Dell Support part 2 *twitch* *twitch*

Hobbes

arghh....

Ok so one of the Dells I have is bluescreening. Doing it every hour or so.

Got a message from windows saying its a device driver but fecked if it knows which one and the bluescreen didn't say either.

The sheer pain of dealing with them last time (see here) I said feck that and try to fix it myself.

So I used Dell Support webpage. Let me say it was brilliant. It walked me through and with a diganostic tool I was able to find the problem.

ASPI driver was overwritten and vsdatant.sys (Zonealarm) was causing problems. So I replaced the ASPI drivers and reinstalled Zonealarm (after uninstalling).

The bluescreens went away for a while. Now it bluescreens maybe once every few days. Still not acceptable though. Googling I find other Dell Dimension owners with the exact same problem but no real solution, not even on ZoneAlarm site.

So I put in a web support call (I can't handle talking to them on phone again, I will end up screaming). I detail fully the PC, its serial number, its spec. I write in detail my investigation to date and what was found to be the problem.

I then ask them "Is this a known issue and how do I resolve it. If it can't be resolved can you suggest an alternative to Zonealarm that will work with the machine".

5 days later I get a response which looks like a form mail. It looks like they read nothing at all and tell me that I need to reformat my machine and reinstall the operating system and all the applications again.

Not only that he asks me for my systems details when I have already given them to him.

How fuk'ed up is that. Its like rank newbie support. I already know just uninstalling Zonealarm will stop the bluescreens, I'm not going to spend a whole day putting a machine back from factory settings when I know that it will be back at the same issue.

So I had a go at him in the mail. Told him I wanted an engineer who knew how to answer my question if he was incapable.

Anyway I just needed to vent some more. Will update if I get a response.

Cabaal

I take it you've dropped Dell's bundled crap and install a normal copy of WindowsXP? Also why not just use a different firewall?

eth0_

Cabaal wrote:

I take it you've dropped Dell's bundled crap and install a normal copy of WindowsXP? Also why not just use a different firewall?

"Is this a known issue and how do I resolve it. If it can't be resolved can you suggest an alternative to Zonealarm that will work with the machine".

That's what he's trying to do

Hobbes

The firewall that is bundled with Dell is a trial version of Symantec or norton (I forget) and they expect you to pay.

cwynnes

That ladies and gentlemen is why one should never buy a Dell, yet men and women across the country still cant understand that Dell is not such a nice machine, I know its convenient buying it online but there are other cheaper, better makes that are available online also so why not shop around....

People dont realise how important support is when buying a PC, they must be thinking "It'll never happen me"

Dell support should never have told you to reformat the machine, that is always a very last resort when giving support, and it seems like they tell everyone this.

For my machine (IBM) im running Windows XP, I have Norton Antivirus running and also use Spybot S&D, i never have any problems with this and never had any virus, i have used zonealarm but found it was of no added advantage to me.

Hobbes

>that Dell is not such a nice machine,

Depends very much on the machine. As it is now I have 3 machines. 2 Dimensions and 1 XPS.

XPS support is handled in Scotland. I have yet to ring support there as the machine itself has never had a problem.

Only one of the Dimension PCs is causing support calls.

Also the Dell support site is very good.

CiaranC

The problem is with Zonealarms ****ty software, not with Dell. Unless Dell have taken the incredibly stupid step of bundling that POS with their machines?

*edit* I see that that isnt the case. I dont see why you expect Dell to support third party software?

cwynnes

Im not saying every dell you have will cause problems, of course this isn't the case, im glad your other computers have no problems, hopefully they never will, im just saying why not go for computers with known good quality and competant customer support, lord knows they are probably cheaper than Dell :)

ThomasH

im just saying why not go for computers with known good quality and competant customer support, lord knows they are probably cheaper than Dell

Like who?

TerrorFirmer

From your problem it doesn't seem to be a problem with dell at all, just uninstall zonealarm and use something else? Although the advice offered was crap alright, but still...

And yeah, you can get better machines elsewhere, but usually only in the higher end market. Its pretty near impossible to find cheaper computers then Dells low end models, which are perfectly fine for most users.

cwynnes

ThomasH wrote:

Like who?

Acer, IBM, HP.....have never heard anything bad from them, quite the oppisite actually, thing is you dont have to go to far to hear complaints about Dell

Have dealt with fujitsu siemens support recently and found them less than satisfactory

Acer have quite competitive prices, definately worth a look over Dell

Karoma

I must say, you'd encounter the same technical issue with any other brand and same support issue with any other brand. They're unlikely to suggest that you use any 3rd party software that they don't already bundle - it always has the possibility to **** up.

Try:

Sunbelt Kerio Personal Firewall (Trial, after which it becomes feature-limited) or COMODO (Free)

Hobbes

CiaranC wrote:

*edit* I see that that isnt the case. I dont see why you expect Dell to support third party software?

Jeez reading must be hard for some.

I am not asking Dell to support Zonealarm. I asked them if it was a known issue and if so how was it resolved, and if it wasn't whats a better firewall solution.

I have already confirmed myself that it is a known issue (at least to the customers) but can't find any tech note on it in the Dell Site.

I also already know uninstalling Zonealarm will resolve the issue. I said that already.

Hobbes

Karoma wrote:

I must say, you'd encounter the same technical issue with any other brand and same support issue with any other brand. They're unlikely to suggest that you use any 3rd party software that they don't already bundle - it always has the possibility to **** up.

Well its how they handle it. I recall a doc of "How not to run
a support site". You basically had three kinds of get rid of the customer.

1. Keep them on hold and moving between people having them repeat the same question over and over.

2. Send them out some hardware that won't fix the issue but keeps them away for weeks while they wait/install/uninstall/send back.

3. Try and find any software thats on the machine that isn't bundled (which everyone has) and then refuse to support it.

So far Dell are doing all three.

I know from IBM that once they prove its a third party issue they tell you its unsupported but if your paying for support they belong to a group called TSANET which basically means they ring the other support company and handle getting your problem resolved instead of having to ring another company and getting the run around because you have no support there.

With Dell for example with my last runaround even though they bundled the logitech mouse/keyboard the second they thought it was the problem they shut me out.

I have friends in India that work in support and talked about this. They said that the problem is that India has 1000's of callcenters but most of these seem to think that a callcenter is the same as a support center. It isn't. In order to run a support center you need people who are qualified in what do, not just capable of answering a phone.

In India callcenters can get new people easily, but support centers you have to pay very well to keep your employees.

Try:
Sunbelt Kerio Personal Firewall (Trial, after which it becomes feature-limited) or COMODO (Free)

Cheers! You answered my question.

CiaranC

Hobbes wrote:

am not asking Dell to support Zonealarm. I asked them if it was a known issue and if so how was it resolved, and if it wasn't whats a better firewall solution.

You should be asking Zone Labs if its a known issue, not Dell.

Dell are a hardware vendor, they dont provide recommendations on third party software.

I have already confirmed myself that it is a known issue (at least to the customers) but can't find any tech note on it in the Dell Site.

Of course you cant find a tech note on the Dell site, the software is not supported or distributed by Dell...

This seller on ebay has two Sonicwall Hardware firewalls up for a ridiculously low price:

http://cgi.ebay.ie/SONICWALL-SOHO-2-FIREWALL_W0QQitemZ180044809149QQihZ008QQcategoryZ51168QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

With multiple machines, it might be the way to go

Hobbes

CiaranC wrote:

You should be asking Zone Labs if its a known issue, not Dell.

The issue only occurs with Dell machines. That would make it a problem with Dells setup. I had checked Zonelabs and they are aware of the issue with Dell + certain Cisco router but the issue is not thiers.

Dell are a hardware vendor, they dont provide recommendations on third party software.

They may sell hardware but they also kit the machine with various drivers and network card is dells as well.

Anyway got a response back from Dell support...

I have researched on the Internet on this issue and have found that this is known issue with Zone alram product which is incompatible with Windows XP operating system.

:rolleyes: It is only supported on XP and 2000.

dellas1979

Hobbes,

May I suggest that you contact ZoneAlarm instead of contacting Dell.
Dell dont see the problem is with their hardware/software, but with another piece of software that you have installed yourself.

Im sorry to say, but noone/Support in Dell is going to go and find you something else instead of ZoneAlarm to work with your machine.

I worked in technical support a few years ago, and used to get attacked by people who went installed s/w on machines and then complained it didnt work ("but it will work when I unstall it........."). No way Jose should they support your query.

Hobbes

I had already checked Zonelabs. The issue relates to software that Dell has on the machine.

I wasn't asking Dell to fix it, I was asking if they had more details on the issue. The response of reformatting is a joke.

leirbag

hi all,

as an IT professional who has worked for nearly all the large vendors mentioned in varying capacity I have to agree that the response given was unacceptable.

It is lazy and shows a distinct lack of understanding of the issue. However it is fair to say that all the organisations mentioned have extremely capable and knowledgeable staff, it's just a question of connecting to them and this is where the issue starts.

Unfortunately the idea is in a call center / support center to be equipped to deal with volume ala ryanair. some disappointed customers sure but the majority +/- satisfied. the people who understand the issue are usually a long way from the phone or actually working on the solutions which go to the web. The recruitment agencies present very poor candidates who then get hired due tio the sheer volume of calls and personnel required to answer these. the hiree then believes that they can coast as they " are good enough" the whole idea of customer service goes out the window as all the hiree wants to do is punch the clock, collect the wages and study to get off the phones / go back to country of origin / etc.

this cycle continues and is known as "rate iof attrition" . all call centers/ support centers are salary banded so no matter how good you are at your job you can only get paid a certain amount so the incentive to exceeed is removed. to get real pay rises people move with the result that the people dealing with the public ie consumer support are always the lowest on the chain. Really theree are people who are born for phone support and they should be paid the same as others but the system militates against this. I have dealt with so called consultants who could use a couple of years on the phone to learn their business being the mirror image of this.

It is perfectly obvious from reading the boards that there are some very talented people who have a "spirit of service" and are willing to help. google groups are great for this sort of thing.

I have run networks with thousands of Dell, FSC, HP, IBM etc systems and all have proved extremely reliable from a hardware standpoint. operationally they are also solid due to rigorous testing of software. however i have seen this issue on dell dimension systems using nortons personal FW as well. uninstall it and no problem. the issue is almost certainly belonging to the software vendor as most harward device drivers are certified and signed by microsoft.

personally i use Kerio on the clients but have used zonealarm extensively in the past.

dellas1979

leirbag,

The resources are not there for the customer support team to provide an answer about a piece of s/w that doesnt work on the machine.

It simply isnt. I dont think you are being fair to people who work on the phones. Its not a conspiracy, if they knew what the problem was, they would tell him.

It needs to be sent to 2nd/3rd level support, who, in turn, dont get back to the 1st level support.

Thats why I suggested he go to ZoneAlarm. Maybe they have a patch. Maybe they know why it wont work with Dell.

TempestSabre

With Dells I find you are better finding a solution yourself. Hobbes - what the model number of the machine perhaps as a group we can find a solution. That said my Dell at work at Xeon workstation blue screens on a cold every now and again. I know its driver issue but I couldn't be bothered finding a solution as it doesn't happen that often.