French Cars - Oui ou Non??

Caribs

In the market for a used car/MPV and considering various options including the Renault Grand Scenic or Peugot 407 Estate. Some people think they're great while others wouldnt touch them with a barge pole because they're french.

Have things such as the electrics in the french cars improved or are you as well off avoiding them?

junkyard

Stay well clear of French cars they are absolute rubbish. I'm serious.:)

mike65

I'm wearing my hard hat for this thread! <edit> Gah! To late - incoming!

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

Caribs wrote:

In the market for a used car/MPV and considering various options including the Renault Grand Scenic or Peugot 407 Estate. Some people think they're great while others wouldnt touch them with a barge pole because they're french.

Save yourself the trouble of askign here, thats exactly the response you'll get. Junkyard, colm and a few others will be on to say run run run.

While myself , Brian d3 and our ganag will say good choice and will list (if you like) our many trouble free french cars, all renault in my case.

This is becoming the new alfa debate.

I vote for this thread to be locked now to avoid carnage.:)




EDIt. no sooner did I say the J word, hence he appears.:)

Gatster

I've had a Renault 5 and a Citroen AX and the AX was trouble free motoring for a long time and had quite a hard life. I loved it, but given the choice of a larger modern French motor I'd probably pass, although I love the new C6....

crosstownk

From my experience, I do have to say that current Renaults are not the most reliable cars in the world. Older ones are not so bad. But, tbh, I find that Citroens and Peugeots are no better or worse than their German counterparts.

junkyard

Its only getting started... I'm getting my case history's ready and believe me there are loads of them. Lets see now, will we start alphabetically or go straight to the worst one?:)

junkyard

Renault Clio.....electrical disaster.
Renault Megane (or Migraine as they're know in the motortrade) unreliable, poorly built and awkward to work on.
Renault Laguna....dodgy electrics, dodgy engines and suspensions and as a result, unsaleable secondhand.
Renault Senic....design faults which even Renault can't fix and unreliable.

Guy:Incognito

junkyard wrote:

Renault Clio.....electrical disaster.
Renault Megane (or Migraine as they're know in the motortrade) unreliable, poorly built and awkward to work on.
Renault Laguna....dodgy electrics, dodgy engines and suspensions and as a result, unsaleable secondhand.
Renault Senic....design faults which even Renault can't fix and unreliable.

Seeing as youve started.

My 00 clio, not one problem, electrical or otherwise.
My cousins 02 clio, likewise

My 93 and 97 safranes, both tip top.

The missus 00 scenic, no problems. (getting replaced with a new grand scenic next year hopefully)

Mates 96 renault 19, perfect.

Godfathers string of lagunas where the only problem was a snapped tb, which was his own fault as he let it go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over due.

Guy in work is a painter and has a kangoo 4 years from new, loves it.

Cant all be coincidence

The lord mayor has a renault (vel satis) too.


Plus my clios be turned into an ad hoc van for the last 6 months carrying 20-30 stone of plumbing gear with no problem. (especially compared to my cousins 01 corsa with 32k miles that sounds like a 40 year old diesel tractor, seriously frighntning being in it , it feels like its falling apart)


As has been said on other threads, theres not a make around that somone hasnt had issues with.

mloc123

Oui.

The grand espace is the daddy of all MPVs.

mike65

This months Car Mechanics mag gives the Laguna 2 the treatment - much to report on!

Mike.

junkyard

It has to be said, with Renault, unreliability, poor build quality and dodgy electrics are the rule rather than the exception and this is a major issue at trade in time.

overdriver

NON!!

Mate's BRAND NEW Megane coupe..back to dealer like it's on elastic. His wife's Pug 207 repeatedly filled the cabin with smoke...back to dealer. Fiances dad's brand new megane's engine management light keeps coming on, so back to the dealers, over and over again.

Didn't the Scenic have the highest percentage of back-to-dealer returns?

http://money.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1862970,00.html

Of course the Ford Edsel has a hard-core, die-hard set of fans who swear by it, so no matter how bad a car is, someone here will defend it.

crosstownk

mloc123 wrote:

Oui.

The grande sceinic is the daddy of all MPVs.

I'm sorry - but I give that accolade to the Espace.

TomMc

Caribs wrote:

In the market for a used car/MPV and considering various options including the Renault Grand Scenic or Peugot 407 Estate. Some people think they're great while others wouldnt touch them with a barge pole because they're french.

Have things such as the electrics in the french cars improved or are you as well off avoiding them?

The french cars tend to come in very low in all the JD Power / Top Gear customer surveys which says it all.

If you really must ... I would go with a Renault, long before a Peugeot.

Best to go Japanese and save yourself all that potential hassle. Lots to choose from between Subaru (Legacy, Outback & Forester are brilliant cars if a petrol fits in with your requirements), otherwise for diesel options look at Honda, Toyota or Mitsubishi.

mloc123

crosstownk wrote:

I'm sorry - but I give that accolade to the Espace.

Ooops that what I meant, editted now

fletch

My Auntie had a '99 Clio.....was riddled with electrical problems.

colm_mcm

the reliability surveys seem to back you up there fletch!

Just My View

junkyard wrote:

Stay well clear of French cars they are absolute rubbish. I'm serious.:)

So you wouldn't advise me to buy a 1999 Citroen Saxo 1.1 p/s nct 7/07 for €2950 like the one advertised in your sig then, no?

You may consider yourself duly zinged.

mikedragon32

Just My View wrote:

So you wouldn't advise me to buy a 1999 Citroen Saxo 1.1 p/s nct 7/07 for €2950 like the one advertised in your sig then, no?

You may consider yourself duly zinged.

Took the words out of my mouth! JY often disses cars he has for sale.

Business is business, I know, but it doesn't help the impression most people have of used car dealers!

OP, I've had two Pug 307s. Minor issue with the first one but was given a courtesy car while it was fixed and never had any more problems. The second, which was brand new, was subject to a recall and again, easily fixed and hassle free.

I know my brother-in-law wouldn't touch a Renault with a barge pole and as a taxi driver that's an interesting sign. When we're in Nice we use one taxi driver all the time and he's just bought a brand new Espace and it's a beauty. He had been using a Mercedes Vito (I think). Very spacious and has loads of gadgets/toys in it, although the engine does sound a bit rough, even for a diesel.

When I was a kid, one of my neighbours always had Renaults and he always seemed to be working on it. I could never understand why he kept getting another one when the last one always broke down.

ambro25

To contrast the above somewhat...

My dad's had the largest Citroen going for the last 27 years or so, give or take (string of CXs, XMs, currently C5 and trading up to C6 shortly). Always turbo diesel, with one or two petrol 'escapades' over the years (had a couple of Mk1 CX 25 GTI Turbos, boy could these things shift - scared a few porshers and largeish beemers back in the day).

Not one of them has ever given him any hassle, save for manufacturer recalls (which were numerous for the XMs). The only CX that died on him was the GTI Turbo, but then again he was always driving motorways and often as not beyond 200 kph - and that died at over 200,000 kms. He has clocked on average 250,000 kms on each one before trading it.

Before that (mid to late 70s) he was well into Renaults (Renault 16s, if my memory serves). So in around 1987, he made a passing infidelity to Citroen and got a Renault 25 V6 with all the trimmings. During a service, a trainee mechanic replaced the cruise control fuse and put it in the wrong way around - on my dad went, put the cruise on unbeknownst and guess what? Some guy pulled out on him, he went to brake, CC didn't switch off, so my dad pressed harder. Eventually, back wheels lock up (despite ABS), front wheels still happily trundling along @ 130 kph = badabing (in a major, very major way - thankfully he was ejected through sunroof, otherwise he'd be dead: car did 3 full somersaults front to end in a ploughed field, bent in a V with engine halfway into compartment - you couldn't have got a spare f*cking bolt out of the wreck it was that mangled!)

Yet my mum bought a Twingo (after a couple of Golfs and an AX) and it's happily trundling along at least 10 years on, never skipped a beat - and it's had a hard life. irregular services, mostly city driving, and my kid bro cut his driving teeth on it. 150,000 kms on it or so, starts every morning, and everything works A-OK.

Personally, only FR cars I've had were 2 BX diesels (1,9D and 1,9 TZS turbo) and 2 AXs (GT and 1,4 TZS, both 2 doors). Never a day's worry, these -save for all the Asian cars I've had since- were the pick of the bunch. Each BX clocked beyond 200,000 kms, each AX beyond 150,000 kms. The only problems I've had was a blown engine on the BX 1,9D (trainee mechanic put the driving belt the wrong way around = about 20 motorway kms and bang) and a headgasket on the AX 1,4TZS (design fault, not enough room under bonnet for the 1,4 to breathe + me always at 160/170 kph = there ya go).

So that's for the motoring life history with FR cars. I'd wholehartedly second the Subaru choice posted earlier, but I hope the above goes some way to show that FR cars are no better or worse than anything coming out of IT or DE or elsewhere - save for JP (in my humble Op).

lassykk

any car thats not looked after is gonna give trouble.

my first car was a 97 clio with more hits than the beatles and i doubt if it had any of its original panels. That gave trouble... nothing major but annoying tings

my current car... a peugeot 406 coupe was bought from england with a FSH and is a dream to own. All depends on where u get ur car and how well its been looked after.

I personally tink German cars are a hell of a lot more unreliable. I have a friend who has put over €4000 in to fixing his VW Golf in the last year alone. The car didn't have a FSH but it seemed in good condition when he bought it but as its a VW it needed to be wrapped in cotton wool and kept in secure storage to stop it from breaking down

Kashkai

My Dad has always bought Renaults, no major problems to report. He still has a 1993 R19 that starts first time and does what he wants it to do, i.e. get from a 2 b and back again. My mother is on her 3rd Clio and no problems with any of them.

My wife had her Clio for 5 years, no probs there either. She's now got a Grand Scenic and loves it as it not only holds the 3 kids but the boot is massive. The option of using the 2 rear seats when our kid's friends want to visit is a great bonus.

I'm on my eight Renault, a megane. My last megane was bought brand new in 1996, ran it for 9 years and sold it with 120k on the clock - not one single problem with this car during the 9 years I owned it. My sister in law bought it and it has since passed the NCT again at its first attempt.

So to sum up, between us all, my family have had some 17 Renaults and we have never, not once, had any problems with any of them - or are we just insanely lucky? If so, I've got to buy a lotto ticket.

Blue850

crosstownk wrote:

I'm sorry - but I give that accolade to the Espace.

Ahem...

crosstownk

Blue850 wrote:

Ahem...

LOL - It took a minute to figure out the front from the back

prospect

PM Sent to the OP

pburns

Have little faith in French cars in general with one exception (strictly speaking it's not a car although a passenger version available)...

...the Citroen Berlingo van...

I have a friend who grew up in a garage, dabbles himself part-time, who HATES anything that isn't Japanese. But he swears by the Berlingo, says it knocks spots off the VW Caddy & such-like. The main problem with Frenchies are the electrics & the Berlingo is pretty simple and even the most ardent anti-Frenchies will agree the 1.9 Peugeot diesel is a proven workhorse.

Main problem with French manufacturers is they try to stuff in loads of gizmos for showroom appeal but don't develop or test them with much thoroughness...

Joeyjoejoe43

Non

Steer well clear of french cars, in particular Citroens and Renaults. They're nothing but trouble. The most reliable and reasonably priced cars on the market are japanese. Fact.

gyppo

mike65 wrote:

This months Car Mechanics mag gives the Laguna 2 the treatment - much to report on!

Mike.

Yes Mike, I've read it. There appears to be issues to watch out for practically on every part of the car.

joeblogg1

I had a 2001 Peugeot 607 (cost 45K) which gave endless trouble. After a week engine warning lights came on and in the first 6 months car was taken away on a truck 3 times. At least once a month it had to go to garage to have warning lights (garage said there was no reason for them to come on) reset.

After 25,000 miles engine imploded one morning on the way to work (official reply from OPeugeot was "metal fatigue in a con rod")

We have a number of reps in Lagunas at work and I am responsible for fleet maintenance. We could keep a garage ourselves with the number of engine rebuilds, transmission failures and electric problems we have with them

STEER WELL CLEAR unless you want a full time repair hobby at the weekends !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Seanie M

A Citroen driver myself of 2 cars in 6 years - the '97 ZX Elysée, and currently a '99 Xsara Coupé.

Both are extraordinarily hard working. For the roads I have had to travel during my time wit them, carrying disco gear half way across the country with pot holes and speed bumps, both have come up trumps. The Xsara reliability is very good. I'm on 140,000 miles with no sign of her conking out on me. Engine is perfect except for a tiny camshaft oil seal leak, but it is not a problem to worry about at all. It has been there for about 50,000 miles with no trouble!

I believe all this ardgy bardgy about steering clear of French cars can be warranted. But, without a doubt the Citroen is the better of the 3. I won't hesitate considering a Citroen for my 3rd car when I can afford it, but, froom hearsay (1st hand) I will not ever get a Renault, and just as less-likely to get a Peugot - despite the fact half the parts in a Peugot are made by Citroen! Its the other half of parts that worry me!

Seanie.