Renault, Pile of scrap, or Reliable Wheels?

colm_mcm

Toyota, Mazda and Subaru I reckon are the best built.

EDIT: throw Honda in there too.

junkyard

colm_mcm wrote:

Toyota, Mazda and Subaru I reckon are the best built.

I'd say so too, if I was to buy one of the three I'd go for the Subaru though, I think they're a bit more exclusive. Even though the Subaru doesn't hold its money well its still a superior product to the others.

starman100

Well, I am on my 4th Renault (3 Meganes and a 19 before that) and I have to say that in the main, they have all been pretty reliable. One or two niggles like ignition coil needed replacing (under warranty) on the latest Megane and the window electrics started playing up but nothing major.

Engines are not overly powerful and compared to the Mondeo we had for a while, driving experience is crap. But SWMBO likes the Megane so we had to change.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the very good safety features with the Renaults, they all have the top NCAP rating, etc. Lots of electrics but lots of airbags as well.

Pity about the poor residuals, I guess the only solution is to drive them into the ground .

eamon234

crosstownk wrote:

TBH, A Toyota. Not my first choice to drive, but taking into account reliability, ownership experience and residual value, the Toyota brand is tops. Most Japanese brands aren't far behind either. Japanese design and styling is not as good as the European manufacturers, imo.

I know but they're so bloody boring the Corolla and Avensis are as dull as dishwater - they look hideous - if they only sexed them up a a bit....get Pininfarina to design the new models I say!

colm_mcm

eamon234 wrote:

I know but they're so bloody boring the Corolla and Avensis are as dull as dishwater - they look hideous - if they only sexed them up a a bit....get Pininfarina to design the new models I say!

They appeal to a huge amount of people though. I don't reckon anyone needs to give Toyota lessons on how to make cars people want.

Anyway. Wasn't Pinninfarina responsible for this?

And this?

Guy:Incognito

kind of on the subject of residuals (but not really. Why would any garage order one of these http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=203423 into stock or take one as a trade in. It will never shift. Appologies if I'm generalising but the boy racers that the type of car appeals to wont want a 3ltr engine and wont be spending €44k. Especially when the 2ltr model for half the money, has similar performance.

Also, other than it being a low nember, how is 05 wx 6 a cherished reg? It has no relevance to the car

I'm actually considering a 2nd hand clio 197 as a 2nd car in a couple of years just to give it a go.

crosstownk

Stekelly wrote:

kind of on the subject of residuals (but not really. Why would any garage order one of these http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=203423 into stock or take one as a trade in. It will never shift. Appologies if I'm generalising but the boy racers that the type of car appeals to wont want a 3ltr engine and wont be spending €44k. Especially when the 2ltr model for half the money, has similar performance.

Also, other than it being a low nember, how is 05 wx 6 a cherished reg? It has no relevance to the car

I'm actually considering a 2nd hand clio 197 as a 2nd car in a couple of years just to give it a go.

It'd be saleproof on a Renault main dealer's forecourt. But in the right forecourt it might shift......................

knifey_spoonie

On the basis of resale value

Just came up today

Change 06 corolla to 07 € 3500- 4000
Change 06 megane to 07 corolla € 7000-8000

now if youve just bought a megane and you find that next year you want to change to anything but a renault your going to lose your arse and a bit of your spine and the any part of your body in the arse area

Not to mention a lunguna when within a years warrenty youre almost definitaly going to replace window regs and see it back because renault have great ideas for electrics but can never build to the quality needed

Not to mention replacing the water pump on a megane with 25000 miles

And thats from experience

ds20prefecture

junkyard wrote:

I think its fair to say that people in the motor trade will have more experience in seeing problems in the likes of Renaults than most other people and as a result are more reliable witnesses than most.

Yes... People in the motor trade are very reliable all right...

I have to laugh - the biggest problem that brands like Renault and Alfa have are the ****e dealers and botched maintenance jobs. And their biggest detractors are the motor trade.

colm_mcm

ds20prefecture wrote:

Yes... People in the motor trade are very reliable all right...

I have to laugh - the biggest problem that brands like Renault and Alfa have are the ****e dealers and botched maintenance jobs. And their biggest detractors are the motor trade.

you can't blame the dealers for poorly constructed cars.

ds20prefecture

Perhaps not, but I can blame dealers for not sorting out the problems of poorly constructed cars. You, whom as far as I know work for a Toyota dealer, know that cars are very complex things and are prone to failure. The difference is that Toyota dealers give a damn about their clients.

ds20prefecture

Oh and in terms of design flair, innovation and passive safety Renault aren't anywhere near the same league as the Japs. The Japs are a million miles behind. As are the Germans, by and large.

Motors@boards.ie - about as unbiased and open minded as sky news.

God I hate propaganda.

overdriver

...and what of the niggling issue of reliability, DS20? How far behind are the Japs there? How come they seem to be able to make cars which are, on the whole, more reliable? Could it be that they don't rush their innovations? Are cautious in that regard?

So what's preferable: flair, or actually getting to where you're going?

crosstownk

ds20prefecture wrote:

Perhaps not, but I can blame dealers for not sorting out the problems of poorly constructed cars. You, whom as far as I know work for a Toyota dealer, know that cars are very complex things and are prone to failure. The difference is that Toyota dealers give a damn about their clients.

To a certain extent you are right - but not entirely. So many cars nowadays have specialised equipment on board that is particular to each car. It is up to the manufacturer to ensure that all dealers are properly trained and knowledgeable of the systems in each particular brand, and of course how to identify problems. Some manufacturers do this well and others don't.

Also, if a particular brand is particularly unreliable then the dealer is going to be quite busy, this doesn't help matters. Often there are problems that arise where neither dealer nor the manufacturer can identify the source of the problem - this doesn't happen regurlarly but its not unheard of.

And you are right, Toyota dealers do give a damn about their clients and nationwide, Toyota dealers are probably the best ,nicest and easiest to deal with especially if you compare them to most VW dealers whose attitude stinks. I find Renault dealers lie somewhere in the middle.

Vegeta

French cars are always at the bottom of JD Power surveys.


Are those suveys any good, can you believe what they say or are they a load of sh1te

junkyard

Vegeta wrote:

French cars are always at the bottom of JD Power surveys.


Are those suveys any good, can you believe what they say or are they a load of sh1te

It looks like its all a myth, French cars are the ultimate cars to own in every way, yeah right. I will hand it to them on a couple of things, the Peugeot 504, the Renault 16 and the Citroen DS were probably the three greatest cars the French ever made but its all been down hill from there, its a pity really because they can do it if they really wanted to.

@ DS check out the allocated times to do routine maintenance on most French cars compared to most other brand names. Check out GlassMatics, it makes for some depressing reading for French brands.

prospect

junkyard wrote:

It looks like its all a myth, French cars are the ultimate cars to own in every way, yeah right.

I don't think anybody is saying that.
What they ARE saying is that French cars are not ABSOLOUTLY TERRIBLE, as you insist.

Lets be grown up here for a minute:
To say ALL french cars are crap, and that ALL Japanese cars are brilliant, that is just childish, foolish, naive and frankly untrue.


Also to whomever suggested that Toyota are generally the most reliable manufacturer, you are wrong. Mazda are, followed by Honda, followed in third place by Toyota.

Also, the actual fundamental difference between the most reliable and the least reliable is actually very small. Probably 5 or 6 cars per 100 might require one extra visit per annum on average.

Vegeta

prospect wrote:

I don't think anybody is saying that.
What they ARE saying is that French cars are not ABSOLOUTLY TERRIBLE, as you insist.

Lets be grown up here for a minute:
To say ALL french cars are crap, and that ALL Japanese cars are brilliant, that is just childish, foolish, naive and frankly untrue.


Also to whomever suggested that Toyota are generally the most reliable manufacturer, you are wrong. Mazda are, followed by Honda, followed in third place by Toyota.

Also, the actual fundamental difference between the most reliable and the least reliable is actually very small. Probably 5 or 6 cars per 100 might require one extra visit per annum on average.

I mean this in the best way but can you quote your source for this as I have been looking for stats all day and I can only find those JD Power surveys which are customer satisfaction surveys not reliability ones.

So if you could point me in the direction of a reliable reliability survey (da dum tish) i'd greatly appreciate it

prospect

Vegeta wrote:

I mean this in the best way but can you quote your source for this as I have been looking for stats all day and I can only find those JD Power surveys which are customer satisfaction surveys not reliability ones.

So if you could point me in the direction of a reliable reliability survey (da dum tish) i'd greatly appreciate it

Lovely :rolleyes: , you put me on the spot;) .

Well, looking at the more recent survey, there is an entirely different story!

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/top10.html?apc=3128339010848601

junkyard

Reading car magazines to find the truth about cars is like reading Time magazine to find out about the Iraq war. In my experience with magazines they can be swayed one way or the other by who pays the most money, pretty much like any news paper tbh. To put it in easier term for some people to understand, if your building a house you ask an engineer for his or her opinion and value it, if your buying a boat you ask a marine surveyor his or her opinion and value that. If I knew nothing about cars I'd be inclined to ask a mechanic or a panel beater his or her opinion and value it, I mightn't necessarily agree with it but I would assume they have some idea about what they are talking about.

Guy:Incognito

Vegeta wrote:

French cars are always at the bottom of JD Power surveys.


Are those suveys any good, can you believe what they say or are they a load of sh1te

Someone posted the last one here recently and the bottom 3 (iirc) included Land rover and audi.

Vegeta

Stekelly wrote:

Someone posted the last one here recently and the bottom 3 (iirc) included Land rover and audi.

They were indeed but the 3 big french names are always in the bottom section aswell

Again though those serveys are customer satisfaction and not reliability so, running costs, services and other stuff cann affect a cars placing

so its not a true look at reliability only a hint

colm_mcm

crosstownk wrote:

And you are right, Toyota dealers do give a damn about their clients and nationwide, Toyota dealers are probably the best ,nicest and easiest to deal with especially if you compare them to most VW dealers whose attitude stinks. I find Renault dealers lie somewhere in the middle.

Toyota dealers are so helpful because Toyota Ireland work very closely with the dealers, and do a huge amount of communication with Toyota customers. dealerships have to meet certain customer satisfaction targets, if they don't - they're in trouble

Volvoboy

My experence on Renaults are horrible cars to work on, a door build up on a Corolla pales in time taken to build up a meagane door, renault doors are stupidly put together, window motors screwd into the door suabs and bolted through the window regulator, plasic wings that never line up, horid gearbox and clutch, only thing going for it is the seats very comfy.


-VB-

colm_mcm

yeah, but that Nicole is still a cracker

Guy:Incognito

colm_mcm wrote:

yeah, but that Nicole is still a cracker

The one in the new clio ad is a cracke ralright, but shes never the original nicole is she? she looks far too young.

colm_mcm

THe original Nicole probably has an Espace now.

breanoh

To be honest lads, My family hasn't owned any of the newer renaults, but we have never had a problem with them. My Dad has driven Renaults since the 70's and has never complained. 4's, 5's 6's 9's 11's a 14, a couple of 21 Savanna's and a 19 chamade Along with a brief flirtation with a 25. My Grandad had 4 Renault 16's and a couple of 4's. My aunt had a 00 Mégane. Another Aunt had a 9, uncle had a couple of Renault Extra's. I have had a 5, 6 and the 9 which I currently drive. NEVER had a problem, any of them! To be honest, we currently have on the driveway, 1979 Renault 6, 1986 Renault 9 and 1986 Renault 11. All really comfortable, reliable and economical. Wouldn't drive anything else. A couple of friends have clio's and they love them, never give trouble. So I don't know where the whole Pile of Sh*&e comes from.
Peugeot are also pretty good, never had any trouble from them either. So leave the French cars alone.
And before you say..... My Dad is a mechanic, and I have learned from him since I could hold a spanner, and am considered as a mechanic, even though I have never officially trained. So I know what I am talking about.

galwaytt

Well, let's get back to the title of the thread - 'what do you think etc'....it is not an empirical survey, nor is it a canvass of mechanics/traders - it's a canvas, in the main, of those who put their money where there mouths/arses are - in the cars.

So I step up. I've bought 3 Scenics since 1999, two of them new. 2 petrol 1.4 16v (excellent, excellent engine, btw...), and one secondhand dCi diesel, this year. 80k on Scenic 1, 83k on Scenic 2, so far, and 8k on the dCi so far. (We have two, right now, at the same time). Faults? Ignition coils on the 1.4. Just like all the Opel Zafira's. Just like all the VAG 1.8 engines - Passat/A4/TT (I've had two). MAF on the diesel. (Just like the TT and every Passat ever made). I have no electrical faults on the cars themselves. Not even a battery. Timing belt done at 63k, just like everything else on the road. My E-class has had 3 warranty jobs inside the last 12mths, and it only had 58k on the clock - MB can only aspire to the Renault longevity - high mileage ones are common, and that's because they do the miles, repeatedly. Doesn't eat suspension joints - unlike every VW/Audi you can name - still on original exhausts - have sailed through 3 NCT's with no repairs.
Their interiors are the best of that price range around. I do not doubt that Toyota's/etc are good, but jesus they're as boring and as mean as ****e compared to the Renault.

No, they are not perfect. They do have faults.....it is the overall balance that counts. And turning a Corolla into a Corolla vs turning a Megane into a Corolla is a complete bogus calculation. For a start, the Megane is cheaper to buy in the first place. If it was that easy, we'd all rush out and buy a rake of Dacia's and trade them for IS220D's............and pocket the change.

That 'perfect' car doesn't exist - including Toyota's, and Mr Toyota here can come clean on the no of replacement engine blocks Toyota Irl had have to dole out f.o.c. here too. Likewise Nissan and their Patrol Diesels - the engine is as useful as a pair of concrete boots.....

The Renault's achilles heel is indeed, residuals, but I honestly don't know why they're so low - they sell a ****load of new ones, so it's a bit perplexing......but if you're in the market to buy, the world is your oyster. Heck, if you wanted to save real money, you could buy a used 03 Nissan Primera for peanuts..........

So, to recap - are they any worse than any other Euro car? - No. Better equipped, for the price, than the others, and consistently higher NCAP's. Incredibly well thought out interiors. Useful. Cheap. No sign of rust (yet, anyway..). Comfortable. Good lights and brakes. Light on juice. And the 1.4 16v puts out 20bhp more than the 8v 1.6......

And for reliability, well it's got to be Mazda. My 1990 MX-5 is by FAR the most reliable car I have EVER owned. I have never had to repair it. Ever. But there again, it's made in Japan. Like the Scoobies, but they are very 'tinny', bodywork wise........and rattle a bit after a few years. Cars themselves are fine, though. Honda........mmm, that'd be good, no doubt. But are you getting the idea - all the best Jap cars are the ones actually built in Japan, not the UK...........but their interior guys could use some lessons, there's nothing worse than a nice car with 'curtain material' as seat material !!

[tangent] 'sfunny, Junkyard's sig, especially when he's got a Citroen for sale............[/tangent]

junkyard

And I have a Citroen Dispatch van too...traded it in and now can't sell either of them.:(