Anti-social Sister - Please Help before she Kills herself!

LegacyUser

Ok, I am definitely going unregged for this one, and I would just ask, if anyone recognise me from my style of writing, or from things that I have said regarding this matter in the past, they they don't blow my cover.
Someone did this before, and it kind of defeats the purpose of posting unregged in the first place. This thread actually might be better suited to the Parenting, or Humanity's forum - but I can't post unregged there, so feel free to move if you think it would receive a better response somewhere else.

Now, where the hell do I start?

My sister, she is 19 years old, and right now she is in the Mater hospital. Last night, from what we have been told, she was drinking, heavily, had a row with her BF (a charming young man who has never worked a day in his life, has been locked up twice, is on the dole, and every other benefit going, lives in a quaint little eastern health-board home, and whose family were actually petitioned out of their area and moved) she attacker her boyfriend, clawed the face off him, he grabbed her by the throat, rattled her a bit, another guy stepped in and ended up with a sprained ankle for his troubles - then my sister fell to the ground and had a seizure.
The guy with the sprained ankle panicked, went to call an ambulance, he BF tried to stop him, saying "Leave her, just put her on the bed she'll come out of it, she's done this before".
The other guy did call the ambulance though, thank God, and he also called here to tell us what had happened.

My mam was so upset, but I can't tell you that she didn't see this coming. She said herself, she has been waiting on a call like this for a long time.

For the purpose of this thread I am going to call my sister, JANE, and her BF, JACK.

Jane was always a bit of a wild thing, from very early on. I can remember little things, like hearing she was kissing boys from our area, when she was 11 and 12.
Ha, that actually kinda makes me smile now, but back then it was a big thing, especially for me, as I hadn't kissed anyone until I was 15, and I had just assumed she would be the same.
But we are very different, as the oldest, I was a bit naive, a bit babyish, but Jane was always trying to be much older then she was.

When she was about 13, my dad built a big shed out the back, it was huge, more like a little granny flat, and we used it to hang out with friends.

We found loads of deodorant sprays out there, always empty ones, and one day my mam walked in on Jane, on her own, sniffing from the can.

It wasn't long afterward, aged 14, that we heard stories of her taking hash, and drinking.

She was ALWAYS in trouble in school, and her friends, well, they left a lot to be desired.
She used to hang around with the biggest scum bags, people I would have crossed the road to avoid.

I can remember one night, and I am actually laughing thinking back on it, some kid called to our door at 12.30 at night.
No one ever called to out door that late, its a family home, and at the time, my youngest sister was only 7, so he kinda woke the whole house up.

I answered it, and the kid was about 5 foot 5, tops, and he looked like TuPac, with the bandanna and everything.

"Is Jane there", he slurred. "Who the fcuk are you?", I said, "Eh the name if FiJay, and I asked you, is Jane there or what" he says.

"DAD! DAD! There's some knacker at the door with a bandanna on his head, called FiJay, he's looking for Jane, come quick" I screamed.

My dad bounded down the stairs and FiJay took off like a bat out of hell, ha ha ha!

Ah I laugh now, but at the time it was just a sign of things to come.

She got worse, at 15 and 16 she started to vanish.
My dad would wake me up and ask me t come with him, looking for her, at 3 and 4 in the morning.

We would trawl the streets and often find her semi conscious in parks, or fields, surrounded by scores of teens in a similar state.

It seemed like we were the only family who gave a ****, cos every-time we searched for her, and would knock at the other kids doors, there parents more or less looked at us like we were mental for bothering.
They didn't know where their kids were, and hey didn't seem to care either.

"They'll come home when their hungry" - was the general consensus.

But that was good enough for my parents, they wanted to know where their teenage daughter was. Wanted to know she was ok.

Aged about 16, she got even worse. I managed to get a hold of her mobile one day, and I went through her txt messages.

I found that she was now taking coke, and not only was she taking it, but she could 'get some for ya', if you wanted it.
Also, she was having sex, and I now know that she became sexually active at 15.
I know a lot of people lose their virginity at 15 or 16, but my lil sis wasn't in a nice little relationship, she was fueled up on drink and drugs and having sex with lads, who from all account's, couldn't give 2 fcuks about her.

I told my mam about the messages, about the coke, not the sex, and my mam refused to believe me, thought I must have got the wrong end of the stick. If only!

Over the next few months she got involved with a guy who everyone seemed to know, the guys house was hooked up with CCTV cameras.
I remember one night, Jane hadn't some home, again, and her phone was off, and my mam was starting to worry.
It was 4 in the morning, and I went with my dad, to this guys house.
When we drove up the road he lives on, his sensor lights came on, and a guy immediately came out to the door.
At first, he was really scary, "who the **** are ya and what do you want?", he said.
After we explained, he calmed down a bit, and took us on a walk. We walked to a halting site, not joke, where we found my sister, her BF, and 2 travelers.
Vomit everywhere, and empty bottles and cans all over the place.

I thought my dad was going to cry.

All the while, Jane is still in school, and a week doesn't go by that my mam isn't contacted by the school for one reason or another.

When Jane was 17, nearly 18, I woke up to hear lots of voices downstairs, ran down to find Jane, lying face down, on the living room floor, and the door swinging wide open.

I shouted for my mam and dad, and ran outside, to see who had been in the house, what had happened.

I found 3 little girls, aged about 18, tiny little things, nice girls, they were students, renting a house in the area, and had seen Jane, lying in the street, on the road that our house in on.

She was lying there, and had pi$$ed herself, and was crying, and they asked her where she lived, they helped her up, and when she recognised our house, they brought her inside, but were too afraid to wake anyone because, in their words, "we could have been knackers".

I thanked the girls from bringing her home, and back inside, my mam was in tears, wanted to take her to the hospital.
We rang her friends, who had left her to make her way home in that state, and they said they didn;t realise she was that bad.

Now, all of the above was pretty bad, but at least, when she was under 18, my parents had some 'rights' where she was concerned.

As soon as she turned 18 things just went from bad to worse.

She took up with the little scum bag that she is with now. The drinking, that's is a daily occurrence - I actually believe her to be an alcoholic, but obviously its not my place to diagnose.

Any remotely decent friend she had is long gone.

She disappears for days on end, without so much as a text message, and she never answers her phone.

My mam, she looks like sh1t. She doesn't sleep, doesn't eat, is convinced that any day the guards will knock at the door to tell us she's dead.

We have all turned into private detectives, spying on her, through old friends, people who know her - I have even managed to get into her phone account, online, to see who she has been calling, and when - just to give us a better idea as to who to call the next time she goes missing.

One of the lads in the Eastern Health-board house that her BF live in, he befriended my mam, and calls her whenever anything really bad happens.

She has an incredibly violent relationship with her boyfriend. It's not that he beats her, thy actually physically fight with each other, matching each other punch for punch.

On more then one occasion she has come in with blood all over her clothes, and we will get a text from one of our spies to explain to us how it happened.

She has no relationship with anyone here, in that she doesn't confide in anyone, she doesn't even get upset and look for comfort from anyone here, she doesn't let anyone into her world.

Sometimes I hate her, I really do - I can't even stand to look at her.

She seemed to have a knack for ruining big events.
Like, my parents 25 wedding anniversary - no one saw her for 3 days, like my graduation from college, we get a text explaining what trouble she is in, and then my mam didn't want to go to my Grad, she wanted to go t her instead.
Christmas day, last year, my parents bought her 2 new mckenzi tracksuits, which she loves, a pink GHD and a mobile!!!
She ate her dinner, sneaked out of the house and we didn;t see her for the rest of that day, Stephen's day, or the following day.
She just turned her phone off and vanished.
These might sound like little petty things, but this is ALL the time, she ruins everything - and I know she has a problem, but it is hard to be so understanding when its your family that is suffering as a result.

We haven't actually managed to have one 'holiday' day, or special occasion go by, in the last 4 years, that didn't involve everyone being preoccupied with what was happening with Jane. I am not exaggerating here.


Wow, this is a post and a half, and I could go on, and on, just telling more stories, giving more examples, but what difference will it make?

What difference can I make, can a family make, how can we fix this?
Can we fix this?
She is going to kill herself, I have no doubt about that.

What can we do, we have tried everything, you name the approach, we have tried it.

The nice approach, the mean approach, screaming and shouting, hugging and kissing - you name it, it has been done.

Where do we go from here? Please, someone, tell me how we can fix this?

I need advice, we need advice, my mam is going to make herself sick with all this worrying.

Please, just help!

Beruthiel

You poor thing.
I honestly don't know what can be done at this stage. It could have been stoped at age 12 depending on the relationship your parents had fostered with her.

When she is sober can she be approched by you or one of your parents?
Can she be talked to during that time? Does she see sense in the cold light of day?

I will wait to see what Thaed has to say with regards to committing someone (she's got all the links ) It would be fantastic if you could.

At 19 she's an adult now and can basically tell you to fuk off, she probably will. It must be stopped now though before she does something to herself that there is no coming back from.

Her behaviour suggests a girl who has something going on in her head that effects everything she does. Did anything happen to her when she was younger? She seems so distructive that something surely must have. Does she want to die, have you asked her that question? She has lost all respect for herself, you, your parents, life itself. There just has to be a reason for that, if she is to be brought back, the reason for this must be found out.

What does she do for money? If your parents give her any then that should be stopped straight away.

She ate her dinner, sneaked out of the house and we didn;t see her for the rest of that day, Stephen's day, or the following day.
She just turned her phone off and vanished.

If my daughter did that to me there would be absolute hell to pay for it, to put your parents through the worry of that is selfishness in the extreem.

It would be fantastic if you could get her into some sort of detox programme and get her talking to professionals.
My heart goes out to your parents, I hope you can get it sorted.

LegacyUser

Beruthiel wrote:

You poor thing.
I honestly don't know what can be done at this stage. It could have been stoped at age 12 depending on the relationship your parents had fostered with her.

I agree with you. They were blind to a lot of her behaviour early one. They just didn't want to believe it, I think.
She was a good kid in primary school. She used to want to be a teacher. She was a quiet little girl, bubbly, so smiley. Loved dancing, and used to dance in shows, and in competitions.
As soon as he hit her teens, and went to secondary school, she just completely changed, and I cant think if a 'defining' reason as to why.
There was no major changes here, in our home, so I honestly don;t know what sparked her behaviour.

Beruthiel wrote:

When she is sober can she be approched by you or one of your parents?
Can she be talked to during that time? Does she see sense in the cold light of day?

Well, I don;t think she is ever truly sober. My dad is completely convinced that she's ' not right in the head', as a result of drug taking.
God Bless him, he sends away for information on the after effects of drug and alcohol abuse, and he really thinks she could have 'damaged' herself.
He could be right.
I think the only days she doesn't drink are days she spends here, which is maybe once a week, at a push you might get her twice a week.
She will show up, wash, wash her clothes, feed herself, get into her PJ's, and be really friendly with my mam - who is so delighted to have her there -is really friendly back, and would do anything for her.

Then she will go out the following day, and vanish again for another 3 or 4 nights.
The funny, if you can even use that word here, thing is, if you asked her were she lives, she would say here. Despite the fact that she is away 5 or 6 nights of the week.
She hasn't 'moved out, not officially, she is just never here.

Beruthiel wrote:

I will wait to see what Thaed has to say with regards to committing someone (she's got all the links ) It would be fantastic if you could.

Well my mam just called home, they are giving my sister a brain scan, and my mam has requested that they psychologically assess her.

You see, everyone on boards is very tech savvy, net savvy, and for the most part, educated to a 3rd level standard.

My parents are typical Irish parents, they don't know how to txt, can't work a DVD player, and up until now, would have dismissed the thoughts of counseling, rehab, and the likes, as being very Hollywood.

They are trying their best, but it is hard for them, this world is not one they are familiar with.

They have learned a lot, and very quickly, over the last year, but previously they would have been very naive to the dangers, and also to the methods that could be used to address the dangers.

Beruthiel wrote:

At 19 she's an adult now and can basically tell you to fuk off, she probably will. It must be stopped now though before she does something to herself that there is no coming back from.

Her behaviour suggests a girl who has something going on in her head that effects everything she does. Did anything happen to her when she was younger? She seems so distructive that something surely must have. Does she want to die, have you asked her that question?

We have asked her so many questions over the years that she just doesnt answer anymore, she completely clams up, you get a whole lot of 'whatevers' and 'leave me alones', but you never get any answers.

Beruthiel wrote:

What does she do for money? If your parents give her any then that should be stopped straight away.

She never had a job, and we never knew where she got the money from. She did a fas course for a while, and used to get a few quid for that.
About 1.5 months ago my Mam got her a job, where she works.
This is her first job, but she is going to get the sack.
Not a week has gone by that she hasn't called in sick at least once.

I have seen my mam giving her money before, and you wouldn;t believe the rows it caused.
Like you, I questioned them, asked them why they were giving it to her.
My mam would say something completely stupid like, "ah she is just going into town", to the pictures, or, "she just needs to buy a nice suit for interviews", or, the best one, "ah its her friends birthday, all the little girls are going out, actually, will you lend her your bag and your shoes, I'm going to buy her a little outfit to wear, so she looks nice."
Ha, she actually has, on a few occasions, had a lovely day with my sis, gone into town, bought her a whole new outfit, had lunch, helped her to get ready, given her the money to go out, and then not seen her for days afterward.
Every-time she would be so hurt, so upset, she really believe THAT time was going to be different.
Sometimes I feel sorry for my mother, and other times I just want to give her a slap and tell her to cop on!

Beruthiel wrote:

It would be fantastic if you could get her into some sort of detox programme and get her talking to professionals.
My heart goes out to your parents, I hope you can get it sorted.

Well, so do I.

I swear, if they had some programme on the other side of the world that would take her, and we thought she would actually go, and do it right. I would, I swear to God, I would pack in my job and go with her, and help her to set up a new life.

I guess, ultimately, she has got to want it for herself, and I know, right now, she just doesn't want it.

monkeyfudge

My sister would have always been of a similar temperament.

I agree with Beruthiel in that there may have been a childhood incident. My sister was abused as a child and she always held my parents responsible for letting her down, although it really wasn't their fault. But every irresponsible act of hers over the years seems to be some attempt to get back at and upset my parents.

I could rattle off tonnes of similar stories, but I'm afraid I can't offer much advice. My sister abused cocaine and cannabis for many years, that stuff will cause irreparable mental damage, and she developed Schizophrenia. I've never found that she was ever really willing to work on trying to get better, it was yet another way for her to upset the parents. And unfortunately she has a young son who is mixed up in all of this you we have to make sure to protect, he's the absolute priority.

Personally I've completely given up on her and have no more contact as the last time I saw her she tried to murder me by sticking a knife in my chest. But I help my parents out in raising her son.

But as for your sister, I'd say she's heading down a similar road. The psychiatric hospitals are full of young people like this. All I can suggest is that you have good health insurance in place for when it happens so you don't break the bank or have her ending up in a place like St. Ita's.

Beruthiel

That's terrible Monkey.
I think it all depends on each person though. My sis, although not as bad, drank from age 14. Herself and two other friends did this non-stop through their teens. I really worried for her. At age 21 her friend was told she would die due to the amount of liver damage if she didn't stop. From somewhere all three of them snapped out of it and live good lives now. I suppose the come back was not as difficult for them. But you never know.

justDONTknow wrote:

I agree with you. They were blind to a lot of her behaviour early one. They just didn't want to believe it

What a shame, a lot of parents prefer to sweep stuff under the carpet then to face it.

As soon as he hit her teens, and went to secondary school, she just completely changed, and I cant think if a 'defining' reason as to why.
There was no major changes here, in our home, so I honestly don;t know what sparked her behaviour.

Could have been who she was hanging around with. My daughter also changed at 14. After questioning her and not letting up till I had answers, I found out quite a bit about the people around her self harming, drinking, sex etc... Luckily I managed to get her early, through a lot of discussion she came to understand why people do this to themselves. She dropped them as friends, a hard thing to do at that age.

Well my mam just called home, they are giving my sister a brain scan, and my mam has requested that they psychologically assess her.

If your sis had agreed to getting that much done, then this is the time to go the whole hog.

My parents are typical Irish parents, they don't know how to txt, can't work a DVD player, and up until now, would have dismissed the thoughts of counseling, rehab, and the likes, as being very Hollywood.

It is so very badly needed, make them understand this is, do whatever it takes to get it into their heads.

They are trying their best, but it is hard for them, this world is not one they are familiar with.

I don't believe that. My Da is 67 and is always on the net, if he needs to know something he looks it up. You can teach them. They maybe old, that doesn't mean their stupid.

My mam would say something completely stupid like, "ah she is just going into town", to the pictures, or, "she just needs to buy a nice suit for interviews"

Your mother is absolutely not helping the situation, she's adding to it. You have to be cruel to be kind. Your sister is not getting a job anytime soon, there is no need for new clothes.

"ah its her friends birthday, all the little girls are going out, actually, will you lend her your bag and your shoes, I'm going to buy her a little outfit to wear, so she looks nice."

jayus!
Your Ma needs a reality check pronto!

Every-time she would be so hurt, so upset, she really believe THAT time was going to be different.
Sometimes I feel sorry for my mother, and other times I just want to give her a slap and tell her to cop on!

There are places people can go to talk about their relatives, it would do your parents no harm to attend one and realise how they are being manipulated.

I guess, ultimately, she has got to want it for herself, and I know, right now, she just doesn't want it.

And she won't, not until something happens that makes her snap out of it and think, that would be a near death experience or something equally drastic.

Motley Crue

its quite simple. id make sure your sister breaks it off with this guy, if she hasnt already, and id make her realise NOW (while shes in hospital and shes confined to a bed and she cant leave the room and she realises shes had a scare) what the hell trouble has been caused and how wild shes been. all i can say is good luck, but if you ignore this in any slight way and dont take drastic action now, u wont get away with it.

Beruthiel

Motley Crue wrote:

(while shes in hospital and shes confined to a bed and she cant leave the room and she realises shes had a scare) what the hell trouble has been caused and how wild shes been.

Agreed
Now is the perfect time to talk to the doctor in charge of her, tell him everything and see if he can come up with some suggestions.

secret_squirrel

Bear in mind that nothing like this has ever happened to me so I'm speaking purely about what I would like to think I would do in a similar situation.

Nothing you can do will change things if your sister doesnt want to change.

You're whole family sounds like they have tried being supportive and it has achieved nothing. Your sister doesnt appreciate it and has been taking advantage of it.

May I suggest a bit of tough love is in order? Both you and your parents need to let your sister make a decision herself that she needs help. Tough love is one way to do this.

1. Get her committed if possible, if she's over 18 Im not sure how realistic this is.
2. Throw her out until she gets her act together. Make it clear that you love her but are not longer going to support her destructive behaviour in any way shape or form.

Do some research on the Web about tough love - you might find something helpful.

Only when she makes a conscious decision to get her life in order can you help her. Until then you are píssing in the wind.

Tell her this - then let her go. No contact, no help, no money until she gets her act together. Make it clear that she can come to you for help and support when she's ready to make the first step.

Your parents - especially your mum need to realise some of what they are doing is re-inforcing her behaviour. You know this needs to stop.

Its sad but unless she decides to help herself, you cant.

Beruthiel

secret_squirrel wrote:

Make it clear that you love her but are not longer going to support her destructive behaviour in any way shape or form.

I have to say, if I was put in this position, I would give my daughter two choices.

I would tell her I'm there for her in anyway she needs my support, but only if she committes herself and stays there until the doctors tell me she's well on the way to getting her life back.
or
She can pack her stuff and get out, all support cut off.
A terribly harsh thing to do, which would probably break my heart, but there is no alternative to those two choices.

LegacyUser

Hi, Just a few thoughts for what they are worth

1. It seems your sister and mother still have at least some relationship. True, it's not in any way perfect but there is something there to work on. Use this if possible.

2. At this point your sis above all needs support. From your posts it's very obvious she has had that from your family but either hasn't seen it or hasn't wanted it. Keep trying and do not give up on her.

3. Be very careful about committing her to a psychiatric hospital. The standard of care in this country for psych services is very poor. Most likely she will be given drugs and very little therapeutic work done with her. Psych drugs alone will stop the symptoms but won't deal with the underlying problem and will often change a person after they have taken them. I'll declare an interest here, I work for the health board, in care services though not psychiatic. (That is not to say it doesn't work for some people, just it should be the VERY last resort.)

4. This relationship with her boyfriend fulfils some need for her - be it someone to drink and take drugs with or someone to vent her anger on. It's not healthy but it is all she can do for herself at this point in time. She needs an alternative coping strategy and needs to believe an alternative coping strategy can work. Your sister seems to be a very angry and messed up young woman. Remember her behaviour is a symptom of this anger and is her way of dealing with her feelings at this point in time.

I hope the above is useful and feel free to disagree if it doesn't apply to your case. My very best to you and your family. Good luck.

Odaise Gaelach

Beruthiel wrote:

I have to say, if I was put in this position, I would give my daughter two choices.

I would tell her I'm there for her in anyway she needs my support, but only if she committes herself and stays there until the doctors tell me she's well on the way to getting her life back.
or
She can pack her stuff and get out, all support cut off.
A terribly harsh thing to do, which would probably break my heart, but there is no alternative to those two choices.

Yeah, I really can't think of anything else. I'm sorry OP, I know it's been hard for you. Hang in there.

LegacyUser

Beruthiel wrote:

I have to say, if I was put in this position, I would give my daughter two choices. A terribly harsh thing to do, which would probably break my heart, but there is no alternative to those two choices.

Odaise Gaelach wrote:

Yeah, I really can't think of anything else. I'm sorry OP, I know it's been hard for you. Hang in there.

Could one of the mods pls clean up my post above, not sure what happened there. As for the quotes above, this just makes me sad.... there is never only 2 options in a case like this. I don't believe in absolutes, there are always alternatives.

Rb

Beruthiel wrote:

A terribly harsh thing to do, which would probably break my heart, but there is no alternative to those two choices.

Exactly.

From what the OP has said, it seems they've tried and tried but the daughter has just walked all over their support knowing that no matter what, she can still go back the the family home when she needs something be it money, clean clothes etc.

IMO she should be given that choice i.e either get committed and get help so that she can hopefully get her act together and make something of her life, or get out of the family home and support herself i.e turn your (the familys) back on her.

Simply because, as the OP has shown, her parents are far too soft. She could have disappeared for days but then she'll turn up and the mother will be nice and give her exactly what she wants or needs because she turned back up. The family are being trodden on, and it seems its been going on quite a while, so to her sure why should she change how she is?Since its clear she gets away with it as is, but it really needs to stop now (best time given whats happened afterall).

I can't say much else unfortunately, as I haven't been in the position myself nor can I speak from a parental point of view, but good luck OP and I hope she pulls her life together before it goes even further downhill.

Savman

imo all the behaviour up til 16 is the norm. Find me a teenager who doesn't go drinking in public parks and stays out til all hours, there's very few.

Sorry I can't offer any advice, only solidarity.

LegacyUser

'Ok, its getting difficult to write here now without saying something that could easily identify myself or my family.
I don;t think I know anyone on Boards from my home life, but there are a lot of people on this site - so you never know who you could run into.
This post is more about my relationship with my sister, as apposed to it being all about how to help her.
My sister rang me on Saturday, from her hospital bed - she said 'just talk to me, about anything', so I did.
This is hard for me, as I said already, sometimes I really hate my sister. I can't stand the sight of her.
I hate when she is in the house, sometimes, because she causes such tension and bad feeling.Often, if she is hanging about downstairs I will just go out, or go and sit in ym room and watch TV.
I don't like being around her, because she is like a poison, in my eyes, and she has the ability to wind me up.
Sometimes its not even her actions that annoy me, and other times my parents annoy me, by running around after her.
I know that's very childish, I really do, I know I am only creating even more barriers, but years of this bull sh1t have just taken their tole.
Sometimes I think she wants me to be her friend, but there have been times when she will ask my opinion on an outfit, etc, and I give it to her, help her do her hair, lend her my shoes, a jacket, etc.
We will chat, and be girly, and I will say, nicely, "Now come home tonight, wont you? Don't go disappearing on us again, because it's not fair. Every-time you vanish the whole house is worried sick about you, you know that?" and she will reply, eyes to the ground, giving the appearance of being remorseful, and will say something like "yeah, i know, I'm sorry about that, I will come home. And she will go out, and I will think, wow, we bonded, maybe I got through to her.... and then we wont see her for days, and I will be so angry I just want to find her and punch her for making me feel so bloody stupid.
When she says these things, she seems so sincere. She seems so greatful that I am being nice to her, and seems to really mean what she says.. I actually believe that when she says it, she means it.... but once she leaves the house, she just seems to succumb to whatever temptations are on offer.
It's like she just isn't a strong enough person to say no!
I never really did the peer pressure thing, but she always has done, she will always go with the crowd, she just can't say no.
Well, anyhow, she looked like death when she came home form the hospital, says she has epilepsy, and no iron in her body, or something like that.
The dick head that she is with had chocked her, but not in the heat of the moment - in a very calculated way - he knew exactly where to press to cut off her air supply and leave her unconscious.
I asked her was she finally done with him, she said yeah, I said "look, I am not getting onto you, but you have said that before, is this time for real?", and she said yes.
His lunatic mother rang my sister, and here is what she said "my young fella is suicidal over you, you fcking selfish cnut ya, I swear to God, if he harms himself, I'll hunt you fcuking down".
My sis actually spoke to her, calming her down, I would have turned my phone off and changed my number, but she didn't.
We are dealing with real scum bags here. People who don't think, or function like normal civilised human beings, because they are not normal, civilised human beings.
My sis hung about the house all day St and Sun, and yesterday my Dad said "you better start inviting her out with you now, be a bit more friendly with her".
This is just so hard, I mean, I know I could help, but I have been burned so many times before, a big part of me just wants to tell her to fcuk off and cop on.
Even this morning, she wanted my hair straightener, I mumbled something, cos I was half asleep, and then my mam starts ringing my mobile, telling me to give her the hair straightener.
It bugs me that she has the ability to make people jump for her like this, was she has given nothing positive to our home.'

b3t4

OP, why don't you and your family go for counselling and support so that ye are better able to deal with your sister. It's not only your sister that needs help here.

It's very hard, if impossible, to get someone to change if they are being forced to do so.

If you and your family get support and the tools in place for yeerselves if might make getting your sister to get help easier.

My advise would be for ye to concentrate on yeerselves and hope that this will lead to your sister seeking the help and support she needs.

Beruthiel

justDONTknow

A lot of good advice has been given to you on this thread.
Will you be doing anything to sort this?

I had to edit your post btw, something is wrong with the code when posting un-regged. I had to fix it.

Faith

Maybe I missed this in your first post OP, but when your parents found the deoderant cans in the shed, what did they do? Then when they found out that she was drinking and smoking hash, what did they do? Maybe you just left it out, but it doesn't sound as if your parents have really tried to discipline your sister, especially when she was younger and easier to control. Lots of teenagers act out as a way of getting noticed and getting attention. Maybe what she really wanted was to be given out to, to be grounded, or whatever. Then again, I could be completely wrong and your parents could have tried their best to punish her.

I think a problem with a lot of parents is that they find it hard striking a balance between being a friend to their child, and being a parent. I think it would be a good idea for your whole family to go to counselling. There is a reason for Jane's behaviour, and you have to find out what it is. Meanwhile, I think your parents need to toughen up with her. She's acted appallingly and her behaviour came back to bite her in the ass. Now it sounds like your parents are just mollycoddling her. This isn't helping anyone. They should be keeping her in the house, under close scrutiny, as far as I'm concerned, not encouraging you to take her out.

If your parents don't change something, then she will just go back to how she was. However, I'm not a counsellor or a psychologist, so I can't offer any solid advice, except to get professional help.

LegacyUser

As a father and the eldest brother with younger teenage siblings your post is my worst nightmare man. I really feel for you and your family. The only thing I can think for you and your family to do is an Intervention style meeting with all friends and family who love and want to help her. Have the help she needs on stand bye and tell her bluntly that she needs help and you all want to help get her the help she needs. If she refuses, you all will have nothing to do with her. I know it’s drastic, but I don’t see any other way to get her into a program which will help save her life.

I hope she accepts your help and gets onto the road to recovery.

I know this is drastic, but if I was you or if it was my daughter or sister I would have a quite word with the boyfriend telling him to feck off away from her and if he did not, he would not walk again… I am dead serious on this. I don’t condone violence at all, but sometimes it’s the only way a little scumbag like that will listen.

Good Luck.

LegacyUser

Beruth, I have actually read a lot of what people have posted to my parents..
The suggestions that she may have been abused really upset them, and I really don't think, I and I certainly hope, it is not the case.

Faith, I agree, I don't think she was disciplined properly in the beginning, and a lot of what has happened could have been avoided had my parents taken their blinkers off.

Unfortunately though, there is not much point in looking back at what we 'could' have done.

Its all about what we do from here.

The kid has no friends, and I can see why. Like I said, I know she needs a friend, but I am finding it very difficult to be that friend.

I am trying though, trying to not be so angry and judgemental - its so difficult, with all that has happened, but I will give it a shot.

Maybe I can open her eyes to a 'NORMAL' world.

If she could just see how nice it can be to have a little job, money in your pocket, to be able to go shopping on a saturday afternoon, and go out on the town with a gang of girls - to be able to buy a little car, or book a holiday with your friends - just basic stuff that girls her age should be doing - i think she would like it.

tbh

op, my sympathies. There's not much to say here, but hopefully posting has helped you get things off your chest. The bottom line is, you can't fix this problem without getting some outside help. It'd be like trying to do a liver transplant with just the manuals for reference - you need expert intervention. I would try :

Narcotics Anonymous Ireland at: Regional Office, 4/5 Eustace Street, Dublin 2.PO Box 1368, Cardiff Lane, Dublin 2.Tel: +353 (0)1 6728000

If you parents can't/won't contact these guys, you probably should yourself - it's not just your sister that needs help dealing with this situation.

tbh

justDONTknow wrote:

Beruth, I have actually read a lot of what people have posted to my parents..
The suggestions that she may have been abused really upset them, and I really don't think, I and I certainly hope, it is not the case.

Faith, I agree, I don't think she was disciplined properly in the beginning, and a lot of what has happened could have been avoided had my parents taken their blinkers off.

Unfortunately though, there is not much point in looking back at what we 'could' have done.

Its all about what we do from here.

The kid has no friends, and I can see why. Like I said, I know she needs a friend, but I am finding it very difficult to be that friend.

I am trying though, trying to not be so angry and judgemental - its so difficult, with all that has happened, but I will give it a shot.

Maybe I can open her eyes to a 'NORMAL' world.

If she could just see how nice it can be to have a little job, money in your pocket, to be able to go shopping on a saturday afternoon, and go out on the town with a gang of girls - to be able to buy a little car, or book a holiday with your friends - just basic stuff that girls her age should be doing - i think she would like it.

Op, with the greatest respect in the world -I don't think you are going to help your sister by 'forcing' yourself on her, and 'opening her eyes' - that assumes that she's not able to figure this stuff out for herself - maybe there is an underlying reason why she is the way she is, and she might resent you if you start to try to 'snap her out of herself'. OK, there is a need for tough love, but there is also a need to tread carefully. I'm not saying you are wrong, and I'm not saying that it wouldn't help, I'm just saying - baby steps. it sounds to me like she's way past the stage of just having her eyes opened, i think she needs to be broken down and rebuilt - but i totally think thats possible with the right help.

Also, to everyone calling her b/f a scumbag - not helpful. it seems to me like this girl would have gotten herself into this state with or without the b/f. To the neutral observer, the sister could be called a scumbag as easily as the b/f, but we know she's not, cause we know a bit of her backstory. Her problems have not been caused by the b/f, and getting him out of the pic will not cure them, although it would certainly help. The bottom line is, she has to want to do these things for herself, not because she feels everyone wants her to.

IMO.

jimmy rodgers

My younger sister has a mental illness. Amoungst the feelings I have regarding her condition is the dread that she will eventually kill herself. While the situation is different in some ways to what you describe it is similar in others.

I wont go into any of the stories of things that have happened etc. - the main difference is that my sister has a serious diagnosis so I feel doubly bad because its as if all my feelings of anger around what she is putting the family through are invalid. This is because since she actually has an illness, none of what she does is her own fault.

The similarity is in the reactions of the people who love her to whats going on. My mother is also useless at confronting the issues - even though all the literature says that family members should not bottle these things up for the sake of their own mental health, each time something happens my mother will not let us talk to my sister about how we are feeling in case it makes her sick again. My mother then represses everything and goes to live in lala land pretending everything is going to be fine but shes hardly even fooling herself with that anymore. So we all follow her lead while stewing inside and waiting with horror for the next episode to happen...

But theres nothing we can do that we arent already doing - my sister is an adult and we cant lock her up or force her to take her medication. I dont really have any advice for you, and I'm not sure if there is anything you can do apart from trying to keep yourself mentally healthy amidst all the madness. I just wanted to say that I think that your anger is perfectly natural and I know exactly how you feel.

secret_squirrel

OP - Im going to be blunt here.

When can you move out of your house?

Quite frankly if you are ever going to have a normal life you need to be out of the way of both your sister and your parents.

Rather than worrying about your sister you need to worry about yourself first and foremost.

Everything you have described here suggests your sister is utterly manipulative, and your parents happily respond to that manipulation.

Resorting to phoning you (presumably you were in bed upstairs?) to get a pair of hair straighteners, just shows your Ma is a hopeless case. She will always be manipulated by your sister. WTF? Thats mad.

I honestly think your emotional wellbeing - if not your sanity - is at stake here. I dont believe you're in an environment where its at all healthy to stay, your parents and sister are locked into an unbearable unhealthy relationship that will only drag you down to.

If its at all possible I would leave the family home, explaining to your parents that you are not willing to tolerate watching them contribute to your sisters mess. If necessary write the reasons in a letter - with examples.

I have to say I'm seeing your sisters state as more and more a product of your parents.

FranknFurter

To be honest,...
I think it sounds like you are almost in as bad an emotional state as her but in a very different way, however, one vital thing, your emotional needs are being ignored.

Your sister is an adult now, and while being there to help her and love her is all well and good, she has to accecpt it and want it before it will be usefull.
It seems, for now, she does neither. She seems still to be into manipulating others for her own benefit.
All those events you mention, obviously affected you a lot, but to her are still probably painfull blurry moments at best until she is sober.

You, imho, need to think about you and find help for yourself.
Many of the org's out there have familly support projects also, I suggest you look into them. Or ask your college guidence counsellor or GP to recommend one.

You have put a lot of years into trying to help her, now, put some into helping yourself. So that you dont find yourself looking over the edge into a future you can't see.

Best of luck,

B

greenkittie

secret_squirrel wrote:

OP - Im going to be blunt here.

When can you move out of your house?

Quite frankly if you are ever going to have a normal life you need to be out of the way of both your sister and your parents.

Rather than worrying about your sister you need to worry about yourself first and foremost.

Everything you have described here suggests your sister is utterly manipulative, and your parents happily respond to that manipulation.

Resorting to phoning you (presumably you were in bed upstairs?) to get a pair of hair straighteners, just shows your Ma is a hopeless case. She will always be manipulated by your sister. WTF? Thats mad.

I honestly think your emotional wellbeing - if not your sanity - is at stake here. I dont believe you're in an environment where its at all healthy to stay, your parents and sister are locked into an unbearable unhealthy relationship that will only drag you down to.

If its at all possible I would leave the family home, explaining to your parents that you are not willing to tolerate watching them contribute to your sisters mess. If necessary write the reasons in a letter - with examples.

I have to say I'm seeing your sisters state as more and more a product of your parents.

The OP seems concerned for her whole family not just herself. Her moving out wouldnt help the situation, probably wouldnt hinder either but i see it as irrelevant.
You cannot blame this totally on the parents, they have acted as any loving parent would do. My family has a similar situation and my parents acted in the exact same way. I know for a fact there was no other way they could have acted to change the result, it would always be the same. Some times you can't just blame the parents, alot of other factors come into it.

secret_squirrel

greenkittie wrote:

The OP seems concerned for her whole family not just herself. Her moving out wouldnt help the situation, probably wouldnt hinder either but i see it as irrelevant.

The point is that her leaving protects herself, and it might just be enough to shock the parents and the sister into sorting themselves out.

greenkittie wrote:

You cannot blame this totally on the parents, they have acted as any loving parent would do. My family has a similar situation and my parents acted in the exact same way. I know for a fact there was no other way they could have acted to change the result, it would always be the same. Some times you can't just blame the parents, alot of other factors come into it.

I dont blame the parents - the sister got herself into this.

However, until the parents realise they are not helping I very much doubt the current situation will improve.

This isnt about blame. It isnt about love.

Love won't fix this situation. Hard work and self discipline might. The parents have got to cop on and stop unconsciously supporting the sister in her addictions.
The OP needs to consider all and every alternative that might achieve that.

bug

your mam sounds like she feels guilty from what you have said.
No matter what, mothers always will with a "problem" child.
"I didnt do enough" etc...

Thats possibly why she is giving in to her, in the ways that you have indicated.
That, or she actually didnt do enough to get your sis under control when it was more possible.
I know if my sister said, (and did at one stage) x is knocking round with a load of scumbags, you need to sort this, my ma would have been out after me immediatley.

Parents often make this mistake with kids who require more attention than the others. They get into a "format" of parenting with their other kids, and refuse to believe that the "problem" child will be much different than the others until its too late. The kids personality doesnt conform to the rest of the family, and they dont know how to deal with it.

Either way, your parents need a united front on how they are going to treat this situation, and pandering isnt going to do it.
She is ONLY 19. There is hope for her yet!!!

They have some choices.
If she is still in the hospital now is the time to act to get someone to speak to her, a councillor, perfect oppertunity while she is incapacitated.

Come hell or high water that bloke needs to be gone.

After the way she has lived up to now there is no way that she is going to know how it feels to have any stability, it would have to be introduced to her really gently by a professional at this stage from the sounds of it.

You personally, did everything right, and its not your responsibilty, its your parents'

They need to unite and decide what the best case of action is.
Personally if its as out of hand as you say... I would commit her to get involved in the councilling and psychiatric care that she would probably run away from if left to her own devices.
She doesnt know best, she is not in control.

Dont give up on her, later on, she might need you if she does get on the right track. She possibly, underneath it all, see's you as the enemy, the perfect child she could never be...

Your parents seem to be acting the muppet to be honest. Its not your responsibility, and you need to tell them that.
You need to make it known that their course of action right now is their choice, you are her sister, not her parent.

iguana

greenkittie wrote:

You cannot blame this totally on the parents, they have acted as any loving parent would do.

Not all parents would react this way. A few years ago one of my uncles developed severe alcoholism during the breakdown of his marriage. He moved back into my gran's house for a while on the condition that he would stop drinking. During this time he was in and out of rehab and getting counselling and my gran was going to al-anon to help her cope. But after finding vodka stashed around the house and the garden more than once my gran told him that he had to leave.

It nearly killed her to do so but she threw him out, she told him he was welcome back any time he was ready to properly quit drinking. But up until he was ready to change she wasn't going to do anything that allowed him to stay the way he was. OP your parents are enablers, they allow your sister to be the way she is and they need to stop how they are behaving.

You however enable your parents. You need to move out and get on with your own life. Tell your parents why you are going and how they need to behave, point them in the direction of a counsellor, even find their nearest al-anon meeting. Of course it won't be easy for them, but my gran was in her 70's and she got through it and my uncle is doing really well now.

secret_squirrel

iguana wrote:

OP your parents are enablers, they allow your sister to be the way she is and they need to stop how they are behaving.

You however enable your parents. You need to move out and get on with your own life. Tell your parents why you are going and how they need to behave,

^
^
What I was trying to say except far more coherent.

Dave!

Intervention wrote:

As a father and the eldest brother with younger teenage siblings your post is my worst nightmare man. I really feel for you and your family. The only thing I can think for you and your family to do is an Intervention style meeting with all friends and family who love and want to help her. Have the help she needs on stand bye and tell her bluntly that she needs help and you all want to help get her the help she needs. If she refuses, you all will have nothing to do with her. I know it’s drastic, but I don’t see any other way to get her into a program which will help save her life.

I hope she accepts your help and gets onto the road to recovery.

I know this is drastic, but if I was you or if it was my daughter or sister I would have a quite word with the boyfriend telling him to feck off away from her and if he did not, he would not walk again… I am dead serious on this. I don’t condone violence at all, but sometimes it’s the only way a little scumbag like that will listen.

Good Luck.

I agree with all of this except the last part. I'd like to kill the fella, but I'd say threatening him would only make the sister become more defensive and run into his arms.

iguana wrote:

Not all parents would react this way. A few years ago one of my uncles developed severe alcoholism during the breakdown of his marriage. He moved back into my gran's house for a while on the condition that he would stop drinking. During this time he was in and out of rehab and getting counselling and my gran was going to al-anon to help her cope. But after finding vodka stashed around the house and the garden more than once my gran told him that he had to leave.

It nearly killed her to do so but she threw him out, she told him he was welcome back any time he was ready to properly quit drinking. But up until he was ready to change she wasn't going to do anything that allowed him to stay the way he was. OP your parents are enablers, they allow your sister to be the way she is and they need to stop how they are behaving.

You however enable your parents. You need to move out and get on with your own life. Tell your parents why you are going and how they need to behave, point them in the direction of a counsellor, even find their nearest al-anon meeting. Of course it won't be easy for them, but my gran was in her 70's and she got through it and my uncle is doing really well now.

Agreed 100%

Chinafoot

Just to add to the moving out advice. This could also be very beneficial to your sister getting back on the straight and narrow. When you move out it may be easier for you and her to have a better relationship. You won't be another person annoying her at home (as she sees it anyway) and you won't be around her all the time feeling as bad as you do now. There's also the added bonus of your sister having a place to go if she needs to get out of the house for a while. This way both yourself and your parents would know exactly where she is and what she's doing.

She probably feels completely alone right now. If you can (not right away, obviously) develop a friendship with her then you can become one less person that she thinks is against her and possibly someone that she can open up to and gain proper support from.

SmoothyG

i have lots of bad news in my family so i can relate,
After fighting with them for years I opted to stay close enough to catch them when they fall and never to pass judgment,

after a yaer or so i earned the repesct by showing i cared unconditionally to have some input to the situations and slowly became in a position of confidance,

when my sis fuked up she would come to me first for help. I eventually got her and a cousin into coucelling and things have been getting better since, its a long road though and my heart goes out to you. but be strong and be there for her