english reg car drivers, watch out!

Anan1

steve06 wrote:

It's because it's a stealth tax... it goes against free movement of goods in the EU. And stamp duty..... that's another matter... completely pointless tax... just to get extra money, there's no reason for it!

Isn't the point of all taxes to raise extra revenue? The reason being to pay for services & infrastructure?

blorg

Gurgle wrote:

Oh hell yeah, I've broken laws hundreds of times if not thousands.

But you've never seen me starting a thread about how shocked and horrified I was to find that I was being prevented from commiting a crime that I had expected to get away with.

Exactly, we've all broken laws, but if caught we don't whine about it. Indeed the OP was _lucky_ that they didn't just impound the car as they are entitled to do. They even gave him until the end of the month FFS.

Gurgle

ambro25 wrote:

That one made me laugh heartily.

Do you object to this TV Ownership tax (TV license, I take it)
* because it's a set amount not indexed on the actual price of the TV? (unlike VRT), or
* because you deem that the Irish airwaves should be free? (same as some posters here hold that free movement of personal property in the EU should override, as of right, such a stealth import tax as VRT)

Both reasons, and more.
It shouldn't exist in the first place - its almost as far out of date (and as reasonable) as window tax. It was originally brought in at a time when having a TV was a luxory limited to the very well off. It was one way of taxing them a few pound a year that they couldn't blag their way out of with a good accountant.

Even in the UK, they get something for it - 2 channels without advertising.
We get Pat Kenny :rolleyes:

Its a tax levied for the ownership of a TV, so yes if they are going to keep it in place, it should be a percentage on the price of a new TV.

VRT is not an import tax btw. Its a 'registration' tax.
Even if cars were made here, VRT would be charged on them.

However, as I said above, while I object to the existance of VRT, I prefer the way it is charged to some of the ideas that have floated in the last year or so.

As it is, its a percentage of the value of a vehicle when it is first registered in the state. One of the ideas to change it was to reduce the initial VRT and make owner #2 and #3 etc. pay a portion of it.

Great way to whack less well off people with another bill.

ambro25

Gurgle wrote:

(...)
VRT is not an import tax btw. Its a 'registration' tax.
Even if cars were made here, VRT would be charged on them.
(...)

Edited my post beforehand, so may I point you to it, if you want - no point cutting & pasting/posting twice

upsfan

steve06 wrote:

and sure even if it gets banned it'll just be renamed anyway....

Yeah, as "income tax." Fact is VRT is a pretty progressive tax on consumption and luxury, e.g. you pay more as the value of your car (and engine size) goes up. People driving Bentleys are paying the most, which is just fine with me. Also note our low excise on petrol - arguably should be raised to compensate for a lower rate of VRT, would encourage better fuel economy (while also sending people up north to buy their petrol- oh wait a sec, that's WHY we have low excise on petrol!) I would also agree 100% that VRT should be retooled to reward lower emissions.

Ireland actually has very low overall tax rates compared to the rest of Europe. And before someone points to low corporation tax, (1) that is helping provide you with a higher salary in the first place and (2) we actually have quite a low level of personal taxation as well.

opeldave

Wishbone Ash wrote:

You may not have the capacity to understand this opeldave but the Government is elected and the income from VRT belongs to the state, i.e. you and me etc.

Yes thanks you for that reminder.I thought I was voting to bring back bingo?

anyway the overinflated rate of VRT is practically immoral & bordering on bullying us! ie you & me & carowners.if we dont pay it then they will take the car etc.its government bullying the individual.
I am in favour or some VRT but not the incredible level it is at the moment & has been for FAR TOO LONG.
Until some politician take this issue seriously enough to make us vote on it we will still be ripped off as individuals/just like the westlink toll booth issue.
The government will let the individual suffer indefinitly as long as they get their coffers stuffed full of tax........................

blorg

So opeldave, your solution is? Income tax up to 50%? Excise on petrol doubled?

ambro25

blorg wrote:

So opeldave, your solution is? Income tax up to 50%? Excise on petrol doubled?

How about some imperatives/targets/accountability on not wasting taxpayers' money, e.g. regularly paying 10 or 20 times (!) what has been quoted for infrastructural work (motorways, tunnels, trams... you name it) and/or technical upgrades (e.g. IT system in health sector), instead?

It's easy enough demanding tax money and filling the coffers. In fact, it's damn f*cking easier to keep topping the auld coffer when it's haemorraging, than to plug the holes and/or turn the tap off as appropriate - especially where public spending is concerned.

Anan1

ambro25 wrote:

How about some imperatives/targets/accountability on not wasting taxpayers' money, e.g. regularly paying 10 or 20 times (!) what has been quoted for infrastructural work (motorways, tunnels, trams... you name it) and/or technical upgrades (e.g. IT system in health sector), instead?

It's easy enough demanding tax money and filling the coffers. In fact, it's damn f*cking easier to keep topping the auld coffer when it's haemorraging, than to plug the holes and/or turn the tap off as appropriate - especially where public spending is concerned.

This is all true, but it's a separate argument.

overdriver

Lads, get thee to the politics forum. I keep laughing at ninty9er's sig. The notion of "fair" and "Fainna Fail" in the same sentence without a million "not"'s in between is too much for me.

We were talking about VRT...


I saw an old MGB today in Rathmines. It's been lying up a while, but is on English plates. I'm assuming that they're not too bothered because it'd be so cheap ( 50 quid) to VRT it?

unkel

overdriver wrote:

I saw an old MGB today in Rathmines. It's been lying up a while, but is on English plates. I'm assuming that they're not too bothered because it'd be so cheap ( 50 quid) to VRT it?

The later year models aren't old enough yet to quailify for the €50 rate. Maybe that's the reason it's lying up on britplates

overdriver

'Course!
He'd wanna get the finger out, it's starting to decay badly.

Gurgle

opeldave wrote:

anyway the overinflated rate of VRT is practically immoral & bordering on bullying us! ie you & me & carowners.if we dont pay it then they will take the car etc.

In a way, its a voluntary tax.
You choose to buy an expensive car, you have to pay the piper.
You have the choice to buy an older or cheaper car, VRT is much less out of your pocket.
I think it should be done away with, or changed to something that reflects the emissions of the vehicle but as it is its not the worst way of taxing people for access to the roads.

opeldave wrote:

The government will let the individual suffer indefinitly as long as they get their coffers stuffed full of tax........................

Coffers stuffed with cash is not the main issue for the government - its getting re-elected. VRT is not an issue of enough importance to enough people to win an election.

Do-more

Regarding Customs patrols, I do about 40,000 miles a year and in the last three years I have met a sum total of 2 customs check-points. So for the average driver it's a real lottery if your going to be stopped and done for VRT at a checkpoint. More likely a neighbour or workmate will do you in...

As for the Customs powers, to the best of my knowledge they do not have the power to stop moving traffic without Garda assistance. At one check point they were assisted by the Garda and the other time they were positioned at a junction were you had to stop, they then approached me and said something along the lines of "do you mind if we dip your tank?" thus looking for consent and getting around the need to stop traffic.

Where Customs win out over the Garda is their powers of search. To the best of my knowledge they have powers to enter a property and conduct a search without a search warrant once they have reasonable suspicion....

S.I.R

land9 wrote: »

For those of you who are planning on buying an english import soon, make sure you have the money to include the cost of vrt as well -QUOTE]

i cant stress this enough !! :mad:

Gurgle

Did someone have an expensive run-in with the customs people?
(Or just practising thread necromancy?)

off topic very slightly but how come there are so many uk / nordie cars on carzone - are people going over en masse to pick up cars with the weaker sterling and trying to sell them here? there seems to be an oversupply at the moment....

Mc-BigE

fast answer, Yes.

there's money/savings to be made on certain cars compared to over here.

But always shop around, and don't be afraid to walk into an Irish dealer with some of the good ones printed out in your back pocket.

Also a print out of the VRT calculator (CC version! different thread) OMSP for an equivalent car on his yard, OMSP is around 95%ish of the irish price i think (someone will correct me if im wrong)

hot4teacher

I was told the other day that VRT is actually illegal, but the government earn more from it than they pay out in fines. Not sure how true this is..

I've just shelled out nearly 8 grand in VRT here. If I was to import the same car into Belgium, it would have cost me a massive 36 euro!!

Seth Brundle

It is not illegal, nor is VAT, income tax or any other tax. It is, however, grossly unfair.

ramanujan

TheWaterboy wrote: »

they run checkes for green diesel but can only do this when the gardai are with them. Customs cant stop you without having a garda present

A customs officer in uniform (bit like a sailor) is allowed stop moving traffic. Provision was made under the finance act.

although, funnily enough if you drive off, a customs official cant break the speed limit in following you. so you could burn away at 52 kmph, and escape! unless of course they called the gardai.

Esel

Although I don't like replying to a twice-resurrected thread, here goes:

ramanujan wrote:

A customs officer in uniform (bit like a sailor)....

More like a ship's officer's, or a pilot's uniform, I would say? "Hello, sailor!" comes to mind!

..is allowed stop moving traffic. Provision was made under the finance act.

although, funnily enough if you drive off, a customs official cant break the speed limit in following you. so you could burn away at 52 kmph, and escape! unless of course they called the gardai.

Funnily enough, failing to stop, or to keep your vehicle stationary for testing, is an offence. They can and will pursue you, and I wouldn't bank on them staying under the limit if you don't. In this scenario, I'd say that Garda assistance would be requested.

In the recesses of my mind I remember being told that Customs can run a vehicle off the road if it fails to stop for them. This was in the old pre-troubles smuggling days though. I don't know if it still applies, but I wouldn't like to test it. :eek:

ramanujan

esel wrote: »

Funnily enough, failing to stop, or to keep your vehicle stationary for testing, is an offence. They can and will pursue you, and I wouldn't bank on them staying under the limit if you don't. In this scenario, I'd say that Garda assistance would be requested.

In the recesses of my mind I remember being told that Customs can run a vehicle off the road if it fails to stop for them. This was in the old pre-troubles smuggling days though. I don't know if it still applies, but I wouldn't like to test it. :eek:

I was clearly making a poor joke regarding the getaway at 52kph, and mentioned that gardai would be called. Way to ruin it!

Customs have lost most of their powers unfortunately, been a few court cases were customs officials where prosecuted by the gardai for speeding in recent times. So they would be reluctant to get involved in any sort of chase, although they do "tail" vehicles frequently.

Esel

ramanujan wrote: »

I was clearly making a poor joke regarding the getaway at 52kph, and mentioned that gardai would be called. Way to ruin it!

Customs have lost most of their powers unfortunately, been a few court cases were customs officials where prosecuted by the gardai for speeding in recent times. So they would be reluctant to get involved in any sort of chase, although they do "tail" vehicles frequently.

Not trying to spoil your joke, mate! I knew by the 52km/h bit that it was tongue in cheek.

I'm interested in your comment about customs officers being prosecuted for speeding though. I must have have missed that. Can you give any more information or links on this?

Also, I would have thought that their powers have increased rather than decreased. Can you give any examples where they have lost powers?

Cionád

esel wrote: »

Although I don't like replying to a twice-resurrected thread, here goes:

Gah!, i read the whole first page before I realised! :mad:

cancan

I often see these threads about how unfair VRT is blah blah blah

Simple fact is that I have not seen one protest regarding vrt, but execpt for a few threads here and there.

Until that happens, expect taxes to go up more and more, because from the government stand point, the motorist hasn't said boo, as they have raised and raised taxes.

So either shut up and pay it, or go do something about it.
Whining on a internet forum is not going to change anything.

If you can't afford the vrt, you can't afford the car - full stop.

Guy:Incognito

hot4teacher wrote: »

I've just shelled out nearly 8 grand in VRT here. If I was to import the same car into Belgium, it would have cost me a massive 36 euro!!

Why go straight for the lower end. Why not use one of the more expensive countries as an example? ie Holland.