Recruitment agencies - name, shame (and praise)

the_syco

compo1 wrote: »

that I was "totally unsuited to call centre work" and had "no customer service experience." Only thirty years in Dunnes Stores!

For future reference, you may need to reword what you did on your CV, as some people will assume Dunnes equals retail, and not customer service...

Sebastian Dangerfield

I used Morgan McKinley (fka Premier Recruitment) when I last moved 6 years ago (when jobs were plentiful) so they have been a company Ive looked to if considering moving again.

However over the last couple of years something has changed - they advertise jobs that seem to be perfect (albeit a bit light on detail), I apply, they ask for my CV, then low and behold the job falls through, and its not available anymore. My girlfriend tried them - same thing.

Im considering moving to the UK and saw a job advertised on a jobs website. It was only after Id applied that I realised it had gone to MM - sure enough, the company (who couldnt be named) had to reassess the role and didnt go ahead.

Either theyre very unlucky, particularly bad at closing deals, or have a policy of advertising jobs that dont exist (why anyone would do this, I dont know)

On the other hand I had some particularly bad experiences with Quest Recruitment in the mid 2000s, but one person there made contact with me a few months ago and has come through on a regular basis with interview offers.

Steam

I have recently employed people that have been out work for some time and been F####ed around and lied to about jobs that they have had their cv@s sent to when in actual fact they never even bothered to. The consultant told my him the name of the company and so he searched them on line and thay had it advertised themselves and he applied and had an interview arranged with the company within the hour of applying . So for future employers do use Logiskills Group as you are wasting your money dealing with them and are not capable of finding you the right staff.

Pharaoh1

Minister wrote: »

As someone in my late 40's trying to change jobs (moved into a role I hate as my old role was no longer funded[in a quango]) I am beginning to believe that agencies are - in the main - staffed by people under thirty who regard people of our experience as 'past it' and too old. I don't believe I am alone in this and friends/peers of similar vintage also find our demographic is being passed over on a regular basis.

Thus, I am at a loss as to will I ever get an interview anywhere where I can demonstrate good skills/experience etc.

A few years younger than you but would have to agree entirely.

Steam

I have recently employed people that have been out work for some time and been F####ed around and lied to about jobs that they have had their cv@s sent to when in actual fact they never even bothered to. The consultant told my him the name of the company and so he searched them on line and thay had it advertised themselves and he applied and had an interview arranged with the company within the hour of applying . So for future employers do use any agency as you are wasting your money dealing with them and are not capable of finding you the right staff

COYW

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

However over the last couple of years something has changed - they advertise jobs that seem to be perfect (albeit a bit light on detail), I apply, they ask for my CV, then low and behold the job falls through, and its not available anymore. My girlfriend tried them - same thing.

Seems to be a common trend. I know people who have applied for a specific job, eg Full time perm and when the agency calls it turns out to be a contract role slightly related to the job they applied for. They probably have a few different job adverts out covering a range of skills for one specific job.

irishguy1983

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

A few years younger than you but would have to agree entirely.

Ummmm. I think it is a case of most people in agencies are in their low twenties and straight out of college - they generally don't have a clue and not much experience.

How does someone who is 23 recruit for positions in engineering,accounting,law etc. when they generally know nothing about the area? They are provided with a few buzz words and that is it really!

Steam

Sounds like these people think they know it all and even think they can advise companies, how very wrong they are, nobody should have to be subject to so much bull.

Millie80

I have been following this thread on the sideline for sometime. I have experience on both sides of the fence-a recruiter and also a candidate. You have to remember that recruiters (despite what alot of you think) are human beings doing a job to the best of their ability. They follow instructions often times from a client (who are paying a fee) and are expected to deliver on each and everyone of the clients requirements. The client comes to agencies when they don't have the pool of candidates readily available and they often only want to see 3-4 CV's. Obviously recruiters have a service to the candidates and they should offer CV/Interview advice even if they can't get you in an interview process but you have to remember where the demands are coming from. Believe it or not they aren't out to ruin candidates lives but like you carrying out your job you have to deliver the best service so do recruiters and not every profile that recruiters get is relevant to the job. I know it's frustrating especially when you're vulnerable enough looking for a job but you can't constantly make recruiters out to be the villain. It's typically Irish that the (praise) part of this thread title is in brackets. We are often times too negative and can't see the good in anything-wouldn't it be nice to share some positive experiences that we have of agencies? (and there has to be positive experiences otherwise agencies wouldn't be in existence if they weren't delivering a service to candidates & clients)

Steam

Millie80 wrote: »

I have been following this thread on the sideline for sometime. I have experience on both sides of the fence-a recruiter and also a candidate. You have to remember that recruiters (despite what alot of you think) are human beings doing a job to the best of their ability. They follow instructions often times from a client (who are paying a fee) and are expected to deliver on each and everyone of the clients requirements. The client comes to agencies when they don't have the pool of candidates readily available and they often only want to see 3-4 CV's. Obviously recruiters have a service to the candidates and they should offer CV/Interview advice even if they can't get you in an interview process but you have to remember where the demands are coming from. Believe it or not they aren't out to ruin candidates lives but like you carrying out your job you have to deliver the best service so do recruiters and not every profile that recruiters get is relevant to the job. I know it's frustrating especially when you're vulnerable enough looking for a job but you can't constantly make recruiters out to be the villain. It's typically Irish that the (praise) part of this thread title is in brackets. We are often times too negative and can't see the good in anything-wouldn't it be nice to share some positive experiences that we have of agencies? (and there has to be positive experiences otherwise agencies wouldn't be in existence if they weren't delivering a service to candidates & clients)

I also have been on both sides and the recruitment consultants I have heard about and they do not seem to respect candidates looking for work as they to are people as well. If companies wanted to find staff and did not have the pool of candidates they would not neccessarly have to go agencies for this purpose as there are plenty of other ways of doing this with out having to pay for it, and I have seen cv's sent by agencies and quite honestly they were not suitable for the business I am in and do not understand why they would send someone who would have to be trained up for this business.

COYW

Just wondering, if you ask a recruitment agency (via email) to delete your c.v. and details from their records, are they legally obliged to do so?

I have requested the deletion of my details but one agency still calls me every six months querying my work status.

whatnext

Steam wrote: »

They can only hold your records by law for 1 year and cannot disclose them to any one with out your permission. I would go into their office in person and ask them to remove remove and show you on their computer system that this is done and get all your hard copies they have on file handed back to you and any information they hold on you. If you still get know satisfaction you say to them that under the freedom of information act they have return your details to you and remove records from their database as it seems that have your records for more than a year now and i would not take no for answer. The only to do it is face to face and emails and phone calls are no good.

There are so many inaccuracies here I don't know where to start

COYW

whatnext wrote: »

There are so many inaccuracies here I don't know where to start

Care to elaborate?

whatnext

COYW wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

What has the freedom of information act got to do with recruitment companies for starters?

ABajaninCork

CPL. Absolutely useless...

COYW

whatnext wrote: »

What has the freedom of information act got to do with recruitment companies for starters?

I don't know. I was the one asking the question. I thought you might have a definitive answer, given your response to Steam's post.

whatnext

COYW wrote: »

I don't know. I was the one asking the question. I thought you might have a definitive answer, given your response to Steam's post.

It has nothing to do with recruitment companies.
Also there is no law saying they can only hold your information for one year.
There is a guide line sawing something similar, however that refers to companies direct recruitment processes, but the same guide lines also give numerous reasons as to why this may not be practical.

whatnext

Steam wrote: »

They cannot hold your details for more than a year and yes this also applies to recruitment agencies as well. I know someone who had the same problem and qouted this and immediatley they gave back all the details and was removed from the database.

It is a guide line and applies to companies.
Guidelines are not law, so whether you say it applies to agencies or not is irrelevant. The guide lines also state that there are reasons why they would not apply, such as business needs.
If you insist it is law you will have to quote the act. I don't believe such legislation exists.

Any further thoughts on how you would use the freedom of information act :rolleyes:

freeze4real

ABajaninCork wrote: »

CPL. Absolutely useless...

CPL are useless. Absolutely utter useless. Showers of *****the whole lot of them. I hope they are reading this.

Brightwater as well, absolutely useless.

I wouldn't touch any of them with an 100ft pole.

ABajaninCork

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, I can't go into details on here. But suffice it to say, they are incompetant, uncaring, and totally useless. Even worse than La Creme and that's saying something...

sarkozy

This is depressing reading. Having worked in the not-for-profit sector for years, ongoing job insecurity is getting to me. I find myself unemployed again and considering a career change.

From reading this thread, it sounds as if going to a recruitment agency would be a complete waste of time. I had one experience of an agengy; I was approached via LinkedIn to discuss a job with a major charity, not a perfect match, but enough to be asked in for a pre-interview. All very positive signals until the person I spoke to stonewalled me after I wasn't shortlisted, despite being told in no uncertain terms that the door was still open for me if I wished to discuss further opportunities.

gambit83

freeze4real wrote: »

CPL are useless. Absolutely utter useless. Showers of *****the whole lot of them. I hope they are reading this.

Brightwater as well, absolutely useless.

I wouldn't touch any of them with an 100ft pole.

Completely agree
I applied for a few jobs on CPL, went in and met 3 different representatives for 3 different positions on 3 separate occasions. we briefly spoke about my CV (repeated what i told them on the phone), all they seemed to want to do was to fish for information on the previous companies i worked for. they never even came back to me about the so called positions they were recruiting for, i had to ring and email several times before they responded and when they did they were pretty sort about it

i have to say most seem to be like this but their are a few genuine ones too, really depends on the "recruiter"

Steam

quite simply they are all useless f######g Liars and that is all they ever do is fish for more companies to contact. I wonder sometimes if they are any good comsultant out there and from recent posts is do not look like there is.

whatnext

Steam wrote: »

quite simply they are all useless f######g Liars and that is all they ever do is fish for more companies to contact. I wonder sometimes if they are any good comsultant out there and from recent posts is do not look like there is.

Is this your response to being caught quoting legislation that doesn't exist (it could be suggested that that is being a liar?)and referring to irrelevant legislation?

Maybe take a step back and examine how you engage with recruiters? There are good ones out there (and I know there are many that should never be let work in the industry also). Do a bit of research in to the ones that are established in your sector, look beyond the company and at the actual recruiter. If an experienced recruiter has a long track record with the same company they must be doing something right?

A good recruiter will always be fishing into the companies you have worked for as well as who you are talking to. But the reasoning is two fold, its not just to try grow their client base, but also to try establish how you work, what motivates you, what works for you in a job and what you are trying to achieve in or gain in a new role.

The reality is that internally recruitment is very transparent, success is gauged by the level of fee income you generate and by default how many people you place. Having a big database is worthless if you are not placing people, CV harvesting is a pointless exercise.

Invest time in your CV, that is how you are initially viewed. Ask for advice from experienced recruiters. If you don't get on well with a recruiter its very hard for them to put their neck on the line for you, some times client will ask them to do that, ie stake their reputation on a candidate.

Trust is very important in the process and it works both ways, applicants should / have to be able to trust the recruiter but the recruiter also has to be able to trust the applicant. Always try to remember this in your dealings.

Most importantly if you have a bad experience move on. You may need to talk to that person again, don't cut off your nose in spite of your face, but learn from the experience you gained and if there is a next time you can handle them in a different manner.

If applying for a position advertised with a recruiter put a bit of effort into it.
Try make your application stand out form the other 100 applicants (not by using wacky fonts or colours).
Be clear and concise in your cover note, also personalise it if you can.
Make it easy for the recruiter to understand why you are the right person for the role. Dont lie.
If you feel a recruiter is lying to you challenge them, don't accept it. But do it in a non confrontational manner, there is noting to be gained by falling out.

Hope this helps in some way... and be assured unprofessional and unethical recruiters nearly always get found out in the end.

Steam

whatnext wrote: »

Is this your response to being caught quoting legislation that doesn't exist (it could be suggested that that is being a liar?)and referring to irrelevant legislation?

Maybe take a step back and examine how you engage with recruiters? There are good ones out there (and I know there are many that should never be let work in the industry also). Do a bit of research in to the ones that are established in your sector, look beyond the company and at the actual recruiter. If an experienced recruiter has a long track record with the same company they must be doing something right?

A good recruiter will always be fishing into the companies you have worked for as well as who you are talking to. But the reasoning is two fold, its not just to try grow their client base, but also to try establish how you work, what motivates you, what works for you in a job and what you are trying to achieve in or gain in a new role.

The reality is that internally recruitment is very transparent, success is gauged by the level of fee income you generate and by default how many people you place. Having a big database is worthless if you are not placing people, CV harvesting is a pointless exercise.

Invest time in your CV, that is how you are initially viewed. Ask for advice from experienced recruiters. If you don't get on well with a recruiter its very hard for them to put their neck on the line for you, some times client will ask them to do that, ie stake their reputation on a candidate.

Trust is very important in the process and it works both ways, applicants should / have to be able to trust the recruiter but the recruiter also has to be able to trust the applicant. Always try to remember this in your dealings.

Most importantly if you have a bad experience move on. You may need to talk to that person again, don't cut off your nose in spite of your face, but learn from the experience you gained and if there is a next time you can handle them in a different manner.

If applying for a position advertised with a recruiter put a bit of effort into it.
Try make your application stand out form the other 100 applicants (not by using wacky fonts or colours).
Be clear and concise in your cover note, also personalise it if you can.
Make it easy for the recruiter to understand why you are the right person for the role. Dont lie.
If you feel a recruiter is lying to you challenge them, don't accept it. But do it in a non confrontational manner, there is noting to be gained by falling out.

Hope this helps in some way... and be assured unprofessional and unethical recruiters nearly always get found out in the end.

If I may answer this and that is to say that I am only quoting and that what I was told and they did get there personal details back from the agency.

whatnext

Steam wrote: »

If I may answer this and that is to say that I am only quoting and that what I was told and they did get there personal details back from the agency.

That doesn't change the fact that what you said is incorrect.

Pee Fortyfive

I think it's fair to say that most people here agree that agencies in general are a lousy shower of snakes. But what is the best way of dealing with them?

They always ask what jobs you have applied for, who you have interviewed with, what other agencies you are registered with etc. Should you fob them off , give them as little info as possible, or tell them the truth? I don't think it is wise to divulge everything with them personally.

What I have found as well that they will drop you after a while , and not a long while either, if you haven't been offered an interview through them or have been interviewed but weren't successful. Should you keep pestering them? And what is to prevent them from saying they submitted you for such and such a job to keep you quiet while not putting you forward at all?

ABajaninCork

Personally, I tell them nothing. I'm not giving them leads for free. Let them work for their money!!

Ray Palmer

I deal with agents a fair bit and generally they are fine. Generally I think it is peoples' expectations that are the problem. Realistically speaking you are not the customer and if you don't match the criteria required you aren't going to get an interview.

There are things agents that do that really are irritating
1) Quizzing you on the last place you worked to see if they can get work that way
2) CV harvesting by placing up non existent jobs
3) Automated e-mails about roles and when you ring the person doesn't even know it was sent
4) Failure to respond to contact

I am now at the point where I speak candidly with agents and they are also speak the same to me. There are agents I just don't deal with now due to the reasons above but mainly reason 4. They still ring me including the individuals whom I specifically have told that I find them personally unprofessional and I never want to hear from them again.

No point getting angry just be blunt. Applying to a agency is not like applying for a job and people should remember that. Never rely on single agencies and rate them yourself. You will soon find out who suits you.

I will say Harvey Nash annoyed me at times but they also were able to get me more than one job offer within 3 days on more than one occasion.

Like most things you get more out of them if you are nice to them rather than irritated by them.

CPL used to be a really big name in IT recruitment but I don't even rate them now as they get nearly no unique roles and seem to even get very few roles overall.

Steam

How much do agencies get for placing someone in a fulltime job?

whatnext

Steam wrote: »

How much do agencies get for placing someone in a fulltime job?

It could be anywhere between €500 to several tens of thousands.
It depends on a number of factors.
How the recruiter is engaged: Search or contingency
The industry: Some sectors have higher fees
The level of seniority of the vacancy
The salary, the fee is usually calculated as a percentage of the salary. (I've heard fees quoted anywhere between 8% and 33%). But I have heard of fixed fees for high volume entry level recruitment.
How difficult it will be to fill the role.

COYW

whatnext wrote: »

The salary, the fee is usually calculated as a percentage of the salary. (I've heard fees quoted anywhere between 8% and 33%). But I have heard of fixed fees for high volume entry level recruitment.

Wow, I was told that it was between 5% and 8% from people I know who worked in HR.

whatnext

COYW wrote: »

Wow, I was told that it was between 5% and 8% from people I know who worked in HR.

In what sector??

My sector is generally between 15% and 22% depending on what is involved.

I've heard rumours about 8% but never 5%.

I heard there was an agency (could have been BS) doing €500, €1000 and €2000 fixed fees for hospitality, customer service and call centre work but they didn't last long.

whomitconcerns

30% of first year is still around for higher paid harder to find roles

Steam

Well I have been charged more than that and won't be going back again.

COYW

whatnext wrote: »

In what sector??

My sector is generally between 15% and 22% depending on what is involved.

I've heard rumours about 8% but never 5%.

The IT sector, software (C#, VB.Net) in particular. I can't believe that a company is willing to pay an agent 15-22%. Madness if that is the case.

Ray Palmer

COYW wrote: »

The IT sector, software (C#, VB.Net) in particular. I can't believe that a company is willing to pay an agent 15-22%. Madness if that is the case.

I am a daily rate contractor and they charge between 20%-30% on top of my rate the entire time I am in a company. So if I stay in a place for two years they can make a mountain of money off me. The amount of work involved in minuscule. Maybe 3 hours work in total for them to do with all agents.

king size mars bar

Anyone recommend a good recruitment company around kilkenny/carlow area.

GatsbyGal

Hi. Can anyone recommend a reliable recruitment agency in Galway? I would ideally like to bypass them entirely but alas don't seem to have any choice. It would be a business analyst/developer/design roles I would be looking for. Have submitted the resume to a few but getting little to no bites at all back. Would be very appreciative of any information from anyone. Many thanks.

Steam

GatsbyGal wrote: »

Hi. Can anyone recommend a reliable recruitment agency in Galway? I would ideally like to bypass them entirely but alas don't seem to have any choice. It would be a business analyst/developer/design roles I would be looking for. Have submitted the resume to a few but getting little to no bites at all back. Would be very appreciative of any information from anyone. Many thanks.

I do not know any agencies in galway, but as you said you would like to bypass them entirely and as it sounds they have not forwarder to any prospective employers and so I would try the companes directly yourself. I now work for myself and personally would not use agencys and in the past I have never had any interviews these people and have always got work without them.

freeze4real

Is it wise to decline an interview prep with agency. I have gone to some and they were a waste of time and transport money., I have one with recruiter and I want to say thanks but n thanks.

COYW

freeze4real wrote: »

Is it wise to decline an interview prep with agency. I have gone to some and they were a waste of time and transport money., I have one with recruiter and I want to say thanks but n thanks.

Yes, they are completely pointless.

I was dragged to one years ago. I had been through three interview rounds with the company and the agent was adamant that I had to come and do this prep-interview with him the day before the final interview and that he couldn't have this chat over the phone. So, I had to arrange more time off from work.

The "prep interview" lasted no more than 3 mins and I was fuming. I got offered the job after the final company interview and I turned it down as I felt the whole interview process was completely OTT. The agent was livid ("surprised I turned it down").

whatnext

freeze4real wrote: »

Is it wise to decline an interview prep with agency. I have gone to some and they were a waste of time and transport money., I have one with recruiter and I want to say thanks but n thanks.

Its a 50/50

some might be a box ticking exercise - ie client insisting all candidates are met and briefed before interview.

Other times the recruiter may have some good prep advice, client interview style for example. eg, I have a client who starts interviews in an aggressive manner, simply to see how people handle it, he wants to know how they will react if their client goes off on one (the reality is he is the most relaxed timid man you could meet). He explains what he was up to afterwards but react wrongly and the game is over.

Other times its merely for the recruiters reassurance and to be fair, I'm generally not going to put my neck on the line or offer a professional opinion on someone I have not met (if asked to do so). But that's just me.

If the recruiters feel they have no valid input to make its unlikely they would insist upon it, as that would be a complete waste of time and effort on their part also.

But as we all know there are also those in the game that have no idea what they are doing.

My advice would be to talk to the recruiter - ask what they hope to achieve and then make a judgement call.

BRITINDUBLIN

Hiya, What a recruiter charges a client shouldn't really bother you as candidate. the good news is the € isnt coming from your pocket. Recruiters make ends meet. the simple fact is, some people have no clue how to apply for jobs the same way some companies don't have a clue about how to recruit. I'm an IT recruiter working for a well known company and would be happy to answer any questions regarding what we do. I think there is a lot of mystery and myths behind how a recruitment agent actually operates so im happy to answer any queries.

BRITINDUBLIN

not1but4 wrote: »

Anyone ever asked to work exclusively with just one agent? Got a call from Hays today asked me just to work with them and not any other agents. Out of the 4 jobs he mentioned 3 I have already been told about by other recruiters. This is IT btw.

have to ask who this was? PM me

Fridge

COYW wrote: »

The "prep interview" lasted no more than 3 mins and I was fuming. I got offered the job after the final company interview and I turned it down as I felt the whole interview process was completely OTT. The agent was livid ("surprised I turned it down").

I hope you had another option at the time! For my last job, I went for 5 interviews between the agency and the employer. It's ok when it works out, but if it doesn't....

Is it wise to decline an interview prep with agency. I have gone to some and they were a waste of time and transport money., I have one with recruiter and I want to say thanks but n thanks.

If you really need the work, I think it's best to ask "is it necessary to do this in person, or could we chat over the phone and then I go straight to the interview if you feel it appropriate?". In this day and age, Skype shouldn't beyond recruitment agencies.

I am sure they hear this more often nowadays because the cost of travel is more significant if you're not earning, and people are probably going to lots of fruitless interviews wondering why they've bothered.

But if they do insist to see you in person, and you sound really unenthusiastic, they might just pick someone else to put forward to the employer.

Ray Palmer

BRITINDUBLIN wrote: »

Hiya, What a recruiter charges a client shouldn't really bother you as candidate. the good news is the € isnt coming from your pocket. Recruiters make ends meet. the simple fact is, some people have no clue how to apply for jobs the same way some companies don't have a clue about how to recruit. I'm an IT recruiter working for a well known company and would be happy to answer any questions regarding what we do. I think there is a lot of mystery and myths behind how a recruitment agent actually operates so im happy to answer any queries.

That is a bit of a stock response from recruiters. While the candidate doesn't pay the money to the agency that money can be taken from the wage. I know as a daily rate contractor the charges from an agent DOES come from my pocket. If I go directly I can get the extra amount spent on the agency.

In the UK agencies cut their rate the longer you stay and this is normally passed on to the person doing the work. So 20% for the first 6 months then 15% for the next and it keeps going down each 6 months to zero. Mean while the contractor is getting a 5% increase by staying. Not sure if that is legislation or just common practice. I would like to see the same here as it seems reasonable.

Some of the mystery to what agents do is down to them hiding what they do. They won't even tell me the rate they charge on top as I am not the client. They have also lied about their rates to me on more than one occasion and that is different agencies.

Steam

I have used one agency to find staff for my company and these people still think it is ok to keep advertising jobs that do not excist and they are very wrong, this seems to be common pratice though. They really need to get a grip on reality and one other thing the recruitment federation have a code of conduct and how can these people write this stufff considering that they are recruitment agencies themselves.

ebayissues

Hi all,

What does 25,000 per month amount to when working for 37.5hrs per week ?

I did the maths and its just over 2080.

But when I do the maths with the amount I'm getting paid per hour its under 2083.

Stheno

Do you mean per year?

25000 per year is 2083.33 per month gross

Over fifty two weeks, at 37.5 hours per week, you will have a work year of 1950 hours, so your hourly rate would be 12.82