Recruitment agencies - name, shame (and praise)

Dempo1

Again, i corrected myself by stating all one operations are bad but as regards the facts i laid out, if time allows take a look at todays jobs site (specifically hospitality jobs) compare agencies advertising jobs and check of the nrf website to see how many active agencies are actually registered. I also maintain any candidate who actually makes a formal complaint about an agency will be blacklisted by other agencies, a bold statement yes but i believe factual.

Textajob is whole different story, my point should have been i doubt they will get many takers. Seriously who in there right mind is going to text at a cost of a €1 just to find out full details on a jobs posting when more than likely the job posting is duplicated a number of times on free sites. We do appear to agree on this sites approach, there entitled but the best of luck to them.

flash harry

Hi Dempo

Thanks for reply. I agree with you on txtajob, dont like the concept and feel it should be clearer that there is a charge, after that if people want to sign up thats on them.

I was actually asking how you know what hits they get, for my own knowledge of how to get these figures?

Re the NRF you seem to misunderstand - they are NOT an offiicial body that regulates the recruitment industry and there is no obligation to join them, so who is a member or not does not dictate if they are a registered recruiment agency (under law).

Regading them blacklisting a candidate I would guess, but do not know, they wouldnt do that, not because they are good people but because they are just a glorified PR machine to create the appearance of regulation....

whatnext

flash harry wrote: »

Hi Dempo

Thanks for reply. I agree with you on txtajob, dont like the concept and feel it should be clearer that there is a charge, after that if people want to sign up thats on them.

I was actually asking how you know what hits they get, for my own knowledge of how to get these figures?

Re the NRF you seem to misunderstand - they are NOT an offiicial body that regulates the recruitment industry and there is no obligation to join them, so who is a member or not does not dictate if they are a registered recruiment agency (under law).

Regading them blacklisting a candidate I would guess, but do not know, they wouldnt do that, not because they are good people but because they are just a glorified PR machine to create the appearance of regulation....

I dont think thats a route anyone would entertain, especially after this..http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=3135621

the fines......
http://www.ciob.org.uk/news/view/2216

skimpydoo

I have been unemployed since last October and I decided to try my luck with a few agencies. They had advertised jobs outside their offices which led me to believe they have some jobs. I walked in and handed my C.V. into reception and they said they would get back to me when something came up. WTF I said but you have jobs advertised outside and I was told again they would get back to me when something comes up.

Has it come to the stage when you can't hand over your C.V. as jobs don't exist and the agencies are harvesting C.V's to make their database look good.

Dempo1

whatnext wrote: »

I dont think thats a route anyone would entertain, especially after this..http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=3135621

the fines......
http://www.ciob.org.uk/news/view/2216

Interesting articles but not related to the points raised, sure i have no doubt there is blacklisting going on in certain industries. I was discussing the appalling recruitment agency sector and the carry on that is occurring. The National Recruitment federation, a representative bodies for agencies was brought up and whilst not official regulators of the Industry (and god knows it needs it) we discussed the fact they have a grievance procedure
"which is about as useful as a three legged hamster" and my point was any candidate making a formal complaint about a certain agency is not only wasting their time but could likely find themselves subtlety black listed

Dempo1

Ronan Leonard wrote: »

I have been unemployed since last October and I decided to try my luck with a few agencies. They had advertised jobs outside their offices which led me to believe they have some jobs. I walked in and handed my C.V. into reception and they said they would get back to me when something came up. WTF I said but you have jobs advertised outside and I was told again they would get back to me when something comes up.

Has it come to the stage when you can't hand over your C.V. as jobs don't exist and the agencies are harvesting C.V's to make their database look good.

Absolutely and yet another example of the crap going on with agencies, read back on some previous postings. Don't hold your breath with depending on recruitment agencies.

skimpydoo

Late last year I attended a job recruitment fair in the RDS. A few recruitment agencies, FAS and the sun sponsored it and it was called Getting Ireland Working Again. It all sounds nice especially when they have top notch guest speakers as well but it was a con of sorts. More than half the jobs available required a foreign language, either German or one of the Scandanavian languages. How many Irish people do you know speak these languages. This pissed me of as getting Ireland working again suggests jobs that you may have a chance of getting. Why the hell do they do this. If it was called a jobs fair I would have no problem with it but the name they gave it was so misleading.

ihazaquestion

i was taken on a temp contract by Adecco in September last yr and they were brilliant- they prepped me for 45 mins at least for the interview, though its only temp job in manufacturing. theyve taken on loads the last yr in the same place and everyone here seems to feel the same.i have dealt with richmond in the past and theyre not as personal.

Raekwon

I've applied for around 30 jobs since the start of January, 27 though agencies and 3 directly to companies, I've had/been invited to 3 interviews from the 3 companies that I applied too and heard absolutely NOTHING from the 27 agencies that I applied for jobs though..............you do the math :rolleyes:

Dempo1

Raekwon wrote: »

I've applied for around 30 jobs since the start of January, 27 though agencies and 3 directly to companies, I've had/been invited to 3 interviews from the 3 companies that I applied too and heard absolutely NOTHING from the 27 agencies that I applied for jobs though..............you do the math :rolleyes:

Astonishing Statistic but sadly yet again confirms the uselessness of agencies, its quiet incredible really and continues to beg the Questions, whats the point of agencies and why do hiring companies use them. It could of course confirm yet again the amount of fictitious positions being advertised?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Dempo1 wrote: »

Astonishing Statistic but sadly yet again confirms the uselessness of agencies, its quiet incredible really and continues to beg the Questions, whats the point of agencies and why do hiring companies use them. It could of course confirm yet again the amount of fictitious positions being advertised?

Remove a HR department from a company and you just saved yourself a whole bundle of cash. Same companies have no alternative but to use these cowboys.

pollypocket10

I am a recruiter and finding this thread has given me some interesting reading. I must say I am offended to be tarred with the "cowboy" brush, while I do admit there are people of questionable integrity in the business, there are many more who are of the utmost professional integrity and provide a valuable and needed service to companies. Many of these cowboys have been weeded out during they recession and I think the majority of recruiters still in business are those that were providing a good quality service.

I think that something a lot of people are missing in this thread is that the clients of recruitment agencies are not the job applicants, but in fact the companies who pay them to source candidates. There are a number of reasons a company will do this, which for example would range from not having the skills or resources in-house to attract and select suitable candidates to simple reasons such as they save on advertising costs or they reduce the amount of admin around dealing with applicants.

Having said that I do believe that all applicants should be treated with due respect and personally ensure that every applicant is at the very least given a response. Unfortunately due to time constraints I would be physically unable to have a telephone call with every applicant but I do where possible and certainly if a candidate is a match for the requirements of my clients I will spend as much time as required prepping them as is needed.

Recruitment agencies are not a service for job seekers, they do not provide career/interview coaching to every applicant they receive. It's just not feasible.

I place approx 3-4 people per month in permanent positions and about 6-10 in temp/contract roles. That would be the norm for every consultant in my office of 9 people so there are plenty of jobs being offered through agencies. it's just unfortunate at the moment that every candidate isn't going to be a match for a clients requirements.

cmac2009

Just on update on my posting on page 32.

May well name the recrutiment agency - its Michael Page. Didn't get the job unfortunately but trying to find this out was a nightmare. Emailed and got no reponse. Had to ring 4 more times over two days and was finally told they found someone else for the position. So doubt I would have been ever told this unless I persisited in calling. Won't be using them again thats for sure.

Dempo1

pollypocket10 wrote: »

I am a recruiter and finding this thread has given me some interesting reading. I must say I am offended to be tarred with the "cowboy" brush, while I do admit there are people of questionable integrity in the business, there are many more who are of the utmost professional integrity and provide a valuable and needed service to companies. Many of these cowboys have been weeded out during they recession and I think the majority of recruiters still in business are those that were providing a good quality service.

I think that something a lot of people are missing in this thread is that the clients of recruitment agencies are not the job applicants, but in fact the companies who pay them to source candidates. There are a number of reasons a company will do this, which for example would range from not having the skills or resources in-house to attract and select suitable candidates to simple reasons such as they save on advertising costs or they reduce the amount of admin around dealing with applicants.

Having said that I do believe that all applicants should be treated with due respect and personally ensure that every applicant is at the very least given a response. Unfortunately due to time constraints I would be physically unable to have a telephone call with every applicant but I do where possible and certainly if a candidate is a match for the requirements of my clients I will spend as much time as required prepping them as is needed.

Recruitment agencies are not a service for job seekers, they do not provide career/interview coaching to every applicant they receive. It's just not feasible.

I place approx 3-4 people per month in permanent positions and about 6-10 in temp/contract roles. That would be the norm for every consultant in my office of 9 people so there are plenty of jobs being offered through agencies. it's just unfortunate at the moment that every candidate isn't going to be a match for a clients requirements.

It is admirable you have come on to defend and i like many other candidates appreciate not all agencies are cowboys. I do however believe that a lot of highly skilled candidates have the intelligence to know exactly what the role of recruitment agencies are. What gets peoples backs up is the complete lack of responses and to be honest ignorance of some agencies and this is across a wide and varied amount of sectors. I do not accept it would task a "consultant" to much to reply via email, even to acknowledge a resume, application etc. Sadly the same experiences of candidates shine trough daily. I would certainly not expect an interview or consideration for every application i make, but it would be appreciated to occasionally be acknowledged.

pollypocket10

Dempo, I stated in my email that I, and it is standard practice in our company I might add, ensure that every applicant at the very least gets a response when they apply. I am aware of the time that it takes to put a CV together, tailor to a position, write a cover note etc and I agree that it would be rude to fail to acknowledge that. Beyond that, it's not possible to continue to follow up with candidates, we get hundreds of applicants a week so yes the task of sending an email to each can take up a huge amount of time.

I can see that many people have had atrocious experiences with agencies but I am sure that these practices are not the norm. We rely on reputation in this industry and I am aware that the person who is an applicant at one point, may well be a client in the future so it just doesn't make sense to treat them badly.

I also note that you placed the word consultant inside quotation marks. Do you doubt that title? I have a BA & Masters along with 9 years experience. I do have the expertise to provide consultancy services in this area.

Dempo1

Again, i do agree with your sentiments, especially the point about a candidate possibly becoming a Client.

As for the Consultant title, i certainly do not doubt your qualifications but i do, those i have come across who i know for a fact have absolutely no experience in the field they are supposed to consulting in apart from Junior supervisory roles in the sectors they are representing. The Irony is i was actually encouraged to go into recruitment but was turned off by my own experiences both as a candidate & Client. I have to be honest, I often wondered what the qualification required to be a recruitment consultant is? sorry if i offended, it was not my intention.

pollypocket10

My BA is in HR and MSc is in Business Psychology but qualifications would vary. As a general rule you would need some sort of CPD qualification in recruitment & selection. Continuous education is always encouraged in this type of profession.

Experience in a sector isn't always imperative. for example an experienced engineer won't necessarily have the skills needed to probe into & identify the characteristics, preferences, motivations and competencies of an applicant engineer for example. Also the competencies required by an engineer in one company, may not be the same in another so a manager that may have successfully recruited people into one company for a number of years may fail when attempting the same with a range of companies with different requirements, cultures etc.

Dempo1

Interesting and yes this does make sense, perhaps i am in the wrong sector (Hospitality) the standard of recruitment agencies differs widely.

Anyway, i do see where you are coming from and certainly respect your obvious professionalism.

ihazaquestion

Dempo1 wrote: »

I have to be honest, I often wondered what the qualification required to be a recruitment consultant is? sorry if i offended, it was not my intention.

I wonder what qualification one needs for a sales job, for manufacturing work, for retail, for office work? answer= none. recruitment is mainly sales and candidates come last, unless an agency is in a niche market. i would say that the amount of CVs sent to agencies at the moment is growing by the day- i wouldn't expect a personal response from an agency, an automated one is just fine.

donkey balls

pollypocket10 wrote: »

My BA is in HR and MSc is in Business Psychology but qualifications would vary. As a general rule you would need some sort of CPD qualification in recruitment & selection. Continuous education is always encouraged in this type of profession.

Experience in a sector isn't always imperative. for example an experienced engineer won't necessarily have the skills needed to probe into & identify the characteristics, preferences, motivations and competencies of an applicant engineer for example. Also the competencies required by an engineer in one company, may not be the same in another so a manager that may have successfully recruited people into one company for a number of years may fail when attempting the same with a range of companies with different requirements, cultures etc.

this is my take on it i work within the transport industry i have been to interveiws were the recruiter hadnt a clue about the industry,there is about four agencies that their recruiters come from industry and know their stuff.
they have a policy of only advertising jobs that exist a few more of the dodgy ones are only interested in my biz contacts from former employers probely looking for contact names to get more biz in:rolleyes:

shoegirl

pollypocket10 wrote: »

Recruitment agencies are not a service for job seekers, they do not provide career/interview coaching to every applicant they receive. It's just not feasible.

I place approx 3-4 people per month in permanent positions and about 6-10 in temp/contract roles. That would be the norm for every consultant in my office of 9 people so there are plenty of jobs being offered through agencies. it's just unfortunate at the moment that every candidate isn't going to be a match for a clients requirements.

I had a conversation today with a colleague about agencies and he told me that when he sends his CV to an agency he ALWAYS follows up the following day with a phone called "otherwise they never come back to me." I tried to explain to him that if the agency doesn't call him back its probably because he is not suitable for the post in question. I think a lot of people don't really understand what you've said above and it is true.

My own experience to be honest, nowadays, is that the agencies I've dealt with over the last few months have been really, really good, but I think that could be because I have got a skillset that matches a lot of jobs that happen to be out there and don't expect unrealistic wages. I'm guessing its just much easier for them to work with candidates who are easier to place with their clients.

Dempo1

shoegirl wrote: »

I had a conversation today with a colleague about agencies and he told me that when he sends his CV to an agency he ALWAYS follows up the following day with a phone called "otherwise they never come back to me." I tried to explain to him that if the agency doesn't call him back its probably because he is not suitable for the post in question. I think a lot of people don't really understand what you've said above and it is true.

My own experience to be honest, nowadays, is that the agencies I've dealt with over the last few months have been really, really good, but I think that could be because I have got a skillset that matches a lot of jobs that happen to be out there and don't expect unrealistic wages. I'm guessing its just much easier for them to work with candidates who are easier to place with their clients.

The most offending sector seems to be Hospitality!

lmmoonbeam1976

pollypocket10 wrote: »

....
I place approx 3-4 people per month in permanent positions and about 6-10 in temp/contract roles. That would be the norm for every consultant in my office of 9 people so there are plenty of jobs being offered through agencies. it's just unfortunate at the moment that every candidate isn't going to be a match for a clients requirements.

hi polly could you pm me with company details as im available for work and i need work -- i have my own transport and no problem travelling

thanks

underwaterknife

Dempo1 wrote: »

Hillarious reviews LOL, Perhaps a Hall of Shame is required. Kinda surprised a little, i thought if one sector had quality recruiters it would be the IT sector although based on some comments from big players in Intel, Google etc, it would seem all is not well.

You'd be amazed how non-technical IT recruiters are. They have a huge lack of understanding of the different job titles and duties.

One recruiter asked me once "do you have TCP/IP?" I said "oh yes, he's locked in the basement and unless you get me a job quickly I'll kill him and then no one will be able to use him!". Fecking Muppet.

donkey balls

underwaterknife wrote: »

You'd be amazed how non-technical IT recruiters are. They have a huge lack of understanding of the different job titles and duties.

One recruiter asked me once "do you have TCP/IP?" I said "oh yes, he's locked in the basement and unless you get me a job quickly I'll kill and then no one will be able to use him!". Fecking Muppet.

i dont think these issues are confined to to the IT sector:rolleyes: when i get calls about certain jobs within the transport industry i find my self educating the recruiter on what they actually need.

flash harry

Underwater that was funny but I personally think naming individuals while you remain anon is not right and amazingly allowed by mods who kick other people off for forgetting to say thank you!

That aside which of those (if any) have got you a job?

Also I said ages afo possibly even months ago in this thread the goings on with recruiters seem to be worse in the IT sector especially for some reason....

Finally I dont subscribe to you must know area you are recruiting in, I think its much more important that you know you dont know if you get me..you should definitely release Mr TCP/IP

donkey balls

ok can someone help me out with this one i got a call from two different agencies asking me would i be interested in working for a certain employer. the salary range was nearly 10k in the difference between the two agencies, am i missing something here? both agencies are recruiting for the same company yet the salary is 10k more with one of the agency wtf is going on.

Dempo1

donkey balls wrote: »

ok can someone help me out with this one i got a call from two different agencies asking me would i be interested in working for a certain employer. the salary range was nearly 10k in the difference between the two agencies, am i missing something here? both agencies are recruiting for the same company yet the salary is 10k more with one of the agency wtf is going on.

Seems a little Bizarre the salary differential, its not however surprising two agencies working for the same company, happens a lot and leads to endless conflicts of interest. Your dilemma is not to disclose your registered with two agencies, pick the highest bid and advise the lower bidder your not interested, the last thing you want is for your resume to be sent by two agencies, again a common problem!!

underwaterknife

donkey balls wrote: »

ok can someone help me out with this one i got a call from two different agencies asking me would i be interested in working for a certain employer. the salary range was nearly 10k in the difference between the two agencies, am i missing something here? both agencies are recruiting for the same company yet the salary is 10k more with one of the agency wtf is going on.

Is it a contract role, if so one recruiter might be greedier than the other with regards to their cut. Is it for the same exact role?

Sometimes companies will use recruiters in interesting ways. They will contact an agency, specifying what kind of person they want, and pitch the salary range at one level with one agency and another level with another agency. The goal being to see if they can get the person they want cheaper.

strictlyelvis

I am most recently dealing with a recruitment agency from the U.S called Crew Unlimited.
They are based in Fort Lauderdale,Florida.
Are they a reliable agent,any feed back would be apreciated,
thanks..

donkey balls

underwaterknife wrote: »

Is it a contract role, if so one recruiter might be greedier than the other with regards to their cut. Is it for the same exact role?

Sometimes companies will use recruiters in interesting ways. They will contact an agency, specifying what kind of person they want, and pitch the salary range at one level with one agency and another level with another agency. The goal being to see if they can get the person they want cheaper.

yeah it is a contract role be interesting to see what the two agencies have to say next week.

Lux23

Does anyone know of any good marketing/pr agencies? I have sent my CV into a few of them and so far I have only spoken to one person from Sigmar. I was told Alternatives are great but I sent my CV in and called twice but have yet to hear anything back.

Dempo1

Lux23 wrote: »

Does anyone know of any good marketing/pr agencies? I have sent my CV into a few of them and so far I have only spoken to one person from Sigmar. I was told Alternatives are great but I sent my CV in and called twice but have yet to hear anything back.

Sadly its a depressing pattern in all sectors with agencies not responding to resumes, even when requested, my best advice is just to phone them, waiting for responses via email in the current climate is pointless, pester them i say!

underwaterknife

Dempo1 wrote: »

Sadly its a depressing pattern in all sectors with agencies not responding to resumes, even when requested, my best advice is just to phone them, waiting for responses via email in the current climate is pointless, pester them i say!

Long story short if they think you meet the requirements for a job they are recruiting for they'll ring you.

This is how it works:

They put a job up on an ad site (usually forgetting to take it down once it's filled) they get CVs in their inbox. They quickly glance over each on one searching for the words in the job spec in your CV (rarely will they no what these terms actually mean). if they get a few matches they actually might read your CV... maybe. If they read it and they think you might meet the requirements they will call you. if you answer their questions correctly they'll put your CV in front of the company.

...and that will the last you hear from them unless the company wants to interview you.

Another tip:

If they ask to meet you before putting your CV forward for the role, the role either doesn't exist, has just been filled, or the client is in no hurry to hire. If it's a hot job they won't stall putting your CV forward, they'll put it forward and meet up later if at all. Most the time when recruiters want to meet you it's because they need to fill a metric quota.

Dempo1

underwaterknife wrote: »

Long story short if they think you meet the requirements for a job they are recruiting for they'll ring you.

This is how it works:

They put a job up on an ad site (usually forgetting to take it down once it's filled) they get CVs in their inbox. They quickly glance over each on one searching for the words in the job spec in your CV (rarely will they no what these terms actually mean). if they get a few matches they actually might read your CV... maybe. If they read it and they think you might meet the requirements they will call you. if you answer their questions correctly they'll put your CV in front of the company.

...and that will the last you hear from them unless the company wants to interview you.

Another tip:

If they ask to meet you before putting your CV forward for the role, the role either doesn't exist, has just been filled, or the client is in no hurry to hire. If it's a hot job they won't stall putting your CV forward, they'll put it forward and meet up later if at all. Most the time when recruiters want to meet you it's because they need to fill a metric quota.

Interesting observations but one wonders what the point of this approach, seems to me based on experience and indeed numerous postings that recruitment agencies don't get it when it comes to dealing with candidates, basic courteousy, acknowledgments, returning calls etc and its not just one sector. I do agree with you about how the system does work and in particular the nonsensical requirement some agencies have about meeting candidates. I've lost count of the amount of times i visited agency grubby offices, met so call consultants (the title makes me laugh) only to fill out mundane, completely irrelevant registration forms only to hear nothing back.

Visited one such office recently only to discover 5 consultants let go after christmas with only the manager remaining, unshaven, distracted and asking me for advice, the only thing missing from the scene was tumbleweed rolling down the corridor.

Jellybaby1

underwaterknife wrote: »

Long story short if they think you meet the requirements for a job they are recruiting for they'll ring you.

Not sure about this because right now there are thousands of suitably qualified people out there, and they aren't going to send everyone for interview! Damn them!

Dempo1

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

underwaterknife wrote: »

Long story short if they think you meet the requirements for a job they are recruiting for they'll ring you.

Not sure about this because right now there are thousands of suitably qualified people out there, and they aren't going to send everyone for interview! Damn them!

LOL, DAMN THEM TO HIGH HELL!, my take on this is there is something radically wrong when very qualified (in fact lets be honest even those who may not have all the necessary attributes) are just ignored. I am astonished as to how this whole recruitment game works, very few people are experiencing anything positive with agencies, in fact some down right horror stories. I am equally amazed hiring companies in the current climate use such services. I am back working thank god, but i have done quite a bit of research on Jobs posted over the past few months, the same offenders feature daily on Jobs sites, one Job in particular has been on line for over 12 months, the agency just changes the dates monthly. I just don't get it and wondered how many candidates have actually got a job through an agency over the past 12 months or so!

As someone who actually used agencies and someone who has had to wear the shoe on the other foot as it where, i swear to god i will never use agencies again. If one good thing has come out of this recession, its a few cowboys now gone out of business!

Jellybaby1

Surely this must come under 'false advertising'. Can't understand how they can get away with it. I think Joe Duffy investigated this last year but it did no more than fill up some airtime on his shift!!!

Dempo1

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Surely this must come under 'false advertising'. Can't understand how they can get away with it. I think Joe Duffy investigated this last year but it did no more than fill up some airtime on his shift!!!

Yes jellybaby1 It is false advertisement and not only did, good old Joe do a feature on it but it was also featured on Matt coopers show, its common knowledge that lots of fictitious jobs are advertised, primarily to harvest cv's. The job sites will brush their hands with it as they claim they can not verify jobs postings placed by recruitment firms.

Jellybaby1

Another amazing thought - people actually study HR and get qualifications to work in that field. What the hell are they being taught? Are they being taught it is ok to lie to people, to treat them like dirt, to place a 'job opportunity' in their window and falsely advertise? To crawl on their hands and knees and lick the boots of employers?!!!

How many times have I heard the words in that awful D4 accent "I'm in Haitch Orr". I bet they're not telling anyone NOW that they are in "Haitch Orr".

Dempo1

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Another amazing thought - people actually study HR and get qualifications to work in that field. What the hell are they being taught? Are they being taught it is ok to lie to people, to treat them like dirt, to place a 'job opportunity' in their window and falsely advertise? To crawl on their hands and knees and lick the boots of employers?!!!

How many times have I heard the words in that awful D4 accent "I'm in Haitch Orr". I bet they're not telling anyone NOW that they are in "Haitch Orr".

Hilarious Review LOL:)

But my experience with recruitment firms "and its lots" both as a client and candidate is that most if not all of these companies don't actually hire HR professionals, instead they employ low level supervisors/managers in the sector their supposed to be representing. One hilarious experience, no names is a firm i used to look for a particular team member, low and behold the "Consultant" was a former employee of mine would had been dismissed for UN mentionable actions, i have also come across some cowboys who knew nothing about my sector. Thankfully the recession has wiped out a lot of cowboys but there are still a couple of one man (women shows) who are neither registered or qualified to place never mind recommend candidates.

I would not tarnish true hospitality professionals with the ugly brush of the recruitment agency.

flash harry

Dempo1 wrote: »

Hilarious Review LOL:)

But my experience with recruitment firms "and its lots" both as a client and candidate is that most if not all of these companies don't actually hire HR professionals, instead they employ low level supervisors/managers in the sector their supposed to be representing. One hilarious experience, no names is a firm i used to look for a particular team member, low and behold the "Consultant" was a former employee of mine would had been dismissed for UN mentionable actions, i have also come across some cowboys who knew nothing about my sector. Thankfully the recession has wiped out a lot of cowboys but there are still a couple of one man (women shows) who are neither registered or qualified to place never mind recommend candidates.

I would not tarnish true hospitality professionals with the ugly brush of the recruitment agency.

Remind me why smaller or one man/woman recruiters are less worthy?

Do you not think the bigger agencies, who are across numerous sectors and are managed primarily by KPI metrics for staff, will inevitably have these staff members trying to meet these metrics - number of interviews in house, number of phone calls, etc, all the stuff nobody likes.

Due to their scale and reach across numerous sectors and staff (good and bad), do you not think that with some tweaking of overheads, they have a BETTER chance of surviving than smaller agencies who will have fewer clients and consultants?

Small recruitment company - 3 or 4 clients close or stop recruiting could mean the end of the line but a mere dent for a bigger player.

Hospitality sector?

Dempo1

flash harry wrote: »

Remind me why smaller or one man/woman recruiters are less worthy?

Do you not think the bigger agencies, who are across numerous sectors and are managed primarily by KPI metrics for staff, will inevitably have these staff members trying to meet these metrics - number of interviews in house, number of phone calls, etc, all the stuff nobody likes.

Due to their scale and reach across numerous sectors and staff (good and bad), do you not think that with some tweaking of overheads, they have a BETTER chance of surviving than smaller agencies who will have fewer clients and consultants?

Small recruitment company - 3 or 4 clients close or stop recruiting could mean the end of the line but a mere dent for a bigger player.

Hospitality sector?

The Hospitality sector reports 90% of hotels laid of staff last year, currently it is undisputed around 40% of hotels are trading at substantial losses, it is a mess out there.

During the boom years recruitment firms specializing in this Field sprang up like daffodils at easter. Its not fair to mention specific names but i assure you i know of at least four agencies who are one man / one women operators, i know of three that are entirely staffed by family members and from family homes, none of whom would know the arse end of a wooden spoon let alone recognize a hospitality professional from an IT professional. I speak from both sides of the fence, both as a client and candidate. My main point is there are still some small outfits that continue to trade with absolutely no registration and amazingly these offenders feature regularly on odd sites such as Gumtree and fas (conveniently free or course) and surprise surprise their postings are either fictitious or amazingly appear very similar to positions being advertised by actual employers. God loves a tryer i guess.

We will obviously disagree on this and to be blunt, the entire recruitment sector is just appalling. I once thought is was just hospitality but sadly numerous other professions seem to suffer from the lack of respect, courtesy or basic professionalism from people who are supposed to lead by example.

This is not about survival, managing staff costs, over heads etc, its about professionalism and knowing your business. Some reputable firms actually let "consultants" go due to the down turn but at least they have the decency to be honest and inform candidates there is not much happening but keep in touch etc etc!

Jellybaby1

Dempo1 wrote: »

i know of three that are entirely staffed by family members and from family homes,]


Y'know what? If a 'recruitment agency' is staffed entirely by family members...........then who do you think would get a lot of the jobs???? Any chance they would divvy up a lot of short-contract temping jobs themselves? All sewn up! Job's oxo!!

flash harry

I'm still a little lost on your hospitality sector comment - "I would not tarnish true hospitality professionals with the ugly brush of the recruitment agency." - dont get it?

Could you clarify are these companies bad because they are small, or bad because they use fas or gumtree (your expertise seems to stretch to what the best method of attracting people is for a given sector) or is it because they are family businesses (what like Dunnes Stores?), or is it because shock horror the job posts "amazingly appear very similar to positions being advertised by actual employers" - this might be a surprise but they're using the same job spec, its not some amazing coincidence that some recruiters job ads are verbatim as well.

Maybe I'll apply to this job on gumtree through Elan part of the manpower group with its 4,000 offices in 82 countries, those small guys with their USD 22 billion revenues.

Good point though

FH

ps - the recruitment industry is a bit of a joke but so is your generalisation

Dempo1

flash harry wrote: »

I'm still a little lost on your hospitality sector comment - "I would not tarnish true hospitality professionals with the ugly brush of the recruitment agency." - dont get it?

Could you clarify are these companies bad because they are small, or bad because they use fas or gumtree (your expertise seems to stretch to what the best method of attracting people is for a given sector) or is it because they are family businesses (what like Dunnes Stores?), or is it because shock horror the job posts "amazingly appear very similar to positions being advertised by actual employers" - this might be a surprise but they're using the same job spec, its not some amazing coincidence that some recruiters job ads are verbatim as well.

Maybe I'll apply to this job on gumtree through Elan part of the manpower group with its 4,000 offices in 82 countries, those small guys with their USD 22 billion revenues.

Good point though

FH

ps - the recruitment industry is a bit of a joke but so is your generalisation

Do you seriously rate Manpower, if so i rest my case! they have to be the biggest of Jokes in the recruitment sector and the Irish franchise of this shower is hardly a beaming light in this organizations world wide operation. Perhaps delve a little deeper in some quite bizarre jobs postings in gumtree, particularly the Hospitality sector, its almost cringe inducing and somewhat desperate by all accounts.

Another point about Manpower, i worked in the states for quite a while and have numerous contacts there who would not touch this organization with the smallest of barge poles.

My generalizations are no Joke and if you take some time to look back on this thread, i am certainly not alone on having a very deem view on this sector, quite frankly is a vulgar disgrace what is going on and being tolerated and all the more offensive with professionals in all sectors genuinely seeking work only to be treated not much better than road kill.

Your also missing my point about one particular agency being run by three sisters, i was not criticizing family business but certainly one particular agency run by three sisters and farce would be an understatement on how this particular business was run, on more than one occasion i was the client dealing with one sister only to have the other two trying to coax me into a new position, thankfully this particular company went bust last year, one wonders why?

Perhaps you have different experiences of recruitment agencies?

flash harry

I have exceptionally high standards of how anyone I interact with professionally behave.

You seem to have glossed over my point that the size, family relationships, or indeed where the job is posted is not a reflection of the recruitment agencies caliber - you wrote quite a long post on these "one man shows".

Where did I say I rate manpower? I know little about how good manpower is or otherwise, my point, refuting yours, is that where you post job vacancies, the size of agency etc is no reflection on the agency.

If they're crap, they're crap its nothing to do with number of employees or where they post jobs.

Dempo1

flash harry wrote: »

I have exceptionally high standards of how anyone I interact with professionally behave.

You seem to have glossed over my point that the size, family relationships, or indeed where the job is posted is not a reflection of the recruitment agencies caliber - you wrote quite a long post on these "one man shows".

Where did I say I rate manpower? I know little about how good manpower is or otherwise, my point, refuting yours, is that where you post job vacancies, the size of agency etc is no reflection on the agency.

If they're crap, they're crap its nothing to do with number of employees or where they post jobs.

"Maybe I'll apply to this job on gumtree through Elan part of the manpower group with its 4,000 offices in 82 countries, those small guys with their USD 22 billion revenues" maybe is misread your post, but this appears to rate Manpower? and as for the job advertised, at €28k hardly inspiring for qualified professionals.

Flash Harry, i am not criticizing you or all one man operations, i am justifiably debating the appalling standards to be found in the General recruitment sector. I have not named names but would dearly love too. I am speaking from over 25 years experience dealing with agencies from both sides of the fence. I am not alone but perhaps a little more vocal because of my experiences. I am also a member of a number of professional Hospitality organizations, have worked in over 15 countries and i am sorry if you disagree but the recruitment sectors reputation is appalling. I could equally name some fantastic companies and i have been objective about this. I have no doubt you have the highest reputation but sadly and no exclusively hospitality, there are some cowboys out there. I would not be as vocal if it were not the case unemployment was so high and these cowboys behavior has and continues to add to the stress of many professionals from all walks of life genuinely seeking work. I am sorry if you disagree but there is no excuse for rudeness, unprofessional ism, lack if interaction, posting fictitious jobs, harvesting resumes etc etc etc!

flash harry

Dempo1 wrote: »

"Maybe I'll apply to this job on gumtree through Elan part of the manpower group with its 4,000 offices in 82 countries, those small guys with their USD 22 billion revenues" maybe is misread your post, but this appears to rate Manpower? and as for the job advertised, at €28k hardly inspiring for qualified professionals.

Flash Harry, i am not criticizing you or all one man operations, i am justifiably debating the appalling standards to be found in the General recruitment sector. I have not named names but would dearly love too. I am speaking from over 25 years experience dealing with agencies from both sides of the fence. I am not alone but perhaps a little more vocal because of my experiences. I am also a member of a number of professional Hospitality organizations, have worked in over 15 countries and i am sorry if you disagree but the recruitment sectors reputation is appalling. I could equally name some fantastic companies and i have been objective about this. I have no doubt you have the highest reputation but sadly and no exclusively hospitality, there are some cowboys out there. I would not be as vocal if it were not the case unemployment was so high and these cowboys behavior has and continues to add to the stress of many professionals from all walks of life genuinely seeking work. I am sorry if you disagree but there is no excuse for rudeness, unprofessional ism, lack if interaction, posting fictitious jobs, harvesting resumes etc etc etc!

no offence but you seem to conveniently ignore the fact that you seemed to imply only small one man shows post on gumtree, my post re manpowewer simply refutes that, not endorses them.

"ps - the recruitment industry is a bit of a joke but so is your generalisation" - I think I have been clear on my views of my own industry

You're right there is no excuse for all of those things you outlined but they are not symptomatic of small. one-man or family run agencies. If anything I think they are more likely the bigger the agency.

Dempo1

No offense meant or taken flash harry, we do at least agree the industry is a joke and yes indeed i do agree larger organizations can be just as bad, indeed one in particular mainly based in the midlands has been posting a particular job for the past five months, its hilarious and the particular "consultant" does not even reply to applications, i actually went over his head and contacted the GM of this company, grovelling apologies and an actual admittance the jobs is a speculative one, arrange to meet another consultant in another branch only to be greeted by tumbleweed rolling down the corridor, a consultant younger than my under ware, unshaven, clueless and asking me for advice, i did manage to get from him the reason why there was so many desks empty in the office? five consultants let go after Christmas, and yes the one supposed to be handling this fictitious job posting i mentioned. This is a big company by the way!

Thankfully i am back in action but intend staying very clear of agencies if ever the need comes for recruiting!