Bohs Vs Shels Replay

Huggles

Apparently this fixture is due to be replayed after the Jason McGuinness fiasco. Its fascinating that Ollie Byrne always gets the decisions from the League. :rolleyes:

MrJoeSoap

Have seen it on messageboards but nowhere official yet. Suppose he took the standpoint regarding the Ireland under-21 game a few years back.

Still, the FAI are a joke and the league is a laughing stock.

John_C

Terrible decision. Can Dundalk now expect a replay of their match against Shams?

SectionF

Farce.

Huggles

oh jesus it gets better, apparently Bohs cant win any points from the game so its basically a chance for Oily and co to get three points. What a load of bollix...Why should Bohs bother?

MrJoeSoap

TheGooner wrote:

oh jesus it gets better, apparently Bohs cant win any points from the game so its basically a chance for Oily and co to get three points. What a load of bollix...Why should Bohs bother?

To stop Shels winning the three points I'd imagine!

Töpher

Bohs can win 3 points. It acts as a normal game. However, the 3 point deduction for fielding a suspended players stands. That is unrelated to the awarding of points from the replay though. So they can null the points deduction by winning. They should try to win for 2 or 3 main reasons:

1) Pride
2) Stopping Shels winning the league
3) Not finishing behind UCD and Longford in the league!

Farce of a decision. It should have been a case of awarding Shels the points or telling Ollie to go and play with traffic.

KdjaCL

he Football Association of Ireland Appeal Board has announced their decision following an appeal by Shelbourne Football Club against a decision of the Eircom League Protest Committee.




This appeal was initially heard by the FAI Appeal Board on Wednesday, October 18. The meeting was then adjourned and reconvened on Tuesday, October 31.


The FAI Appeal Board, having consulted all the available documentation and heard oral evidence, made the following decision:

• Deduction of three points against Bohemian F.C. to stand.

• Match between Bohemian FC and Shelbourne FC to be replayed at the original venue.

• Match between Bohemian FC and Shelbourne FC to be replayed as a matter of urgency.


The reasons for the FAI Appeal Board decision were as follows:

• The deduction of points against Bohemians FC stands due to the ineligibility of the Bohemians FC player.

• The Eircom League Premier Division match between Bohemian FC and Shelbourne FC is to be replayed in the interests of Fair Play.


Following the Appeal Board decision the option of arbitration is available.

Cmon Bohs, shels are a an embarassment to the league (i really do say that every season).


kdjac

_blank_

KdjaCL wrote:

Cmon Bohs, shels are a an embarassment to the league (i really do say that every season).

:rolleyes:

Shelbourne FC and Ollie Byrne are an embarassment for pointing out ineffeciencies in the way the league is run?

Ollie gave the league rope when he said he'd settle for a replay, and they have duly hanged themselves.

By stating that Shels are an embarassment is to say that you agree with the way the league has been run. You are happy to support a laughing stock league?

Bohemians essentially cheated against Shelbourne, are Shelbourne to have no recourse for this?

I agree that a replay is a joke decision, it should have been three points awarded to Shels, and a 3-0 win.

Also, the fact that Derry got away with fielding an ineligable player on a technicality makes the league a bigger laughing stock.

The fact that only one man - Ollie Byrne - is campaigning to see the league run in a proper manner speaks volumes to me. Why are the other clubs happy to wallow in the mire?

The ONLY embarassment to the league is itself, and frankly the only problem people can possibly have with Ollie Byrne is a massive chip on a shouldr regarding Shelbourne Football Club. Putting this shoulder chip above the correct and proper running of the league is petty in the extreme.

But what about this? Shels have six first teamers injured for a game, and one suspended player. They play the game, and field the suspended player, and lose. In theory, and with this precedent in place now, they could go and report themselves for this, and get a replay months later when a fully fit team is available. Bohemians have not been punished for this yet, as they still have a chance to win the three points back.

Gah, I hate this, and people wonder why this league has so little support, I'm considering walking away myself.

Ronan|Raven

What a disgusting decision. Well done oily and the FAIlure. Unbelievable.

"You only win the league in court.."

_blank_

This didn't go to court.

Huggles

seansouth wrote:

:rolleyes:

Bohemians essentially cheated against Shelbourne, are Shelbourne to have no recourse for this?

Bohs foolishly settled on a verbal OK from the FAI, they didn't cheat.

seansouth wrote:

it should have been three points awarded to Shels, and a 3-0 win.

With all due respect Des, What planet are you living on???

seansouth wrote:

The fact that only one man - Ollie Byrne - is campaigning to see the league run in a proper manner speaks volumes to me.

Only when it concerns his club.

Ronan|Raven

seansouth wrote:

This didn't go to court.

Indeed, silly of me to be jumping my gun, had the FAI not bent over, im sure it would have been his next stop.

bohsman

Absolute farce, if Bohs cant win points they shouldnt play any 1st team players for fear of injury, they should also charge double entrance and play another suspended player so we get yet another home gate from the 2nd replay, by the 45th replay the FAI might realise their ruling was a farce.

This is all assuming the Eircom League dont bring it to arbritration which they are considering.

Ronan|Raven

rock, scissors paper could be a better way to solve it.

_blank_

TheGooner wrote:

With all due respect Des, What planet are you living on???

Well, what should have happened?

Like it or not, Bohemian FC broke the rules. Wether or not they meant it.

They have to be punished

TheGooner wrote:

Only when it concerns his club.

This sounds suspiciously like the Bohs line when it was revealed to them that McGuinness was suspended. That Shels officials knew about it, and Bohs didn't, and perhaps the Shels people should have told them. FFS, I said when this happened that I knew about the suspension before the game.

Why would Ollie go fighting any other club's corner?

Of course he's going to point out flaws in the system when it can benefit Shels, and if not pointing out the flaws is more beneficial to his club, then more power to him for exploiting them. Long may it continue, until the clowns that run this farce of a league cop themselves on and put a rulebook in place that they stick to, with no loopholes, then people will be well within their rights to do what they please with regards to what flaws they exploit or not.

Answer this. Would you rather the league continued like it is at the moment, or have it overhauled?

Well, the only way it is going to be overhauled is by people, not just Ollie, pointing out the flaws, because the league authority figures aren't going to do it themselves.

bohsman

Ronan|Raven wrote:

Indeed, silly of me to be jumping my gun, had the FAI not bent over, im sure it would have been his next stop.

Looks like it alright

League facing meltdown as Shels fight their corner
Wednesday November 1st 2006


THE FAI appeals board is today expected to rule on the controversial Jason McGuinness case, but the off-field drama that is overshadowing this season's eircom League will not end there - even if a verdict is reached on that matter.

That's because Shelbourne chief executive Ollie Byrne has written to both the League and the FAI to express his concern over the handling of two other matters earlier in the season.

They relate to Derry City defender Sean Hargan playing in a game when he was suspended and the decision to wipe Dublin City's games from the record after they folded mid-season.

Byrne is promising "serious ramifications" unless the cause for his ire is taken seriously on this occasion.

Put simply, any hope that the pronouncement on the McGuinness saga will bring closure to off the field shenanigans overshadowing the title race is way offside.

Suspended

The McGuinness case relates to the Bohemians' defender playing while suspended in the Gypsies' 2-1 League win over Shelbourne back in August.

While Bohs claim they weren't aware that McGuinness was suspended, and blame the League for this fact, Shels appealed the decision to simply deduct three points from Bohs when UEFA precedents would suggest that, in such an instance, the opposition should be awarded a 3-0 victory.

And, even if Shels get the three points today, they will persist with their grievances relating to the other two affairs that were previously dealt with by the League.

While Byrne believes that Shels manager Pat Fenlon and his squad are "the best team in the League" that can finish the job on the pitch anyway, he has a Plan B ready just in case that Derry prove stronger in the league climax.

With just over two fixture-congested weeks to go, Shels lead by three points but their opponents have a game in hand.

Byrne's quibble is not quite with the way Derry have conducted their business; his argument is that the League acted beyond their remit in both instances.

Hargan most definitely played in a League game against Bray when he should have been banned after picking up four yellow cards.

However, with the League's board of control handling the issue of points deductions, Derry were allowed to present a case prior to any sanction being handed out and the Candystripes avoided penalty when they uncovered the fact that the FAI disciplinary commission had considered Hargan's case a week earlier than they should have.

Byrne insists that the League did not have authority to consider Derry's argument at that stage when it was clear that Hargan was definitely suspended. And the Shels supremo is resolute that Derry should have accepted a points deduction initially and then pursued the FAI appeals board avenue, where they could have pleaded their innocence.

The argument against the decision to expunge Dublin City's games from the record is based along similar lines. Byrne's grounds for questioning the final verdict - which was made by the eircom League's management committee - is that it wasn't their decision to make.

By erasing the deceased Vikings' games in this campaign, Derry gained three points on Shels as they lost one of their games against the ill fated club.

Confused? Join the club.

"This is not sour grapes," said Byrne in defence of his actions in taking the matter further. "All I ask is that the goalposts aren't moved and that the playing field remains the same for everybody."

While the Shelbourne chief's concerns are nothing new to the League - they discussed some of the issues at a board of control meeting last month after receiving an earlier letter - the powers-that-be are still bracing themselves for whatever course of action that Shelbourne choose to take.

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

Well, what should have happened?

Like it or not, Bohemian FC broke the rules. Wether or not they meant it.

They have to be punished

So should you not also be for lying on your licence entry about your tax problems and inability to pay wages, or are they rules only Rovers break?

The EL have to decide this decision on friday as they didnt make it, they can overturn it if they have the balls too.

kdjac

bohsman

seansouth wrote:

Well, what should have happened?

Like it or not, Bohemian FC broke the rules. Wether or not they meant it.

They have to be punished

Bohs were punished, 3 point deduction, now it would appear we are bing rewarded with a chance to win the points again and a 2nd home gate.

_blank_

KdjaCL wrote:

So should you not also be for lying on your licence entry about your tax problems and inability to pay wages, or are they rules only Rovers break?

Of course, but yet again we have a farce of a league making farcial decisions, this time to the benefit of Shelbourne. I'm not going to go screaming to the league about this, neither, I'd say, is Ollie.

bohsman wrote:

Bohs were punished, 3 point deduction, now it would appear we are bing rewarded with a chance to win the points again and a 2nd home gate.

So, there is no punishment.

Also, I have heard that the gate will have to be split 50/50.

_blank_

When is this game to be played by the way.

Isn't Dalymount being used next Tuesday for a very important 'B' international friendly?

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

Of course, but yet again we have a farce of a league making farcial decisions, this time to the benefit of Shelbourne. I'm not going to go screaming to the league about this, neither, I'd say, is Ollie.

So anything you(shels fans) or Ollie says good of the league is complete balls and should read Good of Shelbourne.

kdjac

_blank_

Not at all, but again I'll ask the question that is being dodged on here.

Why the hell should Ollie do anything that benefits another club?

bohsman

seansouth wrote:

Also, I have heard that the gate will have to be split 50/50.

Smithers is the only person I've heard mention a 50-50 split, cant see why there would be. Theres still bar takings etc.

When will this game be played? Apparently Bohs have to get 14 days notice.

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

Not at all, but again I'll ask the question that is being dodged on here.

Why the hell should Ollie do anything that benefits another club?

Is he not doing this for the good of the league :eek: Thats his point isnt it? Would you encourage others to do the same? Derry to round up whats left of Dub City and replay them and win? Yes thats what should happen it makes perfect sense for the good of the league.

kdjac

KdjaCL

bohsman wrote:

When will this game be played? Apparently Bohs have to get 14 days notice.

LOL i fully endorse Bohs next action on the date of this game


kdjac

SectionF

Leaving the legalities (which Bohs have not appealed) aside, is it not jaw-droppingly unsporting of Shelbourne to take the matter this far, when Shelbourne officials knew in advance that McGuinness was suspended, but chose to say nothing?
Isn't that disgustingly cynical?

_blank_

You actually think Ollie was to know that Bohemian FC was imcompetent enough to let a staff member go on holidays and not have someone else do their job?

Of course Shels people knew of the suspension, officials from every club knew, as every other club had a staff member doing the job of checking correspondance from the league. Suddenly Ollie is a cynic for thinking Bohemian FC could look after themselves? The BIG Club?

Then, even if he did know this, he was supposed to make a phone call to the Bohemian FC Board or management to remind them that they had a suspended player for the upcoming match between the sides?

This is ridiculous.

Look, I knew that night, when I was handed the team sheet in the gantry in Dalymount. Am I a cynic for not rushing to the Bohs dressing room and telling the lovely Mr. Farrelly that he had named a suspended player?

d22ontour

Were St Pats deducted 15 points for doing the same ?
Did the Opposite teams recieve the 3 points for the games ?
Did they get replays if they didn't ?
I am not sure if they got anything from the games but think that Bohs only have themselves to blame for the points deduction but a replay ? It seems if Bohs beat Shels which i doubt then Ollie will be pushing for Derry to be sanctioned as a failsafe.

KdjaCL

d22ontour wrote:

It seems if Bohs beat Shels which i doubt then Ollie will be pushing for Derry to be sanctioned as a failsafe.

Then Derry demand a replay in accordance of the precedent set by Ollie.

/Everyone together Dream team tune whoa whoah whoa



kdjac

Töpher

SectionF wrote:

Leaving the legalities (which Bohs have not appealed) aside, is it not jaw-droppingly unsporting of Shelbourne to take the matter this far, when Shelbourne officials knew in advance that McGuinness was suspended, but chose to say nothing?
Isn't that disgustingly cynical?

I knew in advance. Other Shels fans knew in advance. I'm sure half your crowd if not more knew in advance. Just because your management were to inept to know in advance, its Shels fault?

Perhaps we should call Drogheda on Thursday evening, to let them know that a few players could be suspended for following games if they get booked against us on Friday?

super_furry

So I take it now that Shamrock Rovers will be replaying Dundalk in the First Division? It's the exact same scenario, except we're Shamrock Rovers.

One rule for the convicted criminal's club and another rule for the rest of us. Every day I come to despise Shelbourne and its CEO more. No wonder people call the eircom League a mickeymouse league, you wouldn't get this kind of bull**** from an under-10 C league.

SectionF

Einst&#252 wrote: »

I knew in advance. Other Shels fans knew in advance. I'm sure half your crowd if not more knew in advance. Just because your management were to inept to know in advance, its Shels fault?

I didn't say it was Shels' 'fault'. Whether the 'fault' lay with Bohs or with the league has already been decided by the league. I said it was unsporting, something which has been studiously avoided in this discussion.
I can understand you staying silent. You're just fans.
The point is that Nutsy and co. stood on the sidelines and stayed schtum. Your team captain, who shook hands with the ref, and with the Bohs captain, stayed schtum. And the ringmaster, Ollie, stayed schtum until he could hold the league to ransom and expose it to ridicule.
Forget about the legals and the playground finger-pointing for a bit and answer the question: don't you think it's just plain sneaky?

super_furry

SectionF wrote:

Forget about the legals and the playground finger-pointing for a bit and answer the question: don't you think it's just plain sneaky?

And certainly not in the 'interests of fair play' as those clowns in charge would say, but when has that ever stopped them?

Töpher

Shelbourne had a legal right to appeal - the same thing as Derry and Rovers have already this season. Derrys appeal was successful (if not, they would have been docked 9 points), Rovers was not. The FAI made a balls of a decision which should have had only two options, the result standing, or a default 3-0 victory for Shelbourne.

For the record, I'm not happy about this at all.

Töpher

SectionF wrote:

I didn't say it was Shels' 'fault'. Whether the 'fault' lay with Bohs or with the league has already been decided by the league. I said it was unsporting, something which has been studiously avoided in this discussion.
I can understand you staying silent. You're just fans.
The point is that Nutsy and co. stood on the sidelines and stayed schtum. Your team captain, who shook hands with the ref, and with the Bohs captain, stayed schtum. And the ringmaster, Ollie, stayed schtum until he could hold the league to ransom and expose it to ridicule.
Forget about the legals and the playground finger-pointing for a bit and answer the question: don't you think it's just plain sneaky?

I may well be wrong, I do recall both reading and hearing that the ref (Tuite?) was informed of McGuiness' suspension prior to the game, but responded with something along the lines of the fact that it wasn't within his power to tell Bohemians who they can and cannot play, and that if he was played as an illegal player, it was a matter for those governing the league.
I'm not claiming this as fact, just saying I recall hearing something of the sort around the time.

However, a fact (I know you gypos love the word ), is that had Shelbourne refused to take to the pitch - no matter why - Bohemians would have been awarded a walkover.

If this did happen, what else would Heary have been expected to do? Hand Bohemians a walkover? Point out to the referee something that had already been pointed out in the dressing rooms earlier?

Once Nutsy was on the sidelines, what was he meant to do? Protest with the 4th official over something he can't change? He had a game to try and win, and as such had to put his efforts into it.

Ollie spent the game going nuts in the stands. Like the others, at the time there was nothing he could do. What did you expect him to do from the stands?

It was on the radio after the game IIRC, not like Shels waited for Derry to catch up to give out about it.

It's a shocking decision yes, but Shelbourne only followed course like two other clubs have done earlier this year.

SectionF

The simple act of registering a protest, for the record, would have sufficed to preserve honour.

Töpher

You'd be spouting the same thing if we had told Bohemians after the referee decided not to. Interefeering with game preparation. Unsporting behaviour. The list goes on.

This was the sole fault of Bohemians, and any attempt to shift blame elsewhere is laughable. Match officials were informed prior to kick off (I believe), and a complaint was lodged immediately afterwards.

Without refusing to take to the pitch and suffering the consequences, the club could do no more.

A protest would have preserved honour you say? A protest would have resulted in official complaints to the governing body against the club by the opposition, and possibly something like charges for bringing the game into disrepute. It's easy to say otherwise in hindsight, but at the time the club did all they could do. Without, of course, getting Ollie to run on and steamroll McGuiness into the sand on the pitch at Dalymount.

bohsman

This ones gonna run and run, most players probably from both teams will have booked hollidays for the 19th or so, both teams need 14 days notice for the game to go ahead and with Derry and the league talking about challenging the decision, theres no way they will be able to set a date in the next 36 hours.

_blank_

Media Statement



The eircom League Board of Control at its meeting today (November 4th) decided to refer to arbitration, as is provided for under FAI rules, the FAI Appeal Board’s decision in relation to the Bohemians v Shelbourne fixture.



There will be no further statement at this time.



ENDS



Andy Needham

Media & Public Relations Officer

eircom League

80 Merrion Square

Dublin 2

So, to arbitration we go.

They may uphold the replay decision.

They may award Shels the game and points.

They may decide the original game and result stand.

They may award Bohs the games and points.

But when?

:mad:

I fúcking hate this shít.

Pigman II

C'mon lads. Fair is fair. Give Olly a break.

His hissy fits are only his way of ensuring the game is run well and fairly in this country and I'm confident he would have sought a reply even had Shels won first time out.

It's his Corinthian spirit that inspires me the most.

gimmick

Funniest thing about this absolute farce, is that if Bohs were to regain the 3 points, both Longford and UCD could kick up a fuss that Bohs were not punish, and in effect, weakened their claims for a place in the new league next season (UCD especially).

It is doubly farcical that it has taken 10 weeks for this decision to be made. It should have been made within 5 - 10 working days at worst.

Pathetic is what it is really. This whole season has been a farce

- Shels get a winding up order
- Cork City get a winding up order
- Dublin City go out of existense
- The results of their matches are stricken, costing some valuable points
- Shams ineligible player
- This whole malarkey
- Pat Devlin

A joke.

_blank_

gimmick wrote:

- Shels get a winding up order

Make that two.

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

Make that two.

1 player strike and another looming

It has to be said fair play to Fenlon for getting the team to perform under those circumstances.


kdjac

Zebra3

d22ontour wrote:

Were St Pats deducted 15 points for doing the same ?
Did the Opposite teams recieve the 3 points for the games ?
Did they get replays if they didn't ?
I am not sure if they got anything from the games but think that Bohs only have themselves to blame for the points deduction but a replay ? It seems if Bohs beat Shels which i doubt then Ollie will be pushing for Derry to be sanctioned as a failsafe.

No.

Pat's were deducted points for playing unregisterted players.

Bohs played a suspended player.

As usual it's Ollie's fault other club other clubs cock up.

gimmick

Cant believe I am about to type this, but its a pity others dont take the same actions as Ollie Byrne. By not reacting it makes it seem that the mismanagement and mediocrity and half arsed measures are acceptable.

Still dont like him though

bohsman

Zebra3 wrote:

No.

Pat's were deducted points for playing unregisterted players.

Bohs played a suspended player.

As usual it's Ollie's fault other club other clubs cock up.

How do you figure that? Bohs were given a punishment and accepted it.

_blank_

gimmick wrote:

Cant believe I am about to type this, but its a pity others dont take the same actions as Ollie Byrne. By not reacting it makes it seem that the mismanagement and mediocrity and half arsed measures are acceptable.

Still dont like him though

Now, here we have a fan of another league club finally opening his eyes and seeing the argument that Shels fans have.

Jivin Turkey

The notion that Shelbourne should shoulder any blame what so ever for this is ridiculous.

End of story.