Manchester United Transfer Rumours/Discussion 2006 :)

PHB

Scholes/Beckham/Butt/Neville didn't make it into the first team by repeatedly being given chances in 'easy' premiership games.

Yes they did. They played, they played somewhat poorly, Cantona dragged them through, until they emerged.

Jones will play, he is good enough, and Rooney and Ronaldo will drag us through.

If I had a flat out choice next year of Fergie letting Jones, Evans, Gibson, Rossi, Martins develop in the first team, or us pushing Chelsea as hard as we can in the league, I'd pick the former, because in the long run, it's all we have.

You seem to think the new premiership is all about consistancy, which it is, but no more so than before. Chelsea have incredible amounts of money, and an incredible squad. United can't be like-for-like with CHelsea.
United can only ever match that with another golden generation.
Jones, Rossi, Evans, Gibson, Martins, Rincon, Pique are that golden generation if we give them the chance.

Unearthly

PHB wrote:

Yes they did. They played, they played somewhat poorly, Cantona dragged them through, until they emerged.

Jones will play, he is good enough, and Rooney and Ronaldo will drag us through.

If I had a flat out choice next year of Fergie letting Jones, Evans, Gibson, Rossi, Martins develop in the first team, or us pushing Chelsea as hard as we can in the league, I'd pick the former, because in the long run, it's all we have.

You seem to think the new premiership is all about consistancy, which it is, but no more so than before. Chelsea have incredible amounts of money, and an incredible squad. United can't be like-for-like with CHelsea.
United can only ever match that with another golden generation.
Jones, Rossi, Evans, Gibson, Martins, Rincon, Pique are that golden generation if we give them the chance.

As much as I like to believe those younger players will be the new golden generation, I can't help but look at the likes of Beckham, scholes etc emerging at the same time as a freak. Lets also remember that football was far different then. Man Utd had no real challenger, not in the Chelsea mould anyway. The amount of points needed to win the league was about 75 points. Nowadays you need 90+!

There was more time for letting youngsters have a go, and still put in a credible challenge. Nowadays they would be against some of the best players in the world, and before they know it, they would be 20 odd points behind Chelsea and everyone is screaming panick. It wouldn't be fair on them as people will get impatient and turn against Fergie, as sad as that sounds.

Even Man Utd in their prime would be miles behind Chelsea apart from 1 season(99/00). Simple fact is Chelsea have raised the bar and Man Utd don't have the resources to match them financially or football ability

Giruilla

PHB wrote:

You seem to think the new premiership is all about consistancy, which it is, but no more so than before. Chelsea have incredible amounts of money, and an incredible squad. United can't be like-for-like with CHelsea.

Jones, Rossi, Evans, Gibson, Martins, Rincon, Pique are that golden generation if we give them the chance.

What do you mean united can't be like-for-like with Chelsea? If you mean they can't have world class players in every position like Chelsea do then of course you're right. United don't have the money to do that. If you mean United can't play as well as Chelsea do in every match then you're wrong. United have spent good money on developing a strong first team which should be given as much a chance as possible to develop into a unit, which plays week in week out, who understand each others football. This is what consistency in a football team is about. United have suffered again and again at the hands of youth team players being experimented with and given chances in premiership games. There is no reason that united shouldn't take the title this season.
Youth team players should be played IF they are good enough, and deserve a first team start. If any member of the 1st team is underperforming or plays a bad match, they should be dropped and let a youth team player play. Playing in a big match on their own, with a complete line-up of first team players will develop a youngster far better than messing about in a match against Reading, with a team of other youngsters, and only one or two solid first team members like Giggs or Ferdinand who will be expected to 'guide' them through. Its matches like these which cost us points and imo do nothing major in the development of youngsters. If they do need regular football to devlop they should be put on loan to lower end teams, like Richardson did with West Brom.

As for who you say the Golden Generation could be, I honestly don't see Rossi as ever fully establishing himself as a 1st team player at United. He doesn't have the build for the type of striker which ferguson will try to play him as, and of what I've seen of him he's not ruthless enough in front of goal.
I do think jones has potential but not enough to jeapardise another season of Uniteds. Also Martins has impressed me as I'm sure he has everyone else. I like Evans too but there isn't a lot of room for him to push into in the squad.

Now is the time for United to make a push for the title, the fans have been waiting to long for Ferguson to develop a regular first team which now i think he has, in the form,

.......................VDS
.....Neville....Ferdinand.....Brown......Heinze
...........Carrick.......Scholes.........
....Ronaldo.....Rooney.......Giggs......
...................Saha...............

Subs and Squad Rotation (if nessecary) would involve:
O'Shea, Vidic, Evra, Solksjaer, Smith(please let him recover to full fitness, what a player), Senna( if he signs), Park, and Richardson could figure in Giggs position a lot next season.

Pighead

Hmmmm, Pighead reckons Owen Hargreaves could be the next signing for United. Seems confident of joining one of the "top teams" in the premiership.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4792681.stm

county

Pighead wrote:

Hmmmm, Pighead reckons Owen Hargreaves could be the next signing for United. Seems confident of joining one of the "top teams" in the premiership.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4792681.stm

i heard this rumour a week ago and i quite like the idea,he was the only english player in the WC that got stuck in and gave 100%

FatherTed

What I find strange about the whole transfer situation is that United havent spent any money. Aha you say, what about Carrick? Well, United did sell Ruud and got money for Obi Mikel so that cancels out the carrick deal. I have a feeling another big money (bigger than Senna) will be done before the end of the month.

sprinkles

FatherTed wrote:

What I find strange about the whole transfer situation is that United havent spent any money. Aha you say, what about Carrick? Well, United did sell Ruud and got money for Obi Mikel so that cancels out the carrick deal. I have a feeling another big money (bigger than Senna) will be done before the end of the month.

I'd like to think you're right.

bucks73

Unearthly wrote:

Even Man Utd in their prime would be miles behind Chelsea apart from 1 season(99/00). Simple fact is Chelsea have raised the bar and Man Utd don't have the resources to match them financially or football ability

Thats utter rubbish. Chelsea havent even looked like winning the Champions League and to say they are miles better than the treble winning team is stupid.

I have said before on this thread and another one that its up to Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs to take points off Chelsea this season if anyone is going to compete with them. Only United from the next four sides took any points off Chelsea last season. Not one of the other three could even get a home point and Liverpool were humiliated at Anfield. Not much use beating them in Charity Shields and FA Cups if you are handing them 6 points in the league.

How Arsenal and Liverpool can call themselves title contenders is beyond me with that record. Its time they stood up to be counted. IMO the wont and it will be left to United to slug it out with them and my fear for United is that we wont score enough goals with. Oh to have a Choccy or Coley or Ruud.

Unearthly

It's not rubbish. Man Utd finished with 79 points in the treble season, and won the league. If Chelsea were around that season with the squad they have now, It would of been a whole new ball game.

To say Chelsea have never looked liked winning the champions league is pure ignorance. They reached the semi finals 2 years in a row, and without a combination of Ranieri diabolical tactical decisions and a goal that shouldn't of been for Luis Garcia, they could of well reached the final 2 years in a row.

Nalz

Unearthly wrote:

It's not rubbish. Man Utd finished with 79 points in the treble season, and won the league. If Chelsea were around that season with the squad they have now, It would of been a whole new ball game.

Very hard (and pointless) to compare Chelsea to Uniteds 1999 team. You do have to rememeber that it was 7 years ago, that United were unbeaten in two competitions, played Barcelona, juve, Inter and Brondby twice....and Bayern 3 times and remained undefeated. The lost only 3 times in the league.
The fact of the matter is United acheived the treble and bet everyone in their path towards that goal in all competitions bar one(The league cup) where they played an eleven that consisted mainly of reserve players.

RedorDead

Giruilla wrote:

You are right in that United are nothing without they're youth system. United and united fans have to stop living off past glories. Chelsea have brought football to a new level .....

More like chelsea have bought football to a new level;)

RedorDead

Giruilla wrote:

What do you mean united can't be like-for-like with Chelsea? If you mean they can't have world class players in every position like Chelsea do then of course you're right. United don't have the money to do that. If you mean United can't play as well as Chelsea do in every match then you're wrong. United have spent good money on developing a strong first team which should be given as much a chance as possible to develop into a unit, which plays week in week out, who understand each others football. This is what consistency in a football team is about. United have suffered again and again at the hands of youth team players being experimented with and given chances in premiership games. There is no reason that united shouldn't take the title this season.
Youth team players should be played IF they are good enough, and deserve a first team start. If any member of the 1st team is underperforming or plays a bad match, they should be dropped and let a youth team player play. Playing in a big match on their own, with a complete line-up of first team players will develop a youngster far better than messing about in a match against Reading, with a team of other youngsters, and only one or two solid first team members like Giggs or Ferdinand who will be expected to 'guide' them through. Its matches like these which cost us points and imo do nothing major in the development of youngsters. If they do need regular football to devlop they should be put on loan to lower end teams, like Richardson did with West Brom.

As for who you say the Golden Generation could be, I honestly don't see Rossi as ever fully establishing himself as a 1st team player at United. He doesn't have the build for the type of striker which ferguson will try to play him as, and of what I've seen of him he's not ruthless enough in front of goal.
I do think jones has potential but not enough to jeapardise another season of Uniteds. Also Martins has impressed me as I'm sure he has everyone else. I like Evans too but there isn't a lot of room for him to push into in the squad.

Now is the time for United to make a push for the title, the fans have been waiting to long for Ferguson to develop a regular first team which now i think he has, in the form,

.......................VDS
.....Neville....Ferdinand.....Brown......Heinze
...........Carrick.......Scholes.........
....Ronaldo.....Rooney.......Giggs......
...................Saha...............

Subs and Squad Rotation (if nessecary) would involve:
O'Shea, Vidic, Evra, Solksjaer, Smith(please let him recover to full fitness, what a player), Senna( if he signs), Park, and Richardson could figure in Giggs position a lot next season.

Nice team I would have Vidic in instead of Wes. Also Smith is not a good player. He is passionate and not a whole lot else.

Nalz

Smith is a good player, he'll prove it if he gets a chance. a bit of passion is what we need anyway....along with a bit of class in midfield, which Im prayin Fergie is working on

PHB

It's not rubbish. Man Utd finished with 79 points in the treble season, and won the league. If Chelsea were around that season with the squad they have now, It would of been a whole new ball game.

The teams don't play in a vacuum. Nobody will ever beat Chelsea if they get 90 points, what United have to do is stay with them as long as possible, and then they will win the league on a reasonable points level. Chelsea have gotten massive points cause everybody rolled over to them and United/Liverpool/Arsenal never gained much on them.

United have suffered again and again at the hands of youth team players being experimented with and given chances in premiership games.

Maybe so, but it's also the basis for everything we have ever won

Attractive Nun

Good point made earlier, Ruud + Mikel = £12m + £11m. Less £16m for Carrick and we've still got a profit of £7m! Presumably, too, Ruud's wages would have higher than Carrick's, and indeed Howard's were probably higher than Kuschak's. Park and Silvestre's new deals would not, I'd expect, alter their wages much, and with the 69,000 season tickets sold, an expanded Old Trafford and a record-breaking sponsership deal with AIG, we should be rolling in it. Whatever about the Glazers, surely there's room for a big signing in there somewhere, despite the glaringly approximative nature of my calculations...

hawker27

chelsea with all there billions.match what fergie did in 99 with limited money.
we did,nt need billions or even millions in the chelsea mould to pull off one of the greatest achievements in club football the treble.nuff said.

Attractive Nun

hawker27 wrote:

chelsea with all there billions.match what fergie did in 99 with limited money.
we did,nt need billions or even millions in the chelsea mould to pull off one of the greatest achievements in club football the treble.nuff said.

But we did need the one and the only Ronny Johnsen, who's worth more than any 'money'.

s8n

Not forgetting Henning Berg and David may

Unearthly

Trilla wrote:

Very hard (and pointless) to compare Chelsea to Uniteds 1999 team. You do have to rememeber that it was 7 years ago, that United were unbeaten in two competitions, played Barcelona, juve, Inter and Brondby twice....and Bayern 3 times and remained undefeated. The lost only 3 times in the league.
The fact of the matter is United acheived the treble and bet everyone in their path towards that goal in all competitions bar one(The league cup) where they played an eleven that consisted mainly of reserve players.

First of all I brought up the Chelsea debate because someone made the point that Man Utd should try out the young ones of the team cause of the success in the past they had with it. I was saying that is not practical nor feasible anymore cause of the increased competition since then, and pressure Ferguson is under. So I agree football has changed, the champions have got more ruthless in terms of getting points.

I'm a Man Utd fan and realise the treble is a far greater achievement than anything Chelsea have done. Forget about the other comps for a moment though, the fact of the matter is this Chelsea side HAVE raised the bar as far as points is concerned. They grind out scrappy 1-0 wins when maybe other great teams in the past would of drawn.

It's all well and good to say Man Utd/Arsenal/Liverpool should beat them but they can't except maybe on the odd occasion. If Man Utd were to try out the likes of Rossi and Jones, who I am sure will be good pros, expect a few mistakes and points lost because of the lack of experience. In a season that MANY people around Old Trafford are saying will make or break Fergie, can he afford to take risks? Man Utd fans have been getting fed up of him for a few seasons now so he'd be under a huge amount of criticism if Chelsea run away with the title again, and would probably be the end of him.

So, experienced proven players, or youth?

bucks73

I dont go for that argument. When United were unbeatable in 99/00/01 people used to say that the league was poor. Now when Chelsea do the same thing and when Arsenal went however many games unbeaten they are made out to be fantastic teams. You can only beat what is put in front of you and if Chelsea come anywhere near to what United achieved in the 90s then fair play. Cant see it happening myself though.

As for playing the youngsters I said already the league should take priority and the strongest team should always be played. If he wants to try out the younger players then use the cups or else bring them on if the game is won. Even play them in the CL. Im sure David Gill wants a decent run in that but Id swap an early exit for a league title.

Unearthly

I never said the league was poor then, although I'd say the quality has increased since the days Beckham and Scholes were first introduced.

I did mention that the 99/00 season they were untouchable and a case could easily be made for the following season when they took their foot off the gas and lost their 3 last games after they raped the league

I get the impression you think I am trying to dismiss Man Utds achievements, if that was the case I'd be an idiot

Giruilla

Unearthly wrote:

So, experienced proven players, or youth?

tbh I don't think the majority of the first team at united is even experienced. Yeah Giggs/Scholes/Neville/Solksjaer/VDS are. but the rest of the team are still relatively young. imo they haven't been given enough of a chance to gel as solid team and perform. Fergie has tinkered with the team for too long now. Last season was unlucky for utd because of so many injuries. But i think now is the time to allow the big names like Rooney, Saha, Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Carrick, to play regularly together, grind out results, and show what they're worth.
On another note, i can't beleive Silvestre's contract has been renewed!:eek:
He is a solid enough defender at times, but he makes far too many and costly mistakes. His positioning is horrendous most of the time. The big problem with him for me is when he has the ball at his feet. he has a huge tendency to hoof the ball downfield to the heads of the strikers. He is afraid to calmly knock the ball around his own half, like Ferdinand is so good at doing. Rarely does he link up well with the centre mids, instead choosing to do long balls. For me Brown is an obvious choice instead of him, who i feel is hugely underrated. he has excellent ball control and is a great defender. Every time he comes in he does a perfect job. i'd even play O'shea ahead of him at cenre back. Also having bought Vidic I'd presume Vidic was favourite ahead of Silvestre, and theres now way he should get played ahead of Heinze at left back. Whats Fergusons thinking in keeping him?

BKtje

Cover for injuries and/or he thinks hes a good player (i think hes decent). Even if he thought he was crap, if he signs a new contract than he cant head off somewhere for free. May get a few quid for him in a year if he decides to sell rather than just let a multi million pount asset wander off into the cold.

bucks73

Unearthly wrote:

I never said the league was poor then, although I'd say the quality has increased since the days Beckham and Scholes were first introduced.

I did mention that the 99/00 season they were untouchable and a case could easily be made for the following season when they took their foot off the gas and lost their 3 last games after they raped the league

I get the impression you think I am trying to dismiss Man Utds achievements, if that was the case I'd be an idiot

No, no Im not having a go at you personally its just I hate the way Chelsea have been put up on mantle as this magnificent team when they have only won 2 leagues and a league cup so far. Yes that in itself is an excellent achievement but IMO they are the least attractive team to watch out of last seasons top 5 and as I said they have been very unimpressive in the CL after all their big spending.

Again IMO I dont think they are actually as good as a lot of people think. Its just that when you win 21 out of 24 points versus United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs you are already well on your way to winning the league. Its time the others put it up to them. They lost 5 games last season (2 after league was won) all away from home. If the others in the top five can beat them at home this season it would make a huge difference. Anyone who loses 5 or 6 games wont be running away with any league.

Giruilla

Hopefully next season the middle of league teams too will put up a good battle against them too. I felt a lot of teams rolled over against them but stepped it up when they played United and Arsenal who they know are beatable. I remember last season Bolton went 1-0 against chelsea after around 10 mins, then just completely gave up, losin something like 3-1 or 4-1, it was sick watching it. United definitely don't have it in them to win as many games as Chelsea won last season, but you know they'll play the Chelsea fixture like its a cup final. Arsenal, liverpool, newcastle, Spurs, need to do it as well.

Unearthly

It's going to be interesting to see how they do this season and dare I say it, they might be having a bit of injury crisis, Essien broke his wrist now, and fitness apparently a problem...

I said that last season though and they then turned around and won their first 9 league games.

As for them being a "magnificant" team. I'd have to say yes, teams very rarely win back to back trophies, and they did it with relative ease. As for their style of play, completely agree, gimme Man Utd or Arsenal to watch anyday over them, but sadly they have found an incredibly effective way of winning most of their games playing dull football.

I'm about to say something that must of been mentioned 400 times already in this topic, but anyway, if Man Utd sign another midfielder, and if Saha and Rooney stay fit(A big if), then we'll be there, regardless of how well Chelsea do. This team has alot of potential

sprinkles

bucks73 wrote:

No, no Im not having a go at you personally its just I hate the way Chelsea have been put up on mantle as this magnificent team when they have only won 2 leagues and a league cup so far. Yes that in itself is an excellent achievement but IMO they are the least attractive team to watch out of last seasons top 5 and as I said they have been very unimpressive in the CL after all their big spending.

Again IMO I dont think they are actually as good as a lot of people think. Its just that when you win 21 out of 24 points versus United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs you are already well on your way to winning the league. Its time the others put it up to them. They lost 5 games last season (2 after league was won) all away from home. If the others in the top five can beat them at home this season it would make a huge difference. Anyone who loses 5 or 6 games wont be running away with any league.

IMO the arsenal team that broke the unbeaten record were equal to the treble winning united team. Chelsea don't come close to matching this. Their style of play doesn't make you want to watch them. I still look forward to seeing the arsenal highlights on a sat night (even if I am hoping they lose).

And is that not what a great team is judged on. They are there to entertain and win trophies, not just win trophies. Remember the dutch "total football" team? They are remembered for being a great team despite the dutch failing to win. Chelsea, if they continue their dominance will go down as a great team but for entertainment value they are way down the league

Unearthly

It's winning trophies. Ask an Arsenal fan, would they of wanted to be in Chelseas or Arsenals position last year if the style of play was changed around. I doubt many would stick to nice on the eye football.

It's a trap that teams fall into, including Arsenal and Brazil and it's cost them trophies in the past being too attacking and abandoning other crucial aspects of the game.

herbieflowers

Would you agree then that football has changed drastically in terms of it's no longer the best technically proficient team who wins consistently but more the robotic type teams who grind out results week after week?

Headshot

sprinkles wrote:

IMO . I still look forward to seeing the arsenal highlights on a sat night (even if I am hoping they lose).

you have to give it to Arsenal they play the game as should it be be played

lovely team to watch


can stand watching chelsea play [good if you want to go to sleep early]

Sizzler

No sign of any signings or decent rumours this week whats going on ??

After the Adriano story I was expecting to read about us going after Samuel Eto this week :rolleyes:

evad_lhorg

yea they said there would be another signing or two this week. not happy

evad_lhorg

Rooney and Scholes both get bullshít 3 game bans!

theyll miss the 2nd 3rd and 4th games.

_blank_

evad_lhorg wrote:

yea they said there would be another signing or two this week. not happy

It's only Tuesday ffs.

Unearthly

Wayne Rooney and Paul Scholes banned for 3 games each

Breaking news on SSN

What a load of bollocks that is

evad_lhorg

BAM two posts higher!

Unearthly

bah feck off :mad:

herbieflowers

bit annoying really...it was only a friendly ffs!

Sizzler

Well when it was in the sun this morning that Rooney was going to get off scott free he was bound to get shafted :mad:

The FA usually do the opposite of whats expected. The Sun are anti Rooney anyway....unless hes in the english shirt :mad:

LostinBlanch

sprinkles wrote:

IMO the arsenal team that broke the unbeaten record were equal to the treble winning united team.

Eh I'm going to disagree with you here. In that season Arsenal lost 6 games (4 in the CL, once to us in the cup , and once in the league cup).

We remained genuinely unbeaten from Boxing day 98 (I think, it was Boro away which we lost) till we lost to Chelsea in the 99 / 00 season. 44 games unbeaten in all competitions.

Aresenal were far from "invincible" that season. They just went on a good run in the league :rolleyes:

solskjaer20

Any Rooney'll miss the first game as well probably.

If the post hadn't of been delayed, then at least he wouldn't have missed an extra game.

gracehopper

A 3 game ban for Rooney is a bloody disgrace. Scholes deserved to be sent off but these cards shouldnt have counted either way. FFS what a joke!

TheMonster

gracehopper wrote:

A 3 game ban for Rooney is a bloody disgrace. Scholes deserved to be sent off but these cards shouldnt have counted either way. FFS what a joke!

Typical FA double standards :mad:

jobonar

the Rooney ban i did not expect!!!! he didn't deserve to be sent off for what happened... if you look at the replay, as he runs he never takes his eyes off the ball once so how can it be seen as being intentional??! its such BS! sh1t like that happens in football!

kinda expected the Scholes suspension tbh but in saying that i dont think red cards from friendlies should carry on into the league!

absolute joke!

Paul Tergat

SSN (through Nick Collins, the chief football correspondant) have just reported that Owen Hargreaves has said he is considering an offer from Man Utd.

He said all the usual stuff about Keane replacement and Hargreaves looking to make the next move on his career....would it be a good signing?

revileandy

Hargeaves could be good, played well towards the end of the world cup. I'd prefer Gravesen myself, he's available for only £2 million

jobonar

Hargreaves and Carrick together? they'd know each other which would be a plus... dunno if he'd be good signing! he had a good world cup but i haven't seen much of him playing for Bayern! he's coming into his best years now so maybe it might not be a bad idea!!

any idea of the fee? if its cheap enuf we could still get Senna... wouldnt be too bad to start the season with i suppose!

jobonar

revileandy wrote:

Hargeaves could be good, played well towards the end of the world cup. I'd prefer Gravesen myself, he's available for only £2 million

i dont think Gravesen would be a good signing! he never really impressed me and he's getting on in years now! Senna would be a better option than him!

Giruilla

I wouldn't fancy graveson myself. Hargreaves would be a great buy I think. He is a very energetic player, end-to-end style which Utd really need. Also i can imagine him linking up really well with Carrick, could be perfect. Def prefer him than Senna, he's younger too. What i don't get is where Scholes is going to figure when a new CM comes in. Or is the idea for regular squad rotation with Senna/Hargreaves, Scholes,Carrick? surely Utd will be playing 4-4-2 next season after realising Rooney is hopeless at playing the lone striker!

Vokes

Senna and Gravesen are the same age.

Hargreaves would be a good buy for ManU - he has best years ahead of him. But a good WC may have inflated his price.