Manchester United Transfer Rumours/Discussion 2006 :)

sprinkles

I agree. I think Ruud is worth more than 8Mil and I think Shev is worth a lot less than 35 mil.

evad_lhorg

nah shevchenko is a lot more skilled. ruud just made a career of bein in the right place at the right time on the six yard box. not that i didnt enjoy it but shev is worth way more. well maybe two years ago. theyre mad to pay that much at this stage of his career.

MrPillowTalk

Why does everyone underestimate Ruud so much, do you think its easy to be in the right place all the time and to score an incredible ammount of goals.

sprinkles

evad_lhorg wrote:

nah shevchenko is a lot more skilled. ruud just made a career of bein in the right place at the right time on the six yard box. not that i didnt enjoy it but shev is worth way more. well maybe two years ago. theyre mad to pay that much at this stage of his career.

and is that not what you should be looking for from a striker? Goals is all that counts and he scores them. I'd like to see a comparison of his goal tallies against Shevs domestically and in europe over the last 5 seasons. In fact, I'm off to look that up now.

sprinkles

Ruud
Ruud - ESPN

Shevchenko - ESPN


Ruud

Man utd career:

Using BBC stats:

Apps:207
Goals:149
Goals per game:0.69

Using the ESPN stats: (from 2001)

Apps:189
Goals:160
Goals per game:0.72

Shevchenko

Ac Milan Career

Using the ESPN stats: (from 2001)

Apps:176
Goals:108
Goals Per Game:0.62



Personally I can't see the £25mil difference in price.....

Rikand

^^ well you have to take into account the circumstances each were in aswell...its a well known fact that alot of italian teams are steup around extremely solid defenses where as english teams would perhaps be more open and easier to score against ...now while im not knocking valuations, i agree Rudd should be valued at much more than 8 million and i would consider it pure insanity for Man U to sell a player of his quality for only 8 million... i think goals per game tallies can be a bit skewed when taking into consideration the teams each player has to face more regularly

sprinkles

I agree that the goal tallies would not only be influenced by the teams they play against but also the setup of the team itself - ie Chelsea are not setup so their strikers will score bagfuls of goals. They rely on the midfiled to chip in and the strikers setup as much as they score, whereas arsenal are all about the strikers for the majority.

However I think that milan and Man U are similar in setup and I really don't think there is the gulf in class that the money suggests.

Hobart

The difference is this. Fergie wants rid of RVN, AC would like to hang on to Shev.

gracehopper

Keane was Uniteds biggest earner and Ruud is probably now the biggest earner. I wonder will it be long before Rio gets the cold shoulder.

On another note. I think its important that United bring in an english or premiership midfield player this summer. Diarra looks really strong but essien looked great as well. We need someone whose proven in the premiership.

LostinBlanch

Well two things. First I don´t think Italian football is any great shakes at the moment. AC losing to an average Liverpool team :rolleyes: and Juve giving up against an up to then unproven Arsenal side prove that much to me. This is before all the scandals going on in the game there. I would like to see Sheva spend a season in the PL and then make my mind up. The difference in valuation is too much. RVN has lost some pace but if he is in a team which supplies him with the ball into the box there is no one in the world going to get you more goals consistently.

As for the midfield, I´d like a Reo Coker please, no ice.

gracehopper

United are looking at Ribery but where's our new centre midfielders?

I've also heard a rumour about Kim Nam ll of south Korea. I remember thinking he was good in the WC2002 but seriously doubt he'd be the man to fix our problems

zAbbo

LostinBlanch wrote:

Well two things. First I don´t think Italian football is any great shakes at the moment. AC losing to an average Liverpool team :rolleyes: and Juve giving up against an up to then unproven Arsenal side prove that much to me.

An unproven unbeaten in europe side, ok ?

How much Italian football do you watch ?

eirebhoy

It looks like Quinten Fortune is joining Celtic. I can't say he's ever stuck out when I seen him at Man U but most Celtic fans seem happy with him for free. What's his best position and how good is he?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/5024896.stm

btw - It was a Keane recommendation and Keane made the phone call to Fortune. That's good enough for me but I just want to know what United fans think of him.

Devious

eirebhoy wrote:

It looks like Quinten Fortune is joining Celtic. I can't say he's ever stuck out when I seen him at Man U but most Celtic fans seem happy with him for free. What's his best position and how good is he?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/5024896.stm

btw - It was a Keane recommendation and Keane made the phone call to Fortune. That's good enough for me but I just want to know what United fans think of him.

He was a reasonably competent backup utility player, suffered a bit with injuries. Can't ever remember him playing a blinder in any match for United, but i'v seen far, far worse at Old Trafford in the last few years. I think he'l do well at Celtic.

Revelation Joe

LostinBlanch wrote:

As for the midfield, I´d like a Reo Coker please, no ice.

Hands off !:D
Anyway, he's got a bad back...no, honestly, he has. You wouldn't want him...too much trouble...injury-prone...only gonna get worse:D

Have I put you off yet?

Del

PHB

He played a blinder in the first match against AC Milan last year.

SteM

eirebhoy wrote:

It looks like Quinten Fortune is joining Celtic. I can't say he's ever stuck out when I seen him at Man U but most Celtic fans seem happy with him for free. What's his best position and how good is he?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/5024896.stm

btw - It was a Keane recommendation and Keane made the phone call to Fortune. That's good enough for me but I just want to know what United fans think of him.

He's played for United on the left hand side of midfield and filled in at left back. He's a good utility player and shows a lot of aggression - I'm not surprised that Keane recommended him to be honest.

LegacyUser

PHB wrote:

He played a blinder in the first match against AC Milan last year.

Exactly!

shepthedog

Always thought Fortune was a good player, he always did his best and ran his heart out.. Surprised he's leaving really.. He has been out with injuries but expected him to feature next yr.. He would have gotten games aswell..

On a seperate note, Mikel Obi gone to Chekski for 12 million... So looks like fergie has an extra 12 mil in summer kitty..Good news

PHB

Mikel - 12 million
Ruud - 15-20 Million
Transfer Kitty - 30 million

That's 57 million to spend now apparently, this could get interesting.

PHB

I think after the Obi Mikel disappointment, I'd be happy with

Diarra or Cambiasso(preferably) or Gattuso or Mascherano

and

Reo-Coker(preferably) or Carrick

and

Ruud staying

and(post Mikel)

Ribery

The most important thing

Giving Jones and Rossi a chance next year

That'd be a perfect summer for me, and it's not looking too unrealistic.

andrewie

PHB wrote:

Mikel - 12 million
Ruud - 15-20 Million
Transfer Kitty - 30 million

That's 57 million to spend now apparently, this could get interesting.

Chelsea aren't giving the 12 million upfront. 6 now and 6 next year.

SteM

andrewie wrote:

Chelsea aren't giving the 12 million upfront. 6 now and 6 next year.

Yeah but as long as the money is going towards transfers - this hasn't been clarified yet - then they can spend this summer knowing the 6m will be coming in next summer.

LostinBlanch

andrewie wrote:

Chelsea aren't giving the 12 million upfront. 6 now and 6 next year.

Yes it's hush money. United don't get the 2nd installment unless they keep quiet about Chelsea's role in the stinking affair.

Also PHB I admire your optomism but think it's misplaced. We'll probably get Scholes back "It's like signing a new player", and maybe Duscher. Jones to be kept out of the team in favour of Fletcher and O'Shea and Rossi to spend lots of time on the bench until we need someone to come on as rightback.

Bah humbug

besty

PHB wrote:

I think after the Obi Mikel disappointment, I'd be happy with

Diarra or Cambiasso(preferably) or Gattuso or Mascherano

and

Reo-Coker(preferably) or Carrick

and

Ruud staying

and(post Mikel)

Ribery

The most important thing

Giving Jones and Rossi a chance next year

That'd be a perfect summer for me, and it's not looking too unrealistic.

Yea, I'd agree with that. Would be good course of business but I'm not sure on Ribery. Perhaps a look at the Juve squad if they get relegated too? Emerson?

sprinkles

PHB wrote:

Mikel - 12 million
Ruud - 15-20 Million
Transfer Kitty - 30 million

That's 57 million to spend now apparently, this could get interesting.

Doesn't look like we'll get that much for RVN even though I think he's worth it.

You're looking at

RVN: 8 - 10 mil
Mikel: 6 mil now

thats around 15 mil coming in from transfers, we'd need to replace a striker which will take the majority of that money and then we need a new midfield. It'll be a struggle.

PHB

Doesn't look like we'll get that much for RVN even though I think he's worth it.

What are you basing this on?
Considering just last week United said they weren't going to be letting him go on the cheap, and after the world cup, I think he'll easily go for 15 million.

If Ruud was for sale for 8 million, every CL club would bid for him. The price would push up and up.

BFassassin

the mail on sunday has eidur gudjohnsen linked to united for 8mill.
he is a good player but i dont think chelsea will let him go to united

dcarroll

does anyone think utd need a dead ball specialist (Riquelme maybe), look at the goals some times (Chelsea, Bolton) get from corners, but since Beckham left do utd even have someone that can kick a dead ball straight?

PHB

David Jones strikes a mean free kick, and Ronaldo is getting better and better imo.

For corners, we used to never ever ever score when Beckham was taking corners, and it was a source of much confusion for all at United.

sprinkles

Rooney's not too bad at free kicks - better than I am anyway

Stky10

PHB wrote:

What are you basing this on?
Considering just last week United said they weren't going to be letting him go on the cheap, and after the world cup, I think he'll easily go for 15 million.

If Ruud was for sale for 8 million, every CL club would bid for him. The price would push up and up.

Other clubs aren't fools. There's been a complete falling out between AF & RVN and going by past history of AF, the possibility of a reconciliation is thin in the extreme. So the options are that they can keep him playing and training with the reserves while he loses value or they can sell him now. So the fact that they need to sell him now means its a buyers market, and they'll get a lot less for him than they would if they didn't need/want to sell him.

So yes he has a very good record, but he's 29 and has had some serious injuries, and to be frank, doesn't look as good as he was lets say 3 years ago as a result. At 29, he's not going to get any better and his best days look behind him. Now he could have a good world cup which would increase his value, or he could have a bad world cup which would decrease his value further.

So lets say an agent for a major club privately agrees a deal for wages/signing on fee with RVN and his agent (not legal by the laws of FIFA/UEFA but common enough practice). They can then put in a bid for lets say 10m. If any higher offer comes in and gets accepted RVN can refuse to join them. MU are then left with the option of agreeing to the 10m offer or keeping an unhappy diminishing asset whose unhappiness could effect other members of the squad.

From that fee, as RVN hasn't actually put in a transfer request (and may not need to), he would be due a cut of the transfer fee and to have the rest of his contract paid off. He could offer though not to take this up so as to allow the transfer to go through more easily. So all in all, by the time everything is sorted and everyone paid off, I doubt they'll get more than 10m for him unless he has a great world cup.

PHB

First off, he will have a great world cup.

Second, you're whole logic is based on the following statement:

So the options are that they can keep him playing and training with the reserves while he loses value or they can sell him now.

How about these two options?

A. Sell him for a price they accept
B. Keep him and play in from the bench

Stky10

PHB wrote:

First off, he will have a great world cup.

Thats a mighty powerful crystal ball you've got there. Does it do lotto numbers as well by any chance??

PHB wrote:

How about these two options?

A. Sell him for a price they accept
B. Keep him and play in from the bench

Well selling him for a price they accept is part of the hypothesis I put forward but they may not be able to accept the highest offer also for the reasoning I put forward. Remember the transfer of Scott Parker from Chelsea to Newcastle last summer, well Wigan made a higher offer, but he wanted to go to the Barcodes, and so it happened.

As for (B) if as has been reported/quoted AF thinks he's having a negative influence on the first team players, he's hardly likely (although I will admit its possible) that he'll keep him within the first team squad, especially now that he's come out in such a public way to castigate him.

PHB

Why?
Cause Fergie isn't the type of manager who'd do that? Yeh, Fergies the type of guy who'd let that get to him.

Well selling him for a price they accept is part of the hypothesis I put forward but they may not be able to accept the highest offer also for the reasoning I put forward.

That does happen, but if Fergie says to Ruud, you have the choice of sitting on the bench or going to the club we choose, whatcha think will happen?

United don't need the money, and they can live with a player like Ruud not playing to his best.

Chelsea can never ever be used in an example in relation to football fees, cause if they did, Ruud would be going for 30 million euro, and even if it was another club, like say a smaller club, they have to sell a top player in order to replace him, as they can't afford to not cash in on their assests, United can.

Stky10

PHB wrote:

Why?
Cause Fergie isn't the type of manager who'd do that? Yeh, Fergies the type of guy who'd let that get to him.

Well if you look at history, in the past players who have fallen out with him have been [almost] immediately sold/let-go, eg Stam, Keane, Ince. In most of those cases, he wasn't even as publically vocally critical of a person as he was with RVN.

That does happen, but if Fergie says to Ruud, you have the choice of sitting on the bench or going to the club we choose, whatcha think will happen?

United don't need the money, and they can live with a player like Ruud not playing to his best.

Well maybe it will happen that way, and maybe it won't. Odds are though that AF is more of a realist than that, especially as if he doesn't win something major next year his job is likely on the line. Back in the days when they were winning doubles/trebles/three-in-a-rows it was more likely to happen, now I'd be much more doubtful. If he's going to beat Chelsea next year he'll need all his players playing to their best, and without disruption. And while they don't need the money despite being 500-600m in debt, I'm sure they'd prefer a replacement for him, rather than having cameras zooming in to his extra long face sitting on the bench every game next season. Of course, they're less likely to accept a bid of 10m from Chelsea or any UK team than they are of AC Milan for instance, but other than that I don't think they'll really care. With the fee and the wages he'd be on, there's only going to be a certain few clubs that can afford him, and they're all pretty major teams. Its not like the old days when Busby tried to hide castoffs, by selling the likes of Johnny Giles to leeds who were then in the old Div2 when there were Div1 clubs interested so that they were less likely to come back to haunt him.

Chelsea can never ever be used in an example in relation to football fees, cause if they did, Ruud would be going for 30 million euro, and even if it was another club, like say a smaller club, they have to sell a top player in order to replace him, as they can't afford to not cash in on their assests, United can.

Well accepted, but it was the most obvious example I could think of offhand, since Jewell had made such an issue out of it last summer. I'm sure if I dedicated my mind to it I could think up of more examples. Andy Johnson for instance, from what we've been led to believe, the offer from Everton gives less up front to Palace than the offers of Bolton or Portsmouth but since he'd made clear his preference for them over the other offers, it was accepted.
Dijbril Cisse is another, Liverpool apparently paid less for him (but still way over the odds) than other clubs were offering, but because Houllier was also french, and had taken such an interest in him for so long thats where he ended up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/3554989.stm

PHB

Well if you look at history, in the past players who have fallen out with him have been [almost] immediately sold/let-go, eg Stam, Keane, Ince.

Indeed, you forgot Beckham aswell.

Ince - 8 million
Stam - 16.5 million
Keane - Free (as he's like 34)
Beckham - 30 million
Cole - 8 million

All of these players had had the exact same situation as Ruud, in one case, because of Ruud, and they all went for their appropriate transfer fees.

And while they don't need the money despite being 500-600m in debt, I'm sure they'd prefer a replacement for him, rather than having cameras zooming in to his extra long face sitting on the bench every game next season.

I'm sure they would. But I don't even think Ruud is replacable for 20 million, you think he's replacable for 8 million?

8 million pounds = average replacment
Ruud = Ruud

As for Ruud organising a deal, well that could happen, but it won't have ahuge effect. If they have a deal of 8 million from AC Milan, but say 15 million from Inter, you think United are gona cave in, or you think they are gona issue an ultimatem to him?
Reserves or move to Inter.
Ruud is a smart boy, and he will pick Inter.

The Muppet

The rumour around OT is that there are moves a foot to sort out the rift between Ruud and Fergie and he will be playing for United next season if they do not recieve a bid of Circa £20 million.

This is possibly an attempt to up his price but on the other hand it could be true.

Stky10

PHB wrote:

Ince - 8 million
Stam - 16.5 million
Keane - Free (as he's like 34)
Beckham - 30 million
Cole - 8 million

All of these players had had the exact same situation as Ruud, in one case, because of Ruud, and they all went for their appropriate transfer fees.

Well as for Ince, as far as I remember, their falling out (and the big time charlie quote) only became apparent after he'd left (http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Paul_Ince). There was huge suprise as I remember at the time that he'd been sold. The same with Stam, I haven't read AF's autobiography (and at this stage I'm hardly likely to either) but I don't think he ever publically critisied him publically before the transfer was arranged. Again, as I remember it was a shock at the time that he'd been sold. As for Beckham the fee was lower than that (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/2998868.stm) and would be put down to the his unique marketing ability (in Asia specifically where Real Madrid were trying to break into) meaning that they made most of that back in sales of replica strips etc. As proof of this is the famous quote that they didn't go for Ronaldinho that summer as he was too ugly (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,670660,00.html?promoid=rss_world). As for Cole, I don't recall there being talk of a falling out, more that he wasn't a regular in the first team because of the purchase of RVN and being the age he was he needed first team football and they thought the offer was too good to refuse for a player his age not in the first team. (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/profile?id=8882&cc=5739).

PHB wrote:

I'm sure they would. But I don't even think Ruud is replacable for 20 million, you think he's replacable for 8 million?

8 million pounds = average replacment
Ruud = Ruud

I never said he was replaceable like for like for 8 million. I don't think that. I'd imagine though that they'd prefer a happy employee to an unhappy one, and they'll try to get what they can for him, and possibly put more with it to get his replacement who'll be younger and fitter and with potential to become the next Ruud. Of course, they could pull a rabbit out of the hat, and get a replacement for half nothing (like the case of Solksjaer).

As for Ruud organising a deal, well that could happen, but it won't have ahuge effect. If they have a deal of 8 million from AC Milan, but say 15 million from Inter, you think United are gona cave in, or you think they are gona issue an ultimatem to him?
Reserves or move to Inter.
Ruud is a smart boy, and he will pick Inter.

Again, it could happen, and if there was a huge differential in offers it would be more likely to happen, but I think its more likely he'll go for 10-12, and I don't think anyone is going to offer much more than that for a player past his best, but then there are people in football with way more money than sense, so god only knows its possible, and only time will tell. As well, a lot of teams talk to a players agent before they talk to the club, and if the agent says that he's definetly off to Milan, I don't think Inter would bid for him other than to possibly up the price Milan would have to pay.

BFassassin

The Muppet wrote:

The rumour around OT is that there are moves a foot to sort out the rift between Ruud and Fergie and he will be playing for United next season if they do not recieve a bid of Circa £20 million.

This is possibly an attempt to up his price but on the other hand it could be true.

i hope its true i dont want to see ruud going. he has said before that it hurts him not to have played in the last match of the season and being banned from keanes testemonial. im sure if he could sort things out he would like to finish his career at OT

Jimi-Spandex

Figured I may as well update this thread.

The Independent wrote:

Spurs braced for a £7m United offer for Carrick
By Sam Wallace
Published: 09 June 2006

Tottenham Hotspur are steeling themselves for a bid from Manchester United for the England midfielder Michael Carrick after the Old Trafford club made an initial enquiry about the player's availability this week. A fee in the region of £7m should be enough to secure a transfer and already Tottenham are on the lookout for a replacement for him.

Sir Alex Ferguson's interest in Carrick is long-standing and he toyed with the idea of a bid for the player, 25 next month, in the January transfer window but decided to wait until the summer to make his move. Carrick has two years remaining on his contract and this summer would expect a new deal that would stretch Tottenham's pay structure to breaking point.

Carrick and his agent, David Giess, have been told that talks will be opened with Tottenham after the World Cup finals, although a salary of £50,000 a week upwards would not be sanctioned by White Hart Lane. Instead they are prepared to let him go for more than twice the £2.75m they paid West Ham for him in August 2004.

Carrick is finally showing that his talent belongs on the international stage. He made a stuttering start against Belarus in Reading last month but impressed when he came on for 20 minutes against Jamaica.

The Tottenham coach, Martin Jol, is a fan of Carrick, although he has long felt the player's progress this season could take him out of the hands of Spurs. There are many at the club who say it is time to give Tom Huddlestone, the 20-year-old who was signed from Derby County last year, chance in midfield.

With Edgar Davids likely to leave this summer, and Carrick possibly on his way too, the way should open up for Huddlestone. Spurs will also look to the highly regarded Ivory Coast midfielder Didier Zokora, 25, who plays for St-Etienne and has been considered by, among others, United.

Tottenham have strong links with St-Etienne through their sporting director, Damien Comolli, and would hope to have the first refusal on Zokora.

In the mean time, United will not give up their interest in the Lyon midfielder Mahamadou Diarra despite a price of around £14m, which they consider too high. There remains the distinct prospect that they will buy both Carrick and Diarra to revitalise the centre of their midfield.

Jol has promised further new signings as Spurs unveiled the capture of the France Under-18 defender Dorian Dervitte from Lille. The move will be completed at the start of next month and Dervitte will join the club's development squad at the start of the season.

At 7 million it would be a great signing. Especially if we get Diarra as well, saw him linked at 14 million as well today.

So what do people reckon? Would you be happy with just Carrick or do you think we need some one else?

astrofool

They really need a couple of central midfielders, even if it was to rotate a few players around, and be able to keep things fresh. Ideally Ribery/Diarra would also be on their way, and possibly Ruud replacement if he goes.

Ruskie4Rent

Carrick and riquelme would keep me quiet for the mean time.

herbieflowers

Has anyone seen Ribery play? Or Diarra for that matter?

gracehopper

I honestly dont think riquelme could mix in the premier league. I like Carrick as a player but i'd like someone with a bit more aggression in there also. Diarra is very strong and aggressive and i've always said Tim Cahill would do well at United with his late runs from midfield.
It should be interesting in the world cup. We'll see a lot of decent midfielders that we dont get the chance to see playing regularly

Ribery: He tore the england U-21's apart a few months back. I remember being very impressed watching him as he looked looked a cut above the rest of the players but i will admit he dives and whinges alot and will end up being one of them players that everyone loves to hate like Robben.

Necronomicon

herbieflowers wrote:

Has anyone seen Ribery play? Or Diarra for that matter?

Ribery was excellent in the French U21's last year. I've seen a lot of Diarra, in this season's CL and last. I've always liked him. I said last summer that I'd be happy if the interest in Essien was a smoke-screen for taking Diarra.

PHB

Carrick is apparently a done deal, but at a much higher price than quoted.

Disappointed if he goes with Carrick over Reo-Coker but alas

That said, Gill is currently in Florida, so this is confusing news

---

Manchester United coach Rene Meulensteen is set to be unveiled as the new Brondby boss, according to reports in Scandinavia and Holland.

Sir Alex Ferguson has reportedly given the Danish giants permission to appoint his reserve team manager and youth academy technical advisor to the post.

The Old Trafford coach would replace former manager Michael Laudrup, who resigned at the end of last season to head for pastures new, after four years at the helm.

Brondby finished second in the league behind arch rivals FC Copenhagen last term, and Meulensteen will be expected to better that result next term.

He attracted the interest of the Danes after leading The Red Devils' second string to the treble last season.

With players like The Baby-Faced Assassin Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and hot prospect Gerard Pique in their ranks, the reserves cruised to the FA Premier Reserve League North title, the Manchester Senior Cup and Reserve League Shield.

Terrible news imo, Meulensteen was fantastic and he loved a good attacking 4-4-2, he'll be missed.

Jimi-Spandex

PHB wrote:

Terrible news imo, Meulensteen was fantastic and he loved a good attacking 4-4-2, he'll be missed.

Yeah, losing him and Sbragia in such a short space of time is a kick in the stones.

PHB

Yeh, it was always gona happen though, hopefully they'll come back as Assistant managers or something

Garret

herbieflowers wrote:

Has anyone seen Ribery play? Or Diarra for that matter?

I've seen Diara play. Not that impressed considering the figures that are being suggested.