new young over excited gardai who found a few old breathalsyer left in the car and decided to use them. When I asked for the names of the Gardai the duty sergeant told me they was a mix up with the roster and he could not give me the names. What should I do
And no my daughter had not been drinking
All advise welcome