Manchester United Transfer Rumours/Discussion 2006 :)

sprinkles

Unbelievable:

Football365.com wrote:

However, Gill revealed that as late as last week, United had the chance to snap up Mascherano on a short-term deal.

He said: "We were never interested in Tevez. Mascherano, we were offered him.

"We watched him throughout last season and he played at the World Cup, clearly. We were offered him at the start of the summer transfer window for a significant sum.

"The manager and his staff did not want to pursue that. We were also offered him towards the back end of last week in a loan-type deal for a year, and again we were not interested in that.

"From Manchester United's perspective, Tevez was never on the shopping list. Mascherano we watched closely and very carefully and the experts on that area in our club determined that we did not want to go for him."

link


Uniteds transfer policy is a complete mystery to me. We need a DM, one of the hottest midfield prospects is offered to us, someone we have been tracking for some time and we turn it down. I'm very quickly losing confidence in the current setup at united.

Nalz

so it was Senna and Owen Hargreaves the only so called targets?

sprinkles

Trilla wrote:

so it was Senna and Owen Hargreaves the only so called targets?

Looks like it. I'm still amazed that Gill and Fergie were happy not to take Mascherano on loan at least. Where's the harm in that. If there is any sense in it I can't find it. And then leaving the Senna deal fall on it's face while making the club look ridiculous in the process by stringing a player along and unsettling a club. The dealings this summer have highlighted the ineptness of united in the transfer market

evad_lhorg

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote:

i was hoping to get the new black united shirt today with a torres or macherano on the back

gettin a player on the back is so a thing to do when youre 12

also what NEW black jersey? there is a new white one alright but I havnt seen a black one anywhere.

The Muppet

sprinkles wrote:

Looks like it. I'm still amazed that Gill and Fergie were happy not to take Mascherano on loan at least. Where's the harm in that. If there is any sense in it I can't find it.

The sense is that the club would be leaving themselves open to ransom at the end of the season should he prove to be successful. If he was unsucessful it would be a wasted excercise so either way it was of no long term benefit to United.

Apparently he was offered on loan to a number of clubs including but West Ham were the only team that would agree to MSI terms. IMO United were right not get involved in such a deal.

Sizzler

sprinkles wrote:

Unbelievable:



link


Uniteds transfer policy is a complete mystery to me. We need a DM, one of the hottest midfield prospects is offered to us, someone we have been tracking for some time and we turn it down. I'm very quickly losing confidence in the current setup at united.

Mascherano didnt look much of a DM this afternoon against Brassiiiiiil :eek:

Tevez pretty tame also.

Lets see how they settle into the EPL before we start crying.

evad_lhorg

well today was a bit of a nothing match. Robinho being the only player who was amazing.

Headshot

I wasnt impressed with Tevez or Mascherano today, but its too early to judge yet

Argentina havent played together since the world cup so the 2 players would be out of sort

its going to be very interesting this season

Mascherano isnt the greatest passer from what i saw today

Man united could have done a good thing and not buying theses players ,but not getting them on loan is an utter disgrace
whats the harm

sprinkles

In fairness Mascherano showed his ability during the world cup and I agree it's early days to be judging him yet but that was a friendly, and he can hardly be judged on that. And.... if United were tracking him for some time that must indicate that the lad is of some sort of quality.

I take your point Muppet about it not being in the long term interest of United if we took him on loan but what about the short term interest. If he fails, we pay his wages for a year and then he's gone. If he's a sucess we may lose him due to a ridiculous price tag but we got a good year out of him, when we needed him and we then have another chance at signing another overpriced english midfielder.

GuanYin

Agree with the muppet, don't see the point in investing time and one in a midfielder that may up and leave without any say by united.

Thy would have been better off investing the money in youth or a log term player.

sprinkles

psi wrote:

Agree with the muppet, don't see the point in investing time and one in a midfielder that may up and leave without any say by united.

Thy would have been better off investing the money in youth or a log term player.

The only money you'd invest in taking him on loan is his wages. I really can't see a negative point to a loan deal for him.

GuanYin

sprinkles wrote:

The only money you'd invest in taking him on loan is his wages. I really can't see a negative point to a loan deal for him.

Erm you invest in wages, bonuses and then incidentals of having a player at the club and then in a non monetary sense you invest time in coaching and training.

A club the stature of United does not need to loan a player it does not intend to buy (or at least does not have the option of buying).

If United loans a player and he leaves, how much better off does it leave united next season? United should be looking to bring in either an exceptional midfielder or a very promising young talent that theyc an groom over the next few years and will eventually lead to a more settled team in a stronger squad position next year.

Loaning a player that you most likely will lose is not the way to build a squad.

herbieflowers

psi wrote:

Erm you invest in wages, bonuses and then incidentals of having a player at the club and then in a non monetary sense you invest time in coaching and training.

A club the stature of United does not need to loan a player it does not intend to buy (or at least does not have the option of buying).

If United loans a player and he leaves, how much better off does it leave united next season? United should be looking to bring in either an exceptional midfielder or a very promising young talent that theyc an groom over the next few years and will eventually lead to a more settled team in a stronger squad position next year.

Loaning a player that you most likely will lose is not the way to build a squad.

With most loan deals now, however, the club takig the player on loan has the option of signing him on a premannet basis once the loan deal finishes. I thinks that's what sprinkles was getting at...get Mascherano on loan for the season, if he's decent, sign him, if he's tripe, let him go (with no major expense incurred)

sprinkles

psi wrote:

Erm you invest in wages, bonuses and then incidentals of having a player at the club and then in a non monetary sense you invest time in coaching and training.

A club the stature of United does not need to loan a player it does not intend to buy (or at least does not have the option of buying).

If United loans a player and he leaves, how much better off does it leave united next season? United should be looking to bring in either an exceptional midfielder or a very promising young talent that theyc an groom over the next few years and will eventually lead to a more settled team in a stronger squad position next year.

Loaning a player that you most likely will lose is not the way to build a squad.

Are you honestly saying that a loan deal for one of the highest rated young stars would be a bad idea. I mentioned his wages, on top of this I can't see any other costs. You mentioned bonuses, surely if he deserves a bonus then the team is doing well and he's worth his bonus, and the monetary value of coaching etc is proposterous. No extra time is required from the coaches. In fact we are several players less than last year, they coaches hands will be lightened.

As regards where it leaves united next season, as I've already said, if we don't end up signing him after the loan then we can go back to looking for the overpriced English "star" we so desperately crave. It leaves us in no worse position than we are in now, except we would have had a decent midfield for a season.

And as regards building a squad, firstly he is clearly a player united were interested in, he plays in a position that we need cover for at the very least and it begs the question: is not signing anyone at all, be it on loan or otherwise, a way to build a squad?

blastman

'"What a day for West Ham United,' said an excited Alan Pardew after swooping for two of the most sought-after talents in the game. 'We've just become a feeder club.'

Actually, he didn't say the last bit because not many managers would be peering too closely at such a gift horse, although the club's media spokesman did rather give the game away. 'There is no way West Ham would act as a feeder club for others,' Phil Hall said. 'Of course, if we were offered major fees for the players we would have to consider it - as we would with anyone else."'

More here

blastman

And more from James Lawton:

"They call it a transfer window but whatever happened to the guy with the ladder and a bucket of water? He appears to have been replaced by the spokesman of West Ham United who far from offering any insights into two of the most extraordinary signings in the history of English football suggested, straight-faced, that the acquisition of Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano was pretty much routine business.

It was not of course. It was as opaque as it was sensational. It was another stage in the sense that the average football fan can no longer hope for anything more than fleeting pleasures and a fraction of the truth at any one time.

The spokesman said: "These are exciting signings for us but of course if we were offered major fees for the players at a later date, we would have to consider it... as we would with other players."

How much later? The no-brainer consensus is just one season but then why would any supporter complain at even such brief exposure to such dazzling young talent? Because it changes utterly the nature of the football club. As one long-time season ticket-holder said yesterday: "Ere, how do you sing 'Forever Blowing Bubbles' in Spanish?"

Such problems have been around long enough, no doubt, and some years ago they were officially installed when the then Chelsea manager, Gianluca Vialli, failed to pick a single native player in a match against Southampton. But then West Ham were not Chelsea. They might embrace passing exotica like Paolo di Canio, but there was always going to be another local hero, another centrepiece for local passion; until yesterday it was an article of faith as you filed by the statues of Bobby Moore, Geoff Hurst and Martin Peters outside the Boleyn Ground.

Yet hard though it is to say, the truth is that if the alarm bells ringing over the background to the signings of Tevez and Mascherano, and an accompanying takeover move, were entirely valid, they were also somehow quaint - almost as if the Grand Admiral of the Spanish Armada was already sitting down for dinner in Greenwich just as the warning beacons were being lit.

Of course it is disturbing that the club which once provided a substantial base for an England World Cup victory now takes the role of a provincial theatre, testing the Tevez-Mascherano show for a run in the West End or somewhere in Europe. But then after registering concern over another huge dent in the old edifice of the game we used to know, where do we go?

Surely not to chest-beating demands for legislation which would return a degree of independence and competitive integrity to the great clubs of our national game? The time for that is long gone. Did the Premiership do anything, in practical terms, more than wave through the arrival of Roman Abramovich at Chelsea three years ago? How many hours was he required to spend explaining the nature of his fortune, his antecedents and his plans for his new possession when he became the tsar of Stamford Bridge?

Where was the help for the rebelling fans of Manchester United when an American businessman, Malcolm Glazer, borrowed vast amounts of money to take over Old Trafford last year? There wasn't any because there couldn't be. The club and its operating rules had changed, utterly, and Martin Edwards, the former chief shareholder, had walked away with his profits, as had Sir John "Mr Newcastle" Hall at St James' Park and Sir Alan Sugar at White Hart Lane.

Who can blame West Ham for grabbing at the sweetheart deal offered by football speculator Kia Joorabchian, whose hopes of taking over at Upton Park entered the stage of preliminary negotiations yesterday? The West Ham manager, Alan Pardew, gets the chance to widen his horizons, at least for a season, with the talent of a virtuoso striker who has been likened to Diego Maradona and a young midfielder who for many produced the most complete body of work in the recent World Cup, and when the players are inevitably sold on, the club will receive a share, albeit a minor one, of a staggering profit.

It means that West Ham have received a windfall and in the prevailing values of today's game they would have been mad to step over it. However, they should immediately gag that spokesman who launched an attack on the intelligence of the club's fans. He was saying that everything is as it was; the bubbles can still be blown into the air, the dreams can go on as ever before, and that Tevez and Mascherano represent nothing more than inspired work in the transfer market.

moved an age ahead of a Tom Finney or Johnny Haynes, sublime players who were reminded by the directors of Preston North End and Fulham respectively that they were club property, body and soul, in one respect the South American prodigies are in the same place. After the World Cup their destination seemed to be one of the peaks of the game. Instead they are ordered to a season in the foothills with the admirable but still relatively modest Hammers.

That might change under the weight of major investment, and Alan Pardew's impressive team-building, but some certainties have flown away from West Ham. The idea of continuity is one of them, and so is the old idea of identifying strongly with your heroes. At a time when such as Ashley Cole, Jose Antonio Reyes and William Gallas finally got their way, the arrival of Tevez and Mascherano in the East End was both startling and exciting. But then whatever they do for West Ham, it will be impossible to forget they are merely passing through. They are stars on a fixed schedule, which at their moments of greatest success will surely bring the sharpest of sadness. West Ham, after all, is one place on the football planet where bubbles are supposed to burst only in their own good time."

The Rooster

james lawton wrote:

But then whatever they do for West Ham, it will be impossible to forget they are merely passing through.

No different than every other decent player the Hammers have had over the last 20 years, e.g. Lampard, Ferdinand, Cole, Carrick, Defoe etc.

I can't understand any argument that having these two lads for a year is a bad thing compared to not having them (and someone else getting them instead).

sprinkles

Totally agree. I can't see a problem in what West Ham are doing, even if I don't agree in what MSI are doing.

As for United any injury to either Scholes, Giggs, Saha, Rooney or Ronaldo will be a major problem. We simply can't afford to lose any one of those players if we are serious about challenging this term. That is why the lack of activity in the transfer window was absurd. Damn it even Liam Miller would have been a god option for backup.

Nalz

sprinkles wrote:

Damn it even Liam Miller would have been a god option for backup.

Sure as PHB will tell ya we've got Jones, we'll be fine

wheres me jumpa

Trilla wrote:

Sure as PHB will tell ya we've got Jones, we'll be fine

Yeah we do have Jones but when are going to get to see him. If were short a midfielder this year something tells me Fergie will stick Rio in there again.

yop

What do ye think about Diego Tristan, he is on a free, 30 years young, a decent striker, would he not be working getting as a backup at least.

herbieflowers

I honestly think the midfield is a bit more of a concern at the moment tbh yop. With Solskjaer (scored for Norway v Hungary), Saha, Rooney and Smith (on return from injury) we should be ok until the right deal comes up for a top quality striker

SteM

If anyone's interested in going to the United v Celtic match next Wednesday then Abbey Travel are running a coach trip, ferry over and 1 nights stay. Leave Wednesday morning, back Thursday afternoon.

http://www.abbeytravel.ie/view_event.php?event_id=46

€179 + €50 match ticket.

Sizzler

Anybody been over to OT yet this season or thinking of going?

Just wondering what the general availability for tickets is like without being financially violated by the travel agents

sprinkles

Sizzler wrote:

Anybody been over to OT yet this season or thinking of going?

Just wondering what the general availability for tickets is like without being financially violated by the travel agents

went o the carling cup match against blckburn, tickets were £30 I think, can't really remember and got a flight over for about €120 return. Stayed in Travelodge. Cheap enough.

Sizzler

sprinkles wrote:

went o the carling cup match against blckburn, tickets were £30 I think, can't really remember and got a flight over for about €120 return. Stayed in Travelodge. Cheap enough.

Yeah but this season....just wanted to know if the extra seating was making it easier to get tickets..

SteM

Sizzler wrote:

Yeah but this season....just wanted to know if the extra seating was making it easier to get tickets..

Haven't been over yet but I'd imagine that the big matches (Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Spurs maybe etc) will sell out but you should be able to get tickets for the other games easily enough.


From Rednews today:

Saturday sell out?
Thursday, September 7, 2006

from PA

Manchester United are on the brink of putting up the `sold out' signs for the first time since the Old Trafford club completed their #43million stadium expansion this summer. The Red Devils have confirmed all seats available on general sale have been sold for this week's mouth-watering triple bill featuring Premiership visits from Tottenham and Arsenal, split by a Champions League clash with Celtic. Although some executive seats still remain available, it seems certain Saturday's encounter with Spurs will see United play in front of the biggest attendance ever to see them play at Old Trafford, which in turn will become a new Premiership record. With the October 1 encounter with Newcastle also virtually certain to attract a capacity crowd, it justifies the decision of the Glazer family to continue with the project, which was launched before they seized control of the club in controversial circumstances last year.'

sprinkles

Sizzler wrote:

Yeah but this season....just wanted to know if the extra seating was making it easier to get tickets..

That was after the 1st phase of the extension was opened. Tickets were plentiful near the end of the season so I'd imagine for the lesser teams it would be easy enough to get tickets.

Sizzler

sprinkles wrote:

That was after the 1st phase of the extension was opened. Tickets were plentiful near the end of the season so I'd imagine for the lesser teams it would be easy enough to get tickets.

HFD

homerjay2005

Sizzler wrote:

Anybody been over to OT yet this season or thinking of going?

Just wondering what the general availability for tickets is like without being financially violated by the travel agents

heading over to the celtic match wednesday myself and got tickets too for the arsenal game on sunday, got them from one united yesterday, sign up and give it a go.

Nalz

whats the outcome for today?

going for a 2-1 United.

Smith may make bench

sofireland

didn't think smith or heinze were in the squad for today

Nalz

sorry, my mistake. squad update below

ManUtd.com wrote:

Gary Neville returns to the United squad for Tottenham’s visit on Saturday.

The Reds skipper has been out of action since tweaking a calf injury against Fulham on August 20, but is now available again for selection.

Unfortunately, Spurs’ visit comes too soon for three of Neville’s colleagues.

Alan Smith had hoped to play a part after completing 90 minutes for the Reserves on Tuesday, but Sir Alex Ferguson quashed talk of an early comeback.

"He is not ready," he said at his weekly press conference. "It is Alan’s enthusiasm that he says 'if the manger picks me he will play' of course he would.

"He would play with his leg broke in two that is the type of character we are talking about.

“Alan has a tremendous attitude. He's chipped away, he's handled the whole thing very well but he's not ready for tomorrow.”

Gabriel Heinze and Nemanja Vidic also miss out, although both players trained on Friday and should be in contention for a senior return soon.

"Vidic goes for a new plaster on Monday,” said Sir Alex. “Heinze started training today. His rehabilitation is complete, his leg is back to normal and it's a delight to see him.

kinaldo

Kinda Manchester related... Beckham's just finished assisting RVN to a hatrick for Madrid in a 4-1 away win at Levante. NOt sure how many assists and RVN also missed a penalty.

Attractive Nun

RVN wasn't the same when Beckham left United. The pair worked excellently together, and it's good to see the partnership back again.

sofireland

Not if we come across them in the CL it won't!

Was happy for RVN to get off the mark, and he did it wth style!

Nalz

tomorrow nights prediction?

3-1 to United I'd say...Rooney, Saha and Carrick to open his account :rolleyes:

Miller consolation.

off to paddypowers I go!

Necronomicon

Even with the Arsenal game on sunday I hope Fergie doesn't ring the changes too much. A proper team and I think we'll be too strong for them.
Although, Celtic do have two new faces with some European pedegree in Graveson and Jan Vennegor of Hesslink.
I'm going for a (tight) United win.

Sizzler

Celtic are 10/1 to win :eek:

Id say celtic might score but Utd should be well able to score more.
It was truly embarassing (for celtic!) how easy Utd's 2nd string beat them in pre-season. Of course it was a friendly and Celtic didnt have Graveson or the dutch lad up front but still...

3-1 to Utd.....which is also 3-1

Rooney to score at anytime during the game 10/11 :mad:

sofireland

Jarosik has good pedigree as well.
This won't be a walk in the park, both teams will be up for it make no mistake.
if we played fast paced football we will beat them, no problem.

With Rooney and Scholes back as well we're stronger!

AthAnRi

I'd go for a hard fought 2:0 Win.

Saha and Brown:eek:

the biggest name in Football will cause us problems though.

Necronomicon

sofireland wrote:

Jarosik has good pedigree as well.
This won't be a walk in the park, both teams will be up for it make no mistake.
if we played fast paced football we will beat them, no problem.

With Rooney and Scholes back as well we're stronger!

Forgot about Jarosik. You're right, bit of experience with Moscow(?) but iirc never played in Europe for Chelsea because he was cup-tied. Still, good player. One of few at Birmingham last season.
Looking forward to tonight!

gracehopper

With Rooney and scholes back i think United will be too strong. Celtic will battle but i reckon United will be eager to get over last years disappointment and will win 2 or 3 nil.
Rooney to run-a-muck!

eirebhoy

Sizzler wrote:

It was truly embarassing (for celtic!) how easy Utd's 2nd string beat them in pre-season. Of course it was a friendly and Celtic didnt have Graveson or the dutch lad up front but still...

It's truly embarassing how many times this is mentioned by United fans...

Wilson, McManus, Balde, Naylor, Jarosik, Gravesen, Nakamura, Maloney, Venegoor... Every one of those players are 1st teamers, where were day when United beat Celtic? 3 of the defence that started the match are no longer with Celtic (the right back was actually a midfielder). Alan Thompson has made the bench once this season while Sno is in the reserves. United's youths beat a Celtic 2nd string that day and there's nothing to be taken from it.

Balde and Maloney are injured still though. Jarosik won't start, he hasn't started the last couple of games. McGeady-Gravesen-Lennon-Nakamura will be the midfield. Miller will most likely replace Zurawski up front because of his work rate. It's a pity Nakamura isn't in the best of form atm because he's a joy to watch as his best.

United to win, it could be anything from 1-0 to 3-2 to 5-0 to so I won't predict the score.

AthAnRi

eirebhoy wrote:

It's truly embarassing how many times this is mentioned by United fans...

Wilson, McManus, Balde, Naylor, Jarosik, Gravesen, Nakamura, Maloney, Venegoor... Every one of those players are 1st teamers, where were day when United beat Celtic? 3 of the defence that started the match are no longer with Celtic (the right back was actually a midfielder). Alan Thompson has made the bench once this season while Sno is in the reserves. United's youths beat a Celtic 2nd string that day and there's nothing to be taken from it.

Balde and Maloney are injured still though. Jarosik won't start, he hasn't started the last couple of games. McGeady-Gravesen-Lennon-Nakamura will be the midfield. Miller will most likely replace Zurawski up front because of his work rate. It's a pity Nakamura isn't in the best of form atm because he's a joy to watch as his best.

United to win, it could be anything from 1-0 to 3-2 to 5-0 to so I won't predict the score.

Agreed. A meaningless pre season friendly. Utd once lost 5:0 to Newcastle and still won the league. They also beat Ipswich 9:0 one season after actually losing the reverse fixture earlier in the season. Ended up costing them league in a way.

I'll be surprised if it's anything like the pre-season result TBH.

Nalz

eirebhoy wrote:

.... Miller will most likely replace Zurawski up front because of his work rate.

Is Zurawski injured, or are you saying he'll be dropped? If he plays like he plays for Scotland and played for Wolves, We (UTd) could be in trouble!

eirebhoy

Trilla wrote:

Is Zurawski injured, or are you saying he'll be dropped? If he plays like he plays for Scotland and played for Wolves, We (UTd) could be in trouble!

Zurawski has scored 3 this season I think but he's done very little else. He doesn't seem to be giving his all and can be anonymous throughout games. Miller hasn't scored but he must have set up 4 or 5 goals this season and just never stops running. He came on to set up Venegoor's goal on Saturday and I'd fancy him to start tonight because of his work rate alone.

Necronomicon

Scholes doubtful with a dead leg. Even if he makes it, I doubt we'll see him with Arsenal visiting on sunday.

eirebhoy

Necromomicon wrote:

Scholes doubtful with a dead leg. Even if he makes it, I doubt we'll see him with Arsenal visiting on sunday.

Fergie says he's confident he'll be fit and if he is he'll definitely start. If Scholes doesn't make it who'll most likely replace him? With Park, Carrick and Giggs most likely to start either way it's between O'Shea, Fletcher and Richardson.

Necronomicon

Fletcher or O' Shea I'd reckon. Richardson started ahead of Solskjaer on saturday, but Rooney is back in the picture now so Giggs will be back in midfield.

Good to hear that he'll start if he's fit though.