Am I the only one not overly impressed with the Wii?

LookingFor

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Perhaps pushing at the edge of the envelope when it concerns next gen matters should include more than just graphical grunt? Perhaps people need to broaden their horizons a bit, I mean what matter it that Quake4 is a tad smoother than Doom3 on the previous gen, and Prey not much better? Surely the possiblities of new ways to be engaged by games is what keeps us coming back and for a long time now its been how well a Ferrari is rendered as it speeds around London or New York, or perhaps how well defined the weapons are in your latest FPS, maybe we should consider the value of making us interact with games in a new way as a next gen property?

I think it is of course a next-gen property. But I don't think it's inherently holds any more potential for improving the experience than greater processing power does. It's just another tool for crafting the experience. Bad controls can break a game as much as good controls can improve them, and you will see games make bad use of the Wii's controls too. And you will see games that simply take current-gen mechanics and concepts and simply 'tack on' wii controls as much as you see games on 360 or PS3 that take fundamentally current gen games and put a new lick of paint on them. You won't see some magical across-the-board improvement in gameplay because you're suddenly playing with a wii-mote, and I think sometimes people blur the lines in their head between different controls and better gameplay (and I say different very purposefully - the controls may not be better, and may in fact be worse, again depending on the developer's effort and application).

The challenge on all the consoles is for developers to present something truly next-gen in terms of experience. Wii offers a different pallette, but not necessarily a better one for doing that. And I'm not sure it'll make it any easier for developers to produce something truly 'next-gen' in terms of experience than on the other systems (asides from the free pass it basically gives in terms of graphics/physics etc. which is not really a good thing, IMO).

Call Me Jimmy

I think the wii is being slightly overhyped and I also think that the early games will be disappointing.

However, the potential is there for developers to make revolutionary games that require skill. Taking tennis as an example, it would be possible for a developer to do a sim that would use all of the information collected by the wiimote to create accurate shots and move using the analogue. The way you swing the remote could define power, direction and spin and would not allow just any retarded movement or the ball would go out.

Like with red steel, at first they had a set of predefined swings that you do by waving the wiimote in a general direction but they realised that people wanted to control these things accurately and they changed the sword's control system. I would imagine that this is a much more satisfying experience, to see your movement be precisely recreated on-screen.

As long as developers have the balls to do the games properly and not dumb down everything for these "non-gamers", the wii could be a great console.

CiDeRmAn

Perhaps we are getting lost using now obsolete terms like "next gen".
Given that the release of consoles is now smeared across a 3 year time frame, that not including handheld hardware, we see more of a continuum of hardware, each new machine redefining what is possible, changing expectations, while Sony and MS seem comfortable pushing the boundries of existing genres bringing us a 5 year future of yet unseen glorious FPS, RTS and simulation bliss, Nintendo have taken a step into a territory untapped, it could be a disaster courting people who have differ from casual gamers as casual gamers differ from the hardcore, but it;ll be surely interesting to see what happens, while the future of the 360 and PS3, at least in Europe, seems readily predictable it's great to have a real joker in the game, one who's target audience don't even know they are gamers yet.

ambro25

CiDeRmAn wrote:

(...)At least Nintendo are (i)charging a fair price for the Wii and not taking the michael like Sony, its the only thing about the PS3 thats putting me off buying one at launch, well that and the fact that most releases will be shared with the 360 and (ii)I have one of those!

...and that's pretty much it, in two nutshells

At the end of the day, the videogame industry has always been and, unless the distribution model changes somewhat, always wiil be a numbers' game: it doesn't matter who makes the console, how many polys it pushes, if it does 5.1 out of the box or whatnot - if it doesn't sell in high enough numbers, if the makers don't get the installed user base quickly enough, there will be no software support.. and the format will die.

From a developer's perspective: 10 years ago, it took max-maximum a couple of €ms and a year to produce a sure-fire AAA monster-seller, amongst the more ordinary half-€m and 6 months dev time. Came PS2 and XBOX and the €2m/1year figures became the norm for As, and doubled for AAAs. Now, with PS3/XB360, double the figures again. How much more do you think studios can stretch investors' and console owners' respective patiences?

It's already afoot, and think about it: why does SONY keep trumpeting that the PS3 price will be offset by a longer shelf-life, e.g. a PS3 is going to last you 7 years? Because the mid- to end-life "astounding titles" are that far away this time around.

I believe Ninty's got it right market wise here:

*generic* hardcore gamers have had a 360 for a while now, or will this Xmas since short of any available PS3s.

*real* hardcore gamers will still somehow get hold of a PS3, but these fall in two infinitesimally small groups, in the context of the above "numbers games" - very well off and will grab one at any price, or really very hardcore and will grab one at any price.

*casual* gamers, when faced with no PS3 available, an XB360 at the price it's at and the Wii at the price it will be, are likely to pump for Wii (already regularly featured in just about every dayTV show you care to name, across Europe).

*parents* buying for kid gamers - see 'casual gamers' immediately above.

By March 2007, considering there's only so much total disposable income for videogame hardware in Europe, most of which is spent at Xmas (Xmas 06 in this case), once you take away DS lites, PSPs, 360s and Wii (not to mention the vast majority still buying PS2s & XB1s) - there ain't gonna be much of a market left for PS3 (because of equipment level this Xmas), and it's a long long slog to Xmas 07 = not much installed user base in Europe by Xmas 2007 = (I believe, and expect) 'rippled' adverse effect on developers.

Time will tell. I'm a PC gamer myself. But I started with a CBS in '84, I've been into and out of it ever since, and I've owned pretty much every console ever made (save for a 360, I hung up the gloves after XB/PS2/GC): there's been catastrophies even for very major players in every format cycle - Atari 2600/Jag, Sega (DC), 3DO (M2), etc. each of whom was supposed to become the be all and end all and tech. Sony's not out of the woods yet, M$ console take up rate is not quite on target a year on, and Ninty could still tank on the Wii.

CiDeRmAn

Yup, the scary thing is a colleague of mine was asking me about consoles for Xmas as I am the default games expert in my workplace, only earning the respect I deserve around Xmas time (go figure), anyhow I was telling her about the next gen visual glory of PGR3 on the 360 and other visual confections there in and then proceeded to describe the rather groovy Wii that was upcoming, she hummed and hawwed about it and said her son wanted the PS3, I told her it was really only fractionally better than the 360 which was half the price but she maintained "Sure its Christmas and only a couple of hundred more, and its the console he wants", there you go, thats the obstacle Nintendo have to surmount, MS too truth be told, the blind adulation of the ignorant at the altar of Sony, blinded by a machines brand rather than interested in a software catalogue, I mean if a guy really wants a PS3 and wants one because he really wants to play Motorstorm or Warhawk, thats cool, if a guy/girl wants to play a Nintendo simply because its nintendo, thats uncool, works both ways see, sadly there are school yards full of kids who only want a PS3 because its a Sony, despite their games collection consisting of a couple of multiformat Ubisoft and EA titles, and that type of consumer will be very hard to turn, very hard.
Unfortunately at each format release the target consumer becomes less of a niche hobbiest and more and more mainstream, the past format shifts followed the cool games, but as each one was led more and more by those led by the newspapers and other non specialist media outlets the customer drifts awat from the best games and to the sparkliest console, so folk bought a PS2 with a lousy launch mine up and a lousy line up for the first year instead of buying a DC with a great games line up, and this effect will be amplified this time, may not matter how good Lost Planet or Mass Effect are, may not matter how good Wii Tennis or Red Steel will be, the blind consumerist masses will dance to the tune of the newspapers and other crap PR led games news outlets and with that dishonest advice go for the most expensive console with the most expensive games and be blissfully happy with it.

Gizzard

yes, yes you are

LookingFor

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Yup, the scary thing is a colleague of mine was asking me about consoles for Xmas as I am the default games expert in my workplace, only earning the respect I deserve around Xmas time (go figure), anyhow I was telling her about the next gen visual glory of PGR3 on the 360 and other visual confections there in and then proceeded to describe the rather groovy Wii that was upcoming, she hummed and hawwed about it and said her son wanted the PS3, I told her it was really only fractionally better than the 360 which was half the price but she maintained "Sure its Christmas and only a couple of hundred more, and its the console he wants", there you go, thats the obstacle Nintendo have to surmount, MS too truth be told, the blind adulation of the ignorant at the altar of Sony, blinded by a machines brand rather than interested in a software catalogue, I mean if a guy really wants a PS3 and wants one because he really wants to play Motorstorm or Warhawk, thats cool, if a guy/girl wants to play a Nintendo simply because its nintendo, thats uncool, works both ways see, sadly there are school yards full of kids who only want a PS3 because its a Sony, despite their games collection consisting of a couple of multiformat Ubisoft and EA titles, and that type of consumer will be very hard to turn, very hard.
Unfortunately at each format release the target consumer becomes less of a niche hobbiest and more and more mainstream, the past format shifts followed the cool games, but as each one was led more and more by those led by the newspapers and other non specialist media outlets the customer drifts awat from the best games and to the sparkliest console, so folk bought a PS2 with a lousy launch mine up and a lousy line up for the first year instead of buying a DC with a great games line up, and this effect will be amplified this time, may not matter how good Lost Planet or Mass Effect are, may not matter how good Wii Tennis or Red Steel will be, the blind consumerist masses will dance to the tune of the newspapers and other crap PR led games news outlets and with that dishonest advice go for the most expensive console with the most expensive games and be blissfully happy with it.

If people gravitate towards Playstation, it's only because they've come through for them in a big way for the last 10 years. People don't buy consoles just for launch games, they buy them with the expectation of what's to come for the next 5-10 years, and in that regard, you can't really blame people for preferring Playstation given that it has successfully delivered for people before. It's brand loyalty, but it's not irrational or unfounded or blind - it has been well earned. Up to two generations of good service, depending on who you're talking about, is hard to ignore.

ambro25

LookingFor wrote:

If people gravitate towards Playstation, it's only because they've come through for them in a big way for the last 10 years. People don't buy consoles just for launch games, they buy them with the expectation of what's to come for the next 5-10 years, and in that regard, you can't really blame people for preferring Playstation given that it has successfully delivered for people before. It's brand loyalty, but it's not irrational or unfounded or blind - it has been well earned. Up to two generations of good service, depending on who you're talking about, is hard to ignore.

Oh well... obviously Nintendo's not come through for their customers for the last 23 years at least, then :rolleyes:

K.O.Kiki

CiDeRmAn, if you're the resident "games expert" -- I hope you told her the PS3 isn't available in Europe until March at the earliest!

Ho-Hum

Wii could be good but I'll definitley be waiting a while to see what the general impression is.

johnny_ultimate

Like a couple of posters here, the only thing that is putting me off getting one at launch is the lineup. Of course there is Zelda, but for some reason I feel like I'll be better off buying the GC version for two reasons : one, I wont have to spend 250 euro to play it and two, I have this strange feeling the control system will still seem a bit shoehorned in.
I think I'll be waiting to buy one until the truly original, innovative games show up. Super Mario Galaxy is a case in point. The videos show that this indeed seems like an innovative and exciting use of the controller that will benefit from being on the Wii, unlike other launch games which just seem like tried and tested formulas edited slightly to take advantage of the controller.
That said, as soon as I think there are some unique and fun games out for it, the Wii will have pride of place in my sitting room.

super_furry

Just saw that Xtra-Vision will be selling the Premium Xbox 360 pack with Gears of War, PES6, Project Gotham 3 and Splinter Cell for €499. That will work out near enough the same as a Wii and four games so I think I'll go for the 360 for the time being and get Zelda on the Gamecube.

K.O.Kiki

super_furry wrote:

Just saw that Xtra-Vision will be selling the Premium Xbox 360 pack with Gears of War, PES6, Project Gotham 3 and Splinter Cell for €499. That will work out near enough the same as a Wii and four games so I think I'll go for the 360 for the time being and get Zelda on the Gamecube.

You could still buy some Virtual Console games & a classic controller with the difference

thebman

Ho-Hum wrote:

Wii could be good but I'll definitley be waiting a while to see what the general impression is.

Thats what the US getting it first is for. See Nintendo do care about Europe :eek:

Rozie

Wii = gamecube power x2 (approx)

More like 1.5, which is pissing me off at the moment, considerring that you can get a lot of extra performance out of the GC just by adding more RAM(the GC has incredible architecture but didn't actually have enough VRAM to fully use the GPU's power) so I don't see why they're charging $250.

The Wii is not worth $250 from a technical standpoint, not if they're selling a 360 for 300(they'll soon be selling the premium for this). Which is pissing me off. I'll be getting one anyway, but it's pissing me off.