Sick to Death of No-Show Buses

bazzyk

email your complaints re buses to officialwheresthebus@hotmail.com. will be posted on www.officialwheresthebus.com

Wishbone Ash

bazzyk wrote:

email your complaints re buses to officialwheresthebus@hotmail.com. will be posted on www.officialwheresthebus.com

Would it not be more sensible to complain to the operator concerned?

shltter

Bambi wrote:

Correct me if im wrong but didnt CIE recieve over 500 million in state aid last year? Thats a hefty subsidy in most peoples book

Consider yourself corrected

CIE as a whole that is IE BE and DB received 285 million in 2005 in subvention or PSO which is a payment for providing social services that the Government deem essential

DB which is what most of the discussion is about here received 65 million of that 285 million for its social non economic social services. Whilst a subvention of 65 million may seem like a large amount of money it only represents 26% of DB income this is about half the EU average subvention.

People comparing public transport here to public transport in other EU countries should compare how much those countries spend on Public transport. As in various areas of this State such as Healthcare, Childcare, Education etc we wont spend the money and then wonder why our services dont measure up.

gline

shltter wrote:

Or perhaps you are suggesting that the timetable should take into account the worst possible scenario and provide sufficent running time for the longest possible delay. Of course the buses would nearly always be on time but it would be a huge waste of resources for the 300+ days of the year when it would not need any of that time.

timetables need to take into account delays which happen mon-fri at peak times. I dont see how this would be a waste of resources, the whole point of public transport is to adhere to a timetable and be on time while providing a public means of transport, in ireland it seems they dont give a damn about being on time and tend to blame traffic a lot, traffic isnt going to suddenly get lighter one day in fact it will probably get worse, so why dont DB just adjust their timetable accordingly

markpb

gline wrote:

timetables need to take into account delays which happen mon-fri at peak times. I dont see how this would be a waste of resources, the whole point of public transport is to adhere to a timetable and be on time while providing a public means of transport, in ireland it seems they dont give a damn about being on time and tend to blame traffic a lot, traffic isnt going to suddenly get lighter one day in fact it will probably get worse, so why dont DB just adjust their timetable accordingly

I know where you're coming from but the simple fact is that traffic in Dublin isn't just bad, it's unpredicably bad. This week on my route to work (Coolock to Clontarf): Monday and Thursday were bad, Tuesday and Thursday were rotten and today was traffic free. If you design a Mon-Fri timetable which is accurate, you can only plan for the worst case. This means any day where th traffic is less than rotten, you either have padding in the middle of the timetable (which annoys travelling customers) or you have buses sitting idle in between runs (which annoys waiting customers). How do you think DB should rectify this?

The simple fact is, DBs internal problems aside, without a really good bus priority network, no-one can come up with a decent timetable or provide decent services. This city does the bare minimum to let buses do their job and until that's fixed, bus services are going to remain crap.

Even the 100 extra buses due this year (after six years of political interfering - thank you PDs) will allow extra people to travel on a dire service without improving the service any.

gline

i agree it isnt all DB's fault but they dont seem to help matters much as some of the previous comments in this thread show

markpb

gline wrote:

i agree it isnt all DB's fault but they dont seem to help matters much as some of the previous comments in this thread show

What specific DB problems have people brought up in this thread that can't be entirely blamed on the lack of traffic management?

I've skimmed over it (again) and I've seen: the 4 is unreliable (traffic), the 38 is unreliable (traffic / god awful planning), some drivers are rude (inexcusable but it happens in every company) and some vague suggestion that somehow private operators would be able to do a better job while also complaining that Aircoach, a premium private operator, are unreliable too.

I'm no supporter of DB but in my opinion, people are looking in the wrong direction when they complain. Everyone, understandably, whines about DB and how crap they are while the city councils and the government either do nothing or actively block any progress without any blame at all. Even the press manage to miss this most of the time.

smash

here's a better one for you all.... in the lashing rain at 5.20 waiting on the 103 to Ashbourne 2 weeks ago on a wed night! the 5.40 bus comes and get this.... "Women only...." the drivers reasoning for this... "ah sure you can't leave the women out in the rain"

Then I made a swift call to Bus Eireann and after my call being cue'd for 10 mins I get through, make a complaint and get cut off mid sentence!

I eventually got the next bus at about 6.10 and was like a drowned rat!

Dyr

shltter wrote:

Consider yourself corrected

CIE as a whole that is IE BE and DB received 285 million in 2005 in subvention or PSO which is a payment for providing social services that the Government deem essential

Better correct CIE's accountants too then, they've gone and given a total for state grants in 2005 for 576 million

http://www.cie.ie/about_us/pdf/CIE_05_no_pics.pdf

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Dublin Bus drivers do not operate autonomously. If a drivers passes a stop it is because he has been instructed to do so via radio by a controller. That is a management operational decision, not the driver's but like in many occupations, the front line staff have to take the flak from these decisions. If you have a problem with a particular service, you should bring it to the attention of the Summerhill Garage Manager concerned. Insulting a driver who is doing what he is instructed is hardly constructive!

Management tell this guy that certain stops should be ignored because they arent convenient for him to stop at? They tell him to pull a bus up and have all the passengers pile onto the bus behind because he wants to take a detour up into glasnevin before continuing on his route? ( i rang the garage on that little stunt and they claimed they knew nothing). They tell him to treat their customers with contempt? He's not just doing what he's told, he's just doing what he wants :rolleyes:

Paulj

Surely a survey of traffic condition could be performed and this used to design a new timetable system for the Buses. People accept traffic is terrible in dublin, and it is much worse at peak times. Thats fine. What people want is buses to arrive on time. In general this should be possible to achieve. There are always going to be unpredictable occasions where something happens causing the timetable system to break down. But for the other 90% of the time the traffic situation is fairly predictable. People who drive to work every morning and evening use the same route and generally manage to be on time for work; this is because they use their past experience to figure out what time they must leave in the future.

It should also be possible to survey how many people use certain routes at certain times, this should be used to run extra or less buses at certain times depending on demand.

Taking traffic conditions and customer demand into account should allow a reasonably reliable timetable for each stop to be devised. The current situation where we are told the time it leaves the first stop and approximatly how long it takes to get to O'Connell Street is unnacceptable. This ambiguous way of timetabling buses allows drivers and bus operaters to lay the blame completely on factors outside of their control. But generally these factors are predictable so they must take most of the blame. Obviously there are not enough buses to run a high frequency service where a bus comes every 5 minutes so what is needed is to try and make the current service more reliable.

gline

Paulj wrote:

Surely a survey of traffic condition could be performed and this used to design a new timetable system for the Buses. People accept traffic is terrible in dublin, and it is much worse at peak times. Thats fine. What people want is buses to arrive on time. In general this should be possible to achieve. There are always going to be unpredictable occasions where something happens causing the timetable system to break down. But for the other 90% of the time the traffic situation is fairly predictable. People who drive to work every morning and evening use the same route and generally manage to be on time for work; this is because they use their past experience to figure out what time they must leave in the future.

It should also be possible to survey how many people use certain routes at certain times, this should be used to run extra or less buses at certain times depending on demand.

Taking traffic conditions and customer demand into account should allow a reasonably reliable timetable for each stop to be devised. The current situation where we are told the time it leaves the first stop and approximatly how long it takes to get to O'Connell Street is unnacceptable. This ambiguous way of timetabling buses allows drivers and bus operaters to lay the blame completely on factors outside of their control. But generally these factors are predictable so they must take most of the blame. Obviously there are not enough buses to run a high frequency service where a bus comes every 5 minutes so what is needed is to try and make the current service more reliable.

totally agree with this, if workers can be ontime 90%+ of the time in cars driving the same routes then why cant buses. Of course it wont be 100% reliable due to accidents etc but it can be a lot better then it is

markpb

Paulj wrote:

Taking traffic conditions and customer demand into account should allow a reasonably reliable timetable for each stop to be devised. The current situation where we are told the time it leaves the first stop and approximately how long it takes to get to O'Connell Street is unacceptable.

Your solution (apart from attracting the ire of local politicians) means that buses must now sit at mid-points in the route or at terminii because they made better time than usual. So instead of carrying people, they're sitting about doing nothing.

Given that there is already a rather large deficit of bus capacity in Dublin, you've switched reliability for capacity. In other words, the bus service gets more reliable but less people get to use it because the buses aren't being used.

On the other hand, if you fix the bus lanes, provide bus priority at junctions and close some city centre roads to all other traffic (yes that includes taxis), you provide a reliable, high capacity bus service with no waste.

Paulj

markpb wrote:

Your solution (apart from attracting the ire of local politicians) means that buses must now sit at mid-points in the route or at terminii because they made better time than usual. So instead of carrying people, they're sitting about doing nothing.

Given that there is already a rather large deficit of bus capacity in Dublin, you've switched reliability for capacity. In other words, the bus service gets more reliable but less people get to use it because the buses aren't being used.

On the other hand, if you fix the bus lanes, provide bus priority at junctions and close some city centre roads to all other traffic (yes that includes taxis), you provide a reliable, high capacity bus service with no waste.

I would gladly sit at midpoints along my route for bounded short periods of time rather than wait at a cold, wet bus stop for unbounded length's of time where i have no idea if i will be waiting 4 minutes or 40 minutes for the next bus. The current problem is the 'unknown' factor associated with waiting for buses. Do i wait longer in the hope that a bus will come along in such time that will allow me to arrive at my destination quicker than if i just walk straight away? A lot of people do just walk because the bus service is so shockingly unpredictable. At least if i know a bus departs in 20 minutes i can go and do something useful in that time. At least with a timetabled reliable system you can actually plan you're evening because you know what time to leave you're house, and you know what time (approx) you will be in town!

I do agree though that the measures you mention will help a great deal, they need to be done also. I admit for certain high frequency routes it may make no sense to have a timetabled system. But for the route i take (route 11), it would make sense to have it accurately timetabled. Another variation on this method is not to timetable every stop, but just to have certain busy key stops timetabled. This would cut down in unnecessary waiting while at the same time maintain a higher level of reliability than the current situation.

markpb

Paulj wrote:

I would gladly sit at midpoints along my route for bounded short periods of time rather than wait at a cold, wet bus stop for unbounded length's of time where i have no idea if i will be waiting 4 minutes or 40 minutes for the next bus.

As it happens, my bus has a waiting point three stops after me and I have to sit there every morning, sometimes only 5 minutes, sometimes as much as 15. On a bus journey that takes 50 minutes most mornings, it's very annoying to know that 15 of those minutes were wasted. I suspect a lot of other people would feel the same if they actually had to put up with it every day.

The current problem is the 'unknown' factor associated with waiting for buses. Do i wait longer in the hope that a bus will come along in such time that will allow me to arrive at my destination quicker than if i just walk straight away?

I agree wholeheartedly! But the real solution for this is the continued roll out of the GPS system and real time info signs at the bus stops. It doesn't help people until they've got to the bus stop but it would stop people walking off and be passed by a bus half way between stops Why wasn't this done? Government interference again. They started a pilot of it and then pulled the rest of the funding.

At least with a timetabled reliable system you can actually plan you're evening because you know what time to leave you're house, and you know what time (approx) you will be in town!

But during peak hours, the very system that makes it easier to get a bus, makes it harder to board because there will be reduced capacity. Would it be as helpful to know the bus will arrive at a fixed time if it arrives full and then sits at your stop because its ahead of schedule?

Paulj

markpb wrote:

As it happens, my bus has a waiting point three stops after me and I have to sit there every morning, sometimes only 5 minutes, sometimes as much as 15. On a bus journey that takes 50 minutes most mornings, it's very annoying to know that 15 of those minutes were wasted. I suspect a lot of other people would feel the same if they actually had to put up with it every day.

This is unfortunate but hopefully situations like this could be avoided by better timetable design and prediction of traffic conditions. Where they can't be predicted accuratly the timetabled system shouldn't be used.

markpb wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly! But the real solution for this is the continued roll out of the GPS system and real time info signs at the bus stops. It doesn't help people until they've got to the bus stop but it would stop people walking off and be passed by a bus half way between stops Why wasn't this done? Government interference again. They started a pilot of it and then pulled the rest of the funding.

This does sound like a good idea. Has this been done in other countries? and does it work well?

markpb wrote:

But during peak hours, the very system that makes it easier to get a bus, makes it harder to board because there will be reduced capacity. Would it be as helpful to know the bus will arrive at a fixed time if it arrives full and then sits at your stop because its ahead of schedule?

I suppose the degree to which this affects peak time travelling depends on the predictability of routes at peak times. If the route is predictable there should be little or no reduced capacity. At a guess i'd imagine many routes are fairly predictable? Perphaps it would warrant a study by DB? It would surely cost a lot less than deployment of the GPS tracking system you speak of. If the results were favourable then an improved bus system could be brought into effect easily enough over a short time period. This system won't suit all routes at all times. But it would serve some routes better.

markpb

Paulj wrote:

This is unfortunate but hopefully situations like this could be avoided by better timetable design and prediction of traffic conditions. Where they can't be predicted accurately the timetabled system shouldn't be used.

The reason my route is split like that is precisely because people complained that the route was unpredictable. They built a split departure time into it to make sure it leaves at the same time every day. The amount of waiting that causes varies hugely every day, as I said from 5 to 15 minutes depending on traffic on just one road.

This does sound like a good idea. Has this been done in other countries? and does it work well?

You don't have to look very far. They've started rolling it out in Belfast. Express routes in LA have it too. It's a fantastic tool implemented in cities all over the world that reduces the doubt in passengers minds.

A nice side-effect is that is gives DB a far better idea of what's happening around the city, both in the short-term for on the fly decision making and long term traffic modelling. It lets you analyse the weak peaks in the network, calculate the dwell time at particular stops, etc.

I suppose the degree to which this affects peak time travelling depends on the predictability of routes at peak times. If the route is predictable there should be little or no reduced capacity.

That's not really true. Take for example a cross city bus that gets held up in the middle of the route. People near the start see a reliable bus service, people at the other end see an unreliable service. If DB change the timetable to match what people on the opposite side see, then there is reduced capacity. Buses that could run and provide a decent service for the first half are no longer running.

Besides which, most of the buses run though the city centre and get badly held up there. No matter what way you timetable it, they'll always clog up and end up bunched together for the other half of the route.

vandermeyde

There are plans in train to provide GPS units to the entire DB fleet...I think it'll take about 12-18 months to roll out in its entirety...

This has been delayed for the last 2-3 years by the DOT to the best of my knowledge...

Should make a huge difference to passengers as regards bus times etc..

shltter

Bambi wrote:

Better correct CIE's accountants too then, they've gone and given a total for state grants in 2005 for 576 million

http://www.cie.ie/about_us/pdf/CIE_05_no_pics.pdf

There is a difference between state aid and subvention or PSO

For example is the money eircom receive for providing phones to social welfare customers state aid or is it a payment by the government for a service provided by a company.

Money invested by the Government in the Rail Infrastructure for example is not state aid anymore than building the port tunnel is state aid for the Transport companies that will be using it to access the port.

In this case the company charged will building the infrastructure on behalf of the state is also the company that will operate the trains on that infrastructure.

Those payments would have to be paid to any company providing those services public or private.

shltter

Paulj wrote:

Surely a survey of traffic condition could be performed and this used to design a new timetable system for the Buses. People accept traffic is terrible in dublin, and it is much worse at peak times. Thats fine. What people want is buses to arrive on time. In general this should be possible to achieve. There are always going to be unpredictable occasions where something happens causing the timetable system to break down. But for the other 90% of the time the traffic situation is fairly predictable. People who drive to work every morning and evening use the same route and generally manage to be on time for work; this is because they use their past experience to figure out what time they must leave in the future.

It should also be possible to survey how many people use certain routes at certain times, this should be used to run extra or less buses at certain times depending on demand.

Taking traffic conditions and customer demand into account should allow a reasonably reliable timetable for each stop to be devised. The current situation where we are told the time it leaves the first stop and approximatly how long it takes to get to O'Connell Street is unnacceptable. This ambiguous way of timetabling buses allows drivers and bus operaters to lay the blame completely on factors outside of their control. But generally these factors are predictable so they must take most of the blame. Obviously there are not enough buses to run a high frequency service where a bus comes every 5 minutes so what is needed is to try and make the current service more reliable.

Buses are on time 90%+ of the time that is the point it is the the small percentage of the time that traffic is completely unpredictable that is the problem.

So a journey that takes 50 minutes 90% of the time may on certain occassions take 60, 70, 80 or more minutes.
These occasions are unpredictable although they usually occur at this time of the year and on days when it is raining but you cannot pin point when it is going to happen.
So one possible solution is that you give the bus 80 minutes to do that journey then it will probably run to timetable 99.99% of the time however 90%+ of the time you will have a bus sitting around doing nothing for 30 minutes that is a massive waste of resources by any measure.

Timetables for each stop are only possible if there is a reliable busway provided this is not the case in this city of course you could provide as before a worst case scenario but that would mean that on 90% of days people would sit and wait at each stop for the extra time provided in case the traffic was bad.
Sitting and waiting at stops in mid journey in my experience drives customers mad this can regularly be seen on cross city routes when a bus arrives early for a hand over to the next driver.

spareman

Raekwon wrote:

Some posters might think it is unfair of me to compare Ireland to other countries, but I am merely just trying to highlight the fact that even less economically successful countries have better transport infrastructure/services then we have here. Places like Czech Republic, a place that no doubt conjures up images of crumbling infrastructure from years of communist neglect, yet buses, trains and trams are cheap, clean and reliable! Can we say the same about Dublin?

I take it you havent seen this then?
Reliable czech Republic tram in action.. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/103873/tram_derails/

AlekSmart

Shltter is quite correct.
The entire reasoning behind getting on public transport as a customer is to be brought quickly and comfortably to your destination.

If one looks for example at a3,10,11,or 16 on Parnell Sq which has even 3 minutes of a delay while drivers change over one will see angry passsengers fidgeting and even leaving the bus,often with a passing riposte to the drivers concerned.

These passengers will even be overtaken by the same Bus as they stalk off down to O Connell St but that is not the point...THEY have been inconvienenced !

Any introduction of this pacing oneself nonsense is doomed to failure and is indicative of a lack of any real understanding of the public`s requirements.

It`s also worth remembering that some 30 years ago Dublins Bus Service had a somewhat better arsenal of equipment to facilitate its progress IF it had been developed and improved.

1. The Automatic Vehicle Monitoring system gave Route Controllers a constantly updating reference of EACH buses location (Dublins AVM system was innovative enough to feature on BBC`s Tomorrows World)
2.The Selective Bus Detection system had on-bus transponders fitted which linked in with traffic signal recievers to modify signal phasing to favour the Bus.
3.Route Controllers had individual live feeds from the Corporation Traffic Cameras which at least allowed them the luxury of seeing from a height the developing traffic patterns AND the situations affecting BUS flows in thew centre.
4.Much of the then fleet was Double Doored which had the potential to rapidly decrease Dwell Times at stops.
5.CIE was involved in EU sponsored trialling of the Electronic Purse concept.

Its a valid question to ask why these and other associated innovations were NOT proceeded with as being necesary for the development of the route network.

The abandonment of so many GOOD ideas in favour of retrograde stuff such as Security Screens and New Corporate imaging is one of the central reasons behind my concern at the way the T21 project has begun with a Government REJECTION of one of the review groups central tenets....Having the POWER to influence and guide Central Planning !!

shltter

AlekSmart wrote:

Shltter is quite correct.
The entire reasoning behind getting on public transport as a customer is to be brought quickly and comfortably to your destination.

If one looks for example at a3,10,11,or 16 on Parnell Sq which has even 3 minutes of a delay while drivers change over one will see angry passsengers fidgeting and even leaving the bus,often with a passing riposte to the drivers concerned.

These passengers will even be overtaken by the same Bus as they stalk off down to O Connell St but that is not the point...THEY have been inconvienenced !

Any introduction of this pacing oneself nonsense is doomed to failure and is indicative of a lack of any real understanding of the public`s requirements.

It`s also worth remembering that some 30 years ago Dublins Bus Service had a somewhat better arsenal of equipment to facilitate its progress IF it had been developed and improved.

1. The Automatic Vehicle Monitoring system gave Route Controllers a constantly updating reference of EACH buses location (Dublins AVM system was innovative enough to feature on BBC`s Tomorrows World)
2.The Selective Bus Detection system had on-bus transponders fitted which linked in with traffic signal recievers to modify signal phasing to favour the Bus.
3.Route Controllers had individual live feeds from the Corporation Traffic Cameras which at least allowed them the luxury of seeing from a height the developing traffic patterns AND the situations affecting BUS flows in thew centre.
4.Much of the then fleet was Double Doored which had the potential to rapidly decrease Dwell Times at stops.
5.CIE was involved in EU sponsored trialling of the Electronic Purse concept.

Its a valid question to ask why these and other associated innovations were NOT proceeded with as being necesary for the development of the route network.

The abandonment of so many GOOD ideas in favour of retrograde stuff such as Security Screens and New Corporate imaging is one of the central reasons behind my concern at the way the T21 project has begun with a Government REJECTION of one of the review groups central tenets....Having the POWER to influence and guide Central Planning !!

I agree with most of what you say although the security screens were introduced because we had over 100 drivers at any one time absent due to an assault. The security screen is unfortunately just a symptom of the society we live in.

On the double doors in an ideal world the bus stop parking etc situation would have been tackled and the use of the double doors would have been properly introduced but in over 20 odd years it was not addressed and the double doors only led to confusion. The larger single door is quicker than the smaller front door that was only used 99% of the time. It is not ideal but having a larger front door that is used all the time is better than having the unrealised potential of double doors

spareman

AlekSmart wrote:

Its a valid question to ask why these and other associated innovations were NOT proceeded with as being necesary for the development of the route network.

Its a valid question with a simple answer, No Investment.
The Goverment seem to think it's better to allow private money to fix public problems, instead of funding essential services for the good of the Irish people, when you have to fork out huge somes of money to visit hospital's or have your rubbish collected maybe then they will understand, instead of using tax payer's money to fund these services, the people who run this country seem to think it's better to let some guy get rich screwing the public for basic public services, hospital's, waste, Airlines, telephone service's, energy supplier's, and now buses. Its all roses in the garden now, but in 10/20 years when the big compainies buy up the small ones we are fooked.

Raekwon

spareman wrote:

I take it you havent seen this then?
Reliable czech Republic tram in action.. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/103873/tram_derails/

So what's your point? One freak accident and the Prague tram system is deemed unsafe in your eyes? :rolleyes: Train, tram & bus accidents happen in every country, do you want me to list the bus accidents that have happened in Ireland over the last few years?

spareman

Raekwon wrote:

So what's your point? One freak accident and the Prague tram system is deemed unsafe in your eyes? :rolleyes: Train, tram & bus accidents happen in every country, do you want me to list the bus accidents that have happened in Ireland over the last few years?

Of course freak accidents happen everywhere, In my experiance I didnt find transport sevice's in other parts of Europe that were clean or reliable, and defintly not cheaper, I think its nothing short of a miracle how Irish transport here can provide the service they do with 25% less Goverment funding then the rest of Europe, dont you?

meanpeoplesuck

the 8.20 '145' which starts a couple of minutes up the road from me usually comes around 8.45 which is a real pain, I think it gets stuck in traffic though.

A couple of weeks ago I was waiting for the 145 in stillorgan at the bus stop near bondi, by the crossroads there. They were fixing the bus shelter there so there was a "temporary bus stop" (a wooden sign) which provided no cover and it was absolutely pouring down with rain. Waited over an hour for the bus, by the time it came I'd say there were 10 of us like drowned rats getting on...untill the bus driver sailed by because he was too full! Grrr I need a private taxi

spareman

meanpeoplesuck wrote:

the 8.20 '145' which starts a couple of minutes up the road from me usually comes around 8.45 which is a real pain, I think it gets stuck in traffic though.

A couple of weeks ago I was waiting for the 145 in stillorgan at the bus stop near bondi, by the crossroads there. They were fixing the bus shelter there so there was a "temporary bus stop" (a wooden sign) which provided no cover and it was absolutely pouring down with rain. Waited over an hour for the bus, by the time it came I'd say there were 10 of us like drowned rats getting on...untill the bus driver sailed by because he was too full! Grrr I need a private taxi

Your telling me you waited over an hour for a bus on the stillorgan road and then when it came it was full? this happened at 08.20 on a weekday morning?

Zoney

So, mostly discussion of Dublin Buses here. I'd like to tell you about Bus Éireann's city service in Limerick, specifically the one between the city centre and the University of Limerick (pop. 10,000). The route is served by the usual single-deck BÉ buses; Wright and Mercedes Benz low floor ones. There are no bus lanes; and one of the routes is via Limerick's car park; the Childers Road. For the most of the day, services are timetabled as leaving the city, and UL, every fifteen minutes.

This has surely got to win the award for greatest work of fiction. From the city centre, you stand some chance of a bus leaving at the allocated time. More often than not, even from the city centre, the bus is late or at best, does not depart on the quarter hour, but rather a random interval (when all have boarded, after 5 mins of no-one getting on, etc.).

From the University, the buses pretty much randomly arrive and depart. It is seldom that one will get on a bus which has arrived early, and have the bus wait till the quarter hour. Two buses arriving at once, even at non-peak non-rush hour times is not unusual either.

And now we come to the worst bit. Traffic delays (and in Limerick, these are not that bad compared to Dublin). Nevertheless, enough is said by the fact that BÉ run a set number of buses on the route all day long, and yet there is no variation in timetabling at peak time. So of course, the schedule falls apart *even more* than during the rest of the day. Of course, this is compounded by the fact that *more* buses are needed at the University at rush hour!

The upshot? Even at non-peak times I have waited in excess of 45 minutes on more than one occasion for a bus. I have very frequently waited for 20-30 minutes. Passenger numbers at the UL bus stop frequently build up to levels where people have to cram onto the bus; right up past the white line to just inside the front doors.

The entire business is a nonsense; I am *certain* that there are far fewer people taking the bus than would otherwise, just because the service is so rubbish. It is saying something that buses can be filled, and people rely on the bus service for daily commuting *even with* the prospect of spending an hour and a half of your day waiting for Bus Éireann's shoddy service. It is an absurd situation considering the chronic car park problems UL have due to car use.

I can tell you from friends and relatives using the other city bus services that things are not much better. The Raheen route is supposed to be every 10 minutes; it is possible to wait 40 minutes or more out in Raheen itself at rush hour! Traffic problems are all very well, but they are regular in nature. Having an invariant timetable that does not take account of regular journey times is just lies, propaganda, wasting people's time, and generally kicking people in the teeth.

----
Related issue: Bizarrely Bus Éireann seem to have removed UL from their online journey planner (previously it would erroneously appear as University College Limerick). Looking at the services from Limerick (William Street), there is also no mention of the 308 bus service to the University. What kind of lunacy is this?

europerson

I waited on Dame Street/College Green on Monday night for a 123 bus. There ought to have been three in the time I waited, according to the timetable. I waited and waited, but, by then, it was after midnight. I had to get a taxi, which cost 600% of the bus fare.

John R

europerson wrote:

I waited on Dame Street/College Green on Monday night for a 123 bus. There ought to have been three in the time I waited, according to the timetable. I waited and waited, but, by then, it was after midnight. I had to get a taxi, which cost 600% of the bus fare.

The last through buses are at 23.00 from Drimnagh and 23.15 from Marino. I'd be surprised if either took more than 15 mns to get to the city centre at that hour so 23.15 would be the last Northbound and 23.25 the last southbound departure.

spareman

europerson wrote:

I waited on Dame Street/College Green on Monday night for a 123 bus. There ought to have been three in the time I waited, according to the timetable. I waited and waited, but, by then, it was after midnight. I had to get a taxi, which cost 600% of the bus fare.

If you were travelling northbound you say 3 should have come, 22.30, 22.45 and 23.00 from drimnagh, So to catch one of the last 3 you were at the stop at 22.45 till after midnight you say?
If you were travelling southbound last 3 are 22.45, 23.00, and 23.15 from marino, so you were waiting from 23.00ish till after midnight?
Did you contact Dublin bus at all to find out why the last 3 buses didnt run?
Im sorry but I just cant believe that the last 3 buses on a route didn't run, maybe one or possible 2 but there's no way the last 3 didn't run.
Maybe you arrived at the stop at 23.40, and didnt bother to check the timetable, and then came on here complaining?
See people like you do not help the situation what so ever, If your not at the stop on time, or at the wrong stop, or you didnt bother to put your hand out for the bus as it drove by, thats not Dublin buses fault or the driver's fault, IT'S YOURS.

europerson

spareman wrote:

If you were travelling northbound you say 3 should have come, 22.30, 22.45 and 23.00 from drimnagh, So to catch one of the last 3 you were at the stop at 22.45 till after midnight you say?

I arrived at the College Green stop at c.2250. I've never been on the bus from Drimnagh to College Green, but I thought it would take longer than fifteen minutes. That's besides the point, anyway, as there ought to have been buses.

Did you contact Dublin bus at all to find out why the last 3 buses didnt run?

No, I didn't. Perhaps I ought to have.

Im sorry but I just cant believe that the last 3 buses on a route didn't run, maybe one or possible 2 but there's no way the last 3 didn't run.

I'd think the same way.

Maybe you arrived at the stop at 23.40, and didnt bother to check the timetable, and then came on here complaining?

Eh, no. I arrived, as I said, at 2250.

See people like you do not help the situation what so ever, If your not at the stop on time, or at the wrong stop, or you didnt bother to put your hand out for the bus as it drove by, thats not Dublin buses fault or the driver's fault, IT'S YOURS.

I was at the right stop on time. There were no buses, at which to put out my hand. I resent your change of tone, as if I were someone who has not given loyal and good business to Dublin Bus, and as if I were someone, who did not understand how the Dublin Bus system works. I'm very sympathetic to the cause/plight of bus drivers. However, on this occasion, the service fell below the levels I would have expected, so I made a simple post in this thread. That's all. I'm not even saying that it was a driver's fault or the drivers' fault.

shltter

europerson wrote:

I arrived at the College Green stop at c.2250. I've never been on the bus from Drimnagh to College Green, but I thought it would take longer than fifteen minutes. That's besides the point, anyway, as there ought to have been buses.


No, I didn't. Perhaps I ought to have.


I'd think the same way.


Eh, no. I arrived, as I said, at 2250.


I was at the right stop on time. There were no buses, at which to put out my hand. I resent your change of tone, as if I were someone who has not given loyal and good business to Dublin Bus, and as if I were someone, who did not understand how the Dublin Bus system works. I'm very sympathetic to the cause/plight of bus drivers. However, on this occasion, the service fell below the levels I would have expected, so I made a simple post in this thread. That's all. I'm not even saying that it was a driver's fault or the drivers' fault.

The best thing to do is ring Summerhill and ask them what happened and see what they say.
I am not saying you are wrong as to what time you arrived at the stop but I have often pulled up at a stop to be greeted by the I'm waiting here over hour despite the fact that I have seen the bus 20 minutes in front of me working in when i was working out. And that there was no one at the stop when I passed it going the other way 15 minutes ago.
People tend to add 30 to 40 minutes to the lenght of time they were waiting.

But as I say only Summerhill can answer what happened it could be a 101 things.
Cross city routes tend to be held in O Connell st for a departure time after 11pm and the last one leaves O Connell st at 23:30 working North and South

Not sure if that is the way it is on the 123s but if it is then there would have been alot of people waiting in O Connell st if the last 3 buses did not operate.

One possibility is that the bus was late arriving in Drimnagh for whatever reason(roadworks breakdown accident) and it was brought into town out of service to ensure the 23:30 to Marino was covered as that would be the busiest part of the route I would imagine at that time.

markpb

It would seem that the rollout of the RTIS displays at bus stops will solve a lot of problems. Does anyone know how that's going, I know the radio and ticket machines are part of it but what's next?

Zoney

Limerick city centre mad busy with shoppers this evening (I dare not mention the C word in mid-November). Bus Éireann attempt to load a mob onto one of their hopelessly inadequate single-deck buses (quite dangerous as the bus was pulling alongside people who were pushing each other to the kerb-edge). Needless to say, a bunch of people were left to wait for the next bus to Castletroy, probably arriving in another hour's time.

This kind of nonsense just isn't good enough. There are some Irish traditions we need to dispense. Absurdly poor public transport is one of them.

John R

markpb wrote:

It would seem that the rollout of the RTIS displays at bus stops will solve a lot of problems. Does anyone know how that's going, I know the radio and ticket machines are part of it but what's next?

The real time monitoring including bus stop display, on-board display, SMS and internet tracking went out to tender with a May 2006 deadline.

http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/search/search_show.aspx?ID=APR057128

Not sure what has happened with it since then.

spareman

europerson wrote:

I was at the right stop on time. There were no buses, at which to put out my hand. I resent your change of tone, as if I were someone who has not given loyal and good business to Dublin Bus, and as if I were someone, who did not understand how the Dublin Bus system works. I'm very sympathetic to the cause/plight of bus drivers. However, on this occasion, the service fell below the levels I would have expected, so I made a simple post in this thread. That's all. I'm not even saying that it was a driver's fault or the drivers' fault.

Sorry about that I thaught you were one of the people shltter talked about in his post, I meet lot's of these people daily and from your post I put you in that category, I cant understand how the last 3 buses didnt show, I hope you ring them as Id love to hear what they say, Again Im sorry for doubting you, but I just cant get my head around it, In my garage the last bus is the most important to have operating. please let me know what they say if you ring.