Fog Lights v Driving Lights ?

maidhc

Front fog lights don't dazzle. They don't light up a whole lot, but they certainly cannot be dazzling if they are adjusted properly.

Rear fog lights on the other hand are annoying, as are maladjusted dims, and to a greater or lesser extent HID lamps.

What I do find disturbing though is people who drive at NIGHT with parking lights and Fogs on. I have seen a few instances of this, and it must be suicide driving at 100k without being able to see more than a few feet in front of you.

endplate

kerbdog wrote:

Just because guards do it doesn't make it right.
Why if your passing guards like that yea cant stop and tell them off?
Front fogs are as bad as rear fogs IMO

IMO front fogs are no problem at all

Seth Brundle

maidhc wrote:

Front fog lights don't dazzle. They don't light up a whole lot, but they certainly cannot be dazzling if they are adjusted properly.

If they are adjusted properly? The amount of cars with mis-aligned lights (fog and non-fog) is huge in this country.
However, as already mentioned, many cars fog lights are very bright as standard - Nissan Micra possibly being the worst offender.

colm_mcm

MIcra lights are always aimed incorrectly. more like main beams.

Gregor Samsa

want2play wrote:

if dazzling was an issue why is it never mentioned by manufactures or a sticker in the car or manual warning they might blind oncoming traffic in clear conditions?

I hope you're not the kind of person that the "WARNING - HOT CONTENTS" disclaimer on take-away coffee cups is aimed at. :rolleyes:

glynf

The best method I find to use:

Some flute has their front fogs on coming towards me-I flash my front fogs twice, if they don't get the message-then burn the f**kin retinas off them with the head lights.:)

I really don't care how illegal this is-they deserve it. On a long drive at night, it’s tiring enough on my eyes, so the more lumens blasting off these donkey sleds the quicker my eyes get tired, which could result in my reaction time being reduced if something happened-as in an accident. There is a legitimate reason for the law re. front & back fogs.

For the record, I have had to use my fogs twice in the last year (50k+ km’s).

Drove from Kerry to Dublin last night, every other idiot w/fogs on, tailgating, unnecessarily slowing to 70kph at bends.........then on the M50 @ 12.20am, some lunatic coming onto the motorway THE WRONG WAY down the south bound exit slip at the Tallaght exit-what goes on in their tiny little brains???
When I went to the hassle of calling the Gardai, was more or less told there was nothing they could do-time to invest in flying lessons:rolleyes:

franksm

want2play wrote:

if dazzling was an issue why is it never mentioned by manufactures or a sticker in the car or manual warning they might blind oncoming traffic in clear conditions?

LMAO

It's written on the sticker beside your cupholder that says "don't stick your hand in the cupholder, you'll get your fingers trapped, which might be sore".

Anyway - it's mentioned in the Rules of The Road ! That should be good enough for anyone

lightening

glynf wrote:

the quicker my eyes get tired

Good point, drivers who do long drives will be more aware of the affects of fog lights than the ones who don't really drive much (and leave their foglights on) In fog the luminosity of the light is diffused by the fog. When there is no fog it is difficult for oncoming drivers to see indicators if the fog light is on because of the relative brightness of the fog lights (in comparison to the indicators) this is why it is illegal to drive in no fog with your fog lights on. Athough some of you think they are not dazzling they are bright compared to your indicators. You may say this is not the case, but it is.

Alun

Agreed. You can argue all you like about whether they dazzle or not. For me, some do and some don't, but the simple fact of the matter is that it's more light, i.e. more (totally unnecessary) photons hitting the back of my retina, and that ultimately will lead to tiredness, on long drives especially.

I've even heard some ridiculous statements on here saying that you shouldn't be looking at them! Sorry, but my field of view extends beyond the 2 degrees of tunnel vision that this would require, plus, in case anybody hadn't noticed, there are such things as bends and hills in this country, meaning that even if I am staring straight ahead 2 metres in front of me, as some people here appear to advocate, I'm still going to be seeing the lights of oncoming traffic.

endplate

Can we get something straight are we discussing front of rear fogs or both. Because unless you have your head out your door window (probably while waving your fist at the driver) staring at the car lights front fogs do not dazzle. All lights will dazzle if you stare at them dips included. Why are ye staring at the lights is it not more important to look straight ahead, then the other car lights are in your preiferial (sp) vision and not in your line of sight;)

franksm

"dazzle" is a misnomer

The problem is that the human eye is able to comfortably withstand a certain amount of light, especially at night time when the variance of light differs massively. Double the amount of light (measurement = candle (cd)) and it may or may not go over the pain/comfort threshold of any particular person.

If I were to drive everywhere with my main beams on, the light variance would be less (for me) so foglit cars coming towards me would bother me less. But that's not an option

glynf

endplate wrote:

Can we get something straight are we discussing front of rear fogs or both. Because unless you have your head out your door window (probably while waving your fist at the driver) staring at the car lights front fogs do not dazzle. All lights will dazzle if you stare at them dips included. Why are ye staring at the lights is it not more important to look straight ahead, then the other car lights are in your preiferial (sp) vision and not in your line of sight;)

Fact is peoples eyes vary re. sensitivity to light-you don't have to stare at them to feel the effects.
Also, around an area with street lighting its not as noticeable.
It's just basic Courtesy to other drivers to keep them off.

If someone claims their dims are so weak that they need fogs on, time to get their eyes and/or lights checked, why should others suffer the stupidity & ignorance of these w**kers:rolleyes:

Alun

endplate wrote:

Can we get something straight are we discussing front of rear fogs or both. Because unless you have your head out your door window (probably while waving your fist at the driver) staring at the car lights front fogs do not dazzle. All lights will dazzle if you stare at them dips included. Why are ye staring at the lights is it not more important to look straight ahead, then the other car lights are in your preiferial (sp) vision and not in your line of sight;)

For gods sake, try actually reading some of the other posts properly before replying will you?

Regarding dazzling .. yes, some fog lights do dazzle, OK? Whether you personally think so or not. The ones fitted to Micra's actually seem to be brighter than the actual headlights.

However, most do not dazzle in the strict sense of the word, but read and try to understand this ... it's EXTRA LIGHT, and it's TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. The more extraneous light in your field of view, including your peripheral vision, the more tiring it is, especially after long periods of night driving. If car manufacturers suddenly decided to fit cars with front rain lights, and snow lights as well as fog lights, do you think it would be OK to put them on as well?

Oh and BTW, one of the things that some researchers in the UK came up with as one of the major contributory factors in accidents involving young inexperienced drivers, was that they only look straight ahead of them, and also too close to the front of their cars. The more experienced you get, the more you're constantly looking around you and further ahead of the front of the car for potential hazards. So, no, looking dead straight ahead of you isn't necessarily a good thing.

endplate

glynf wrote:

Fact is peoples eyes vary re. sensitivity to light-you don't have to stare at them to feel the effects.
Also, around an area with street lighting its not as noticeable.
It's just basic Courtesy to other drivers to keep them off.

If someone claims their dims are so weak that they need fogs on, time to get their eyes and/or lights checked, why should others suffer the stupidity & ignorance of these w**kers:rolleyes:

Mmm that is a personal attack IMO could get you reported for that best you edit your comment.

lightening

endplate wrote:

Mmm that is a personal attack IMO could get you reported for that best you edit your comment.

It's not a personal attack. If only your eyes were as sensitive as your feelings!

endplate

Alun wrote:

For gods sake, try actually reading some of the other posts properly before replying will you?

Regarding dazzling .. yes, some fog lights do dazzle, OK? Whether you personally think so or not. The ones fitted to Micra's actually seem to be brighter than the actual headlights.

However, most do not dazzle in the strict sense of the word, but read and try to understand this ... it's EXTRA LIGHT, and it's TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. The more extraneous light in your field of view, including your peripheral vision, the more tiring it is, especially after long periods of night driving. If car manufacturers suddenly decided to fit cars with front rain lights, and snow lights as well as fog lights, do you think it would be OK to put them on as well?

Oh and BTW, one of the things that some researchers in the UK came up with as one of the major contributory factors in accidents involving young inexperienced drivers, was that they only look straight ahead of them, and also too close to the front of their cars. The more experienced you get, the more you're constantly looking around you and further ahead of the front of the car for potential hazards. So, no, looking dead straight ahead of you isn't necessarily a good thing.

Yes I have read the posts and all I'm seeing is mindless ranting and abusive comments some even trying to confuse us with science what's that all about

It's obvious you don't look dead ahead all the time but you could try looking at the grass verge too for pedestrians that'll take your eyes of the lights

Stark

I think someone's just trolling at this stage.

lightening

endplate wrote:

Yes I have read the posts and all I'm seeing is mindless ranting and abusive comments some even trying to confuse us with science what's that all about

It's obvious you don't look dead ahead all the time but you could try looking at the grass verge too for pedestrians that'll take your eyes of the lights

Nothing confusing about the sience, its simple stuff. Just turn them off when there is no fog, that way we can all get along.

endplate

lightening wrote:

It's not a personal attack. If only your eyes were as sensitive as your feelings!

Eh yeah it is a personal attack the info used is from another post I made so cop onto yourself with your smart ass comments

Mods I think it's time to close this thread IMO

lightening

endplate wrote:

cop onto yourself with your smart ass comments

Try and keep it civil kiddo, you are the one breaking the law, you are the one with the fog lights on when there is no fog, the facts have been explained to you, the reasons explained to you in simple terms by more experienced drivers than you.

omega man

Why is it that most, if not all, cars fitted with front fog lights have seperate switches for the front and rear fog lights? All of the VAG cars i have owned have 2 seperate switches and also, why is it that the fog light -on- indication light in the dash is only activated for rear fog lights? I assume because only rear fog lights can have negative effects on other drivers in normal conditions.
Standard fronts fogs have no effect on other road users and if anything it makes the car more visable and therefore safer. Its the no lights brigade i would be more concerned with!

Alun

omega man wrote:

Why is it that most, if not all, cars fitted with front fog lights have seperate switches for the front and rear fog lights? All of the VAG cars i have owned have 2 seperate switches and also, why is it that the fog light -on- indication light in the dash is only activated for rear fog lights? I assume because only rear fog lights can have negative effects on other drivers in normal conditions.

Well, in all the cars I've driven recently, there have been warning lights for both front and rear fogs. Switches are very variable .. on my Ford it's pull the light switch once for front fogs, twice for front+rear. Maybe you should extend your sample size ...

Standard fronts fogs have no effect on other road users and if anything it makes the car more visible and therefore safer.

Sigh .. yes they do have an effect on other road users, including yours truly .. maybe they don't have an effect on you personally, and if so, then congratulations. Others here have stated that they do .. so have a bit of consideration for me and them and turn the damn things off.

Its the no lights brigade i would be more concerned with!

Why does it have to be either/or?

franksm

omega man wrote:

Why is it that most, if not all, cars fitted with front fog lights have seperate switches for the front and rear fog lights? All of the VAG cars i have owned have 2 seperate switches and also, why is it that the fog light -on- indication light in the dash is only activated for rear fog lights? I assume because only rear fog lights can have negative effects on other drivers in normal conditions.

For the MOT (and I assume the NCT) you need an indicator on the dash to show front fogs are lit. Some cars have an indicator on the dash/gauges for rear-fog, and an indicator on the switch for front fogs. All cars I have drivern/owned have been like that.

MOT/NCT may not actually test it on the day but it is there in the rulebook somewhere.

omega man wrote:

Standard fronts fogs have no effect on other road users and if anything it makes the car more visable and therefore safer. Its the no lights brigade i would be more concerned with!

But everyone here is telling you that those lights *do* affect other road users.

glynf

endplate wrote:

Mmm that is a personal attack IMO could get you reported for that best you edit your comment.

It was not meant as a personal attack, sorry if I hurt your feelings.:D

lightening

omega man wrote:

WStandard fronts fogs have no effect on other road users

Yes they do.



As explained before, when fog lights are lit up in good visability they effect the indicators. You just havent noticed. Also, some people find them to strong without the difussion of the fog. Maybe your eyes are not that sensitive or don't work as well as others in the night, but just because they don't affect you doesn't mean they don't affect anyone.

omega man

franksm wrote:

For the MOT (and I assume the NCT) you need an indicator on the dash to show front fogs are lit. Some cars have an indicator on the dash/gauges for rear-fog, and an indicator on the switch for front fogs. All cars I have drivern/owned have been like that.

MOT/NCT may not actually test it on the day but it is there in the rulebook somewhere.



But everyone here is telling you that those lights *do* affect other road users.

On VAG cars the light on the switch illuminates alright but only a warning/indication light comes on in the dash for rear fog lights. Its an observation only and i have only owned VAG cars so im no expert. My point is that VAG obviously distinguish between front and rear fogs.

hartytkd

Hi guys,

I was reading this thread and though I would make a comment. Seems like things are gettting a little heated (!) but though I would post anyway since it's something that concerns me a lot when I drive long distances.

Firstly, it's surprising how defensive people are about the little lights on the front of their cars. Why?

Secondly, if they do (as people claim) cause hardship with regards to distracting them by their eyes, why not just turn them off. Do these lights seriously enhance your driving experience?

I have to admit, I used to drive around with them on. All the time. Before I copped on and realised they are totally unneccessary, don't really add anything to the car, distract other drivers, and don't really work in foggy conditions anyway. I've also found that recently I've become more susceptable to dazzling from foglights (age.. and tiredness from staring at a PC all day I suppose!) so I've grown up and turned them off. Foglights are not *cool*, people. Get a life!

And with regards to safely, how can anything that potentially dazzles oncoming drivers increase the overall level of safety? Yes, the additional visibilty does help, but surely low-dipped headlamps are more suitable for this purpose? If I can't see your headlamps, the chance of me seeing your foglights are small, unless of course they are dazzling me.

I've actually used fog lights in foggy conditions (!) and found they actually dazzled me more than they helped me see through the fog, with excessive foreground illumination. I suspect the fog lights fitted to most car would also function similarly. Bearing in mind my lights were fitted to an M3 so I wouldn't expect them to be much less functional than the average.

A big problem with foglamps I suspect is that most of them are cheaply made, improperly aimed and are there to provide image rather than function. For those of you that do use them regularly and intend to keep them switched on (night and day or whatever!), take a look at this link, it provides a pretty good guide on how to use them in hazardous conditions - at least use them correctly...please!

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html

Gavin.

want2play

kerbdog wrote:

Just because guards do it doesn't make it right.
Why if your passing guards like that yea cant stop and tell them off?
Front fogs are as bad as rear fogs IMO

Im not saying it makes it right im saying the Guards are hardly going to inforce a law they dont obey themselves. (If it even is illigal, the law that covers this is so vague)

Why cant we stop them and tell them off? Try it and see, they'll have a right laugh at you, and lecture you on how its not actually illegal.

I appecciate your opinion but I cant see how front fogs are are as bad as rear when the rear lights are mostly at eye level and front fogs are low and not designed to shine upwards to eye level.

Alun

want2play wrote:

(If it even is illigal, the law that covers this is so vague)

Sigh .. the relevant part of the legal statute regarding vehicle lighting (and I don't mean that useless rag, the RotR) has been quoted here many times, and one thing it definitely isn't is 'vague'. I can't be bothered quoting it yet again, look back in this and any of the other 'rant' threads and you'll find it.

overdriver

@Harty
Great post, mate. You're so correct about the defensiveness of the pro-fog posters. I can't understand this attitude "If front fogs dazzle you, Get your eyes tested blah blah blah". If some fogs AREN'T dazzing you, then surely its your eyes need testing?


I see more and more people with sidelights and fogs on at all times of the day and night, and given the evidence we've seen in lins like the one you've posted, Harty, there can only be one answer - image.

If you're a driver who cares about his / her image more than you do the comfort and safety of other drivers, it says a lot about you, and it's an indictment.