Wheel nuts on backwards!

zilog_jones

Just went through my first NCT yesterday. It failed on one thing - the wheel nuts were on the wrong way round on the rear right wheel. I never noticed this before as I had only taken the hub caps off for the first time just before the test (just got the car at the beginning of October), and it was dark at the time.

Anyway, what should I do about this? I was hoping I could just put them back on right myself then get them tightened properly somewhere, but I've since heard the threads could be wrecked from being on backwards

Is it safe to drive it like it is? The NCT report doesn't mark it as a "this vehicle is unsafe and should not be driven" failure, but could it cause damage?

The rear tyre on the left was also noted under the "visual defects" - it wasn't bad enough to fail but the tread depth is less than 3mm and I don't like the look of it anyway (sidewalls look old and cracked on it - all the tyres are different on the car ). Would it be best to just get another second-hand tyre? Any recommendations for getting them in Limerick?

Wishbone Ash

zilog_jones wrote:

Would it be best to just get another second-hand tyre?

Surely a new tyre would be best!

Saruman

Doubt the threads are wrecked... However only one way to find out!!

I had them on the wrong way around on one of mine.. when i had to get a new tyre the guy told me. I did not even think it was on the NCT checklist!

zilog_jones

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Surely a new tyre would be best!

Wouldn't it be a waste of money just getting one new tyre, and wouldn't it be better to have all the tyres with a similar amount of tread on them?

Wishbone Ash

zilog_jones wrote:

Wouldn't it be a waste of money just getting one new tyre, and wouldn't it be better to have all the tyres with a similar amount of tread on them?

Then get four new tyres!

From a safety point of view, I would consider tyres to be one of the most important components in any vehicle.

Do it for your safety and the safety of others - not just to pass the NCT.

Just My View

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Do it for your safety and the safety of others - not just to pass the NCT.

Amen.

zilog_jones

I don't have to do anything with the tyres to pass the NCT - it's only the wheel nuts that failed it. All the other tyres are well within the limits, and the front ones look pretty new. I could come back next week with the nuts re-fitted but the same crap tyre on the other wheel and pass. But I'm going to change the tyre anyway.

I know they're important, but being a student I can't really afford to buy 4 new tyres when only one of them is particularly bad.

Wishbone Ash

Zilog - talk to the lads at any tyre fitters. They will probably be able to re-thread them if necessary or will advise you what to do.

AMurphy

I assume you mean the tapered (conical) side of the nuts is facing out and the flat side in. How long ahs it been that way and you not noticed, who changed the wheels last?. Need a lesson on wheelnuts.
How many of them are inside out.

Simple fix, but you need to check the studs for thread damage. expecially if all of them were inverted. If one of them was on the right way round, you'll be OK, id say, expecially if you did not hear any clacking when moving.

All you do is remove the nuts, remove the wheel and then inspect the threads for flattning or thread damage. Also inspect the holes in the rim of the wheel for similar damage and elongation.

Assuming all is well, thread the nuts, tapered side in, back on the studs and hand tighten them all the way down, they should come within a mm or two of the hub. If you find them binding, then the wheel most likely has damaged the threads and you need to re-dress them. For that you need a threading die. With thread damage, you will probably damage the nuts if you try tightening them and possibly the hubs will not even the firmly tightened against the hub. Not very safe.

If they screw down ok, great. Install the wheel again and tighten them down, tapered side in this time.

You can change 2 opposing tyres at a time with no ill effects. Maybe make the good odd one the spare.
Good luck.

maidhc

zilog_jones wrote:

Just went through my first NCT yesterday. It failed on one thing - the wheel nuts were on the wrong way round on the rear right wheel.

By which I assume you mean the bevelled edge was facing out toward you.
Everything is probably OK, because if there was any play between the hub and wheel it should have fallen off long ago! It takes only a few miles for the holes in the wheel center to get so enlarged by the studs banging about for the wheel to come off over the nuts. . :eek:

zilog_jones

AMurphy wrote:

I assume you mean the tapered (conical) side of the nuts is facing out and the flat side in.

Yeah

How long ahs it been that way and you not noticed, who changed the wheels last?

It's been like that since I got the car 4 weeks ago. I never noticed because the hub caps were on and I didn't notice anything unusual about the wheel - I didn't know there was a wrong way to put on wheel nuts until I got the NCT results.

How many of them are inside out.

All four on that wheel.

Everything is probably OK, because if there was any play between the hub and wheel it should have fallen off long ago! It takes only a few miles for the holes in the wheel center to get so enlarged by the studs banging about for the wheel to come off over the nuts.

Well I've done about 65 miles it the car since I got it and didn't notice anything unusual. What is bad about having them the wrong way round then?

Thanks for the info. I'll have to speak to the dealer I got it off first though. I might consider getting 2 new tyres for the back wheels.

AMurphy

Consider yourself lucky, I mean it.

Well I've done about 65 miles it the car since I got it and didn't notice anything unusual.

Good, then there is hope. Kindly jack up that wheel, loosen and reverse (taper in) all the nuts before you go any further.
Check all the other wheel s while you are at it.
Then take it back and have each reversed location examined and approved for use and/or replaced if damaged, including your wheel rim. Tyre is your problem.

What is bad about having them the wrong way round then?

The holes in the wheel for the bolts are probably 3/4", (19mm), the bolts are probalby 1/2" (12mm). If you have flat face nuts agianst the wheel rim, the bolts can move about in the holes, remember they have about 1/8" (3mm) radial play, especially if they are the driven wheels. So the bolts move back and forth in the holes, damaging the bolt threads and elongating the holes in the wheel in teh process.... eventually if you let this go far enough the wheel rim will cut right through the bolts, the wheel will fall out from under the car and you'll do a lot of praying before ending up in a ditch, (if you are luck) or under an artic, (if not). You choose.

This is a trivial matter, go deal with it immediately. It is not gong to improve by ignoring it.

Wishbone Ash

AMurphy wrote:

This is a trivial matter, go deal with it immediately

I presume you meant that it is NOT a trivial matter!

zilog_jones

AMurphy wrote:

Good, then there is hope. Kindly jack up that wheel, loosen and reverse (taper in) all the nuts before you go any further.

Isn't there a chance the threads could be damaged though? I don't want to end up with the car stuck in the driveway because I can't put the wheel back on

Thanks for the help. I'm not going to drive anywhere except to get it fixed.

Are Advance any good? There's one just down the road (Ennis Rd.) from me.

KeRbDoG

A wheel nut put on the wrong way around wont damage the threads as if you flip the nut around, the thread is still the same in the bolt.
The only damage I could think of is that the bolt hole in the rims might be a bit damaged.

AMurphy

WEll both, it is a trivial matter to resolve and not a trivial matter if not resolved.

The rim hitting the studs will/may damage the threads at teh very base.
No it will not cross thread the nuts or bolts, so you ahve no problem in getting them off and on, at least partially on, it's the damage, (if any) at the base that will/may be the problem.

get to it man and stop thinking about it.

by the say if you want a quick demonstration of the effects of nuts reversed or correct.
loosen the nuts a little, jack up the car, retighten the reversed nuts to finger tight. with the brake applied, try rotate the wheel back and forth under the nuts.

now reverse the nuts and again to finger tight and try again.

If the rim does not want to budge on the hub due to rust, we can solve that problem also, tomorrow.