Death Metal - Does Anyone Genuinely Like This?

empirix

Karl Hungus wrote:

I will call you ignorant, because that's exactly what you are being.

The impression I'm getting from you is that because you were into it back in the day and since grew out of it, everyone else must come to the same logical conclusion, or therefor they are angsty teenagers. :rolleyes:



Thanks for displaying your ignorance, it's not song lyrics at all.

Well if you take about up to about 60+ mates/various band mates/metal heads that i still know, the vast majority bar about 2 or 3 who grew out of it, well then yeah and those 2 or 3 wouldn't even listen to death metal nowadays


Ignorance at what i called lyrics, maybe there, but whatever it is/where it comes from. its total b****x

End of discussion for me
Bye now

It wasn't me!

Buh bye! *waves*

Karl Hungus

empirix wrote:

Well if you take about up to about 60+ mates/various band mates/metal heads that i still know, the vast majority bar about 2 or 3 who grew out of it, well then yeah and those 2 or 3 wouldn't even listen to death metal nowadays

So your group of friends are representative of everyone now are they?

I'd give my experience to the contrary with the many people I know, but what would that prove other than your particular group of friends became disinterested in death metal for whatever reasons.

Using group numbers to justify anything is sheer idiotic at best. What if your 60+ mates (God you're a popular one, aren't you? :rolleyes: ) decided to pull a Heaven's Gate job and preform mass-suicide. What exactly do you think that would prove? Bar their stupidity, nothing.

RazielDoomgate

gesus man.. i accualy that quote quite interesting but then my taste seems to differ from yours as reading your comments...

i have been listing to the heavy stuff for a good 5years now, while i still my be young im not at all a "angery teen" , hates sociatiy, only hangs with fellow metalers etc etc..
the fast majority of my friends dont like this music so what makes me diffent?
the stuff i normaly listen to is opeth, at the gates, moonsorrow, geasa, Borknagar etc.
the best way i seem to discribe why i like it the thumping drums the creative keyboard/guitar sounds and the primal sound of vocals

music is ment to deal with every instance of life but why are teh "dark/evil" not in teh "popluar music" back only 50-70 years ago people would kill/bucture their lifestock and then cook it. thers noting wrong about it. but its seen as wrong in mordern sociaty (sry if im getting too deep)

i feel there is diffently somthing tribal or primal about this music that can bring us back to our roots (very evident in irish or finnish metal)

so what if ppl have grown out of it.. doesnt meen every one will or does and again thats like saying why is an adult watching cartoons (anime/adult humor)

end piont is thers nothing wrong with the music it is an artform that is like by many old and young. you seem to me like a person that only liked metal for a sort period of time like while it was in fashion a couple of years ago, quote from "Metal headbangers journy" : "yeah i was in to slayer one summer, who says that?"

buck65

Man you are talking alot of rubbish. I was well into DM as a teen and actually lost track of all metal thereafter to discover other genres: indie, jazz, grind core, Mike Patton's projects etc. However recently I have got back into it and realise it is one of the top genres out there. Listening to my old Morbid Angel albums and new Opeth stuff it can't be topped for energy, aggression, technical ability. Of course idiots like Glen Benton are out there talking rubbish but there is alot of good stuff too. I would love to hear what band you were in, but just because you didn't see through your convictions get off your high horse. P.S I'm 33.

o1s1n

"I grew out of X type of music, therefore you have to too"

How annoying is that?
I stopped listening to metal, not because I grew out of it, or reached an age where I "no longer found it appropriate". It just started grating on me and i wanted to listen to something different.

As for the "Adults can be angry too comment". Sure. I agree with that. But they can do it in a more original and interesting way, example, Bill Hicks. This whole "i'm angry therefore I must growl" thing is a little too straightforward and clichéd for me to be honest. Don't get me started on all the Satanic imagery and unreadable type font on album covers. :rolleyes: Okay I know Bill Hicks incorporates growling into his whole "Goatboy" act but that's a totally different story :P

No music can be called silly? are you insane? you find Eminem grabbing his penis every three lyrics to be a deep and meaningful expression of art? Cradle of Filth draped in corpse paint can be taken in any other way the as a joke?

Wow look at me, I'm rambling. I guess we all just have a different taste in music. Some are just harder to understand then others.

Karl Hungus

o1s1n wrote:

As for the "Adults can be angry too comment". Sure. I agree with that. But they can do it in a more original and interesting way, example, Bill Hicks. This whole "i'm angry therefore I must growl" thing is a little too straightforward and clichéd for me to be honest. Don't get me started on all the Satanic imagery and unreadable type font on album covers. :rolleyes: Okay I know Bill Hicks incorporates growling into his whole "Goatboy" act but that's a totally different story :P

Hmm, what "I'm angry therefor I must growl" thing are you on about? Anger and an extreme vocal style aren't mutually exclusive you know?

If you've ever listened to Opeth in interviews or anything, you'd see that they're anything but angry. I even remember Mikael was asked in an interview about why he does the Death Metal vocals, and he replied with something about how he just loves doing it.

I will get you started on the whole satanic imagery thing though, because this seems to be nothing more than a very selective reason to bash DM. Very few bands off the top of my head have a satanic image, Deicide being one, but when I look at bands like the aforementioned Opeth, Death, Meshuggah, Cryptopsy, Atheist, or just about any band that isn't Deicide, I just see some blokes with long hair, or sometimes short hair. They could just as easily be into any other form of Rock or Metal.

Hell, Cryptopsy are just as happy to head out and play in their Umbro gear, and that doesn't stop them from being one hell of a Death Metal band.

o1s1n

Karl Hungus wrote:

Hmm, what "I'm angry therefor I must growl" thing are you on about? Anger and an extreme vocal style aren't mutually exclusive you know?

If you've ever listened to Opeth in interviews or anything, you'd see that they're anything but angry. I even remember Mikael was asked in an interview about why he does the Death Metal vocals, and he replied with something about how he just loves doing it.

You know, I can see you're trying to make a point here. But then I listen to a Death Metal band and your point is just lost on me. All I'm hearing is someone trying to sound angry and dark. Perhaps they're not actually angry. I don't know. But that's what I'm hearing. I'm not really one for totally reading into lyrics/meaning behind music to try and get a band. I mainly interpret them by what i hear. If i don't like what i hear, I don't see any reason into trying to justify listening to it by reading its background.

Okay, perhaps the the imagery might not always be "satanic", but they still go for the whole evil thing. Eg; Cryptopsy;

http://www.metal-observer.com/covers/cov3707.jpg

Which to be honest, no matter what you say, is unbelievably clichéd and repetitive.

Anyway, I'm not going to continue as I really don't have enough knowledge about the subject to even attempt to. I simply wondered how people could access this starting off, as i certainly couldn't.
Maybe it's something you can grow to love. But I cant see any reason for me *wanting* to put any more effort into trying.

RazielDoomgate

i belive my first taste of metal that i enjoyed was the offspring (punk) since then i have gone looking/finding heavier stuff though while growing up i didnt enjoy listening to korn, silpknot etc as my friends did. (they all like indie now and im the one that likes death/black)

that image you posted is a painting from the renaissance depicting the severd head of judas forgive as ive forgothen the artist.
are you saying that the image is evil? for all we know it could be "rejoice the traitor is dead"

i know this is getting a little off topic but the whole satanic imagery and the cult have seemd to become part of the whole genre of metal. metalic arnt death metal and they had a cruifix upside down for one of their tours, so did judas priest aswel.

have you ever looked apon the works of H.R. Giger? his painting and sculptures all have some dark feeling to them but hes not evil he just loves doing those paintings.

this art form like all art forms is going to find some resentment or even discust but i have found form experinces that this is out of ignorance, resenently i had abouse shouted at me from a teacher in my school for studying/looking at art. in the last few months i have been studying and drawing from the artist Schiele the image that gave offence was a naked women touching herself. i found this to be pure igorance as she didnt understand this was jsut art.

same as deathmetal. if you cant understand why cant you just leave it alone and let the people that do undertand it do their thing.

gone way off topic... sry

It wasn't me!

Isn't that the head of John the Baptist?

Karl Hungus

o1s1n wrote:

Which to be honest, no matter what you say, is unbelievably clichéd and repetitive.

In fairness, the albums covers from almost every facet of Metal is probably clichéd and repetitive. I don't see why this is anything to do with Death Metal in particualr.

I think you're simply looking for reasons to dislike Death Metal. First you critisized it for being Satanic, which is not true, now it's something to do with it being "Dark"? So what? Most Metal is darkly themed.

You got a problem with darkness in Metal, tell it to Black Sabbath.

o1s1n

Yes I am aware of what the painting is of.Using an image of a beaded John the Baptist is hardly subtle. Its extremely dark. Evil was a bad word to chose.

On a side note, I'd hardly call Giger's work evil. Although I'm sure some people would. It IS steeped in the occult however. Just look at his Necronomicon! Or even his Tarot set.

Why didn't you use a less explicit Egon Schiele image? Surely you were looking for some kind of a rouse out of the teacher by selecting that one :P

o1s1n

Karl Hungus wrote:

I think you're simply looking for reasons to dislike Death Metal. First you critisized it for being Satanic, which is not true

Firstly, I did not criticize it for being Satanic, I said it used Satanic imagery. Clichéd Satanic imagery. On its covers and in its lyrics. I found this corny. Not offensive and Satanic. I'm not some anti Satanic activist. What makes it even cornier is when a band takes that serious. Or even the whole "we're angsty/moody" thing seriously. Which i find childish. Childishness is not something I look for in music.

Anyway, I'm off to listen to some Rush. It may be corny, but Christ, it's possible to listen to without developing a headache. Well, for me anyway

Shiminay

Some great posts here, especially PlatonicDisease' - are you a DM shill?

I'm 28 now and I do find that I'm sometimes less inclined to listen to as much DM as I might once have done. It's not that I've "grown out" of it, it's that given the linear nature of time, I have heard/been exposed to other things since becoming a DM fan - my tastes are wider and more varied but still rooted in metal.

I once made a post (I think - I meant to, I can remember it in my head kinda...) about becoming a fan of metal and I said I found it logical to start with something like Thrash as it summed up the basic feelings behind a lot of metal. I then offered that Death Metal offered the next logical step as it was challenging to the ear as well as the brain - let me clarify that statement. It's not easy to pick out the individual instruments at first (I found and I have a slightly musical background). Yor ear does develop to hear the music in a different way. The challenge to the brain is not in deciphering the lyrics or anything as mundane as that, but it's to start thinking about extreme music (all music tbh) in different ways and if you needed/wanted it as an emotional release for whatever good or bad in your life a that time, finding out "where to next?" This of course isn't a stage in your musical life that's unique to metal, but you started to listen to metal for a reason - you may as well discover if it's *really* for you

To those who "grow out of it" I hope they took with them what they needed, but whilst it can be fun to look back on your youth and laugh (I'll never forget my 2-Unlimited phase :rolleyes::D), it's unfair to brand everyone else a muppet or whatever cause they didn't change their minds (empirix!). One might commend them for their vision for choosing the right thing for them so early on You never dared tell us which metal band you were in that so famously played support to Carcass (if someone else knows, please enlighten us).

empirix

I didn't call him a muppet, i called him a clown and looking at his posts a clown that contradicts himself a lot and a mr know it all - he knows jack s""t
Dooms Game

Karl Hungus

Empirix, if you want to continue to post on this forum, you might want to cut out the abuse from your posting style.

o1s1n wrote:

Firstly, I did not criticize it for being Satanic, I said it used Satanic imagery. Clichéd Satanic imagery. On its covers and in its lyrics. I found this corny. Not offensive and Satanic. I'm not some anti Satanic activist. What makes it even cornier is when a band takes that serious. Or even the whole "we're angsty/moody" thing seriously. Which i find childish. Childishness is not something I look for in music.

Anyway, I'm off to listen to some Rush. It may be corny, but Christ, it's possible to listen to without developing a headache. Well, for me anyway

Fine fine, Satanic Imagery... Whatever you said, my point still stands that such imagery has been around in Heavy Metal before Death Metal.

Bands like Black Sabbath used such imagery, so did the likes of Mercyful Fate, Celtic Frost, Venom, and so on. Iron Maiden used plenty of such imagery, such as albums like Number Of The Beast. Don't get me started on how much satanic imagery Slayer have used over the years. I could go on, but I'm sure if you've any experience in Metal at all, you'd know perfectly well that satanic imagery is typical of many subgenres of Metal.

None of the imagery you're criticising the Death Metal genre for is unique it. The fact is, the imagery isn't even typical of it!

If we're dealing with stereotypes, then what's typical of Death Metal is this sort of imagery. It's far more inspired by Zombie, Cannibal and various other Horror Movies, rather than specifically satanic. There's plenty of bands who have gore-related lyrics and albums covers, and the fact is that they don't take themselves all that seriously. I've seen Gorotted, and the guys were just having a laugh. The fact is, the whole gore side of things, it's very tongue in cheek.

Now that of course doesn't include the bands within the genre that quite rapidly evolved, creating music that was far more complex, technical, progressive and overall took a far less tongue in cheek aproach to lyrical content. Bands like Death, Atheist, Cynic, aswell as many others took the extremity of the genre to more experimental and unique places.

The fact is, a lot of Death Metal bands have incredibly complex music, time signiatures, song structures, dynamics and textures. It's quite like Kharn said, in that the music can be challenging. I believe this was already posted, but I'll post it again, because without the vocals, it gives a very good idea of Death Metal, the extremity of it, the energy. You've asked about the appeal, well that's it. It's probably the exact same reason I love the song YYZ.


I have to ask though, exactly what Death Metal bands have you heard before? Because this whole "Satanic" and "Angsty/Moody" crap you're talking about, I just don't see it in any of the DM bands I've mentioned above. Apart from Deicide, what have you listened to?

Froot

Karl Hungus wrote:

It attracts me because of the very powerfull and energy driven sound.

I'll give you more an idea of some of the bands I'd be into:

http://www.myspace.com/morbidangelmusic

What you were saying about energy is why I like to listen to Soundgarden and ISIS and bands like that. I love the way some bands sound as though they are really driving out their sound.

I personally am not a fan of death metal but I dont scoff at other peoples tastes any more since I started broadening my own tastes. Death metal appeals to some and not to others.

I do enjoy being someone who listens to all kinds of music but doesn't necessarily follow the style and potentially lifestyle of that kind of music. Meaning I dont dress in black because I listen to metal etc. I started out listening to bands like the fun lovin criminals and rage against the machine and things like that and my interest in music grew from there. I still sit down and listen to those bands but I also love bands like Snub (Memories In Richter being the only album I have heard by them) which really gets me going. Anything with feeling is good in my eyes. I mean even Tori Amos songs sometimes sound good to me. Electronic music is also a huge part of my interest in music. I think that people like Scot Project, Morlack and Yoji Biomehanika do make very powerful music and I'm the first to say I used to hate that kind of music until I listened to the stuff that was right for me.

I think the only kind of music I cannot listen to is punk, ska, and thrash metal (except whatever Metallica is covered by that). It just absolutely wrecks my head.

By the way the old bassist from Morbid Angel is actually a very nice guy. Myself and a friend got chatting to him one day in a restaurant. Small world. I remember he was so surprised that I had heard of Morbid Angel, though I admitted to him I had never listened to them.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Karl Hungus wrote:

The fact is, the whole gore side of things, it's very tongue in cheek.

GWAR come to mind.

Sofaspud

o1s1n wrote:

Anyway, I'm off to listen to some Rush. It may be corny, but Christ, it's possible to listen to without developing a headache. Well, for me anyway

When I started listening to Rush, I would have considered the vocals fairly extreme. It's not _quite_ as extreme as death metal vocals, but it's all relative, really.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone who wasn't aware of Rush saw this:

They'd think it was something satanic.

I'm not a fan of Death Metal, by the way, just pointing out the relativity of it.

cournioni

empirix wrote:

No - only young angry teenagers or young adulkts listen to it, however the majority of these will get sense one day and find happiness and think nah its a load of codswallop really!

Wow! This post really has opened up my eyes. Apparently I am an angry young adult... :rolleyes:

empirix

Karl Hungus wrote:

Empirix, if you want to continue to post on this forum, you might want to cut out the abuse from your posting style.



?

And what about your abusive style!

brianthebard

Pugsley wrote:

I'd argue that, some power metal stuff is simply too rediculous to be taken in any way seriously, special note to the likes of Sabaton or Terásbetoni, granted their probably my favourite 2 power metal bands, but thats because of their rediculous sillyness (cant listen to death/black all day every day, a bit of cheese is a good change of pace).

Perhaps its not meant to be taken seriously in the strictest sense. Personally I haven't listened to much Death metal, but I've found my tastes over the past year or two moving towards more aggressive/intense/extreme music as I listened to more metal and compilation cd's especially. I was listening to Dying Fetus earlier and it was definitely more appealing to me than it was three-four years ago when a friend originally lent me his cd's.

It wasn't me!

empirix: You're not winning friends by your claims that a whole thread full of people who enjoy death metal, on a forum populated by a lot of people who love and listen to death metal, are somehow jaded youth who will grow up, because you say so. I don't like it personally, and have found your style to be quite aggressive and condescending, and very unfriendly. You seem to scoff at death metal's listeners with every post, and I'm a very happy person, so not sure how growing up and finding happiness, as you so kindly put it, is going to stop me liking an art form. All else aside, Hungus has been more reasonable, but for sheer pragmatism's sake, he's the mod, with the ban button, perhaps best not to antagonise him further.

Shiminay

Probably bitter cause his old band never made it tbh...

It wasn't me!

Kharn wrote:

Probably bitter cause his old band never made it tbh...

Oh come on, there's a bear there, you could have walked right past, but you saw a convenient stick and just couldn't resist a good poking, could you?

Shiminay

I like to poke things...

Ph3n0m

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Wow! This post really has opened up my eyes. Apparently I am an angry young adult... :rolleyes:

well if you are an angry young adult, does that make me an angry old man

Pugsley

Ph3n0m wrote:

well if you are an angry young adult, does that make me an angry old man

Your too old to be angry, so your just a grumpy old man, sorry

Doctor J

empirix wrote:

I didn't call him a muppet, i called him a clown and looking at his posts a clown that contradicts himself a lot and a mr know it all - he knows jack s""t
Dooms Game

Digs? Or should we say Sub-X?

m_stan

buck65 wrote:

Man you are talking alot of rubbish. I was well into DM as a teen and actually lost track of all metal thereafter to discover other genres: indie, jazz, grind core, Mike Patton's projects etc. However recently I have got back into it and realise it is one of the top genres out there. Listening to my old Morbid Angel albums and new Opeth stuff it can't be topped for energy, aggression, technical ability. Of course idiots like Glen Benton are out there talking rubbish but there is alot of good stuff too. I would love to hear what band you were in, but just because you didn't see through your convictions get off your high horse. P.S I'm 33.

Same applies to me. Was into thrash and death metal when I was a teenager, and now (around 15 years on) I've realised that I still love it. Bands like Death, Morbid Angel, Obituary, Entombed, Carcass. In the meantime I went on to discover every other conceivable type of music. So I guess I now feel 'qualified' to appreciate Death Metal. I, like others have said, like it for the fast-tempo, agressiveness, and some truly amazing musical talent. You also have to get a kick out of the themes, song titles, and album covers. Necrotism Descanting The Insalubrious, by Carcass comes to mind right away !

Honestly, when I first started listening to DM, it was after a few years of listening to thrash, and I didnt like the vocal style at all. It was only after presisting and realising that the music was so damn amazing that I realised the vocals weren't that bad at all and quite fit the music.

The first three pages of this thread were great reading. Pity empirix had to lower the tone. Your argument that people will grow out of this type of music could have some basis, and everyones opinion is valid - it's just the way you went about it that sucked.

Oh, and thanks all for all the recommendations. I'm going to be doing some discovering ...

PlatonicDisease

I'm aware that many among us on these fantastic message boards are not equally fantastic spellers. But hey, m_stan, could you seriously refer to "thrash" metal as "trash"? That can't be an endearing nickname for such a supreme brand of metal music, can it??... And lemme point out that you are certainly not the first fan I've encountered that curiously chooses to misspell 'thrash' as 'trash' in text. Non-fans could be forgiven for pouncing at you guys for calling something 'trash' when you really don't consider it to be so..

Regarding the opinion about a guy 'growing out' of his passion for DM, I reckon that is an oddly feeble attempt at condscension. The contention that DM's appeal is somehow confined to irrationally angst-ridden, frustrated, cynical, overly bellicose young 'white'?? males is as specious and ludicrous as suggesting that mainstream 'pop' music, for instance, is only loved by starry-eyed teen girls and 'girlie' men. DM's core popularity is surprisingly diffused among (admittedy a majority) of men of all ages and backgrounds. I'm 30/white male/Australian and have been loving DM since I was 17. But I'm personally aware of many more men AND women, quite a bit older than I am currently, who still listen to and like DM nearly as much as they did when they first discovered it at whatever stage of their lives. I have more respect for them and certainly greater taste and sense than to suggest that they are a bunch of young-to-middle age folks that are really only juvenile and idiotic lot to still like DM when they should have naturally 'grown out' of it ages ago. Besides, I mean personal musical tastes can be, indeed mostly are, not only truly diverse but almost by nature very changeable. Sure, there must be many men and women that started off liking DM, but then for whatever reason not staying there for long enough and heading to other musical territory that they realized they liked a lot better. No drama about that. I can’t imagine how that would make it imperative for every self-respecting DM fan from doing the same, i.e. loving and then leaving DM. I reckon suggestions of 'growing out' of DM where the implication is that this is inevitable as you age, mature, 'mellow' in personality and somehow shed all your youthful anger and aggression is utter clap-trap at best. While DM undoubtedly deals with the much darker, more grave, often gorier aspects of our lives, the genre is also famed for its signature stark 'realism', stridently extremist styles, artistic complexity and above all, astoundingly brilliant all-round musicianship. Now one might not quite see it all that way and fair enough, death metal was probably not meant to be Everyman's metal, anyway. It still remains more or less a strongly 'niche' metal genre that despite steadily coming out of the 'underground' and gaining wider mainstream acceptability and popularity in the mid-to-late '90s, was never abandoned by a majority of its original, earliest and most devoted fans (myself included)

So I'd argue that it's a gross misrepresentation to peculiarly portray DM as just another sexy 'trend' or passing 'fad' that a typical metal fan simply, eventually 'grows out' of with time as he does his youth and 'misguided' anger and aggression. Flat-out untrue and there's a lot more to a true DM fan's passions and personality than that ignorant, patronising, asinine jibe would have us believe.